How long would you keep trying

[shane147]

How long would you keep trying if you were me?

 

Married 15 years, 3 kids. Passion gone, intimacy forgotten, communication a thing of the past. I've tried it all, she won't try counseling as I've made the suggestion.

 

Perhaps we can work on the communication and learn to coexist. It comes and goes in cycles, which I suppose is normal.

 

I'll try to tell her my feelings and she says that it's just me and brushes me away.

 

A major problem is with sex. It is boring, dull, and basically the same every time.. no variety, no spontaneity. I can honestly say that I treat her great.. passion, romance, and I try to spice it up.. but she is quick to reject most any ideas that I present. (Im not talking xxx stuff either). She WILL NOT reciprocate how I treat her sexually. I've tried talking to her, writing letters, treating her like a queen, etc and I have just come to the conclusion that this is the way it will be and that we are just incompatible.

 

Perhaps by reading some of my other recent posts, you may get an idea of what other problems we have, but it is basically communication problems... very poor, VERY POOR communication.

 

I'm sure that we could stay together, married, however miserable we may be... all for the kids, but I'm not sure how the kids will end up, not knowing what a happy mommy and daddy are supposed to act like.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

[denise_xo]

Identity what you need to happen to stay in the marriage, and communicate it clearly to her. E.g. 'I want us to start MC to improve our communication, I want the following changes with our sex life, [insert whatever]. In return I am willing to listen to you if there are things you need to make this work'.

 

Make it clear that you are reconsidering the marriage if nothing changes. People need to understand that there are real consequences to not doing something, it's human nature. If she is still not willing to do anything, you have your answer.

 

Are you (and her) willing to try MC?

[giotto]

you are where we were 5 years ago. I was desperate for a "normal" relationship, but kept bashing my head against a wall. I'm staying for the kids too. That's the decision I've taken. I'm not happy, but even counselling didn't achieve anything.

 

EDIT: I've read your other threads and I must say your situation is pretty ugly... at least we get on and don't shout at each other and we have sex occasionally... You really DO NEED counselling.

 

How long would you keep trying if you were me?

 

Married 15 years, 3 kids. Passion gone, intimacy forgotten, communication a thing of the past. I've tried it all, she won't try counseling as I've made the suggestion.

 

Perhaps we can work on the communication and learn to coexist. It comes and goes in cycles, which I suppose is normal.

 

I'll try to tell her my feelings and she says that it's just me and brushes me away.

 

A major problem is with sex. It is boring, dull, and basically the same every time.. no variety, no spontaneity. I can honestly say that I treat her great.. passion, romance, and I try to spice it up.. but she is quick to reject most any ideas that I present. (Im not talking xxx stuff either). She WILL NOT reciprocate how I treat her sexually. I've tried talking to her, writing letters, treating her like a queen, etc and I have just come to the conclusion that this is the way it will be and that we are just incompatible.

 

Perhaps by reading some of my other recent posts, you may get an idea of what other problems we have, but it is basically communication problems... very poor, VERY POOR communication.

 

I'm sure that we could stay together, married, however miserable we may be... all for the kids, but I'm not sure how the kids will end up, not knowing what a happy mommy and daddy are supposed to act like.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

Edited February 1, 2011 by giotto

[elemental1]

there is a truth that i am reluctantly learning about my GF/wife (we have been together for 8 years so she is, by principle, my wife) and that is that she is who she is. any change she has to make has to be from her own desire. no amount of effort on my part will suddenly get her to treat me like her lover instead of an extra hand around the house or an extra source of income. no amount of pampering is going to snap some sort of revelation into her head about how she treats me.

 

the point i am getting at is that all of the efforts you are making to better your relationship are for naught. a relationship takes effort from both sides. a one-winged bird can only fly in circles... get me?

 

i have communication problems too. they are getting to a point where i dont even think i want to make the effort anymore. have you reached that point yet? i know there are children involved so that doesnt help when you need to think about yourself. i know because i have a 6 year old son. for nearly 8 years, my needs have been 3rd in line....and i am beginning to realize that it is a big mistake to forego your own needs for the sake of someone else's. the same goes for your children..i mean how can you be the best dad you can possibly be to them if you are miserable? you can put on a face for them as if everything is fine and they might go along with it, but eventually your misery will manifest itself in other forms...i.e. anger, resentment, violence etc.

 

my advice to you is to start thinking about yourself. take inventory of YOUR life. it will eventually come down to a choice and if you want a good life for yourself and your children (their happiness is ultimately tied to yours) then you need to make the right choice. it is either continue on with the routine, having all of your efforts unnoticed and unreciprocated, living in a house where communication is nonexistent...not to mention passion or sex... or ... choose to move on with YOUR life. you might be even more miserable at first, but two weeks will pass and youll notice that you are feeling better...

 

the more time it takes, the more painful it will be.

[TigerCub]

 

I'm sure that we could stay together, married, however miserable we may be... all for the kids, but I'm not sure how the kids will end up, not knowing what a happy mommy and daddy are supposed to act like.

Shane I just want to applaud you for considering the stuff in bold. I see a lot of people who, like you, are miserable in their Ms, but "stay for the kids" - sure some bad Ms are worse than others, and maybe not all of them have the parents yelling at each other all the time and stuff - but I do think that kids pick up on tension and unhappiness in the home (even if there isn't shouting and physical violence) and it always makes me wonder "how is it any better for the kids to grow up in an unhappy and loveless home than have their parents divorce?"

 

that part doesn't make sense to me.

 

Sure, I'll admit, my parents never divorced, but they were unhappy and I grew up unhappy and I had a lot of issues - so whenever I hear the "for the kids" argument, it just makes me sad - because most people can't seem to see that they cause just as much damage to their kids by carrying on in a miserable home.

 

I just wanted to say thank you for at least considering the damage that could be done by staying in a miserable M.

 

I hope that you do what's best for you and your kids

 

Good luck!

[giotto]

I just wanted to say thank you for at least considering the damage that could be done by staying in a miserable M.

 

I hope that you do what's best for you and your kids

 

Good luck!

 

We all consider it, but, as you say, not every marriage in crisis is a bad marriage. For example, our marriage could be much better, but we always make sure that we behave in a civil way and we are still a family, do stuff together. We don't hate each other... perfect families don't exist. Do we really want to give our kids the impression/illusion that family life is always perfect and that parents do not experience any problems and are always happy? There is a flip side to the coin... but as I said, it really depends on how bad the marriage is...

[TigerCub]

We all consider it, but, as you say, not every marriage in crisis is a bad marriage. For example, our marriage could be much better, but we always make sure that we behave in a civil way and we are still a family, do stuff together. We don't hate each other... perfect families don't exist. Do we really want to give our kids the impression/illusion that family life is always perfect and that parents do not experience any problems and are always happy? There is a flip side to the coin... but as I said, it really depends on how bad the marriage is...

 

Thanks for giving me some feedback on what parents consider...I appreciate it.

 

I'm sorry but that question in bold makes it seem like you guys aren't the perfect family BECAUSE you don't want to do your kids the disservice and give them the impression that families can be perfect.

 

Look, I never said that families can be perfect, and I certainly don't think that anything in life is perfect or stays that way.

 

Your M, as you described it above, doesn't sound bad, sure it can be better (anything can be just a little better than it is - because there is no such thing as perfect), but you guys do things together, you're civil, and I assume have happy family time together. That doesn't sound like a bad home to me...

 

The Ms I was referring to, I called "Miserable Ms" they are nothing like the M you described.

[giotto]

The Ms I was referring to, I called "Miserable Ms" they are nothing like the M you described.

 

ok, fair enough...

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Shane, you can't wait for her to see the light, or for her to change.

 

All you can do work on yourself and attempt to communicate in a positive with her in a way that has shown to be effective in other areas.

 

As far as how long would I keep trying... I want to be a dreamer and say forever, as long as I live I would still believe there is hope. But there comes a time when it's time to move on. Complacent spouses sometimes change when that point comes. Sometimes they change too late. There's a gal on the infidelity boards who has been divorced 4 years, and is in a new relationship and realized she made serious mistakes and wants her ex-husband of 4 years back!

 

You must make the best possible decisions for you, your children, and even your wife. ESPECIALLY your wife really, she is the mother to your kids!

 

I know the society and culture we live in make it tough to appreciate everything that really matters and let go of the things that don't. But don't get short sided and decide to end it until you have fixed yourself! Be the best man you can be on every level, not just in regards to your wife...

 

Good luck my man.

Edited February 1, 2011 by She's_NotInLove_w/Me

[shane147]

there is a truth that i am reluctantly learning about my GF/wife (we have been together for 8 years so she is, by principle, my wife) and that is that she is who she is. any change she has to make has to be from her own desire. no amount of effort on my part will suddenly get her to treat me like her lover instead of an extra hand around the house or an extra source of income. no amount of pampering is going to snap some sort of revelation into her head about how she treats me.

 

the point i am getting at is that all of the efforts you are making to better your relationship are for naught. a relationship takes effort from both sides. a one-winged bird can only fly in circles... get me?

 

i have communication problems too. they are getting to a point where i dont even think i want to make the effort anymore. have you reached that point yet? i know there are children involved so that doesnt help when you need to think about yourself. i know because i have a 6 year old son. for nearly 8 years, my needs have been 3rd in line....and i am beginning to realize that it is a big mistake to forego your own needs for the sake of someone else's. the same goes for your children..i mean how can you be the best dad you can possibly be to them if you are miserable? you can put on a face for them as if everything is fine and they might go along with it, but eventually your misery will manifest itself in other forms...i.e. anger, resentment, violence etc.

 

my advice to you is to start thinking about yourself. take inventory of YOUR life. it will eventually come down to a choice and if you want a good life for yourself and your children (their happiness is ultimately tied to yours) then you need to make the right choice. it is either continue on with the routine, having all of your efforts unnoticed and unreciprocated, living in a house where communication is nonexistent...not to mention passion or sex... or ... choose to move on with YOUR life. you might be even more miserable at first, but two weeks will pass and youll notice that you are feeling better...

 

the more time it takes, the more painful it will be.

 

Elemental, thanks for the reply. This sounds like a portrait of my marriage right now. Whether she will admit it or not, the resentment runs pretty deep. (From her and me) It's taken me a long time, but I have finally hit this point where I realize that she is who / what she is and I am who / what I am and that certain things are not going to change.

[shane147]

I just feel like either way I go, I'm in for lots of second guessing and regret. I feel, and I believe she does too, that if it weren't for the kids we would most certainly not have been married this long. I honestly don't believe that we will be together very long at all after the kids are grown. We both talk quite often about our post-kid life and it seems that we almost accept this fate of staying together until then. It's like a battle where we punish ourselves and see how much we can endure. On the flip side, I'll always wish that I could have been part of one of these couples like my grandparents.. till death do us part. (Nearly 50 years in their case, and they are buried side by side)

 

I don't know if I can bear the thoughts of how I will feel after 15 -20 more years of THIS, always wondering if / when things will improve.

 

I've been trying to work on myself and do as much as I can to improve myself on many levels. I read a lot about marriage and communication and admittedly I have a Sh___load to learn. As I try to talk about things that we can do to improve and enrich our marriage, I am basically shut up by her. She doesn't want to get into deep conversation and just says "we need to be nice", and tries to leave it at that. I feel like she oversimplifies things in an effort to manipulate and control the conversation. My W says that I don't accept closure on issues. I don't believe this is true for a few reasons. 1. Things never change / improve. 2. She doesn't offer a resolution.. she only says.. "I hear you", and stops short of implying any closure.

 

For my family, I see many ways that we have set poor examples. Our kids have no doubt that they are loved, but they are all pretty hard and cold sometimes as they see screaming as the norm in family communication. Guess how they choose to communicate??? Not the kind and gentle stuff, but more screaming and yelling in hopes to get their message across. They don't express themselves very well. This is all crap that they have learned from mom and dad. And unfortunately, I see my middle child as one who is quickly learning to go hide and avoid conflict, instead of trying to deal with it. This saddens me and I try to speak to him about it, but again... I see this as a product of a dysfunctional family. They will all grow up to feel loved and know they are special and unique, but I just don't feel very good about the example we set sometimes.

[Windsurf66]

you should think carefully if this is the person u want to spend your life with....if you are young, why stay with such a person? If i am in your shoes, I wouldn't waste my life away.

 

And btw, there are many people in your shoes, who find out subsequently that their wife has been screwing others and doing all the erotic and exciting sexual moves that she has been denying you its not that she is not interested in sex, she is just not interested in doing it with you, period.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Shane, it hurts the read what you write. Only because my wife and I have exposed our 5 kids to more than their fair share of arguing, yelling, and other dysfunction... Our kids still seem remarkably well adjusted, do well in school, etc. But I do see the attitudes and resentments in them sometimes too... especially my second (the middle of the first 3, ages 15,14&11 - our youngest are 5 and 3).

 

In any case, you deserve to enjoy your day to day life, and honestly, so does your wife. This does not mean you have to split... no way. Too much vested here to just walk. How about a marriage conference? www.familylife.com There were 300 couples at our conference, and I know there were marriages saved there, without a doubt, they openly admitted it to the crowd at the end of the conference.

 

Marital counseling? Individual therapy? There are many resources at the library and/or bookstore.

 

You said yourself, there will be regrets and doubts no matter which path you choose... why choose to break up your family if there will be regret and doubt either way?

 

I totally believe your wife needs to change, but guess what, we cannot count on that at all. You can only change and improve yourself.

 

Have you read anything by Michelle Weiner-Davis? She has several great titles including:

http://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Remedy-Proven-Program-Marriage/dp/0684873257/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Starved-Marriage-Couples-Boosting-Libido/dp/0743227328

 

There are so many tools and genuine sources of help out there. Take action, do not let another day of being complacent in your marriage go by. Your wife and kids are so worth it...

 

One you change for the better, without the expectation and demand that she change, guess what miraculously happens... she will begin to change for the better.

Edited February 4, 2011 by She's_NotInLove_w/Me

[lovingwhatis]

Shane, hi. Yes, you should stay forever.

 

No, really, what kind of advice are you hoping for here?

Your posts are some of the saddest things i've read, and i dont know what to do, to shake you or hug you.

 

Exactly three years has passed since you last posted, and you seem to be in the same space, only worse.

 

Are you waiting for a miracle? Your quilt is choking you, at the same time you are so emotionally beat down that i doubt 'you' can pull the trigger.

 

Take this as a friend talking, or better yet don't listen to anything me or anyone says and find out what you are living for.

How long would you keep trying if you were me?

 

Married 15 years, 3 kids. Passion gone, intimacy forgotten, communication a thing of the past. I've tried it all, she won't try counseling as I've made the suggestion.

 

Perhaps we can work on the communication and learn to coexist. It comes and goes in cycles, which I suppose is normal.

 

I'll try to tell her my feelings and she says that it's just me and brushes me away.

 

A major problem is with sex. It is boring, dull, and basically the same every time.. no variety, no spontaneity. I can honestly say that I treat her great.. passion, romance, and I try to spice it up.. but she is quick to reject most any ideas that I present. (Im not talking xxx stuff either). She WILL NOT reciprocate how I treat her sexually. I've tried talking to her, writing letters, treating her like a queen, etc and I have just come to the conclusion that this is the way it will be and that we are just incompatible.

 

Perhaps by reading some of my other recent posts, you may get an idea of what other problems we have, but it is basically communication problems... very poor, VERY POOR communication.

 

I'm sure that we could stay together, married, however miserable we may be... all for the kids, but I'm not sure how the kids will end up, not knowing what a happy mommy and daddy are supposed to act like.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.