Unapologetic OWs - a threat?

[TigerCub]

EXCELLENT question! If we could answer that, then maybe we could answer why when one of them leaves the OW club, say when they take a better course of action for them and leave the A, they get bashed like they are some kind of traitor. As if losing one of the Club is a threat to them.

See I just don't think that's accurate. I left the A I was in and NO ONE ever bashed me for it.

I've seen other posters talk about how they left their A's and no one was mean to them either. I just don't see this type of behavior here - maybe on some other site you go to - I just don't see it here..

 

I, on the other hand, am posing a threat to myself in not getting my work done. So I leave the rest of you to it.

haha - I hear that !

go...be productive...

[donnamaybe]

See I just don't think that's accurate. I left the A I was in and NO ONE ever bashed me for it.

I've seen other posters talk about how they left their A's and no one was mean to them either. I just don't see this type of behavior here - maybe on some other site you go to - I just don't see it here..

 

 

haha - I hear that !

go...be productive...

Apparently you missed this just a couple posts back, http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3230947&postcount=226and there are many MANY more. They just haven't posted on this thread.

[donnamaybe]

It's obvious.

And it's an odd thing that someone would feel so for a person who would do whatever they want, including participating in a deep hurt of someone they don't even know, to "get theirs?"

 

I would assume most people would feel that way about that sort of potential damage being done to another person.

[TigerCub]

Apparently you missed this just a couple posts back, http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3230947&postcount=226and there are many MANY more. They just haven't posted on this thread.

 

uh-huh, so if it happened on occasion that means its alright to generalize?

[donnamaybe]

uh-huh, so if it happened on occasion that means its alright to generalize?

I didn't generalize. SOME people, particularly a certain subset of LS posters, do this. IMO, it shouldn't be done. So no one should speak up unless EVERYONE is doing something undesirable?

[TigerCub]

I didn't generalize.

No but you answered a question I posed to Jthorne about her post that seemed to generalize and you brought out your little example as proof. No where in it, did you say that SOME posters and not all UOW do these things.

 

SOME people, particularly a certain subset of LS posters, do this. IMO, it shouldn't be done.

Yeah I agree with that - but that's not how your post initially came across.

 

So no one should speak up unless EVERYONE is doing something undesirable?

No, everyone has their say about whatever the topic, but it would be best when responding not to generalize.

[donnamaybe]

We done now? http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rizzor/beatingadeadhorse.gif

 

It happens, and it happened A LOT in one particular thread. I wish I could find it, but I just don't have time to pore over past threads and pull it out. You may have missed it, but many of us did not.

 

Yes, not EVERY OW who ends her A gets treated thusly. It depends on who happens to read her thread.

[fooled once]

I guess I just don't understand this part:

 

why do you think that people who post something (that you may not agree with - especially with regards to affairs) are doing so just to further their agenda? What is their agenda?

 

Why do they care how many people are in affairs? If they are happy in their situations, then why do they need more recruits or "partners in crime"? That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess that's why I just don't see it that way.

 

Tiger,

 

It is obvious to me (and several others) that some other women come here to gloat, to egg on each other, to stir the pot and to generally belittle others that don't agree that Affairs are the way to go. Some OW believe that they have all the power and they have no problem with hurting innocent people (spouses and children). They take offense if anyone tells a hurting OW to get out, to not waste any more time on a cake eater and to not listen to those who didn't "win" the cheater. They like to scream it that they won the guy, so for those that gave up on the MM after months/years of waiting, obviously didn't love the MM the way they loved their mm.

 

In general, there are many more here who have left affairs than there are who are happy being the mistress. At times, it seems as if those who are pro-affair want to 'recruit' others to be in their category of waiting years and years for a MM to leave his wife. Some have no problem doing that - there are a few who come to mind who have sat and waited over 5+ years and are STILL waiting for the day to come where the MM finally leave the wife - and they will exclaim time and time again that these MM are conflicted, split, honorable, etc.

 

And then there are the new labels these OW come up with to belittle and demean those that disagree with them. At first, it is the "bitter" betrayed spouse, and then when there were former OW who also agreed with ending affairs, one of the OW decided to call those people "reformed" OW, and wanted it as a black mark, a negative against those former OW - as if their views don't matter.

 

Now it seems that another label has been decried - the BBS

 

You would think if these women were so happy in their affair that they wouldn't care what others think NOR would they start making labels for them...but it seems as if the opposite is true. They are what I would call bullies. They want to discredit anyone who isn't in agreement with them.

 

And I agree with jthorne - these types of posts are taking away from other posts from other people with questions or struggling. So I am done with this post and will instead of participating any further in the back and forth crud, I will go see if I can give advise to someone who is struggling.

[Distant78]

but yet I'm not gonna beat someone over the head to win them over to my way of thinking.

 

Okay I'll remember that the next time.

[bentnotbroken]

We done now? http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rizzor/beatingadeadhorse.gif

 

It happens, and it happened A LOT in one particular thread. I wish I could find it, but I just don't have time to pore over past threads and pull it out. You may have missed it, but many of us did not.

 

Yes, not EVERY OW who ends her A gets treated thusly. It depends on who happens to read her thread.

 

 

:lmao: I spilled my wine:lmao:. At least I hadn't taken a sip yet or it would be all over my screen.

[Distant78]

:lmao: I spilled my wine:lmao:. At least I hadn't taken a sip yet or it would be all over my screen.

 

You're always spilling something!

[alexandria35]

I guess I just don't understand this part:

 

why do you think that people who post something (that you may not agree with - especially with regards to affairs) are doing so just to further their agenda? What is their agenda?

 

Why do they care how many people are in affairs? If they are happy in their situations, then why do they need more recruits or "partners in crime"? That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess that's why I just don't see it that way.

 

I don't think people in affairs are looking for more recruits, but...birds of a feather, flock together..alcoholics like the company of other alcoholics, drug users like the company of other drug users, young parents keep company with other young parents, seniors like other seniors, etc..being with our own ilk validates us and makes us feel understood, sometimes in a good way and sometimes in not good ways. Whatever the case may be we don't usually like to lose someone in our circle.

 

I'll take an example from my own life and I know it's a lousy analogy but it's the best I can do right now. I have a nasty habit, I'm a smoker. Yuck! I know. Since I smoke I tend to know and associate with a lot of other smokers cause you know..were the ones all standing outside together, in the freezing cold, puffing our faces off.

 

Occasionally a fellow smoker will anounce that they are quitting or that they have quit, and all the other smokers, myself included will cheer that person on. "Good for you" we'll say, and "don't give up, I know you can do it" I really do like to see people quit, mainly because it's a terrible habit with horrible consequences, but also because it makes me think about quitting myself, and therin lies the rub. When a fellow smoker quits smoking, it momentarily at least, kind of shines a light on my own nasty habit. I see that person becoming free from the addiction and I realize that I'm still stuck. I see them showing courage, will power, self love or what have you and I wonder what's wrong with me, why can't I do the same? So while I am genuinely pleased for the person quitting it does bring about some uncomfortable feelings for me.

 

Furthmore it changes my relationship with that person. We used to go out on our smoke breaks together but now they don't have the need to be freezing their butt off. Can I still talk about smoking with that person or would that be wrong now? and now everytime I do talk to them they're telling me I should quit too, reminding me how bad it is for me and I don't really want to hear that because I don't feel ready to try. Now they complain about the smell of smoke and I can't smoke in their house anymore. As a matter of fact everytime I see them I just end up feeling crappy about smoking.

 

In this vein I do think that some OW (not all) are less than thrilled when another OW decides to change her status.

[bentnotbroken]

You're always spilling something!

 

 

Only when I've had too much to drink.

[pureinheart]

No - they should consider the position EACH person is in and post from that standpoint. They should NOT, however, post in an effort to further THEIR personal situation.

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I was trying to say, but many try to increase the numbers of their "group." NOT good.

 

Often times people do NOT need therapy. What they need is the support of real people who want to help them out of their self imposed prison of BS. With the dawning of the light often comes a real clarity. However, if someone is trying to cloud their vision because they want "partners in crime," for lack of a better description, that's not going to do them any good.

 

I guess I just don't understand this part:

 

why do you think that people who post something (that you may not agree with - especially with regards to affairs) are doing so just to further their agenda? What is their agenda?

 

Why do they care how many people are in affairs? If they are happy in their situations, then why do they need more recruits or "partners in crime"? That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess that's why I just don't see it that way.

 

I wanted to quote the entire thought. Donna- BS's do this all of the time, on this particular board as a matter of fact, to the point of becoming controlling and irrate, using terminology that is completely uncalled for. I can understand this on the Infidelity board, but on this one it makes no sense. I think the underlying issue IS extreme fear and a feeling of being threatened.

 

Tiger, I believe there are many reasons. For some it challenges their current situations. Possibly by bullying on an online forum they can release and feel that they have done the world a service, most being abusive and condemning in their tactic, not to mention constant bullying, but this is acceptable.

 

There was a comment made concerning OWoman and her identifying with the OW when being M. Why is there a problem with that? I see many BS's whose D-Days were many moons ago. This is the OM/OW forum, until the mods determine that the "former" are not allowed here, then she should be able to tell her "former" and "current" story.

[jj33]

So, a friend said:

It made a lot of sense to me and helped explain why some noobs here, as well as some "older" posters, tend to draw most of the fire. It's probably easier to respond to someone with compassion when you don't view them as representative of a threat, while those who get what they want - which might include someone else's H - are too terrible to contemplate, and must be silenced and neutralised at all costs.

 

So, I'm putting this out there for OWs and OMs of all stripes - do you feel our degree of "unapologeticness" or otherwise contributed to the degree, and kind, of support you received - from other APs, from BSs past and present and from anyone else?

 

And for non-APs - does the degree to which an AP is "unapologetic" influence the degree to which you feel yourself able to provide support (of the kind sought by the OP, not what you might assume the OP might need)?[/QUOTE]

 

Owoman to get back to our regularly scheduled program, otherwise known as the questions you posed

 

I dont have a problem supporting an UOW.

 

It is however difficult to support them when you are wading through a thread that is full of vitriol and infighting among posters on issues that are not responsive to the OPs question. It too often becomes a stream of consciousness between BSs and OWs.

 

More is the loss to this forum that things have gone so far in that direction over the course of the past year.

 

There is so much fighting and posting about what about the spouse etc etc that when a poster says I am with my MM and I am having a bad day or I wonder how you deal with x it all gets lost.

 

And frankly it becomes such a labor that I often dont bother anymore.

 

All of which explains why this may seem to some to have become the place ot go if you want to be cheered or shamed into NC (an extensoin of the infidelity board) rather than a safe place for OW to post about being in an A without being judged.

 

I was lucky on this board I got a lot of support but my situatoin was sort of different from most. I have now sold my business so I have little to do with xMM at this point. Had I done that years ago when I was encouraged to do anything to get into total NC with xMM it would have been a disaster for me. Doing it now was the right time. Sometimes the zeal with which posters come at issues is not in the best interests of the OP. Everyone writes from their own position, what they believe is right but to defend your own corner when its not responsive to an OPs question is not helpful.

Edited February 5, 2011 by jj33

[TigerCub]

Tiger,

 

It is obvious to me (and several others) that some other women come here to gloat, to egg on each other, to stir the pot and to generally belittle others that don't agree that Affairs are the way to go. Some OW believe that they have all the power and they have no problem with hurting innocent people (spouses and children). They take offense if anyone tells a hurting OW to get out, to not waste any more time on a cake eater and to not listen to those who didn't "win" the cheater. They like to scream it that they won the guy, so for those that gave up on the MM after months/years of waiting, obviously didn't love the MM the way they loved their mm.

 

In general, there are many more here who have left affairs than there are who are happy being the mistress. At times, it seems as if those who are pro-affair want to 'recruit' others to be in their category of waiting years and years for a MM to leave his wife. Some have no problem doing that - there are a few who come to mind who have sat and waited over 5+ years and are STILL waiting for the day to come where the MM finally leave the wife - and they will exclaim time and time again that these MM are conflicted, split, honorable, etc.

 

And then there are the new labels these OW come up with to belittle and demean those that disagree with them. At first, it is the "bitter" betrayed spouse, and then when there were former OW who also agreed with ending affairs, one of the OW decided to call those people "reformed" OW, and wanted it as a black mark, a negative against those former OW - as if their views don't matter.

Now it seems that another label has been decried - the BBS

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question fooled.

I understand what you're saying..

 

I for one, don't see being a "reformed" OW as a bad thing. I'm glad that I'm no longer in the A, and I'm glad I'm "reformed".

If someone wants to use that against me to discredit me or make it seem like my opinion doesn't count because of that - so be it.

 

As far as calling BS's bitter - I think that's uncalled for. Everyone has their issues and everyone here has gone through so much pain. And I do agree that referring to them as bitter is a way to discredit them - its like "oh, well of course you're gonna think that - you're bitter and jadded!!", but honestly at the end of the day, we have to be honest and objective enough to see that the snide/condesending bulls**t has been flying both ways.

 

Luckily, there are a bunch of nice posters on here still and they were able to help me through my tough time, and I hope that others (no matter what their view on being the OW) can benefit the same way.

 

 

You would think if these women were so happy in their affair that they wouldn't care what others think NOR would they start making labels for them...but it seems as if the opposite is true. They are what I would call bullies. They want to discredit anyone who isn't in agreement with them. .

 

As far as the bullying you mentioned goes - I think on this forum its been going both ways for sure. Some posters act like if an OW doesn't come here filled with shame and remorse, then she deserves their snide remarks, which they like to "pretty up" with a little smiley face at the end - I think that's hypocritical and quite bitchy. The condesending remarks seem to go both ways for sure.

[pureinheart]

Quote by jj33

 

Owoman to get back to our regularly scheduled program, otherwise known as the questions you posed

 

I dont have a problem supporting an UOW.

 

It is however difficult to support them when you are wading through a thread that is full of vitriol and infighting among posters on issues that are not responsive to the OPs question. It too often becomes a stream of consciousness between BSs and OWs.

 

More is the loss to this forum that things have gone so far in that direction over the course of the past year.

 

There is so much fighting and posting about what about the spouse etc etc that when a poster says I am with my MM and I am having a bad day or I wonder how you deal with x it all gets lost.

 

And frankly it becomes such a labor that I often dont bother anymore.

 

All of which explains why this may seem to some to have become the place ot go if you want to be cheered or shamed into NC (an extensoin of the infidelity board) rather than a safe place for OW to post about being in an A without being judged.

 

I was lucky on this board I got a lot of support but my situatoin was sort of different from most. I have now sold my business so I have little to do with xMM at this point. Had I done that years ago when I was encouraged to do anything to get into total NC with xMM it would have been a disaster for me. Doing it now was the right time. Sometimes the zeal with which posters come at issues is not in the best interests of the OP. Everyone writes from their own position, what they believe is right but to defend your own corner when its not responsive to an OPs question is not helpful.

 

**************************

 

 

JJ, in reading your reply I saw the big picture in this. Is it the agenda to derail the OP?

 

A few communicate a dislike concerning threads that "discuss" these issues. It has been said that they take away from those who do need support (I respect this opinion BTW). My opinion is that these threads actually give greater understanding, and an arena to get things out as there could be a build up per se of resentment.

 

For some there is no build up because I see the same rhetoric, thread after thread after thread. Also the same wording, a constant blanket statement not designed for the individual, but "cookie cutter" which takes little thought and even less heart, laced with selective condescending wording.

 

Great post JJ....

[BB07]

TigerCub said.....

I for one, don't see being a "reformed" OW as a bad thing. I'm glad that I'm no longer in the A, and I'm glad I'm "reformed".

If someone wants to use that against me to discredit me or make it seem like my opinion doesn't count because of that - so be it.

Hey I'm right there with you and I agree with all the above.

 

As far as calling BS's bitter - I think that's uncalled for. Everyone has their issues and everyone here has gone through so much pain. And I do agree that referring to them as bitter is a way to discredit them - its like "oh, well of course you're gonna think that - you're bitter and jadded!!", but honestly at the end of the day, we have to be honest and objective enough to see that the snide/condesending bulls**t has been flying both ways.

I just wanted to expand on that bitterness stuff a bit. I have to admit when I came here I threw that word out. Now that I've been through a most painful experience, I've learned that bitterness and anger go together and both are a necessary part of healing irregardless of what you are healing from. I'd also like to add that betrayal is betrayal and yes OW's can feel it just the same as a BS does. For instance if the MM doesn't follow up his promise to leave or you find out that your relationship with MM was based on lies such as in my case. I felt a huge sense of betrayal as what I thought was the truth was not.

 

Luckily, there are a bunch of nice posters on here still and they were able to help me through my tough time, and I hope that others (no matter what their view on being the OW) can benefit the same way.

Yes there are......and some of the them are BS's and some of them are OW's and some of them are here because of some other related trauma in their life.

 

As far as the bullying you mentioned goes - I think on this forum its been going both ways for sure. Some posters act like if an OW doesn't come here filled with shame and remorse, then she deserves their snide remarks, which they like to "pretty up" with a little smiley face at the end - I think that's hypocritical and quite bitchy. The condesending remarks seem to go both ways for sure.

True......although I stop short of calling it bullying. To me. there are lots of time one comment is posted that gets under someone's skin and then there you go, it goes back and forth and hey lots of times it's not even OW and BS who are trading those barbs back and forth. I've been guilty of participating myself at times but none of us are perfect. :)WWIU has made several posts pointing out that if everyone would try to stay on topic and just help with the original post there would be a lot less of the picking and prodding. She is right!

One more thing...I'd like to point out and that the message at the top says this is a support forum for discussion. Discussion doesn't mean that one side of the other is excluded and if a poster finds one thread really turns their stomach or pushes all their buttons, maybe it's better to just exclude yourself from it. I do that at times.

[SidLyon]

There is a new forum set up for OW, by invitation only, established by a trio of LS current and former posters. Most members are using the same user names as they use on LS.

 

It seem they now have their safe place to post, where membership is controlled by themselves with no BS or ROW allowed.

[jj33]

There is a new forum set up for OW, by invitation only, established by a trio of LS current and former posters. Most members are using the same user names as they use on LS.

 

It seem they now have their safe place to post, where membership is controlled by themselves with no BS or ROW allowed.

 

 

 

There are loads of other forums for OWs, BSs etc but that is not the point. The point is about this forum and the type of support an OW can get on this forum.

 

Just because some former LS members set up a private forum doesnt mean that war should be declared on the people who continue to post here (particularly the new posters).

 

The strength of the LS OW/OM forum has been that OWs can get a range of points of view from people with different experiences. Its up to the mods to decide what is acceptable but as I posted above, it is difficult to help sometimes when threads get derailed by infighting.

[whichwayisup]

WWIU has made several posts pointing out that if everyone would try to stay on topic and just help with the original post there would be a lot less of the picking and prodding. She is right!

 

Damm right!!!!!!

 

True......although I stop short of calling it bullying. To me. there are lots of time one comment is posted that gets under someone's skin and then there you go, it goes back and forth and hey lots of times it's not even OW and BS who are trading those barbs back and forth.

 

Yup, you're on the button on that one. And, like you, I've been guilty of it too, we all have.

 

I've learned that bitterness and anger go together and both are a necessary part of healing irregardless of what you are healing from. I'd also like to add that betrayal is betrayal and yes OW's can feel it just the same as a BS does.

 

And this is what has to be remembered. Without judgement, and with just common basic respect, whether one agrees or disagrees with affairs, pain is pain and ALOT of people get hurt, not only the ones in the affair and the BS, but the kids, the extended family as well..Aunts, uncles, siblings, family friends, even neighbours and certain close friendships. So many people are affected to a certain degree.

[polksaladannie]

I am an uOW because I feel that, in my case, if BS put forth a little effort, MM would not be straying.

 

I am a working single mother and I give MM my time, love and encouragement. I try to look my best for him as well. BS could be doing this too, but elects not to. So she gets no sympathy from me. Sorry.

 

BS is a SAHM(nothing wrong with that but there is a huge different between hanging out at home with the kid vs punching a time clock day in and day out) who weighs about 300lbs and has no life. The other day MM told me that he listed his mother as a "person to contact in case of emergency" because BS would not be able to handle it if anything happened to him. To me, that is just sad.

 

Still, I do not try to sway MM's opinion. I keep my observations to myself.

[whichwayisup]

I am an uOW because I feel that, in my case, if BS put forth a little effort, MM would not be straying.

 

I am a working single mother and I give MM my time, love and encouragement. I try to look my best for him as well. BS could be doing this too, but elects not to. So she gets no sympathy from me. Sorry.

 

BS is a SAHM(nothing wrong with that but there is a huge different between hanging out at home with the kid vs punching a time clock day in and day out) who weighs about 300lbs and has no life. The other day MM told me that he listed his mother as a "person to contact in case of emergency" because BS would not be able to handle it if anything happened to him. To me, that is just sad.

 

Still, I do not try to sway MM's opinion. I keep my observations to myself.

I love how so many blame the BS for her husband straying. I guess if he ends the affair and goes back home, will you accept all the responsibility for his decision?

 

The way your MM, the man who said vows to his wife infront of their family and friends, treats his wife, mother of his children is disguisting and disrespectful. You are UOW, fine, good that you're happy... but please, don't put his wife down like that and blame her for HIS choice to cheat. You aren't privvy to what goes on behind closed doors in their house, you only know what he's told you. If he told her "I've met someone else and I am going to have an affair unless you start paying more attention to me" and then she chose to ignore him, then fine, I can totally see your point, but I seriously doubt that happened.

[polksaladannie]

I love how so many blame the BS for her husband straying. I guess if he ends the affair and goes back home, will you accept all the responsibility for his decision?

 

The way your MM, the man who said vows to his wife infront of their family and friends, treats his wife, mother of his children is disguisting and disrespectful. You are UOW, fine, good that you're happy... but please, don't put his wife down like that and blame her for HIS choice to cheat. You aren't privvy to what goes on behind closed doors in their house, you only know what he's told you. If he told her "I've met someone else and I am going to have an affair unless you start paying more attention to me" and then she chose to ignore him, then fine, I can totally see your point, but I seriously doubt that happened.

 

Believe me, in my situation, I know of what I speak. I am not saying that I am a perfect person. God, no. But what I do is try. Anyone can put forth effort.

[whichwayisup]

Believe me, in my situation, I know of what I speak. I am not saying that I am a perfect person. God, no. But what I do is try. Anyone can put forth effort.

 

Okay, I get that.. But still, to blame his wife for his cheating ways isn't right.

 

There are atleast 2 OW on here who recently are fOW, shared their stories, their MM had another OW on the side and neither of them knew about it. Just be careful, because (and never say never) one day you could find out your MM has another OW and could blame YOU for him going out and seeking another affair because you weren't enough for him. How would you feel? I'm just sayin'..