Through the Separation Jungle

[Yasuandio]

WGW, Sorry man. It sorta looks like the there, there. It's possible she wanted to try this dude out for awhile, see if he'd be a better husband than you. It's also possible she's innocent on all charges. She could have been texting her girlfriends about wanting to get you to leave. Question: her appearance, her demeanor when she walkin in the door? Anything different?

 

Do you still have the oringinal account for the cell phones? (I bet she has it, which gives her control over it). One-line you can look at calls from 6 months ago. You can also order the call records. In fact, you may be able to order the phone records during the period of time you were the account holder.

 

Bet she didn't count on that! Do It Now. Get a nice lady to help you, tell her how you got bamboozled and you'll get what you want. You also own the text messages that went on in the night. They may be costly, but so is your effing psyche worth it. Get it now -- pay extra for STAT.

 

The phone and text records up until you separated bill you OWN.

 

When I recieved my package, I was completely stunned -- more stunned than you will ever be. Even if you can't get the text, you don't have to let her know that.

 

The next thing you do is SHUT UP, and act normal. Think about exactly how you would handle this matter. When you get the info (some recent ones from January and February they may be able to get right away. But you still want to get at least two years worth so her pattern can be charted, and be sure this hasn't been done before. That may give you an idea when contact started.

 

Call all common credit cards and have them copies of the past bills for your records.

 

 

Regarding "An Affair to Remember" it is a very old romantic film that was on pay-per-view. I saw the clips during winter, and ordered it myself from Netflex. Think it has Cary Grant in it.

 

 

Dude, you better stay totally cool. You really do not have HARD evidence. Your wife is very damn slick. I repeat, there is always a chance she is innocent.

 

One more thing, just because you have records of extended phone calls and texts to some don't prove anything. If you get this info,, the next step is for us to find out who he is.

 

Do you have a baby seat or share a car? I would rig up a digital voice activated recorded under her seat or under the streering compartment ASAP. You can at least hear half the convo.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Yasuandio

[worldgonewrong]

Yas - If I go this route, will the phone numbers actually correlate to a name(s)??

Also, I'm as cool as a cucumber. I feel unburdened.

 

MM4: Great list. Yup. Well, she became more appearance-obsessed right after I moved out, that's for damn sure. After I let her have both barrels in my email the other day (see a day or two back post-wise where I mentioned it), she looked like her 'old self' (still beautiful, but now showy like she's been) for the first time in AGES when she dropped the kids off on Sunday.

[updown]

what were the events leading up to you sleeping separately? did you have any comments like " this marriage is a mess," " what's the point?," " i can't do this anymore." anything like that come out of your mouth?

 

i was told to leave that i wasn't loved and that we never should've gotten married in the first place. so, my reaction was a lot of what that PI states is signs of an affair. i took off my wedding ring. i lost some weight, not on purpose but i did, so, i had to buy new clothes, and new bras. i started talking to everyone i could about my failing marriage. i started asking everyone questions and some of those people were of the opposite sex. after we officially separated i did want separated finances. he was monitoring all of my phone and internet activity, using my car to track me, and used surveillence in the house, etc.

 

so, if you played any role at all in the sleeping alone for 3 months and then YOU choose to leave, her reactions could all come from feeling like you are done with her. most of what you read states that when men say they are done, they mean it. they have moved on and no longer want the same things.

 

i'm not saying she isn't having some sort of affair, but just because she is acting the way she is doesn't mean she IS having one either. i found myself on my own for the first time in over a decade and believe me the easiest thing in the world to do is attach yourself to ANYONE at that point!! it doesn't mean there is actually something going on. you're alone and confused and women need emotional attachments.

 

my suggestion for you, is figure out how knowing her current status ( affair or not) would change YOUR current path. if you come at her with a whole lotta " i gotcha red handedness" she might run further away........ if you let it play itself out, she might come back at the end, realizing what she gave up in the first place........ figure out WHY you need to know, and WHAT you would do with that info and go from there ( before you spend a lot of time and emotional energy looking into it all).

 

feel free to ignore me though. i have a feeling my situation is MAJORLY different from yours.......

 

good luck!

[Yasuandio]

Yas - If I go this route, will the phone numbers actually correlate to a name(s)??

Also, I'm as cool as a cucumber. I feel unburdened.

 

MM4: Great list. Yup. Well, she became more appearance-obsessed right after I moved out, that's for damn sure. After I let her have both barrels in my email the other day (see a day or two back post-wise where I mentioned it), she looked like her 'old self' (still beautiful, but now showy like she's been) for the first time in AGES when she dropped the kids off on Sunday.

 

WGW, if only data analysis was that easy. The answer is no. The scientist determines how to organize the data. You can follow the basic framework of my study. Essentially, it is either a sore thumb or a process of elimination. Both really include at least some process of elimination, but a huge sore thumb makes for the easiest study.

 

if your data is still accessable on the computer, and is anything like At&Ts Mobility site, you look up something called "Call Detail" going back about a year. Hopefully you still have that account.

 

What makes the process a lot easier is to assign names to all the numbers that you know on the Call Detail records as you examine. Then, it becomes a process of elimination. The most obvious place to look are call that are frequent and lengthy. Next, calls made late at night, and at work, around lunch time. Put a name to each number, such as "Mr. LateLunch" or "Weekend Dude," or "Target.". Graph out who appears where and when and for how long.

 

I made mine on notebook paper with a calander on each sheet. I devised each day horizontally in thirds. Then I wrote the time and number of minuites on each day there were calls. I just used a random 8 month sample.

 

If the call was at 8:30 am (morning) in went int the time and number of minuites went top section of the particular day, and was highlighted in yellow.

If the time fell between noon and 6pm, it was logged in section two of the day. And the data from 6pm and later was highlighted in green.

 

It sounds like a lot of trouble, but it was actually pretty easy when I had the list of numbers from printing off the "Call Data" reports. They print nice and big -- nothing like a bill -- very user friendly. I laid out my color-coded samples of the 8 months (consisting of 8 horizontal piececes of noteback paper). Junuary at the top, walking backwards, laying each month dawn on the floor. This way, all seven days of the week lined up perfectly with one another like ducks in a row.

 

The first thing that struck me is this might be a good way to come up with a tile pattern motif for a kitchen backsplash. Frist thing every Wednesday and Thusday morning (yellow) there was a short call, 5-7 minuits. When I used to have the GPS on his car, I always wondered, why would he want to drive pat ten tennis courts, to the very most deep area of a park to sip on his Starbucks?

 

The way I located my number was it stood out in the number of minuits used. Normally his average usage was 3 minutes, he seldom spoke more than 3-5 minuites. These call were 20, 35, 10, 45, 48, 15. And he did all the dialing, with the exception of 2 interesting occasions.

 

Naturally there were a lot of extremely long green calls on the two nights he worked late. The visual pattern that emerged was obvious. What bothered me the most was that I had leaned without a doubt this was a man's phone. The next that sort of stunned me, but, was quite east to do once I had construct the 8 charts represent eight months. He had been on the phone with this man to 17.46 hours in total. Now that's more than I talk to my Mother.

 

The calls to this number stopped when he hired his attorney. The call go back as gas as we've had this service, 2006. The hardest part of this is coming up with a system. Here it is on a silver platter!

 

If your data come to you differently, I can tell you how to compress it.

 

You might get your lead number from the holiday times. When did you leave? Were you there for this holidays? It works all different ways, you just have to have an analytical mindset. Keep working the data from different perspectives, viewpoints, dates, times, amount of calls, when a new number suddenenly emerges -- appears often -- and tapers slightly (you could do that with thin highlights right on the bill.

 

Iif you have to order data, at least on mine, they did no number the pages.

 

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO IT IS?

 

Well, in my case, I just *67ed the number a couple of times over the year. Evenually, using my girlfriend's cell phone, I called the man and told him I lost his wife's cell phone number, and he gave it to me. I already knew who owned the cell phone by spending five bucks in Intellus. I used his name on US People search, and saw who his relatives were. It a was obvious who his wife was.

 

I identified myself, and told her exactly what I had found. I explained that I was most concerned that my husband was on the phone with her hunband for almost 18 hours in a sample 8 month period. She was very nice, and said she had met my husband once. But she was completely sure she knew her husband, and perhaps her husband was doing some computer work for our restarant (and that I was overreacting). What I find totally interesting is no one ever called me out on it. If I was her husband-- I would have hit the ceiling and came after mine. What do you think?

 

In the end, all you have are phone records. You don't know what was said. Actually, when that's all the evidence ya got, that may be where the new term EA came up. You are really being honest cause the letters can stand for Extra-marital Affair, right? That is why you say nothing, period. Don't put her alert, let her get sloppy. You are never going to believe this, WGW, until you see them together. And you are always going to wonder if you don't rule it out.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Yasuandio

[worldgonewrong]

updown: when tensions were fraught, I would stupidly utter the "d" word as a stupid, vague threat. She acted upon it, and wanted me out.

 

Yas: I appreciate the thoughtful step-by-step breakdown of that stuff. I really do. That said, I don't have the energy for it right now, to become THAT preoccupied with her.

[worldgonewrong]

p.s. I should have elaborated a second ago:

I'm tired. But at the same token, I'm more self-aware and calm.

The anger/upset has been spent from my system.

To engage her or for me to engage separately in her problems (which is what this comes down to) on any level is almost...well, counter-productive.

Maybe I'm turning some corners in my mind.

Maybe I'm disengaging from the whole soap opera that she created.

Maybe I just don't give a sh#t anymore!

 

Yes, I'm going to be consulting a lawyer sometime this summer. But as far as anything else, I'm detaching. And I'm starting to feel an internal freedom that I haven't felt before.

 

Do I want my marriage to survive and be renewed? DEFINITELY.

But I've done all I can do.

[updown]

i'm glad to read that you're not going to delve into her world. i truly do believe it is counter productive. i believe people who end up doing this can often see things that aren't really there. yes, of course you can find things that are there too! but, sometimes you find just enough to make you see more than is really there. i know that's how it went down in my case. and it didn't do any good.

 

i have been told many stories of couples that have gotten divorced only to end up becoming good friends again ( after a period of time) and then get remarried. that is always a possibility.

 

i only know a female perspective on marriage, separation and divorce. and mine is not the norm. but, i do know that most women run further away when we feel like we're being followed, or like someone is trying to catch us. we don't feel safe and we certainly don't feel like coming/ going back.

 

move on with your life. don't wait for her. see what happens. divorce sucks and it sucks when two people cannot work together to salvage it and make it work. but, marriage cannot survive, marriage cannot be when only one person is willing to put their heart and soul in it............ she walked away. she WALKED away! i think that says a lot about who you are dealing with.......

[debtman]

But as far as anything else, I'm detaching. And I'm starting to feel an internal freedom that I haven't felt before.

 

Do I want my marriage to survive and be renewed? DEFINITELY.

But I've done all I can do.

 

BRAVO!! That's all you can do. Move on. Look forward. Things will only get better. Focus on the 180. It does work...it's about YOU now...freedom, yes...

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[worldgonewrong]

updown & Debtman: thank you for your support & continued insight. So very valuable. I wish I could properly convey my thanks/love to EVERYONE who's been involved on my thread, as it's been so helpful. You all are great.

 

I've also come to realize: she's gotta work on her own internal anger. She's nursing anger, right now. Anything I try to do only makes her clutch that anger closer to her chest -- even if I'm making the right gestures. So, hence back to 180. Also, regards our relationship, it very much the principle that when I drift off, she gets curious and inches closer. When I skip back, she's repelled again. I get it now.

[worldgonewrong]

So weird -- when I pull back, she texts me more and is more accommodating.

My replies have been more succinct and curt, by comparison she's been a chatterbox.

((shake o' the head))

[marqueemoon4]

games my friend, games. push and a pull and push and a pull. don't involve yourself.

[updown]

it could be games. it could be that once she sees you no longer coming after her, no longer appearing to chase or care, she's more interested in being in touch. also, as time goes by she might start seeing you as a friend and want to communicate because she feels she's received the space she needs and is ready to reconnect with you. keep doing what you're doing.

 

it could be just a game to her, or it could be that the more aloof you are, the more willing she is to come around........ you never know!!

[worldgonewrong]

thanks, MM4 and updown, for your thoughts.

 

As far as any games are concerned: I don't think it's games. I know my wife pretty well after 20 years of togetherness. She's not a very good bullsh*tter.

What is happening is this -- she's stubbornly committed to an idea that even SHE doubts. I know it by example of how she timidly takes baby steps when I turn my back. I intend to keep my back turned until/if she wants to wake up. It's a bit like dealing with a child -- I love the 'child' always, but I have to turn my back on the attention-getting behavior. You don't indulge it.

[robf1971]

So weird -- when I pull back, she texts me more and is more accommodating.

My replies have been more succinct and curt, by comparison she's been a chatterbox.

((shake o' the head))

 

Human nature. Stop contacting her altogether, watch what happens lol. I don't think I initiated a call or a text in 6 months. Some days she called me 5 times !!

[marqueemoon4]

Human nature. Stop contacting her altogether, watch what happens lol. I don't think I initiated a call or a text in 6 months. Some days she called me 5 times !!

 

only cause there was no OM and she still cared about you. not always the case.

[worldgonewrong]

Going through a down period, but buoying back up gradually again.

 

She asked me to outline paycheck-to-paycheck from now through September what I'm kicking in for camp and expenses. We're very stretched with finances, always have been. She's working a part-time summer job that pays very little. I took a deep breath and purposefully did not reply for over 24 hours, as I did not want a trace of anger or sarcasm to cloud my reply. So replied, outlined the projections for paychecks this month and the end of the month -- not couched at all in "I'm gonna give you x/y/z on each pay cycle" -- more like, "here's all the stats, and here's the reality". Without any peevishness at all on my part.

 

It's tough. I am still holding on to hope and Faith. Not giving up, even though I'm hearing and seeing otherwise. I spoke with my mom last night and she said that it's obvious after almost 5 months that she's not budging and not going to and that it's OVER.

But...I can't let go. I'm fighting for our FAMILY, for what needs fixing and could be fixed with love, attention, and respect.

 

Sorry for the rambling.

[robf1971]

only cause there was no OM and she still cared about you. not always the case.

 

Sadly a Walk away wife is a walk away wife, whether there's an OM or not.

[Surfer203]

thanks, MM4 and updown, for your thoughts.

 

As far as any games are concerned: I don't think it's games. I know my wife pretty well after 20 years of togetherness. She's not a very good bullsh*tter.

What is happening is this -- she's stubbornly committed to an idea that even SHE doubts. I know it by example of how she timidly takes baby steps when I turn my back. I intend to keep my back turned until/if she wants to wake up. It's a bit like dealing with a child -- I love the 'child' always, but I have to turn my back on the attention-getting behavior. You don't indulge it.

 

My wife does/did the same thinig. Committed to an idea she doubts or is unsure of! Textbook sh**. So annoying, and there is no way to shake them up and change their mind.

[worldgonewrong]

My wife does/did the same thinig. Committed to an idea she doubts or is unsure of! Textbook sh**. So annoying, and there is no way to shake them up and change their mind.

 

Yup. Bingo. Only they can wake up and face the music that they initiated.

It involves them realizing their own guilt and culpability in terms of making just a bad decision.

[debtman]

Yup. Bingo. Only they can wake up and face the music that they initiated.

It involves them realizing their own guilt and culpability in terms of making just a bad decision.

 

And it may be a matter of weeks, months, or years before they realize that...or it may never happen.

It took about 4 months before I decided I was finished putting my life on hold hoping that she would realize that OM wasn't "all that" and would change her mind.

Once I made that decision, I moved on with my life and things have never been better.

The finances suck, the reduced time with the kids suck, but there are up sided to everything. I appreciate every dollar I make/save and cherish every minute with my kids. I'm enjoying every moment of life again and realizing how lucky I am to be exactly where I am. Things are continually getting better and easier and I have her to thank for that.

I think she's finally seen the "chinks" in OM and she's given me some indication that she may have regrets, but it doesn't matter to me anymore. It's no longer my concern...

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[worldgonewrong]

Thanks, debtman, as ever for your wise counsel. Helps keep me sane.

 

Interesting side note: since I've backed off (e.g. not sending phone pix of my time w/the kids), she's being a bit more 'giving'. I'm invited to our son's elementary school graduation and she's been informing me directly of his recent school achievements.

 

Also, on a vain note, she saw me in a bathing suit when she dropped the kids off at the pool. I've lost 20 pounds and I look pretty f*ckin good. Could not ignore that.

[Surfer203]

wgw: Good for you - keep up the positive self improvement. 20 lbs. is huge!!! Awesome job.

[What_Next]

20lbs! Wow. That's amazing.

 

I dropped a tonne of weight during our seperation as well, really made me feel awesome.

 

Debtman, I am still in awe of you, I really am.

[Surfer203]

Agreed with WN. debtman's attitude is flawless. I am impressed at how tough he is.. what he has been through and how he is acting. Being an awesome dad apparently and taking care of himself, positive mind set and a nice guy always. Keep it up man.

[worldgonewrong]

another thing: I'm not as quick to respond to her email queries. Before, I'd be JUMPING on them, but now I let them slide a day or two or let them drift (unless they really require an answer re our kids).

 

~sigh~ preaching to the choir, but...this all sucks. I still love her. Still want my family back. If I could somehow bottle the love we shared when our kids were born, man, it would be magical.