IS it WORK RELATED?

[OWoman]

When women are unavailable, but hit on a lot, it means they have to do a lot of rejecting, which can't be a lot of fun for anyone. (Excluding the case where a woman might want/need this type of validation - and even then it can't be fun.)

 

I think of projecting unavailability (what is being referred to here as not giving off the vibe) as a more subtle and encompassing way to reject, and find it to be gentler for all involved.

 

Interesting notion... but I've observed that women who are involved, and exude a "loved up" vibe, are magnets to men, while many unattached women give off an air of desperation that sends men scarpering!

 

I've never given off an "available" vibe at work because I am, and always have been, completely unavailable to anyone I work with. But, because of my organisational roles and my visibility, I was very well known and because I kept my private life so private, there was inevitably a good deal of speculation. I did come in for some unwanted advances, despite stringent sexual harassment policies which declared even a single instance of unwanted attention to be harassment, despite projecting unavailability.

 

"Giving off vibes" sounds to me like a different slant to the old "she was asking for it" line rapists use...

[woinlove]

Interesting notion... but I've observed that women who are involved, and exude a "loved up" vibe, are magnets to men, while many unattached women give off an air of desperation that sends men scarpering!

 

I've never given off an "available" vibe at work because I am, and always have been, completely unavailable to anyone I work with. But, because of my organisational roles and my visibility, I was very well known and because I kept my private life so private, there was inevitably a good deal of speculation. I did come in for some unwanted advances, despite stringent sexual harassment policies which declared even a single instance of unwanted attention to be harassment, despite projecting unavailability.

 

"Giving off vibes" sounds to me like a different slant to the old "she was asking for it" line rapists use...

 

So I'm like a rapist now? Wow, is that the best you have to give?

 

We weren't even discussing harassment although obviously one can go from meeting the MM you hope to marry at work, to making a personal friend, to meeting others you aren't so taken with, to accepting a flirt or not, to getting advances you reject and don't consider harassment, to harassment. Obviously, since so many people meet their MP at work and fall in love, there is a lot of room between harassment policies and welcome connections made at work.

 

Harassment at work is an interesting and important topic, but that isn't what we were discussing when we were discussing "the vibes". Human interactions are complex -- people give off all kind of signals and information is not only contained in the words we speak. For those who want to ignore or even deny this, fine by me.

[HappyAtLast]

I believe that many affairs begin in the workplace because of proximity and the long hours that folks are now working.

 

That said, I also believe that seeing someone in their element, at work, is seeing them in a light in which you may never see your own spouse.

 

I met my affair partner at work. She was a brilliant surgeon, kind, respected, somewhat famous. To see her in action, first hand, to see the difference that she made in the world was what made me fall in love with her.

 

To be fair, my then spouse could certainly not have been expected to compete with this (nor did I expect her to), but to not think that these types of situations occur in the workplace is a bit naive.

 

I have met many beautiful and brilliant doctors since then, but have never even considered allowing myself to become more than polite co-workers.

[OWoman]

So I'm like a rapist now? Wow, is that the best you have to give?

 

I never claimed YOU were like a rapist. If you'd bothered to read what I'd actually written, I said the argument that if a woman gets hit on, she must have been giving off vibes, was similar in form to the argument rapists have used that if they felt moved to rape a woman it was merely because they were responding to her "asking for it" - by "dressing provocatively" or "going out alone" or "drinking" or whatever. You know - blame the victim.

 

If you don't understand how an analogy works, I'll explain it - but I suspect your misunderstanding is willful.

[donnamaybe]

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong WIL, that he meant that when the same woman gets hit on over and over and over by MM, she is more likely than not giving off a vibe.

[OWoman]

That said, I also believe that seeing someone in their element, at work, is seeing them in a light in which you may never see your own spouse.

 

My H and his xW used to work at the same organisation. It was what led to their first separation - she expected him to suspend his professional and ethical judgment and take her side when she was facing disciplinary action for bullying a subordinate, which he in all conscience could not do. He could recognise that she was a tyrant at work, but couldn't recognise that in his home life at that point

 

I love seeing my H at work. I love the masterful way he conducts himself, and how the depth of his knowledge and insight permeates his slightest remark. And, of course, I love working with him

[woinlove]

I never claimed YOU were like a rapist. If you'd bothered to read what I'd actually written, I said the argument that if a woman gets hit on, she must have been giving off vibes, was similar in form to the argument rapists have used that if they felt moved to rape a woman it was merely because they were responding to her "asking for it" - by "dressing provocatively" or "going out alone" or "drinking" or whatever. You know - blame the victim.

 

If you don't understand how an analogy works, I'll explain it - but I suspect your misunderstanding is willful.

 

 

What argument? Did anyone (including you) give or even mention that argument? Heck, did anyone say "must" anything? I didn't. You didn't. Here's what you said "Giving off vibes" sounds to me like a different slant to the old "she was asking for it" line rapists use... No must there. And my earlier post on "vibes" talked about my own experience and the one you quoted explained more how I viewed my experience.

 

...speaking of willful...

[Ms. Red]

I've been thinking about this and your other post. I think workplace affairs go hand-in-hand with the "it just happened" excuse.

 

It doesn't "just happen" if people have strong boundaries. I think what donnamaybe was trying to say is that she is comfortable that her man has strong boundaries. Thus, she doesn't fear advances by OW regardless of where they occur.

 

Am I right?

 

(I haven't read past this post but had to respond.)

 

Yanno, you saying this and what Donna has said just seems to me like a slap in the face of a BS. Every spouse thinks they would never get cheated on. So they had nothing to fear just as Donna feels.

 

It's like flaunting in front of a BS that "my spouse is so great he/she has never and will never cheat on me." It's like a passive aggressive way of saying their (the BS's) marriage was inferior to theirs.

 

I learned a long time ago to Never say NEVER!

[OWoman]

What argument? Did anyone (including you) give or even mention that argument? Heck, did anyone say "must" anything? I didn't. You didn't. Here's what you said "Giving off vibes" sounds to me like a different slant to the old "she was asking for it" line rapists use... No must there. And my earlier post on "vibes" talked about my own experience and the one you quoted explained more how I viewed my experience.

 

...speaking of willful...

 

Here is just such an example of this argument:

 

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong WIL, that he meant that when the same woman gets hit on over and over and over by MM, she is more likely than not giving off a vibe.

[Ms. Red]

I agree with this and have done so in my M and when things stopped going well we made a joint choice to end the M. Neither of us had an A on each other.

 

But this kind of communication is rare, people do not seem to be so honest with their feelings, if they were there would not be so many A’s happening and it would not matter where they started.

 

Well, I had that kind of communication too and did have an A. Only difference is that I asked my H how he would feel about it and he gave me permission to go for it. He said he knew the difference between love and lust. I was purely in it for the sex and he knew that.

 

As far as the OP question. We met on-line. He was a friend of my H's through his on-line gaming group. It was kinda strange for me since I had gone 12 years in a monogamous marriage with my H. And then I was confiding in him about his friend I wanted to have an A with.

 

I don't know where I got it from but I have an internal code not to ever become involved with a co-worker. I could always envision the future after a breakup and how awkward that would be. So, even as a single gal, I never viewed co-workers as potential dates.

[donnamaybe]

(I haven't read past this post but had to respond.)

 

Yanno, you saying this and what Donna has said just seems to me like a slap in the face of a BS. Every spouse thinks they would never get cheated on. So they had nothing to fear just as Donna feels.

 

It's like flaunting in front of a BS that "my spouse is so great he/she has never and will never cheat on me." It's like a passive aggressive way of saying their (the BS's) marriage was inferior to theirs.

 

I learned a long time ago to Never say NEVER!

Sure. MUCH better to post, "I live in constant fear that my man is going to cheat on me, so I monitor where he goes, who he is with, and how long it takes him to get from point A to point B."

 

I was NOT insulting ANYONE. I was complimenting my man's integrity.

[donnamaybe]

Here is just such an example of this argument:

Here's the problem with your assumption that what woi and I were referring to could IN ANY REMOTE WAY be the same as claiming a rape victim instigated her own vicimization: Please note I said "the same woman getting hit on over and over by MM." Thus, there is a distinct pattern. There is no such pattern in your overly dramatized theory.

[jj33]

I am confused. What do vibes have to do with the fact that men hit on women at work? Whether a woman gives off vibes or not is not the point.

 

A man who is hitting on a woman (regardless of whether she gives out a vibe) is a man who will cheat. And even if a woman is giving out vibes, vibes are a far cry from kidnapping an MM and forcing him into an affair.

 

People talk all the time about owning consequences. If a person allows themself to get entangled in a work place affair, they need to own that not blame it on "vibes".

 

And I totally agree with OWoman, vibes is the same argument as she asked for it.

 

Its the suggestion that the woman's come hither or more seductive actions caused the man to act. It absolves the man of any responsibility for his actions. Woman as temptress.

 

The 2 actions are different (although I have heard some posters liken cheating to all sorts of violence on other threads) but the fact that the woman is being blamed for being seductive is the same in both cases.

 

Its a rationalization. My spouse would never have done that if she werent such a temptress.

 

The fact is people are human. They have affairs for all sorts of reasons. People spend a lot of time at work and many get most of their validation from work. So its not surprising that many affairs are born in the workplace.

[pureinheart]

Interesting notion... but I've observed that women who are involved, and exude a "loved up" vibe, are magnets to men, while many unattached women give off an air of desperation that sends men scarpering!

 

I've never given off an "available" vibe at work because I am, and always have been, completely unavailable to anyone I work with. But, because of my organisational roles and my visibility, I was very well known and because I kept my private life so private, there was inevitably a good deal of speculation. I did come in for some unwanted advances, despite stringent sexual harassment policies which declared even a single instance of unwanted attention to be harassment, despite projecting unavailability.

 

"Giving off vibes" sounds to me like a different slant to the old "she was asking for it" line rapists use...

 

LOL, I totally had to crack up...in my world "speculation"= gossip with the individuals I worked with. My life was actually boring, although my girlfriends and me were the topic of discussion most of the time.

 

I finally got tired of it and confronted one of the main gossipers (is that a word?) and ask that she back off.

Edited February 4, 2011 by pureinheart

[OWoman]

LOL, I totally had to crack up...in my world "speculation"= gossip with the individuals I worked with. My life was actually boring, although my girlfriends and me were the topic of discussion most of the time.

 

I preferred to schedule my one-on-one meetings with senior managers over coffee, in the more informal atmosphere of their departmental tea room or the local coffee shop, which they seemed to prefer too. But almost invariably someone would start a rumour (which I can understand - their jobs were unspeakably boring and feeding the grapevine is definitely preferable to forcing a stapler up your nostril to relieve the boredom) so that at one stage I was rumoured to be shagging pretty much the entire senior and top management layer Where did they think I found the time??? I guess we must have exchanged body fluids through the ether across the public venue in some kind of sci-fi dimension in a way that none of us remembered afterward, but perhaps it was just our contribution to improving the quality of life for those poor bored souls by keeping their underutilised brain cells alive.

[2themoon&back]

I believe in the vibes thing and I'll even go so far as to say that the vibes (the attraction) that xmm and I were sending out were of two broken people. I've often wondered what the attraction was about and I've came to this conclusion. I'll also say that it was something that wasn't obvious, a subconscious thing because he and I both danced around it for years before we even knew hardly anything at all about each other.

Looking back on it, it scares me to see it now for what it really was.

 

BTW......I must not be sending any vibes out at all now as it has been a long time since I've been approached, but yet I don't go to many places where I'm on the market.

I'm happy with that, right now.

 

 

 

I have just come to some of the same conclusions you have.

 

xMM and myself had a very strong and strange understanding of one another and I too wondered what that attraction was connected to, one of the main things I came up with was trauma that we both experienced as children.

Those feelings from the trauma have been carried with us throughout our lives and have never been understood by someone else how we were affected by it.

 

I have had to explain to others that I have been involved with why I may react or act to situations differently they would. It is exhausting always having to explain, because sometimes I did not know why, just knew how I felt.

 

With xMM, I did not have to explain, he seemed to already know and that is because he too had dealt or ( not dealt with ) RL trauma in his life and his tendencies to react or act seemed to mirror my own and this was so comforting and desirable to have in one’s life without the need to explain myself.

 

I only realized this when I was diagnosed with PTSD, and started to understand what that diagnoses meant to me and how I think and how I react in situations.

[jj33]

BB07 and 2the moon, I understand what you are saying and beleive that people can be on the same wavelength, but that is different than saying someone was giving a vibe that they were "up for it".

[pureinheart]

I preferred to schedule my one-on-one meetings with senior managers over coffee, in the more informal atmosphere of their departmental tea room or the local coffee shop, which they seemed to prefer too. But almost invariably someone would start a rumour (which I can understand - their jobs were unspeakably boring and feeding the grapevine is definitely preferable to forcing a stapler up your nostril to relieve the boredom) so that at one stage I was rumoured to be shagging pretty much the entire senior and top management layer Where did they think I found the time??? I guess we must have exchanged body fluids through the ether across the public venue in some kind of sci-fi dimension in a way that none of us remembered afterward, but perhaps it was just our contribution to improving the quality of life for those poor bored souls by keeping their underutilised brain cells alive.

 

ROFL:lmao::lmao: I have to tell you, my daughter thinks I am loosing it, this is the second time in the same day that one of your replies had me laughing extremely loud...she can't see me on the pc and thinks the History Channel has taken on a whole new dimension!

 

At least there was the possibility of brain activity, my company got screwed:lmao:.

[xxoo]

I am confused. What do vibes have to do with the fact that men hit on women at work? Whether a woman gives off vibes or not is not the point.

 

A man who is hitting on a woman (regardless of whether she gives out a vibe) is a man who will cheat. And even if a woman is giving out vibes, vibes are a far cry from kidnapping an MM and forcing him into an affair.

 

People talk all the time about owning consequences. If a person allows themself to get entangled in a work place affair, they need to own that not blame it on "vibes".

 

And I totally agree with OWoman, vibes is the same argument as she asked for it.

 

Its the suggestion that the woman's come hither or more seductive actions caused the man to act. It absolves the man of any responsibility for his actions. Woman as temptress.

 

The 2 actions are different (although I have heard some posters liken cheating to all sorts of violence on other threads) but the fact that the woman is being blamed for being seductive is the same in both cases.

 

Its a rationalization. My spouse would never have done that if she werent such a temptress.

 

The "vibes" have nothing to do with whether a man will cheat. It has only to do with which women the cheaters choose to approach when they are already looking to cheat.

 

As to OW's point earlier, yes, men are attracted to and want to be around women who are happily married and exude that "loved up" vibe. But, ime, they don't HIT ON those women, unless they are looking for humiliation and rejection.

[woinlove]

The "vibes" have nothing to do with whether a man will cheat. It has only to do with which women the cheaters choose to approach when they are already looking to cheat.

 

As to OW's point earlier, yes, men are attracted to and want to be around women who are happily married and exude that "loved up" vibe. But, ime, they don't HIT ON those women, unless they are looking for humiliation and rejection.

 

Excellent points, xxoo.

 

More generally on vibes -- I haven't read or kept track of all the posts, so perhaps I missed something. But the discussion of "vibes" was from a few women explaining how they deflected unwanted advances from men at work or how they later came to see they attracted a certain type of man and changed that. Perhaps one post suggested that women who get repeated unwanted attention might find others experiences useful, or something along those lines, if I recall. So, posters trying to refute some argument along the lines "she asked for it", seem to be fighting arguments only they themselves have put forward. Or did I miss something?

[alexandria35]

I think people do give off vibes, but I don't know why everyone is thinking it's all negative.

 

I have very strong boundaries regarding my behavior with men. So much so that when I'm involved in a serious relationship I start to question my attractiveness to the opposite sex. I mean when I'm in love with someone other guys completely stop hitting on me, but when a relationship ends and I'm ready to date again, there are suddenly men all around me. This all happens without the guys having any idea of what is going on in my personal life or my relationship status. I couldn't fiqure this out for the longest time and then I realized it was me. When I'm in a relationship there is an invisible wall up between myself and any men I come into contact with. This doesn't mean that I'm rude to men or that I run away from them, I just don't ever let things go in a certain direction. I keep conversations light and to the point. I don't share my personal life with them, there is no flirty joking around or physical gestures of any kind. If they attempt to flirt with me, I politely pretend not to pick up on it and stay focused on the purpose of our conversation. People naturally read other people and guys quickly understand that I am not emotionally available to them in any way.

 

Now when I'm single I don't go around in my most seductive clothes and blatantly show off that I'm available. I'm just more open to getting to know a man. I'll tell them more about myself, I'll ask them more about themselves. I smile and laugh more with them. I let things get more personal. However I learned a long time ago to never open myself up to a new man when I'm in pain because when a woman is needy, vulnerable or hurt she is going to attract the worst type of men possible. It doesn't mattter how self confidant and in control she is trying to "act". People subconciously read other people and see what is really there. If you want to attract truly healthy honest and mature people then you really have to be those things yourself or it won't work.

[MorningCoffee]

I think people do give off vibes, but I don't know why everyone is thinking it's all negative.

 

I have very strong boundaries regarding my behavior with men. So much so that when I'm involved in a serious relationship I start to question my attractiveness to the opposite sex. I mean when I'm in love with someone other guys completely stop hitting on me, but when a relationship ends and I'm ready to date again, there are suddenly men all around me. This all happens without the guys having any idea of what is going on in my personal life or my relationship status. I couldn't fiqure this out for the longest time and then I realized it was me. When I'm in a relationship there is an invisible wall up between myself and any men I come into contact with. This doesn't mean that I'm rude to men or that I run away from them, I just don't ever let things go in a certain direction. I keep conversations light and to the point. I don't share my personal life with them, there is no flirty joking around or physical gestures of any kind. If they attempt to flirt with me, I politely pretend not to pick up on it and stay focused on the purpose of our conversation. People naturally read other people and guys quickly understand that I am not emotionally available to them in any way.

 

Now when I'm single I don't go around in my most seductive clothes and blatantly show off that I'm available. I'm just more open to getting to know a man. I'll tell them more about myself, I'll ask them more about themselves. I smile and laugh more with them. I let things get more personal. However I learned a long time ago to never open myself up to a new man when I'm in pain because when a woman is needy, vulnerable or hurt she is going to attract the worst type of men possible. It doesn't mattter how self confidant and in control she is trying to "act". People subconciously read other people and see what is really there. If you want to attract truly healthy honest and mature people then you really have to be those things yourself or it won't work.

 

Thanks for describing so well the exact signals that allow a man to sense, consciously or not, whether to continue to approach. Very succinctly put.

 

IME, if a married woman gives out that second set, the more available signals, it takes very strong boundaries as to appropriate partners for a guy to return them with the "politely pretend not to pick up on it and stay focused on the purpose of our conversation" response.

 

Those of us with more permeable boundaries figure, "ah, what the hell" and go for it, "tell them more about myself, I'll ask them more about themselves. I smile and laugh more with them. I let things get more personal".

 

Well put, alexandria.

[OWoman]

I think people do give off vibes, but I don't know why everyone is thinking it's all negative.

 

I have very strong boundaries regarding my behavior with men. So much so that when I'm involved in a serious relationship I start to question my attractiveness to the opposite sex. I mean when I'm in love with someone other guys completely stop hitting on me, but when a relationship ends and I'm ready to date again, there are suddenly men all around me. This all happens without the guys having any idea of what is going on in my personal life or my relationship status. I couldn't fiqure this out for the longest time and then I realized it was me. When I'm in a relationship there is an invisible wall up between myself and any men I come into contact with. This doesn't mean that I'm rude to men or that I run away from them, I just don't ever let things go in a certain direction. I keep conversations light and to the point. I don't share my personal life with them, there is no flirty joking around or physical gestures of any kind. If they attempt to flirt with me, I politely pretend not to pick up on it and stay focused on the purpose of our conversation. People naturally read other people and guys quickly understand that I am not emotionally available to them in any way.

 

Now when I'm single I don't go around in my most seductive clothes and blatantly show off that I'm available. I'm just more open to getting to know a man. I'll tell them more about myself, I'll ask them more about themselves. I smile and laugh more with them. I let things get more personal. However I learned a long time ago to never open myself up to a new man when I'm in pain because when a woman is needy, vulnerable or hurt she is going to attract the worst type of men possible. It doesn't mattter how self confidant and in control she is trying to "act". People subconciously read other people and see what is really there. If you want to attract truly healthy honest and mature people then you really have to be those things yourself or it won't work.

 

People have different styles. I tend to keep people at arms' length until we are friends; yet I'm very close to my friends, both M and F, and we can talk about anything and everything (and do). Yet my M friends - with whom I may be discussing intimate matters - are not the ones who are likely to hit on me (they know the consequences ); it's the "at arms' length" guys who don't know me from a bar of soap that are likely to try that (once! a guy who hits on me is dead meat) even though - or possibly because - I don't let them anywhere close. If a stand-offish (or downright hostile) vibe is a come-on, fair enough... but I've certainly never signalled availability before a man has hit on me - whether I've been single or otherwise occupied.