What is the role of social status in an A?

[pureinheart]

I have often wondered this as well. My BF who has cheated in the past - several times - has a very high level, high status job and is very well known. I am *not* being cruel when I say this, but he is not the best looking guy in the world. Don't get me wrong, he is very attractive to me or I wouldn't be with him, but he is not a guy most women would stop to look twice at. But there are never a shortage of women who go after him. And, obviously, as mentioned, he has strayed in the past. My point is, I do think that the women who come after him (sometimes very blatantly like when I am standing across the room at a cocktail party or dinner) wouldn't have an interest if they didn't know he had money and status. I could be wrong though.

 

Ironically, I truly could not care less about material things, and all that crap. When we first started dating he bought me a LV bag and I made him give it to his mom. I see no need to be carrying a bag worth more than my car LOL... I do think that many women would want to be with him for financial reasons or to further their own career or because they would find it a turn on that someone considered important in his line of work would find time for them.

 

Once again, I could be way off base here. I can only speak for what I have seen and what I know of some of the women he either cheated with or women who have pursued him.

 

Hi Rose, another option could be that he has a dynamic personality. ExSO (former exDM) was a people person and did have money but never showed it. He was funny and just attracted people. I'll never forget, we were in a store and he screamed, "will you marry me"...I said, "nope", he kept asking and a fairly attractive girl said, "I will" and followed him (I think she was serious) and kept saying she would...he got really paranoid and said to the girl, "no, she has to marry me, she promised"....that totally freaked him out...hummmm some serial cheater....

Edited February 5, 2011 by pureinheart

[Heather1]

I'll raise my hand to this one, xOM owns my city - or his family does. Honestly though, he's so friggin handsome I'm not quite sure if that would have mattered to me, but I don't know? Hardly anyone knows we even know each other, besides his friends & employee's who seem to love me. None of my friends know, because I'm afraid they'll start asking me for favors. So yeah, I shot for the moon I guess??

 

I live in an area where there are drop dead gorgeous women everywhere, lots of surgery, perfectly dressed, etc. I'm a total tomboy who wears shorts & tee shirts & ponytails. I'm pretty athletic though, hardly any makeup. I think his attraction to me was just that I adored him, not really my looks.

 

My H is very successful too, and so are all of our friends we grew up w/. We have a great social circle when we're in our hometown. xOM's social circle is odd, none are "peers." He pays for everything (except for w/ me). I found that odd. I also wonder how successful he's be if it wasn't for his family? My H's from a very wealthy family too, but we've never taken a dime from them. My H is totally self made, extremely intelligent & we're both financially conservative. Plus we hang w/ peers. Interesting topic, I never really thought my type was top of the heap, but I for sure have a type. Not a gold digger, just don't think that much about money really.

 

Oh! Seren, I just want to comment that you should never do what isn't true to yourself no matter what. Staying home wouldn't have been true to yourself. I think it's very cool you accomplished a lot & you'll never regret that. I agree men have fragile ego's, but never apologize for being successful!! I'm jealous!!

[seren]

I have found this a very interesting thread and has resulted a reflection of my thoughts. I come from a very working class area, no one is expected to achieve success, professionally or academicaly Both my brother and I are high achievers, so go against the norm, we are both also known for our work with and for the local community. H was the person who encouraged me to go to University later in life, who supported all my choices and who would sing my praises from the rooftops. He was/is so very proud of all I have achieved - yet, I also knew that at times he would say that he wasn't good enough, wasn't clever enough or that he could provide enough of an intellectual challenge for me. I felt that my capability sometimes emasculated him, he said not, but I admit to pretending I didn't know how to fix something so he could do it. He also said that I never looked to him, to sort any problems out, I didn't as I thought to take all the burdens off his shoulders, given the stress of his job.

 

To be honest, at times I wanted to be pink and fluffy, but it was quicker and easier to do things myself and any problems, I faced head on, H is more a conflict avoider. So, when he was being all weird during his A, I put it down to stress. When I knew who the OW was, it struck me that we were complete opposites. I had always imagined if I had an A, it would be for love, so the idea he could love my complete opposite caused me to look at what was wrong with me. This was initially, after the big discussions I realised it was what was wrong with him. Him feeling not good enough was a huge factor, PTSD after Iraq another, all to do with not feeling good enough and esteem plus, I am sure, he had fun too. The A was not based on sex as it happened very rarely.

 

The OW was married to a right a*** she saw my H as an escape and different to the men she usually met (all from her) for months the not good enough feelings transferred to me. I spent ages looking at what I could have done differently, how I needed to change. H has made some disparaging remarks about OW's intelligence, which makes me so angry, I don't allow it. It shouldn't be important, and I am sorry, but it is, I even thought that she wore polyester and cheap shoes how godawful shallow that was - I don't pretend to being rational then, I also felt ashamed at who he had the A with and felt it reflected on me, as in if he could have an A with her, then what did that say about me. I know it all sounds very introspective and doesn't make me feel good about myself knowing I allowed his actions to make me feel like this. But it was what it was.

 

I think he didn't so much affair down as meet someone who was uncomplicated. I also think that with her, he was Alpha, with me, not so. he has said, oh she was typical of people from X, which makes me mad as hell as I am from X and dammed proud of it. Hmm still much to reflect upon as I am going way off thread... again.

[OWoman]

I also felt ashamed at who he had the A with and felt it reflected on me, as in if he could have an A with her, then what did that say about me.

 

This makes sense for me. I think this would matter to me if my H were to have an A - it would matter enormously to me if he were to "affair down", because I would see that as a reflection of myself somehow. That if he really thought that that was what he was worth... did the fact that I was choosing to be with him put me in that same category too?

 

I guess for me it resonates because of his xW: his self-esteem and self-worth was totally shattered through decades of abuse and he really did think that she was all that he was worth. It took a great deal of hard work in IC for him to see himself accurately in a mirror, and to recognise his own attractiveness. I don't do mercy sex, and he knows I wouldn't shag him if I didn't consider him worthy of me... and so if his self-esteem did slip, and he did land up with another dog, I suspect I would take that very badly.

[lovingwhatis]

I'll raise my hand to this one, xOM owns my city - or his family does. Honestly though, he's so friggin handsome I'm not quite sure if that would have mattered to me, but I don't know? Hardly anyone knows we even know each other, besides his friends & employee's who seem to love me. None of my friends know, because I'm afraid they'll start asking me for favors. So yeah, I shot for the moon I guess??

 

I live in an area where there are drop dead gorgeous women everywhere, lots of surgery, perfectly dressed, etc. I'm a total tomboy who wears shorts & tee shirts & ponytails. I'm pretty athletic though, hardly any makeup. I think his attraction to me was just that I adored him, not really my looks.

 

My H is very successful too, and so are all of our friends we grew up w/. We have a great social circle when we're in our hometown. xOM's social circle is odd, none are "peers." He pays for everything (except for w/ me). I found that odd. I also wonder how successful he's be if it wasn't for his family? My H's from a very wealthy family too, but we've never taken a dime from them. My H is totally self made, extremely intelligent & we're both financially conservative. Plus we hang w/ peers. Interesting topic, I never really thought my type was top of the heap, but I for sure have a type. Not a gold digger, just don't think that much about money really.

 

Oh! Seren, I just want to comment that you should never do what isn't true to yourself no matter what. Staying home wouldn't have been true to yourself. I think it's very cool you accomplished a lot & you'll never regret that. I agree men have fragile ego's, but never apologize for being successful!! I'm jealous!!

 

Heather, thanks for that interesting response, it is thought provoking!

 

That's great that you weren't that impressed with xMM's status or money. Sounds like you appealed to him because you weren't a gold digger. The way you describe him though, he sounds like someone very conscious of status, and it is rather unfortunate that as you say "he has to pay for everything". That's a hard way to live.. Did he ever (maybe initially) doubt your motives?

 

It also sounds a bit contradictory that you say that you adored him, yet are a bit curious if he would be successful if he wasn't from the family he's from. I mean, he probably wonders that himself... I have couple of rich friends who insist on having their children work entry level jobs to keep them grounded. The kids Are indeed grounded, and have an appreciation for hard earned money.

 

I am with you on what you said to Seren. Why do you say that you are jealous of her? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to..

 

Thanks again.

[Rose1977]

Hi Rose, another option could be that he has a dynamic personality. ExSO (former exDM) was a people person and did have money but never showed it. He was funny and just attracted people. I'll never forget, we were in a store and he screamed, "will you marry me"...I said, "nope", he kept asking and a fairly attractive girl said, "I will" and followed him (I think she was serious) and kept saying she would...he got really paranoid and said to the girl, "no, she has to marry me, she promised"....that totally freaked him out...hummmm some serial cheater....

 

Pure, I actually think it might be kind of the opposite. He is rather serious most of the time and doesn't always show a lot of emotion. That's his personality. I am outgoing, laughing, making jokes all the time. We are polar opposites but it works in a way that it brings out the best in both of us. I think for some women, it's a challenge to get him to open up. He seems completely uninterested even when he is interested, so I think they like the chase or something. Or it's the money and status, who knows? I've known him since we were 5, so our situation was a bit diifferent getting to know each other. He threw up on me on the school bus in Kindergarten, so I guess that kind of broke the ice

[lovingwhatis]

Seren, I so appreciate this discussion that we've been having and your very open, honest, graceful responses! What a gift you have to be compassionate to others and see their points of view! Are you at all interested in eastern philosophy?

 

This thread has been very thought provoking for me too, and I am grateful to all the women on here who are so willing to share their inner most thoughts and feelings. I have discussed it with my best friend as well, and the discussions unearthed some of my repressed ambitions. Now that I am looking at them, I feel a release from hand-me-down views I've carried for years.

 

Couple of things from your post really stood out. Your husband has been so supportive of you, yet he seems to partly have projected his own desires for success onto you. That reminds me of the way a parent would receive satisfaction from a child's successes that eluded the parent. I can see how that can turn into a resentment down the road. You certainly didn't ask for his total support, he gave it to you, yet it sounds like he could have used some self-support as well. But parental lack of encouragement can result in great self-doubts, and maybe he suffered from that. I cannot imagine how stressful PTSD is from a war situation.. Saw an excellent movie last night, Brothers, about a brother that returns home and completely projects his inability to cope onto his loved ones.. Heartbreaking..

 

What you share about your feelings towards OW in the midst of your grief is nothing short of courageous. Have you always been so deeply honest with yourself? I try to do that as well, though the blind spots are hard to look at for obvious reasons. This whole topic I feel has been a blind spot.

 

One curiosity I have is, why do you think he made these disparaging remarks about her? Was it out of guilt or somehow trying to make you feel better by putting her down? The bold below is understandably not an easy thing to put in perspective. When you say she is your complete opposite, do you mean personality/looks wise? I've heard these statements about AP choosing someone opposite to their spouse and why that is. I am glad you realized in time that the answer to this situation was not to think that what you are is somehow not good. That's the hurt ego talking.

 

And lastly, your comment about tackling things head on vs being conflict avoidant. That's exactly the topic I have been pondering for a day, there was a radio show that asked women whether they prefer someone to rip the band-aid during a breakup or to slowly ease into it by detaching and avoiding contact. I am a total "rip the band-aid" woman, and I actually "rip the band-aid" myself, and have been baffled by people who cannot make that step. You sound like a "rip the band-aid" woman too, yet you also have patience and wisdom to work through a betrayal of a spouse and come on the other side. I would have taken a different road than you(or at least I think I would have). I know that tackling issues head on is a bit different than the example I gave, but I would love to hear your view on this.

 

 

 

 

I have found this a very interesting thread and has resulted a reflection of my thoughts. I come from a very working class area, no one is expected to achieve success, professionally or academicaly Both my brother and I are high achievers, so go against the norm, we are both also known for our work with and for the local community. H was the person who encouraged me to go to University later in life, who supported all my choices and who would sing my praises from the rooftops. He was/is so very proud of all I have achieved - yet, I also knew that at times he would say that he wasn't good enough, wasn't clever enough or that he could provide enough of an intellectual challenge for me. I felt that my capability sometimes emasculated him, he said not, but I admit to pretending I didn't know how to fix something so he could do it. He also said that I never looked to him, to sort any problems out, I didn't as I thought to take all the burdens off his shoulders, given the stress of his job.

 

To be honest, at times I wanted to be pink and fluffy, but it was quicker and easier to do things myself and any problems, I faced head on, H is more a conflict avoider. So, when he was being all weird during his A, I put it down to stress. When I knew who the OW was, it struck me that we were complete opposites. I had always imagined if I had an A, it would be for love, so the idea he could love my complete opposite caused me to look at what was wrong with me. This was initially, after the big discussions I realised it was what was wrong with him. Him feeling not good enough was a huge factor, PTSD after Iraq another, all to do with not feeling good enough and esteem plus, I am sure, he had fun too. The A was not based on sex as it happened very rarely.

 

The OW was married to a right a*** she saw my H as an escape and different to the men she usually met (all from her) for months the not good enough feelings transferred to me. I spent ages looking at what I could have done differently, how I needed to change. H has made some disparaging remarks about OW's intelligence, which makes me so angry, I don't allow it. It shouldn't be important, and I am sorry, but it is, I even thought that she wore polyester and cheap shoes how godawful shallow that was - I don't pretend to being rational then, I also felt ashamed at who he had the A with and felt it reflected on me, as in if he could have an A with her, then what did that say about me. I know it all sounds very introspective and doesn't make me feel good about myself knowing I allowed his actions to make me feel like this. But it was what it was.

 

I think he didn't so much affair down as meet someone who was uncomplicated. I also think that with her, he was Alpha, with me, not so. he has said, oh she was typical of people from X, which makes me mad as hell as I am from X and dammed proud of it. Hmm still much to reflect upon as I am going way off thread... again.

[lovingwhatis]

Pure, I actually think it might be kind of the opposite. He is rather serious most of the time and doesn't always show a lot of emotion. That's his personality. I am outgoing, laughing, making jokes all the time. We are polar opposites but it works in a way that it brings out the best in both of us. I think for some women, it's a challenge to get him to open up. He seems completely uninterested even when he is interested, so I think they like the chase or something. Or it's the money and status, who knows? I've known him since we were 5, so our situation was a bit diifferent getting to know each other. He threw up on me on the school bus in Kindergarten, so I guess that kind of broke the ice

 

LOL Rose! You are one forgiving woman! Sounds like your situation with him is a bit different. Did he have a crush on you throughout the years? Did you also date when you were younger?

[Rose1977]

LOL Rose! You are one forgiving woman! Sounds like your situation with him is a bit different. Did he have a crush on you throughout the years? Did you also date when you were younger?

 

 

No we never dated when younger. He did have a crush on me, but I had no idea. On our first date he put some cheesy love song from the 80's on his ipod on in the car and asked me if I remembered the song. I said of course, and he said, no, not the song, that you and me danced to this song at a dance in 5th grade. Weird, isn't it? I never did get back at him for throwing up on me, perhaps I will repay the favor during morning sickness LOL (no I'm not pregnant).

[Owl]

Hmmmm....would a "high status man" demonstrate the social/emotional characteristics that make him attractive to more women?

 

In other words...a "high social status man" tends to have to be witty, charming, intelligent, successful, etc...because that's (theoretically at least) attributes that he likely needed in order to attain his position.

 

So men in that kind of social strata display the traits that women find attractive...notsomuch that they are directly attracted to his actual status, but the apparent personality required to attain said status.

 

This kind of ties into another thought as well...women are often attracted to men who display "alpha" characteristics...such as military, police, firefighters, etc...men who are accustomed to authority.

 

Thoughts?

[lovingwhatis]

No we never dated when younger. He did have a crush on me, but I had no idea. On our first date he put some cheesy love song from the 80's on his ipod on in the car and asked me if I remembered the song. I said of course, and he said, no, not the song, that you and me danced to this song at a dance in 5th grade. Weird, isn't it? I never did get back at him for throwing up on me, perhaps I will repay the favor during morning sickness LOL (no I'm not pregnant).

 

LOL, I am sure he'll be thrilled.

 

Him having a crush on you for a while does give a bit of insight into your relationship. Maybe all these years you were the motivation for his success? It's a bit romantic. Some men seem to think that their success can finally make them worthy of love.. A caricature example of this is in the Social Network movie, have you seen it?

[lovingwhatis]

Hmmmm....would a "high status man" demonstrate the social/emotional characteristics that make him attractive to more women?

 

In other words...a "high social status man" tends to have to be witty, charming, intelligent, successful, etc...because that's (theoretically at least) attributes that he likely needed in order to attain his position.

 

So men in that kind of social strata display the traits that women find attractive...notsomuch that they are directly attracted to his actual status, but the apparent personality required to attain said status.

 

This kind of ties into another thought as well...women are often attracted to men who display "alpha" characteristics...such as military, police, firefighters, etc...men who are accustomed to authority.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hmmm, I can see what you mean, Owl. In my eyes, it is not so simple, I feel that with those "socially awarded" traits come the shadow traits such as overachieving, glibness, calculating, and they are not exactly attractive to me.. The one trait that I have to say has been very attractive to me in the past is high intelligence (if coupled with originality). But if that intelligence becomes someone's emotional prison(over-thinking that which cannot be explained through logic), I tend to empathize with them and see them as limited by their own intelligence.

 

If a man or woman is balanced in emotions and highly intelligent as well, then they truly have a winning combination.

[seren]

Hi, I will try to answer your questions honestly.

 

Seren, I so appreciate this discussion that we've been having and your very open, honest, graceful responses! What a gift you have to be compassionate to others and see their points of view! Are you at all interested in eastern philosophy?

No, I was brought up a Quaker/Unitarian, but admit to having no religous views, per se. However, the do no harm and being the best person you can be, mantra has stayed with me, always. Yes I always try to look at things from all points of view, I may not always agree with others and am pretty rigid in my own moral compass, but understand that others have their own boat to row.

 

What you share about your feelings towards OW in the midst of your grief is nothing short of courageous. Have you always been so deeply honest with yourself? I try to do that as well, though the blind spots are hard to look at for obvious reasons.

 

Again, yes, I am brutally honest with myself to the point of cutting my nose of to spite my face. I wish I wasn't so, but it is who I am. I was taught that if you are wrong, you admit it, if you are right, you stand by your 'rightness' and take whatever is thrown at you, but you never, ever run away. On D Day, my first thought was that my H was hurt and in bits, I knew that I would cope, but wasn't sure he would. I also heard from OW and felt for her hurt. I am no saint, just a total realist, s*** happens, we have to deal with it, it just doesn't go away on its own.

 

One curiosity I have is, why do you think he made these disparaging remarks about her? Was it out of guilt or somehow trying to make you feel better by putting her down? The bold below is understandably not an easy thing to put in perspective. When you say she is your complete opposite, do you mean personality/looks wise?

 

Ahh, how to say this without hurting others, being aware what board I am on. The truth is, once the A was out in the open, H saw it for what it was and saw OW as enabling him to hurt me and our marriage. (Not my words or view), I put the blame (?) where it belongs, with my H. But yes she enabled. I think he felt disgust at himself and the whole A, understand that he had pretty awful PTSD, friends killed, him being powerless etc. This made him feel disgusted with who he was, he, once he had told me about the A, felt disgust at himself and OW. Sorry, this sounds harsh, it is, and I do not allow the disparaging of another woman, OW or no and H and I had some pretty heated discussions about this.

 

When I say that I imagined an A for love, I knew/know that had H loved her, he would have left, I would have helped him to and I would have helped us to sort our stuff out. I get A's for love, I don't get the one's that drag on or where love isn't a factor. No I don't think OW was any worse looking than me, just different. OW is dark haired, I am a redhead, OW dresses differently to me, intelectually we are different, our jobs are different. I was a professional, she not. I like our dogs, country walks, good wine, being wooed, OW was more a party woman, not that I don't enjoy a good party, but no, she was nothing like me. I suppose I can be a challenge, she uncomplicated, possibly that was the attraction. All I know is that H said he felt he wasn't good enough for me, silly man, he has always been just right for me.

 

As for the Band Aid, I am a rip the end off type. Get it over with, grit your teeth, deal with the pain and then let it open to heal. So much cleaner, quicker and once off, it's off. The easing off just wastes time for what will be painful anyway.

 

Thanks for an interesting topic.

[jj33]

Hmmmm....would a "high status man" demonstrate the social/emotional characteristics that make him attractive to more women?

 

In other words...a "high social status man" tends to have to be witty, charming, intelligent, successful, etc...because that's (theoretically at least) attributes that he likely needed in order to attain his position.

 

So men in that kind of social strata display the traits that women find attractive...notsomuch that they are directly attracted to his actual status, but the apparent personality required to attain said status.

 

This kind of ties into another thought as well...women are often attracted to men who display "alpha" characteristics...such as military, police, firefighters, etc...men who are accustomed to authority.

 

Thoughts?

 

Excellent insight Owl. Sloppy, dull, boring, ignorant and lazy doesnt usually go over as well with the ladies tho they say there is a pot for every lid.

[seren]

Hmm, Alpha men, nope they do nothing for me at all. My H is in the military, and in his area of work, he is Mr Alpha Male, but at home, not. His gentleness and laugh won me over, my capability and intelligence were attractions for him, but mainly, he says, because I am silly. i think any man who is attentive, listens and will communicate his thoughts is a greater attraction to women than power and Alpha traits. But, I may be wrong. In my field and work I am Alpha person, but am happy to not be too much at home, not many men get along with the Alpha person being a female, IMHO.

Edited February 8, 2011 by seren
clarity

[Heather1]

Heather, thanks for that interesting response, it is thought provoking!

 

That's great that you weren't that impressed with xMM's status or money. Sounds like you appealed to him because you weren't a gold digger. The way you describe him though, he sounds like someone very conscious of status, and it is rather unfortunate that as you say "he has to pay for everything". That's a hard way to live.. Did he ever (maybe initially) doubt your motives?

 

It also sounds a bit contradictory that you say that you adored him, yet are a bit curious if he would be successful if he wasn't from the family he's from. I mean, he probably wonders that himself... I have couple of rich friends who insist on having their children work entry level jobs to keep them grounded. The kids Are indeed grounded, and have an appreciation for hard earned money.

 

I am with you on what you said to Seren. Why do you say that you are jealous of her? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to..

 

Thanks again.

 

I just think it's great she was able to achieve her goals, I'm just starting & I'm 48! We focused on my H businesses so I took care of everything at home so he could be successful & not have to worry about it. It's backfiring now though. I just wish it was my wishes being supported. We're working on it, I'm in a training now for a job I'm not sure if I'm too old for or not? We'll see....My advantage is that I'm a woman & at my age I'm not going to get pregnant & take a maternity leave or family leave anymore. My kids are almost grown.

 

As for xOM questioning me for my financial motives, I don't think so? There's no way now he could think I want him for his $$$, I do think he put me through some test to see what I'd do if he didn't spend a dime on me. What he didn't know is that he failed MY test. He had a great job & made a very decent salary on his own. His families business just is an offer that he couldn't really pass by & it's an enormous salary. He would have still been wealthy @ his former career.

 

I just thought he had a killer smile

 

Too much water under the bridge though. We've been in NC/LC/NC since Nov., no drama, I was just done. Shot him an email in Dec. saying I missed him & he said "thanks." Got the hint, BIG TIME!! Told him I'd contact him when I finish my training in a few months & dreading valentines day. It would be harder knowing we're in LC though & not hearing from him that day than in NC. I know how he feels about me now.

[BB07]

Seren:

Ahh, how to say this without hurting others, being aware what board I am on. The truth is, once the A was out in the open, H saw it for what it was and saw OW as enabling him to hurt me and our marriage. (Not my words or view), I put the blame (?) where it belongs, with my H. But yes she enabled. I think he felt disgust at himself and the whole A, understand that he had pretty awful PTSD, friends killed, him being powerless etc. This made him feel disgusted with who he was, he, once he had told me about the A, felt disgust at himself and OW. Sorry, this sounds harsh, it is, and I do not allow the disparaging of another woman, OW or no and H and I had some pretty heated discussions about this.

 

Hope you don't mind if I jump in and speak to the above.

I was thinking today about how affairs enable disrespect all the way around to the BS, the AP, and the OW. Disclaimer, of course this assumes that someone if not all parties believe affairs are wrong. The lying, the sneaking around. There is no respect in any of it and OW has to know this on some level or she is sticking her head so far in the sand that she'll never get out. Assuming that OW isn't so deep in the sand, she excuses him for this behavior because she has to in some manner to make it somewhat palatable in her own mind as to how she can do that to another woman. She either takes what he said that is disparaging about his wife as truth or if he doesn't say anything much, she convinces herself that well there has to be something really wrong with the marriage or the wife or else he wouldn't be doing this, or........she tells herself that it's a case of some great love that was meant to be but yet they found each other at the wrong time but yet they can get there from here. See the OW has to fool and sometimes lie to herself in order to go against something that was ingrained in her that is wrong. So OW enables.

 

Another time we can discuss how affairs enable mm to stay married, that is if they don't get caught.

[jj33]

Another time we can discuss how affairs enable mm to stay married, that is if they don't get caught.

 

Actually BB that was very relevant to my A. If MM had divorced he would have lost a large part of his social status. So by being in an A he was able to preserve his social status and still have a relationship as he and his W dont really have one other than as a public facade (and for those who dont know my story I have lots of independent confirmation of that fact that I wont be sharing on a public board).

 

So As can help men stay married if there are benefits in this case social status that they gain from keeping the marriage that they dont want to give up just because they are unhappy with the W.

[BB07]

Actually BB that was very relevant to my A. If MM had divorced he would have lost a large part of his social status. So by being in an A he was able to preserve his social status and still have a relationship as he and his W dont really have one other than as a public facade (and for those who dont know my story I have lots of independent confirmation of that fact that I wont be sharing on a public board).

 

So As can help men stay married if there are benefits in this case social status that they gain from keeping the marriage that they dont want to give up just because they are unhappy with the W.

 

Oh I can so see it! If the mm wants to stay married for whatever reason and assuming he doesn't get caught and have the possibility of a angry BS throwing him out, an affair can certainly be enabling. He gets many of his needs met from the OW. Icing on top of the cake so to speak.

 

Excitement, escape from boredom, ego strokes, feeling like he is loved, good company and most men like it that they get to call the shots as to when and where they will see the OW (Makes them feel more in control) and they always have the ready excuses built in when they can't show up when OW calls because they are married, ya know. Sex and well we all know how hot the sex can be in the beginning stages. On every level he gets a distraction from his sometimes boring other life. If the mm has no big qualms about causing other people pain or puts his needs before others, it's a good set up for him and if the OW hangs on, not understanding the reality of the situation, she enables him to keep having his cake and the icing too.

[OWoman]

This kind of ties into another thought as well...women are often attracted to men who display "alpha" characteristics...such as military, police, firefighters, etc...men who are accustomed to authority.

 

Thoughts?

 

Owl, that would only apply to the general, admiral, police chief etc, because the other guys are not alpha but beta. or even omega. If you want an alpha male, you want the guy who's used to GIVING the orders - not unquestioningly carrying out the orders of others!

 

I'm an "alpha female" and I'm attracted to "alpha males" - but men in uniform don't do it for me for exactly that reason! I don't want someone who does what he's told - I want the guy who's doing the telling!

[Owl]

Owl, that would only apply to the general, admiral, police chief etc, because the other guys are not alpha but beta. or even omega. If you want an alpha male, you want the guy who's used to GIVING the orders - not unquestioningly carrying out the orders of others!

 

I'm an "alpha female" and I'm attracted to "alpha males" - but men in uniform don't do it for me for exactly that reason! I don't want someone who does what he's told - I want the guy who's doing the telling!

 

All of which supports at least the rest of my previous post.

 

And I understand your thoughts on guys "taking" orders. The difference there is perception.

 

For most people they view uniformed men as authority figures from whom others have to take orders...they don't take into account that there's a chain of command.

 

Your description of the men who "give orders" falls short tho...because even they have to take orders from someone else. A general reports to higher generals, who in turn report to their chief of staff, who reports up to....you get the picture. Even a CEO has to report to oversight committees, etc...

 

The only guy who doesn't report to anyone is the asocial hermit living alone in the wilderness...or a ruthless dictator who rules solely by force and fear. I'm thinking this isn't the kind of guy you're looking for tho...LOL!

[Heather1]

Men in uniform don't do it for me @ all. Successful business owners, CEO's & professional athletes are my downfall (that I don't act on).

 

I don't ever pursue these men, even xOM I didn't pursue at all. He caught me off guard.

 

The problem w/ these men is that they'll be the first to throw you under the bus. I think about that a lot too, about a dday for xOM & I & what that would look like. He'd come out OK, doubtful his W would divorce him because he supports her whole family. No matter what, I'd look like a gold digger & would take the biggest fall.

[OWoman]

All of which supports at least the rest of my previous post.

 

And I understand your thoughts on guys "taking" orders. The difference there is perception.

 

For most people they view uniformed men as authority figures from whom others have to take orders...they don't take into account that there's a chain of command.

 

Your description of the men who "give orders" falls short tho...because even they have to take orders from someone else. A general reports to higher generals, who in turn report to their chief of staff, who reports up to....you get the picture. Even a CEO has to report to oversight committees, etc...

 

Yep - though the general (I don't know anything about US military structures, I was picturing the army I know, which is headed by a general) or the admiral, etc typically report to a high-level bureaucrat who reports to a Minister of Defence - neither of which have the on-the-ground insight required for the general / admiral's job, so the "orders" they give are broader policy directives, which the general / admiral translates into actual commands to relay on, rather than the detailed instructions themselves.

 

It's the kind of management I was accustomed to in my previous position - I reported to someone who chaired a committee and lacked any professional insight into my area of operation. I was the professional "expert"; their role was to assure themselves that my strategy was in line with overall organisational strategy, that my budget was adequate and that my line staff were happy with my management of them and the area. There was no direct oversight or micromanagement. I kept them informed and reported by exception; they motivated for additional resources if I required them. Not everyone "takes orders" in the sense that a corporal does.

 

The only guy who doesn't report to anyone is the asocial hermit living alone in the wilderness...or a ruthless dictator who rules solely by force and fear. I'm thinking this isn't the kind of guy you're looking for tho...LOL!

 

OTC... "reporting to" and "taking orders from" are two different things entirely! In my current role, I "report to" funders in that I write up a report on what I've done with the money they've given me. They don't give me orders - I design the project, write up the proposal and draw up the budget - and if they like it, they give me the money. If they don't, I submit it elsewhere. If it gets funded, I do what I said I would - so I take my orders from myself. If I don't do what I said I would, I would blot my copybook and would likely not receive any further funding from that funder - or possibly any other, depending on how badly I blotted it - but that would simply be breach of contract, rather than insubordination or failure to carry out a reasonable instruction. It's a very different scenario.

[OWoman]

Men in uniform don't do it for me @ all. Successful business owners, CEO's & professional athletes are my downfall (that I don't act on).

 

 

Nah - all those steroids affect their performance between the sheets...

[jj33]

Nah - all those steroids affect their performance between the sheets...

 

And the ones who arent on steroids are lazy between the sheets - they think they got it goin' on;)