Unapologetic OWs - a threat?

[someday]

Well, none of that applied to me. We certainly did not hide the A, and I certainly did not jump through any hoops (not that my H placed any). I was never in the background of his life, and probably the only reason we were not openly romantic in front of his then-W was because she was never in the same place we were. It was simply never a possibility that has ever come up. To date we have only once ever "bumped into" each other somewhere and we were certainly being ourselves (openly romantic) and she disappeared as fast as she could. I have every reason to believe that had that happened during the A, it would have been much the same.

 

Well, of course it doesn’t apply to you. This must be why you even bothered to post this...because it doesn’t apply to you.

[Taramere]

I can only speak for myself here, not for anyone else (unapologetic or otherwise). I certainly never had any internal conflict during the A, nor do I now - but there are some OWs who come here as noobs, not seeking to escape from their As but seeking support from other OWs or seeking advice on some particular aspect of the A, who get blasted and bullied and treated very unkindly once it's clear that their intentions are not to go NC and repent, repent! It's on behalf of those noob OWs, and in the interests of trying to keep the OW & OM forum a place where OWs and OMs can feel safe to post, that I insist on being visible and making my stance known.

 

So you're here for altruistic motives...to provide support to those who you feel aren't equipped to stand up against the disapproval they encounter on this board?

 

To quote Somerset Maugham:

 

When people say they do not care what others think of them, for the most part they deceive themselves. Generally they mean only that they will do as they choose, in the confidence that no one will know their vagaries; and at the utmost only that they are willing to act contrary to the opinion of the majorities because they are supported by the approval of their neighbors. It’s not difficult to be unconventional in the eyes of the world when your unconventionality is but the convention of your set

 

In this section of this board it might begin to feel quite easy to break the societal taboo against getting sexually/romantically involved with married people. It doesn't alter the fact that in the larger society they are likely to encounter a great deal of disapproval for their OW status.

 

What is it that you're trying to support them to do? Drum up the confidence to speak openly on Loveshack? That's all well and good, but to what end? If they can't go back out there in the real world and be honest with the people they're closest to (eg family and friends) about their relationship status then that is a big problem. One that is many times more significant than any anxiety about disapproving comments from other posters on a message board where they remain anonymous.

 

If they need you to fight their corner and champion the cause of being an unapologetic Other Woman on here, then God help them when it comes to handling the disapproval they'll encounter in the real world if and when their affairs are found out.

[Mimolicious]

So, a friend said:

 

 

 

It made a lot of sense to me and helped explain why some noobs here, as well as some "older" posters, tend to draw most of the fire. It's probably easier to respond to someone with compassion when you don't view them as representative of a threat, while those who get what they want - which might include someone else's H - are too terrible to contemplate, and must be silenced and neutralised at all costs.

 

So, I'm putting this out there for OWs and OMs of all stripes - do you feel our degree of "unapologeticness" or otherwise contributed to the degree, and kind, of support you received - from other APs, from BSs past and present and from anyone else?

 

And for non-APs - does the degree to which an AP is "unapologetic" influence the degree to which you feel yourself able to provide support (of the kind sought by the OP, not what you might assume the OP might need)?

 

 

I got a little magic trick. You leave them the "prize", for them to enjoy ALL by themselves. They are egocentric feens anyway, soooo having the WHOLE cake must be bliss. I have power and the uOW was cremated. No longer an issue in my life, the other way around. The end! In my SIT, actually, if I really had no values and self-worth, I can become "The Threat" and create real issues (again). Who has time for that?!

 

 

This is my message to those that want to waste their time, complicating their lives and the lives of others. Cut it out... if some OW/OM wants your H/W so bad and act this senseless, unapologetic and villainous then so be it. Let them have it! WGAF! There are more than 6 billion people in the world, why waste precious years in such emotional mess. That's for the BS's. For the uOW/uOM here, go ahead go crazy! Have a ball! Remember, karma is not a bitch, she is just a vivid reminder of how much of one you have been. Who am I kidding, some don't even have a conscience...

Don't expect back what you are not putting out. Posters here gets all riddled up about LS'ers jumping down each others throats yet IRL some of you are destroying and hurting others. Nice to see how some of us take an internet forum more to heart than our RLs and the life of those really around us.

 

If everything in life can be CTRL+ALT+DEL...

[Mimolicious]

A threat to what?

 

Someone with so little empathy to be unapologetic is not someone I would hold in high esteem. The man that is unapologetic or wants an unapologetic OW isn't worth much either.

 

Team Peachy Pink. Thak you!

[freestyle]

" I don't care what anybody else thinks..."

 

 

Every time I hear someone say that, I have to chuckle a bit.

 

If a person truly didn't care, then is such a proclamation necessary?

[fooled once]

Ever notice the lack of OM on here talking themselves up and suggesting they are irresistible and therefore some huge threat to male BS? The lack of OM going on to marriage continuing to immerse themselves in and identify with AP discussions? The lack of talking about how unapologetic they are or were about their actions in being an OM? Its an even larger disparity than general relationship discussions shows.

 

Pretty odd for a gender that commonly feels elevated through their attainment of sex. I wonder what it is that has them not feeling compelled to self flattery about these kind of conquests?

 

The responses she THOUGHT she would get - pretty much. A great deal of off-topic general slagging off of OWs rather than actually addressing what was written in the OP (but thanks to those who did )

 

To try to bring it back on topic, what I was quoted in the OP was that uOW tend to be more confident etc etc than the desperate OW who spends her life waiting for MM to fix it. Who sits at home cleaning the litter box rather than living her life. What was said was that the uOW is a much bigger threat to the marriage than the OW generally caricatured; the "catlady" OW. (CLOW is the woman who is at her MM's beck and call, sits at home just waiting for his call, eating tv dinners and feeding her 20 cats hoping that he will call her again soon since it has been 4 days...

 

That is why uOW affect some posters so, because they know she is someone who lives her life, and makes sure she loves her life. The "catlady" OW they so often like to depict most OW as being,is no serious threat at all, since she is so pitiful that no man in his right mind would throw away everything he spent his life working for in order to spend his life hanging out with "catlady". That explains why they like OWs who fit this caricature so much, they are "catlady" OWs whose MMs dump them. More reassurance for them that the OW they HOPE is the only kind their H encounters is of the catlady variety. Were he to encounter an uOW, they would likely not take it all so lightly.

 

Nowhere did the OP claim that the uOW was more ANYTHING than the BW. Reading that in was pure projection on the part of posters who did so. What it compared were two species of OW, positing that one would present a greater threat than the other - and that that would influence the type or amount of support offered.

 

("Support" may be the wrong word, since some OWs are not seeking support. But I suppose what I meant was the opposite of hostility - some OWs are lightning rods to attract hostility while others are treated to smiles and knitting patterns.)

 

Wow - isn't this just a tad bit dramatic? Are you implying that those OW who aren't unapologetic are nothing more than crazy cat ladies? how insulting to those women. How insulting to other women period. For someone who claims she is the be-end-all of womanhood, I am stunned and saddened that you used such a broad and nasty brush to paint other mistresses/ow. With that kind of view, is it any wonder so many newbies run off? When you paint them as pathetic, lonely nut jobs?

 

Owoman you are no threat to me or my marriage and neither is your 'friend'

[donnamaybe]

Wow - isn't this just a tad bit dramatic? Are you implying that those OW who aren't unapologetic are nothing more than crazy cat ladies? how insulting to those women. How insulting to other women period. For someone who claims she is the be-end-all of womanhood, I am stunned and saddened that you used such a broad and nasty brush to paint other mistresses/ow. With that kind of view, is it any wonder so many newbies run off? When you paint them as pathetic, lonely nut jobs?

 

Owoman you are no threat to me or my marriage and neither is your 'friend'

Yup. Pretty ugly stuff, huh?

 

And BS's get called bitter. Go figure.

[SidLyon]

My comments in bold and below.

 

So, a friend said:

 

But you will see the BBWs' fears surface over and over again.They fear unapologetic OW most of all.

 

I disagree.

 

I think it is because they see us as the type of women most likely to "get the MM" in the end. It seems to me that we who are unapologetic tend to be more self-centered, self-assured, self-confident. I think that as a "species" uOW tend to be more self-sufficient, intellectual, humourous, commited. Because of that, uOW are feared above all because we are the type of women men DO "fall in love" with. We are the type of women whose company is desired by men. They know that with women like that men usually are not in it just for the sex, though they also know that bcause we are all those things we also tend to be great lovers.

 

No, apart from the bit about self-centredness, not the case in my view.

 

(A confident lover always is much more fun than an insecure lover.)

 

Yes - but this has nothing to do with being an OW, nor her level of "apologeticness".

 

They do not really fear women who stay at home all day cleaning the litter-box while waiting for the MM to call. She is no real threat to them.

 

See below. Whether or not somebody cleans anything in her home is not determinative of her level of threat to a marriage or BW, nor is there any link with her level of apologeticness.

 

It made a lot of sense to me and helped explain why some noobs here, as well as some "older" posters, tend to draw most of the fire. It's probably easier to respond to someone with compassion when you don't view them as representative of a threat, while those who get what they want - which might include someone else's H - are too terrible to contemplate, and must be silenced and neutralised at all costs.

 

So, I'm putting this out there for OWs and OMs of all stripes - do you feel our degree of "unapologeticness" or otherwise contributed to the degree, and kind, of support you received - from other APs, from BSs past and present and from anyone else?

 

And for non-APs - does the degree to which an AP is "unapologetic" influence the degree to which you feel yourself able to provide support (of the kind sought by the OP, not what you might assume the OP might need)?

 

I see no threat to me in real life from anyone here on LS.

 

An OW was a threat to relationships my H had with me, our kids and wider family and friends. I really don't know her level of apologeticness, and I doubt it was relevant anyway. She gave me a sort of apology and this didn't alter my perception of her as a threat, so I'm fairly sure the premise of this thread is false.

 

The thing is that I'm a pretty good judge of people. I was on a internet discussion forum for a number of years and was eventually able to meet some of the posters in real life. What interested me was that my perceptions of their characteristics and personalities, determined just by how and what they wrote, turned out to be highly accurate. Funnily enough what I imagined they might look like was completely inaccurate.

 

Translating this to LS, I form opinions about people based on what and how they write and realistically I have decided I would not like some in real life. There are not all that many unapologetic OW on LS. A couple I find inoffensive, but most portray themselves as unlikeable, unpleasant people. Personally it's difficult to provide support for someone that's unpleasant and rude in the way they conduct themselves on this forum.

 

I respect the obvious intelligence of many posters, likable or not. I'm here for the discussion side of things anyway, rather than to give support, so quite willing to engage in discussion with OW, apologetic or not, irrespective of whether I "like" them.

[Woggle]

Ever notice the lack of OM on here talking themselves up and suggesting they are irresistible and therefore some huge threat to male BS? The lack of OM going on to marriage continuing to immerse themselves in and identify with AP discussions? The lack of talking about how unapologetic they are or were about their actions in being an OM? Its an even larger disparity than general relationship discussions shows.

 

Pretty odd for a gender that commonly feels elevated through their attainment of sex. I wonder what it is that has them not feeling compelled to self flattery about these kind of conquests?

 

It's because I think OM know how easy it is. For a player with no standards it is the easiest way to do it.

 

As for the topic I don't OW/OM threatening. I don't agree with it but without cheating spouses they could not exist. People who cheat are who need to be worried about. OW/OM are simply opportunists taking advantage what a cheater will give them.

[BB07]

The responses she THOUGHT she would get - pretty much. A great deal of off-topic general slagging off of OWs rather than actually addressing what was written in the OP (but thanks to those who did )

 

To try to bring it back on topic, what I was quoted in the OP was that uOW tend to be more confident etc etc than the desperate OW who spends her life waiting for MM to fix it. Who sits at home cleaning the litter box rather than living her life. What was said was that the uOW is a much bigger threat to the marriage than the OW generally caricatured; the "catlady" OW. (CLOW is the woman who is at her MM's beck and call, sits at home just waiting for his call, eating tv dinners and feeding her 20 cats hoping that he will call her again soon since it has been 4 days...

 

That is why uOW affect some posters so, because they know she is someone who lives her life, and makes sure she loves her life. The "catlady" OW they so often like to depict most OW as being,is no serious threat at all, since she is so pitiful that no man in his right mind would throw away everything he spent his life working for in order to spend his life hanging out with "catlady". That explains why they like OWs who fit this caricature so much, they are "catlady" OWs whose MMs dump them. More reassurance for them that the OW they HOPE is the only kind their H encounters is of the catlady variety. Were he to encounter an uOW, they would likely not take it all so lightly.

 

Nowhere did the OP claim that the uOW was more ANYTHING than the BW. Reading that in was pure projection on the part of posters who did so. What it compared were two species of OW, positing that one would present a greater threat than the other - and that that would influence the type or amount of support offered.

 

("Support" may be the wrong word, since some OWs are not seeking support. But I suppose what I meant was the opposite of hostility - some OWs are lightning rods to attract hostility while others are treated to smiles and knitting patterns.)

 

 

After that post I wonder.........are uOW the only OW that you consider worthy of your support?

[donnamaybe]

After that post I wonder.........are uOW the only OW that you consider worthy of your support?

You mean those with a haughty attitude?

[BB07]

You mean those with a haughty attitude?

 

And..........those that insult every other OW who is not a uOW, well that post sure made it seem that way.

[moloko]

isn't someone thinking they are a threat a form of narcissism?

[2themoon&back]

Wow! You are just so considerate and sweet aren't you?. Remember dear, what goes around comes around. If you follow "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you" I am sure you will joyfully understand when it is your turn to be treated in the same manner as you so gleefully treat others.

 

 

 

 

 

I have not read the whole thread and wont pretend that I have, I just wanted to comment on that saying ( it caught my attention)--- "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you" I believe this is a good way to start a relationship with anyone, you try kindness, and if you are met with negative behavior---shame on them--- you try kindness again and again if you are met with negative behavior shame on you, then it is time to mirror “their” behavior and step away from them before you become like them and cut that relationship out of your life.

 

Just because you treat other as you would "like" to be treated is not a guarantee it will happen.

 

Even in your response here … I doubt you would want someone to mirror the condescending tone in your words.

 

It is obvious here that you really do not think the AP is considerate or sweet but you did warn her of the “do unto others” while ignoring it for yourself IMO.

 

If the reader were to follow the “do unto others” rule with you … In a response post … they would have to start off with a Condescending Sugarcoated lie.

[2themoon&back]

isn't someone thinking they are a threat a form of narcissism?

 

I have read that anyone with high self esteem may have some of the same characteristics as narcissism and does not make self esteem a bad thing on its own merit.

 

Only when coupled with more than one of the characteristics of narcissism does it become detrimental behavior.

 

 

I have also read almost everyone has some characteristics of narcissism; this does not make everyone narcissistic though.

[2themoon&back]

isn't someone thinking they are a threat a form of narcissism?

 

 

I think someone thinking they are a threat is usually attributed to the reaction of others more than a personality disorder.

[JaneyAmazed]

I have a question though... OWoman, till when are you going to carry around the persona of the "uOW"? When do you get to blossom into the "BBS"? Bombshell Bootylicious Spouse (It's my fave, so it's sticking because I am uBS and IDGAF what you guys think ). Ok, let me cut the goofing...

 

No for real, countless times I have seen others post: "If you're over your sitch why are you still posting? why are you still bitter? why are you still carrying a label?" blah, blah, blah....

 

If I was a newbie and didn't know any background on you, I would be under the impression that you are still an OW. Just wondering...

 

As a newbie, my first impression of the UOWs that post here on LS is that they are trying to convince themselves that there is nothing wrong with being an UOW. It's pretty obvious that no one else is convinced or ever will be no matter how many threads or posts address the topic.

[2themoon&back]

You incorrectly assume the high self esteem of a unapologetic OW, I think.

 

 

I highly doubt that------ since I am ONE!! But thank you for your incorrect assumption.

[jlola]

I have not read the whole thread and wont pretend that I have, I just wanted to comment on that saying ( it caught my attention)--- "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you" I believe this is a good way to start a relationship with anyone, you try kindness, and if you are met with negative behavior---shame on them--- you try kindness again and again if you are met with negative behavior shame on you, then it is time to mirror “their” behavior and step away from them before you become like them and cut that relationship out of your life.

 

Just because you treat other as you would "like" to be treated is not a guarantee it will happen.

 

Even in your response here … I doubt you would want someone to mirror the condescending tone in your words.

 

It is obvious here that you really do not think the AP is considerate or sweet but you did warn her of the “do unto others” while ignoring it for yourself IMO.

 

If the reader were to follow the “do unto others” rule with you … In a response post … they would have to start off with a Condescending Sugarcoated lie.

 

 

I never said I do not put a lid on people who treat me with disrespect. In fact I love by the code "Do not mistake kindnerss for weakness".

 

I do not believe in purposely hurting others. I live by the code if I hurt myself it is my problem and others who only hurt themselves have noone to answer to but themselves.. To hurt yourself is your right. But when you hurt otherrs who haver done nothing to you, to disrespect someone who has done nothing to you is wrong.

 

If you think I am being condesending to someone who is being disrespectful and hurtful , disrespectful to someone who is disrespecting another why is that?

 

There is a jury for people who commit crime against others. Noone is put on trial for hurting themselves. I guess the justice system is condescending as we are not allowed to call people in on their actions.

 

This "me,me,me" generation and "how dare you judge me",While I disrespect and hurt people and possibly children is why society is going to pot!!!

[jlola]

[quote name=2themoonEven in your response here … I doubt you would want someone to mirror the condescending tone in your words.

 

.[/quote]

 

 

You are mistaken about that " faithful are the wounds of a friend , but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful". I would rather someone be harsh with me with the trurh. If I am being selfish and hurtful to others, rather than sit there and coddle me and tell me what I want to hear. Because it is only through understanding the pain I bring can I understand and change my behavior.

 

 

My father was a selfish narcissist. If I followed his behaviorand my mother never corrected me I I guess I would be one too.

 

But I was taught to show respect UNTIL the person showed be otherwise. Yes, I do onto others, but you are correct. I treat people the exact way they treat me.

 

I also know I need to be considerate also. Because if I were to go around blindly doing what I felt like doing, you better believe I would accept the consequences . I am NOT a hypocrite!!!

[OpenBook]

To address the topic of this thread, if it is jealousy, then I have trouble seeing how they are a real threat. After all, if they were secure that they were one up, they wouldn't be jealous.

 

Exactly! If it's true what so many BBW's claim - that they've one-upped the OW & got their man back, and are now blissfully happy in their M's, completely recovered from their H's infidelity, and the OW is irrelevant to them & their M's - then why are they acting so jealous, putting so much time & effort into demeaning the OW when they could otherwise be enjoying their fabulous lives?

[2themoon&back]

I never said I do not put a lid on people who treat me with disrespect. In fact I love by the code "Do not mistake kindnerss for weakness".

 

 

I do not believe in purposely hurting others. I live by the code if I hurt myself it is my problem and others who only hurt themselves have noone to answer to but themselves.. To hurt yourself is your right. But when you hurt otherrs who haver done nothing to you, to disrespect someone who has done nothing to you is wrong.

 

If you think I am being condesending to someone who is being disrespectful and hurtful , disrespectful to someone who is disrespecting another why is that?

 

There is a jury for people who commit crime against others. Noone is put on trial for hurting themselves. I guess the justice system is condescending as we are not allowed to call people in on their actions.

 

This "me,me,me" generation and "how dare you judge me",While I disrespect and hurt people and possibly children is why society is going to pot!!!

 

 

Wow... I am sorry I did not realize you had a cape on to do justice for all on LS, I would not have said anything.

 

But the justice system is just that a blind justice, with no pre judgments in it. OTOH You are being judgmental for whom you deem deserving of justice not the “whole lot”.

 

The justice system is unbiased and will dole out punishment fitting to the laws that have been broken, not on an opinion of said law, but the written law, so no the justice system is not condescending it lacks emotion and it does not addresses you "dear" , it addresses you as the "defendant".

 

You can call anybody out you want to; just respect it when it happens to you as well.

 

FYI-Condescending---showing or implying condescension by stooping to the level of one’s inferiors, esp in a patronizing way.

[whichwayisup]

BBW, BBS, UOW, HOW, SOW, NOW, GOW, whatever.... Is name callling and putting labels helping LS overall? This person says this, that person says that.. blah. This just keeping people apart and making LS worse.

 

Maybe since it's chinese new year, start off with a new fresh start? Is it possible?

 

Let's try not to use BBS, UOW, other labels. it pisses most off and it's getting so tiresome to read. Or is it just me?

 

Sorry if I'm coming off lecturish, don't mean to, it's just ANY discussion always turns nasty and mean, it would be really cool, one day, hopefully soon to have a nice discussion without all the overreaction and emotion, keep it more on the subject itself rather than it getting personal and low blow shots are happening.

[woinlove]

Exactly! If it's true what so many BBW's claim - that they've one-upped the OW & got their man back, and are now blissfully happy in their M's, completely recovered from their H's infidelity, and the OW is irrelevant to them & their M's - then why are they acting so jealous, putting so much time & effort into demeaning the OW when they could otherwise be enjoying their fabulous lives?

 

Why do you want to assign labels to groups of people who post here when they do not agree with those labels? As you know, we already have one self-identified uOW, as well as a unnamed friend of hers doing this. Why not treat people with more respect and identify them the way the like to identify themselves? The BW's who post here have identified themselves as BW's. It would be unfortunate if a group of OWs started the trend of posters calling other groups of posters by names they found to be derogatory and would not use for themselves.

 

I don't care if you say the B is for best, beautiful, bitch, bitter, or whatever - you know that acronym has only been used to refer to groups of BS and/or BW in negative ways here and the OP which we are discussing is just a further example of this - assigning fear and insecurity to one group while trying to assign only positive traits to the group throwing out the unsubstantiated charges.

[seren]

Sticking my head above the parapet, I will say that I sort of get the unapologetic OW thing. if someone is unapologetic, it means to me that they have decided that their actions and their needs are in tune with their moral compass, that their wishes and desires are paramount and as the relationship with a MM suits them, that they are OK with that behaviour. It also suggests (to me) that little or no thought is given to the BS and therefore the feelings of the BS don't affect them as they aren't in the relationship with the BS. Not saying I agree with it, and I would hope that those who are unapologetic don't end up on here as BS or OOW or OOM further down the line and then go on to wonder why and how betrayal hurts so much. Otherwise the label they have given themselves becomes rather transient and is perhaps more of a convinient one rather than who they are or choose to be identified as.

 

The one UOW I remember most is no longer here, I didn't always agree with what she said, in fact rarely, and read umpteen posters engage with her to point out how wrong her views were. However, I have to give it to her, she was always, but always true to her beliefs and her realtionship. I sort of felt sorry for her and really hope she would find what she was waiting for, but understood that she enjoyed the moment.

 

I do not find UOW at all threatening, didn't even know there were OW who were thought of as needy and crazy cat people, you live and learn. I just know it wouldn't work for me, it would not sit well with my moral compass, I don't and have never knowingly shared the person I love, not with anyone, unapologetic or not. I just wish the unapologetic would be honest with the BS, get it all out into the open, lets all have choices, lets put the MM on the spot and force a D Day. Surely in the spirit of equality and equal chances and all that the unapolgetic shouldn't fear that the MM might not choose to stay with the marriage?

 

I think I would have much preferred the OW in the A to be truly unapologetic, it is one thing to be unapologetic during the A, something else to be loud and proud after if the MM stay with his wife. It really isn't a competition, how can it be? That suggests everyone involved knows where the finishing line is, or even what they are in competition with someone.

 

I really do not fear an unapologetic OW, not one iota. If my H was going to cheat, again, then he knows the end result, he is out on his a***, wouldn't matter if it was someone who was unapologetic or not.

I am an unapologetic happily married woman, I shout my love from the rooftops, IRL, I can, I have damm all to apologise for, nor anyone to hide it from. I wish everyone to have that freedom to proclaim they are in love and are loved IRL. I would also add, that I found the comparison between UOW and OW a tadge insulting, some OW are fed as many lies as the BS, they believe they are loved too and pain is pain, I think everyone should be apologetic about enabling pain, MM especially.