Through the Separation Jungle

[debtman]

I'm more interested in making my kids happy and in making myself more focused on concrete things future-wise.

 

BRAVO!!! That is EXACTLY what you need to do. Took me about 2 months of "forcing" myself to do that and then, it just started to feel good. I'm happier, in many ways, than I've been in a long time and my kids are happy when we're together and it actually paid off the other day when my stbx told me "The kids told me they don't like it when I yell at them and that you always warn them that you're getting upset with something and let them know that you're going to have to start yelling if they don't listen. So, I tried that...and it works!"

 

So, my self-focus is actually helping my kids deal with their mom.

 

 

I might take a break from here for a bit. I keep chewing the same bone. If things flare up or improve, I'll be back. Just need a break. This site itself - as helpful as it is, and it really is - perpetuates getting stuck in the same ol' cycles sometimes.

 

Absolutely. This site makes you STAY focused on what brought you here. Take some time off, work on moving forward. Come back whenever you need a boost or some advice. We're here for you...

 

Good luck!!

[Yasuandio]

Reading offered was on philosophy you dig (Quantum Physics). I agree, we got the divorce gig down, all that's left are a couple last resorts, and time. I now regret I didnt really put a more positive spin on my stab at your questions. Sorry again. Certainly meant no offense or harm. Have a good break. I'm praying for you. Good luck, like a good neighbor, LS is here!

[marqueemoon4]

Reading offered was on philosophy you dig (Quantum Physics). I agree, we got the divorce gig down, all that's left are a couple last resorts, and time. I now regret I didnt really put a more positive spin on my stab at your questions. Sorry again. Certainly meant no offense or harm. Have a good break. I'm praying for you. Good luck, like a good neighbor, LS is here!

 

is there such a thing as a 180 after papers are served? I would think most marriages are beyond saving at that point. I know mine is.

[worldgonewrong]

No offense taken, Yas! I always value your support.

[updown]

WGW,

you asked about HER thoughts of you not saying anything on her birthday. this is ONLY a guess. but, i'd have to say if you had said something it would have annoyed her. and if you don't say anything it's going to annoy her too, but more in the " see, he's a creep" way. the later is the better choice right now. if you did say something she'd be annoyed in the " he won't leave me alone" way. again, this is just a GUESS since i don't know her or much about her.........

 

next year, will be a different story. you'll both be in different states of mind (whether together or apart). but for now, you did the right thing.

 

take a break from here. it's a good idea. make a short of list of goals, or things to do. once the list is done come back and update. or something along those lines. i used to read just about every single day. now, it's about once or twice a week at most and i only read a handful of established threads. i am 2 yrs out though..... so, i can see back to where you are vs. where i now am. you get there. it just takes time. but, you do get there.

 

praying for you, either way!

[worldgonewrong]

Updown- I think you nailed it with your guess. Spot on. Either way, I can relax knowing that I did the right thing.

 

And thank you! I deeply appreciate your prayers.

[Yasuandio]

is there such a thing as a 180 after papers are served? I would think most marriages are beyond saving at that point. I know mine is.

 

Dear MQM4 (not WGW)

 

Sure, serving papers is a huge turn of events, wounln't ya say? (I think it is more of a Last Resort Technique, or "Do Something Different Technique" when you are sick of waiting and are desirious for an effect, last stand, or finale -- however, you better, and you really need to mean it). Getting served I think would wake up a fair number that are in an affair fog, so-called MLC, etc. That's just my opinion, and it comes with a huge risk.

 

Many people that use 180 and NC techniques, and make attempts at reconcilation are in the divorce process. You can even save a marriage after the divorce is final really.

 

Divorces and marriages are contracts on paper.

 

Attraction between two people is instinctual.

[Yasuandio]

WGW, I 4realize u r on sabatical. However, thru the further info I recieved on the philosophy you said you dogged, took a turn in application I would not expect. I have been trying to do it, as it makes total sense. I wish I knew how to copy links.

 

Let me try to boil it down. Ok, we have good memories we can put in our minds. You must remove people, places, and things from these memories. From there -- you essenially boil them down to a sensation you had in that period of time in those particular curcumtances.

 

You must isolate. So for example, my case is easy, so let's use it. When I remove everything, and focus on only the good feeling that I was experiencing in the embroidery moment was:

 

A sense of security.

A feeling that I never had to think of my age.

A sense that my direction was secure.

 

WGW, that is all I ever felt in my marriage. I am focusing on these things, the first of which I still enjoy. I am imaginaging enjoying the others -- or the scenerios where I was experiencing enjoying the others.

 

Recently-- a new memory of pleasure that I use to enjoy came back to me. It is when I felt his strong muscular hand on my hip on a few times in the night, unsolicited. I am able to feel his hand on me. It is a warmth I enjoyed, albeit on few occasions. I am trying my best to focus on the feeling and not the phisical qualities of the hand. It is difficult.

 

I will find a way to copy these lessons to u. If u could send me an anonomous g-mail, it would be really easy for me to toward if you're interested.

 

Remember -- isolate your experience from the source of the expeience. That's the key. Throw that out to the universe, and the boomerang effect will be loads better when the toxity is removed from the pleasure. That's the best way I can explain where the literature went last time we corresponded. Yas

[Yasuandio]

One other thing WGW. I think it may have been a recent story by Shattered Reality. I was just stunned, and related so much to the poinant example provided regarding "handing your heart back" because it's [her's]. It may be bruised, damaged, hurt, and in pain. But when push comes to dhove, and the pedal hits the metal -- you gave it to her a long time ago. And it will always be her's. If she chooses to damage and throw it back to you, it remains there beating for her -- if she ever wants it back. Because it's hers. You gave it to her.

 

WGW, i put SR post in my own words. I interpreted the post an the ultimate reasoning to justify why it is "we" want them back, or are willing to take them bake after whatever transgression. When I read this, it just crushed me, as it flies in the face of theraputic advice, common sense, and what your closest friends and relatives would tell you. What even your Pastor would advise! (but so does Divorce Busters and Solution Based Therapy). I responded not so long ago to that thead (perhaps Jespsp?) so it would be easy for you to search my recent posts, if your interested. If not, so sorry to bother you. Yas

[worldgonewrong]

Thanks for your wonderful posts, Yas.

This is sort of like 'the butterfly effect' in a sense.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that you get back (eventually) what you put into the universe. This clicks with me.

[worldgonewrong]

Random notes for today:

 

1. As I emailed a good buddy here:

"What drives me nuts - about BOTH of our situations - is how many years do they think they can keep operating like this???

Today I just feel sort of sick, physically, from all this.

They can keep operating on their own self-selected cruise-control, and meanwhile we just gotta sit here & take it with a big fat smile on our face. Can't say one negative word or otherwise it will be blown waaaay out of proportion.

I f*cking want to puke."

 

2. I feel like I've ceased to be a person in her eyes. I'm nothing. Zero. Just the guy who writes checks. I hate how my time with my kids is in these finite chunks. It's stressful; it makes me hyper-aware of making THE MOMENT count because I know it will END. It's unnatural and very sad and it takes its toll on me. Today is one of those days, after tossing & turning all night thinking.

 

Anything good or vaguely "connecting" is ignored, completely. Anything that reveals I'm not the 'black' character is just dismissed out of hand. Any small kind gesture that steps out of the boundaries of check-writing is either ignored or rebuffed.

 

Is there no way to make this person SEE, really SEE, how cancerous, callous, and unkind their reactions/non-reactions are? How long can a person ride a roller-coaster of selfishness before they REALIZE that they have culpability too? That they themselves are capable of excruciating hurt?

 

My God, it's the end of May and I find myself thinking how 2011 is a complete f*cking write-off of a year. It sickens me, saddens me. Yeah, yeah, I know all about 'going out and doing stuff' for myself -- but at the end of the day, one can't reconcile those things with 20 years backlog of bonding memories.

[marqueemoon4]

Anything good or vaguely "connecting" is ignored, completely. Anything that reveals I'm not the 'black' character is just dismissed out of hand. Any small kind gesture that steps out of the boundaries of check-writing is either ignored or rebuffed.

 

Is there no way to make this person SEE, really SEE, how cancerous, callous, and unkind their reactions/non-reactions are? How long can a person ride a roller-coaster of selfishness before they REALIZE that they have culpability too? That they themselves are capable of excruciating hurt?

 

 

 

this kills me too.. my ex thinks that since she doesn't "care" anymore she can treat like a complete doormat or just outright act like I don't exist, and I did nothing positive over our 8yrs together. And then when I say something defending myself that she doesn't like, I'm "cruel". I don't think there is much crueler than abandoning someone, blaming everything on them, getting together with OM then lying about it countless times and acting like I'm invisible. It's unconscionable. Again, women terrify me.

[Yasuandio]

WGW, I forget, what was the reason you were put out? I mean, was there actually one? If so, can it be stated in a clear, concise, convincing sentence?

[worldgonewrong]

WGW, I forget, what was the reason you were put out? I mean, was there actually one? If so, can it be stated in a clear, concise, convincing sentence?

 

I dunno about "convincing", , but this is the long & short of it:

 

The tension between us was so great & unhealthy (particularly as I was sleeping downstairs every night for like 3 months) that we agreed to a separation.

I agreed under duress -- the last thing in the world I wanted.

[worldgonewrong]

I still resolutely believe - after all this hell - that we will be back together.

There's no problem too big, too insurmountable to work through.

Also, I have an insistent Voice in my soul - contrary to every AWFUL feeling and moment I've encountered - that we will be reunited. That Voice, I have to say plainly, is God. (Let the derision and laughter commence now from others. I can take it.)

There's something Bigger than me that is pulling me toward faith even when everything I see with my eyes or hear with my ears is showing me otherwise. It's very strange. And it's not a faux-optimistic thing either. I feel ground down and hopeless, but something within me is overriding all of this, something beyond me that I cannot explain.

[change]

I still resolutely believe - after all this hell - that we will be back together.

There's no problem too big, too insurmountable to work through.

Also, I have an insistent Voice in my soul - contrary to every AWFUL feeling and moment I've encountered - that we will be reunited. That Voice, I have to say plainly, is God. (Let the derision and laughter commence now from others. I can take it.)

There's something Bigger than me that is pulling me toward faith even when everything I see with my eyes or hear with my ears is showing me otherwise. It's very strange. And it's not a faux-optimistic thing either. I feel ground down and hopeless, but something within me is overriding all of this, something beyond me that I cannot explain.

 

 

Good Lord, this is word for word what I wrote down myself recently. I'm... glad I"m not the only one that feels this way? I have no idea.

 

At the very least, WGW, you will not hear any derisive laughter from me.

[marqueemoon4]

I think its great to have faith and a positive attitude... but, at the end of the day it seems the only person who has any control over whether you'll reunite or not is your wife. And she's not showing any signs of wanting that to happen. I know you're scared to let go and its incredibly hard, but thats probably what you have to do. Once you've freed yourself then who knows what will happen.

[worldgonewrong]

update: on friday, I made the mistake of 'wearing my heart on my sleeve' again with her, via email. yeah I know. She rebuffed me (e.g. "our marriage is over") and then I responded with a very direct, pointed email that others (including me) can see how she's become self-absorbed, cold, and selfish.

Ironically, then, she has been gradually...nicer to me since I let her have both barrels.

 

I've become comfortable with the idea that only SHE can have the will to change; nobody else can MAKE her change. It's like with alcoholism: you can scream at a drunk until you're blue in the face; only THEY can have the 'awakening' - and that awakening might occur if they face up to themselves.

She's not facing up to herself, and I let her know that she's not doing such a great job at fooling herself, me, and the kids.

[What_Next]

Don't beat up on yourself too much about those emails. I know when I was attempting the 180 I made my fair share of mistakes as well.

 

You are quite correct in saying that it is up to HER to change, you cannot do it for her.

 

However, leaving you in limbo like this in my opinion is wrong.

[Craig2425]

Nobody should beat themselves up for slipping up on the 180s. I'm sure 99% of the people trying the 180 has or still are slipping up.

We are just trying to get our families back.

Best thing to do is get back to the 180s and keep busy(easier said then done).

[Yasuandio]

I'm with the other guys. That's what they told me. There's always plenty of time to circle the calandwe and watch the months add up again. Also, you learned about this pretty early on, you are lucky. You could have really done some totally dumb stuff you'd have a difficult time ever forgetting. I think someone even ran a post about the "worth things we did" which made me feel a lot better.

 

You are doing great WGW. Re-read your Homer. I really think you need to step out of your shell again (I need to take my own advice.). What I find really problematic is that there really is nothing to wrap your head around, no tangable reason, no timetable -- just a huge, open, ended mystery (as far as you know). We thinking and reasoning organs that kick in on instinct, but there appears to be little information to work with, and it is no wonder you emotions are surfacing. This is the kind of thing that can drive you mad. Feel better WGW. I am praying for you! Yas

[worldgonewrong]

W_N, Craig2425, and Yas: thank you for the kind support and reassurances.

(Keep the prayers coming, Yas.)

 

One of the difficult things to adjust to is the realization that your Other Half has been your mirror for so long. As your mirror, you draw a lot of your self-image from that person. When the mirror gets cracked or warped or blacked-out, one is out-of-sorts and ill at the thought that they don't have their bearings anymore, like they used to. I'm just realizing that my previously-trusted mirror is no longer functioning. It's terrifying and liberating at the same time, because you have to learn to trust your previously-atrophied senses.

 

I'm not acting upon this, 'cause I don't want to, but I have noticed that women are taking more notice of me more -- maybe because I'm reflecting a stronger sense of Self and confidence than before. Not an ego thing, totally, but it's nice.

[worldgonewrong]

update: I emailed her & asked her if she's having at least an emotional affair.

Will most likely be ignored. But at least I put it out there that I'm not a frickin' idiot without a clue as to the possibilities.

[worldgonewrong]

additional: I'm coming to terms with facing reality, and the possibility of an E.A.

 

1. BEFORE we split up (even though we had designated a D-Day), she was INSISTENT on separating our phone services. IMMEDIATELY. at the time, I just dismissed it as manic and weird, but now it makes sense.

2. She left a note out with the words "An Affair to Remember" and then on the back page, a brief reflection on being looked at salaciously by an old high school flame, which she liked.

3. her incessant late-night texting into the night, right up to the day I moved out.

 

I can't help but put the pieces together. Am I making any sense?

[marqueemoon4]

Stolen from the website of the PI I used to prove my stbx was with an OM after she lied about it about 20 times:

 

Your Spouse MAY be cheating if you can answer “yes” to any of the following behaviors:

 

Does your partner suddenly care more about their appearance?

Such as: Working out, weight loss, tanning, new undergarments and clothes, not wearing their wedding bands

 

Decreased intimate relations or different sexual styles suddenly introduced, or any change from your norm.

 

Spouses phone and/or credit card bills are no longer coming to your home address, unexplained ATM withdrawals, separate accounts?

 

Change in work habits and schedule. For example, long lunches, working late, happy hour, out of town trips, not attending events with your spouse anymore, does your spouse seem to disappear on the weekends?

 

Is your spouse continuously on the internet or texting on their phone at all hours? Is your spouse

protective of their phone or has new passwords, does your spouse have blocked calls or private calls frequently, late night or hang up calls?

 

Has your spouse ever said any of these phrases to you?

 

“I need time apart, I need space”

“I don’t know if I want to be married”

“It’s a figment of your imagination”

“You’re paranoid”

“I don’t love you anymore”

“It’s just a friend”

“I don’t trust you”