Through the Separation Jungle

[worldgonewrong]

Question: so if BOTH parties (dumpee and dumper) go 180/NC/LC on each other, it essentially means the relationship is f*cked, right?

[Yasuandio]

WGW, it is not black and white. It is just not that simple. Certainly doesn't automatically indicate slam-dunk, your f_cked.

 

180 x 2 could mean all sorts of things (we know why you are doing it, that's half the story). However, the question remains, why might she be practicing something that looks like a 180? Here are only a few alternate random guesses to demonstrate to you how right or wrong you may be in your presumption: Depression, MLC, an OM, OW, illness, reading the same book, applying the same strategy, subborness, early pre-menapausal symptoms, regrets, trouble or pressures at work, a tramatic experience that ocurred you are unaware of, sexual harrasment, broke the law (shoplifting, hit and run, DUI, speeding, wreckless driving, whatever), living and preoccupied with fear, etc.

 

Your wife has not asked for divorce, so she is sitting on the fence. Your on one side, something else may be on the other. You were being quite accomodating in allowing her the "space" to explore latter.

 

I think you would be wise indeed to invest in system suggested by Ballerfamily. I think you may be in for at best a surprise, and at worst, a rude awakening. I certainly hope I am wrong. But under the curcumstances, better safe than sorry.

 

It's time you (covertly) look a bit deeper into this whatever this issue happens to be. If an OM does not turn up, or does turn up, then you will know. It's best for your psyche to move on if there is an OM, and too, start recon before it goes any further, if that is your desire.

 

Forget her ambivalance. It is not just YOU she's just left hanging in limbo!

 

Trying to help, C

Edited April 8, 2011 by Yasuandio

[worldgonewrong]

It is not just YOU she's just left hanging in limbo!

 

I...don't know what that means.

 

As for the cheating thing you suggest: No, she's not.

There are so many mutual friends' eyes & ears on her, I'd know in a heartbeat. It's not a matter of just "I trust her"; it's a matter of having a very entrenched mutual social network of dear friends that would make any indiscretion rise to the surface.

[Yasuandio]

I...don't know what that means.

 

As for the cheating thing you suggest: No, she's not.

There are so many mutual friends' eyes & ears on her, I'd know in a heartbeat. It's not a matter of just "I trust her"; it's a matter of having a very entrenched mutual social network of dear friends that would make any indiscretion rise to the surface.

 

I am sorry I was not clearer on who I meant by "others in limbo besides you and your wife," which I'll list in order of importance.

 

Firstly your child may be wondering if or when Daddy is coming home. Secondly, both sets of your parents, brothers, sisters, may be worried about the future of your family too - as this certainly is not what anyone was imagining would happen, right? Thirdly, of course, your friends, especially mutual friends are in a holding pattern too (probably confused about what if anything to do). I mean, I'm even concerned about the effects of this limbo on all of the above WGW, and you are basically anonomous to me.

 

Regarding the defense of your wife, that's really nice. But, what you descibe can also be the perfect MO for THE most ENTICING AFFAIR under the sun that exists! The kind of affair that would shock the living daylights out of every single person that you know. I hope I'm wrong. IMHO Her behavior and actions look fishy - and, I really believe you should at least track her with GPS. But the listening device would be much more convincing.

 

I was just like you so many years, trusting. Consider checking "whatever" it might be. Perhaps she is in some kind of trouble, and she is afraid to tell you. You know I gave a bunches of alternate possibilties to you initial question. What about the other ideas? Have you considered any of them? There are ways to find out what's not Kosher.

[marqueemoon4]

You ever stop and think how great life could be if we weren't putting up with this crap? And our wives loved us and we loved them and everything was great? And the sex was off the chain? And our kids were filled with glee? Hrmph, reality.

[worldgonewrong]

You ever stop and think how great life could be if we weren't putting up with this crap? And our wives loved us and we loved them and everything was great? And the sex was off the chain? And our kids were filled with glee? Hrmph, reality.

 

Every damn day, I think about this.

[debtman]

You ever stop and think how great life could be if we weren't putting up with this crap? And our wives loved us and we loved them and everything was great? And the sex was off the chain? And our kids were filled with glee? Hrmph, reality.

 

 

Just spent a week with an old friend staying at my house and it made me realize how much I put up with in my marriage even before things went "south." And things were "ideal" for the first 6 months or so that we were together and then they gradually veered more and more towards what she wanted and what she envisioned and away from what I knew and enjoyed.

 

I put up with it, lived with it, accepted it but wasn't "happy" about it.

 

Why is it that someone who starts off as a friend & lover, who seems to love us for who we are, eventually wants us to be someone else and, when we're not, they just leave looking for another person to change?

 

Now, I'm not so upset about not having my "partner" anymore because it didn't feel like a partnership for a LONG time, but, I am upset about not seeing my kids every day (unless I want to see her and spend time with her everyday, which I don't) and, not only having to try to figure out how to cover all the bills myself, but also having to pay child support that I know is WAY more than it costs to raise our kids, at least at this age...

 

Makes me crazy, stresses me out and makes me so mad at her for making such a bad decision that affects the kids and I so much just because she was selfish to think that OM would make her happy and she was too lazy to actually try to make changes and work on our relationship...

 

But, what can you do? Life goes on...

[Yasuandio]

Here's what you can do. You to WGW. Figure out a game plan of what you're gonna do when they come crawling back. If you both stay 180, I predict this is going to happen in both cases.

[worldgonewrong]

Figure out a game plan of what you're gonna do when they come crawling back. If you both stay 180, I predict this is going to happen in both cases.

 

The idea of my wife crawling back is like some weird lottery.

But a guy can dream.

If it does happen, then MC will be mandatory. And coming home would be preceded by one or two coffee 'dates' to talk things over and clear the air.

I can't even imagine the whiplash of being able to have things reverse right now. In a funny way, I fear it and I welcome it, if it happens.

But like the lottery, this is like talking about what I'd spend a million bucks on if I won.

[marqueemoon4]

The idea of my wife crawling back is like some weird lottery.

But a guy can dream.

If it does happen, then MC will be mandatory. And coming home would be preceded by one or two coffee 'dates' to talk things over and clear the air.

I can't even imagine the whiplash of being able to have things reverse right now. In a funny way, I fear it and I welcome it, if it happens.

But like the lottery, this is like talking about what I'd spend a million bucks on if I won.

 

If two guys deserve another chance after all they've been through and how they've handled the adversity -- its wgw and debtman. Myself, probably not so much.

[Yasuandio]

If two guys deserve another chance after all they've been through and how they've handled the adversity -- its wgw and debtman. Myself, probably not so much.

 

MM4,

You touch upon an important point here. These guys don't need second chances because neither one of them did anything that warrented being tossed to the curb like yesterday's trash. It would be their wives that would be needing to request the second chances -- especially in Debtman's situation.

 

Debtman's wife's case is so obnoxiously in his face that even causes an anonomous person like me to have an involuntary gag reflex response. If or when OM get's done with her, I just might say take her back, as long as long as the divorce papers are signed. Then, send her on her way once the kids reach the age where they may choose where they want to live, or they are at their majority. Whatever his preference.

 

The wife of WGW has certainly made a huge error that really doesn't make any sense, at least, to me, yet. Time will tell. I pray for the best outcome. It may take more than a couple coffee's though, for WGW to get that love'in feel'in back again. Wo oooo wo oooo wo, oh oh, oh oh.

 

That leaves the second chance for you MM4. I have not yet read your story, but there is always a second chance to become a better man or woman. If your spouse won't give to you, give it to yourself. Have a nice day.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Yasuandio

[debtman]

Yas & MM4, thanks for the support, but I think it's past the point where I would take her back. I dropped off the kids tonight and I was feeling a little bummed because my buddy headed back home, I've got to cash out some of my retirement to stay afloat financially and I don't have the kids this weekend. She could tell something was up and started asking over and over what was wrong, if she could do anything, etc. I told her it was nothing and left. I got home and she had left a message saying that she was "always there for me" and would do anything she could to help out. Yeah, no second chances there. I'm focused on moving on, looking forward and overcoming whatever obstacles life throws at me...there's too much to live for to let her get me down.

[marqueemoon4]

Yas & MM4, thanks for the support, but I think it's past the point where I would take her back. I dropped off the kids tonight and I was feeling a little bummed because my buddy headed back home, I've got to cash out some of my retirement to stay afloat financially and I don't have the kids this weekend. She could tell something was up and started asking over and over what was wrong, if she could do anything, etc. I told her it was nothing and left. I got home and she had left a message saying that she was "always there for me" and would do anything she could to help out. Yeah, no second chances there. I'm focused on moving on, looking forward and overcoming whatever obstacles life throws at me...there's too much to live for to let her get me down.

 

at least she feigns interest in your wellbeing... you're not getting complete indifference..

[What_Next]

Debtman given what she has done to you, I don't blame you one single bit in terms of not giving her a second chance. I mean how the heck could you? As for her offer of "being there", that's a load of crap and I am happy to read you didn't buy it. It constantly amazes me how even keeled you are. I know I would have told her to shove it if I was in your shoes. Then again it's my hot headed nature that got me in trouble to begin with.

 

:bunny: <-- for both Debtman and WGW. You both deserve it.

[worldgonewrong]

I think EVERY ONE on LS really deserves love, compassion, and mercy.

Most of us are here because of a big hurt that we desperately want fixed; we would almost sacrifice a limb to have things set right. So here's to ALL of us.

I believe that the positivity generated here can and does have a ripple effect, even if it seems undetectable.

[Yasuandio]

Guys, you may have noted Janedoe35 thread(s). I read all of them. They really shifted my paridigm. All threads of hope are pretty much gone for me. I've been thrown into some sort of grieving thing that I absolutely no control over. After reading her story it's like my body will not allow my mind to be divergent on the reconcilation concept - it's like the very idea of it, even if he were on his knees begging me (which certainly is not the case) would now be impossiblility.

 

I wonder if this is the acceptance phase? Or the "see the light" phase? Whatever it is, I am very, very sick from this. I am pacing, or walking in a circle. I am weak, and terribly scattered, doctor prescribed Ridelin today.

 

WGW, one of your descriptors come to mind: "feel like my guts have been ripped out."Jane's story may be useful to you as well. I have seen you just as miserable at times. The moral of the story is the whole thing is rather predictable, so don't waste your time longing and hoping for it. When you read the early threads that document the history, you for sure get it.

 

I spent $800 on the garage door today. I hope I did the right thing. I question every move I make. I am so smart but yet so helpless-- it has taken almost a week to gather the wherewithall to call the garage door place.

 

Anyway--just some thoughts. Yas

[worldgonewrong]

I wonder if this is the acceptance phase?

 

Probably is. You & your husband have been split up for quite awhile, right?

[marqueemoon4]

Probably is. You & your husband have been split up for quite awhile, right?

 

you know, I have accepted my wife is gone for good, but I don't think I'll EVER accept how it all went down. It'll just fade away with time I hope.

[worldgonewrong]

The following are just notes/thoughts -- disclaimer, I'm not putting my hopes on these things, so they're just observations (lest people think they're knocking me off a cloud, which they're not 'cause I'm not ON one, heh):

 

* Had a dream last night that we actually reconciled. It was very unusual, out-of-the-blue. This could be a good sign. Maybe not. All I know is that my dreams tend to be of a premonition-like nature -- case in point, before things went south with the wife, I had a loooong string of dreams about marital discord. I could not put my finger on those dreams because at the time we really WERE in sync with each other. Those dreams were premonitions. Anyway, it's just a dream. But there it is.

* Last night when I dropped my son off, I felt...a spark between us. Subtle, but I can't put my finger on it. I have been pretty guarded in our face-to-face encounters, so the 'frisson' between us really caught me off guard. Like 'psychic energy', at the risk of sounding flakey.

[debtman]

wgw, I've had the complete range of dreams, feelings, interpretations, etc. and try to guard myself against them as far as my W is concerned. I know you're hoping for reconciliation, so that has to be even more difficult to try to interpret/anticipate and deal with. I've already decided there is no reconciliation at this point. Just be careful to not let that affect your actions. At this point, it has to be her decision that she is willing to do the work necessary to try to fix things. Stick to NC and 180. Work on yourself. Focus on you and your kids. Stay strong, show her what she's leaving and, most importantly, make yourself happy and confident.

 

marqueemoon4, me to. It sucks, but at least it's closure. The hard part now is seeing/talking to her everyday because of the kids and re-living the betrayal.

 

Yas, you say that "all threads of hope are pretty much gone for me" and I hope you mean just for the relationship. Remember, when one door closes, many others open. You are no longer locked into anything. You are completely free to pursue whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want. I spent months double and triple thinking every decision, but, the last few weeks I've come to the realization that, once again, this is MY life and I can make any decisions I want and any repercussions are mine to deal with and I can "deal" with anything after what I've been through.

 

I'm sorry this is having the affect on you that it is. Try to gain strength from what you've been through, what you've survived. You're capable of facing anything after going through this. You're stronger because of it, you will be a better person for your next relationship and it will be a stronger, healthier relationship because of this.

 

WN, thanks for the bunnies. You may be hot-headed, but, your capacity for forgiveness and commitment to your family and to REALLY try working on your marriage are inspirational to all of us.

 

Good luck to all and keep posting...

[worldgonewrong]

As ever, debtman, thank you.

[Yasuandio]

Probably is. You & your husband have been split up for quite awhile, right?

 

since really September 08 when he abondoned me in a foreign country (for a second time).

[worldgonewrong]

Further notes:

 

Today is a low day.

As the 3-month mark of the separation looms tomorrow, I find myself feeling like it was just yesterday. All day I've been fighting back tears - not extremely so, but just enough to fog my mind up a little.

 

And yes, I f*cked up - according to the law 'round here- and emailed her today.

I simply let her know that I miss living with her and the children, at the end of an email that recounted something nice about our son. That was it. And if it's wrong, so be it. I'm already set back. I've got nothing to lose; the mere fact that I'm spewing my heartache onto an internet forum proves that.

[marqueemoon4]

Further notes:

 

Today is a low day.

As the 3-month mark of the separation looms tomorrow, I find myself feeling like it was just yesterday. All day I've been fighting back tears - not extremely so, but just enough to fog my mind up a little.

 

And yes, I f*cked up - according to the law 'round here- and emailed her today.

I simply let her know that I miss living with her and the children, at the end of an email that recounted something nice about our son. That was it. And if it's wrong, so be it. I'm already set back. I've got nothing to lose; the mere fact that I'm spewing my heartache onto an internet forum proves that.

 

yea man... its tough. I did it alot because from my perspective if the roles were reversed thats what I'd want to hear. unfortunately our spouses have either changed or were never like that to begin with. apparently if you can't COPE by yourself without your wife and your child you're weak. you should be occupying your thoughts with the next woman you're gonna be with and how much you can bench. its bs if you ask me.

 

its funny, i have this belief that no one on here will agree with, but from MY perspective there should be no other man more important than me because I am her sons father, likewise there is no other woman more important to me than her because she is his mother. I get this from coming from a HEALTHY background that included two loving parents that did everything for me and my sister. She comes from a background of a messed up mother and abusive father. I guess I shouldn't wonder why she doesn't feel this way, and is perfectly happy making me out to be a monster so she can be with another dude. Whatever.

[worldgonewrong]

you and I are practically a mirror image:

my folks were loving and did everything for me and my sibling, and they have remained married & faithful.

Her folks - jeez, well, her stepfather was abusive & her mom rarely puts her first. When her mom does put her first, it's obligatory and my wife has to do cartwheels of joy for the attention.

I just want to hire a plane and sky-write the words "F*CK IT" in big bold letters over this city today.

 

you should be occupying your thoughts with the next woman you're gonna be with and how much you can bench. its bs if you ask me.

 

I totally hear ya. Yeah, thinking of another woman right now - that is, a relationship where you share your goddamned soul - makes me want to vomit. I look at every woman now as a potential heartbreaker, which I know is an exaggeration. And I look at younger people w/their significant-others, holding hands, and I want to scream, "Don't do it. It's going to end in failure."