Through the Separation Jungle

[worldgonewrong]

Wow, I don't know if I deserved the smackdown on that, Yas.

 

All I meant was you sounded optimistic about her "cracking" -- I implied nothing further. I'm not optimistic about anything at all whatsoever.

 

p.s. I am lawyering up very soon, as I have to break the financial cycle we're in where I keep supporting 99% and get nothing out of the deal.

[marqueemoon4]

the sooner the better man.. expect the worst, hope for the best.

[worldgonewrong]

the sooner the better man.. expect the worst, hope for the best.

 

yup. totally agree.

in my case, it will be pretty cut & dry since we rent, have no real assets (save the car in MY name), and lots of school debt. A sane judge will tell her to get a full-time job pronto.

[worldgonewrong]

further reflection:

Looking into getting a pro bono lawyer.

I pay for everything:

*rent

*water

*gas & electric

*car insurance

*car payment

*my phone bill

*her phone bill (I only do this as I need to keep in contact with our kids)

*and then I also supply a check for expenses (groceries/living/gas/kids clothes)

 

In return, I live in my parents' house and I am left with basically pocket money.

I cannot afford to live on my own whatsoever.

Meanwhile my kids visit and eat at my parents' house 3 times a week, money out of my parents' fixed income (both retired) -- and meanwhile my parents graciously allow me to live there knowing full well I'd be living under a bridge otherwise.

 

Additionally, if my job went tits-up tomorrow, we would ALL be f*cked.

 

It's all very cock-eyed and needs to get remedied pronto. My wife is living in a fantasy world.

[Yasuandio]

Wow, I don't know if I deserved the smackdown on that, Yas.

 

All I meant was you sounded optimistic about her "cracking" -- I implied nothing further. I'm not optimistic about anything at all whatsoever.

 

p.s. I am lawyering up very soon, as I have to break the financial cycle we're in where I keep supporting 99% and get nothing out of the deal.

 

Sorry man. Love ya, pray'in for ya, man, no shyt. But call it like I see it. I admit to being a total effing b. I am a walking Torrert's Sydrome. Ok, Fine. I also have an earned doctorate from The Ohio State University (that doesn't necessarily mean anything other than I'm a fine researcher). But there comes a point, where I gotta just get real with you. I mean, your denial IS beginning to look like Russell's, and to say you may be heading straightforward smack in the direction, IMO, is a fair assessment. And it is time to bluntly point it out to you.

 

When I read this pussy BS about your bathing suit, your 20 pounds, your sunglasses, your analysis of her manic condition -- then I factor in that she told you in no uncertain terms "THE MARRIAGE IS OVER" -- Dude, gag a magot. What do you expect in response from a straightforward, over-educated, smart-asz like yours truely? Do you need sugar-coating, or can you hang, man? Just say so. I know how to sweeten the message.

 

Pro Bono Divorce Attorney? LMAO. Are you outta of your effing mind? Are you effing dreaming? Are you on effing LSD? There is no such thing!!! Pony up the dough right now, Dude! Pull a loan, or come up with some marital credit like, yesterday. I promise you, do a credit check, she has already milked your utters, baby. Remember the cell phone bill changeover she requested early on? She is a slick one, dude. Ten to one you are already waxed.

 

Anyway, I suppose you notice a difference in my temperament these days WGW. Im trying to protect you. I apologize if it comes off as brass or angry. I am angry now, it is very true. (I will explain what's pushing my buttons later). WGW, I don't want your World to go anymore Wronger than it already has. You get me? I apologize in advance for my lack of tact. I just have to tell you what I think, even if it is poisened with anger. Cause I believe you are capable of disphering any useful material from emotion (w/o crybaby hysteria). Surely there is something here in my extreme reaction ( if I were to guess, I would guess WGW would want my honest reaction preserved). Y/C

 

Will try again when in better mood.

 

THERE IS NOTHING OPTIMISTIC @ CRACKING.

 

"VERY SOON" CAN, AND OFTEN IS, TOO LATE.

 

At the very least, Get your foot in the door first, my man! Wakey, wakey.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Yasuandio

[debtman]

You need to end this cycle of support now. She will milk it as long as she can and she will be as "nice" to you as she thinks she needs to be in order to use you as much as she can...while she laughs at you behind your back.

 

This will be a wake-up call to her. She "may" realize the mistake she made or it may take months/years before she realizes how stupid she was, regardless, the sooner you take steps to end this, the sooner you can get on with your life, get on with making yourself happy and get on with getting past her...

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[worldgonewrong]

Yasuandio:

1. You read a lot more malevolence (financially) into something which is a lot more straight-forward. We have always lived paycheck-to-paycheck. I have my own account and she does not have access to it. Relatedly, when we had a joint account, records do not indicate any crazy withdrawals or charges whatsoever.

2. Yes, there is a pro bono divorce-lawyer conglomeration here. For poor folks like me.

3. As for the "pussy BS", if I tend to share anything which vaguely puffs up my self-esteem, don't throw it back in my face. Like 99% of the people on LS, I'm depressed as hell and don't need that. Just trying to get through the next 24 hours without crying my eyes out again.

 

Debtman: thank you, I agree. My one minor disagreement is that she's not laughing behind my back; she realizes full well she has leapt without thinking and that this is ALL tenuous. Financially, she's about to get a wake-up call. Whether it serves to 'fix' our marriage or render it completely broke is of no concern to me; I need some semblance of a life back.

[What_Next]

WGW, as far as any lawyer goes I think that you should put some serious thought into the type of representation you will be getting. I really don't believe this is a time to penny pinch or cut corners. Now I am not the type to suggest a scortched earth mentality at all, in fact I think it solves nothing. I do think you need to make this decision with a clear head though.

 

I do agree that your wife is using you financially though and that is not right.

 

YAS, I understand the point you are trying to make, but WGW is unlikely to respond to that sort of post at this time. Perhaps a little later he can come back and read it make use of some of the points you make, but I suspect it will just cause a defense mechanism to kick in.

 

Chin up WGW, as hard as that might be. You know that there is only so long you can allow this situation to continue though. I am not telling you anything you don't already know though.

[worldgonewrong]

Thank you, W_N.

 

IMPORTANT:

I've just had an epiphany.

I'm angry, disturbed, and this can't go on like this.

I am planning to send her an email (cc'ing ALL and sundry family and friend-wise) that I am going to move back in 1 month.

My name is on the lease, I pay for all bills (listed above) and expenses, and I have a good relationship with my children.

If she wants out of the marriage, fine. She can move to her parents' house and see how it feels. There is no reason - since I am the benefactor of everything in sustaining our family - for me to be not living in the very home (rented) that I am paying for.

I have lived for 5 months with my parents and I've got nothing. And I realized, this separation was HER idea and she should live with the consequences of her actions.

It's time for her to grow the f*ck up. It's like I awoke from a 5-month stupor this morning and felt ANGER for the first time.

 

any and all thoughts welcome.

I suddenly woke the f*ck up this morning.

[marqueemoon4]

YES. Stop letting her doormat you.

[debtman]

Thank you, W_N.

 

IMPORTANT:

I've just had an epiphany.

I'm angry, disturbed, and this can't go on like this.

I am planning to send her an email (cc'ing ALL and sundry family and friend-wise) that I am going to move back in 1 month.

My name is on the lease, I pay for all bills (listed above) and expenses, and I have a good relationship with my children.

If she wants out of the marriage, fine. She can move to her parents' house and see how it feels. There is no reason - since I am the benefactor of everything in sustaining our family - for me to be not living in the very home (rented) that I am paying for.

I have lived for 5 months with my parents and I've got nothing. And I realized, this separation was HER idea and she should live with the consequences of her actions.

It's time for her to grow the f*ck up. It's like I awoke from a 5-month stupor this morning and felt ANGER for the first time.

 

any and all thoughts welcome.

I suddenly woke the f*ck up this morning.

 

 

BRAVO!!! I'm telling you, moving back into MY house was the best thing I did for myself as far as getting back on my feet. Of course, my W moved out before I moved in, but, you've done enough to make this easy on her. This was her decision, let her deal with the consequences...be sure to ask your lawyer about the legal re-courses to get her out of the house as well...

 

Good luck and keep posting!!

[What_Next]

Yes I 100% agree.

 

This disturbing trend occurs all too often and it is just not right. If she wants out of the marriage, fine SHE leaves.

 

You've done your part and then some.

 

Well done.

[updown]

since i'm a female, i see the other side of this. so, i'm just going to throw this out there for you :-).

 

first, check with the laywer before you tell her you're going to move back in and force her hand at staying vs. leaving. the reason i suggest this, is because if there really is no one else, you might find that you still end up having to financially support her........... especially if you have kids and she hasn't worked in some time. i'm not saying it's right, but it could be the end outcome. if she moves out and finds a more expensive place to rent for her and the kids, that's more money for you to give her each month. talk with a lawyer first and see what they suggest. of course, if you're in a fault state they might suggest you hire a PI to see if she's cheating. but, if you are still hoping for some sort of reconcilation down the road, i would not suggest this at all.

 

 

my biggest suggestion for you now, get a laywer, and sit down with them and work on the finances. see what the numbers say. do i think women who walk away from marriages that don't include adultery, abuse, neglect, indifference should be financially supported? no, not really. child support and maybe a touch of spousal but that's it. however, the courts don't see it that way. my friend's brother has 4 kids, his stbxw doesn't work, even though they are all school age. she left him, not for anyone else. and he forks over the utilities, rent, etc on TWO houses ( one for him and one for her and the kdis) PLUS, a TON of support each month. and i mean a TON.

 

there are a lot of factors involved. get with a laywer first, before you decide anything else........... if you would like more speific info feel free to PM me. i just went through all of this ( like 2 weeks ago).

 

i do continue to pray for you! keep your chin up :-)

[Surfer203]

Yeah.. you are getting the raw end of the deal. Why should she live the good life while you support her. It was HER decision to destroy the marriage not yours. She should suffer, not you. Same BS with my wife. Drives me nuts.

[worldgonewrong]

thanks, gang!

 

Just contacted a lawyer (free consultation) to get the million-dollar answer to the question of whether or not I can do this safely within legal parameters. Will see. I don't see why not since my upstanding support of her and the kids is proof enough; it's all a matter of public record. Will update later.

[Craig2425]

I agree with you need to end the cycle now.

I saw you pay for her phone so you can speak to the kids. If one of them is old Enough you can buy a go phone(real cheap) and make it so it only can call your number or 911.

Just a thought. Hang in there man

[Yasuandio]

Thank you, W_N.

 

IMPORTANT:

I've just had an epiphany.

I'm angry, disturbed, and this can't go on like this.

I am planning to send her an email (cc'ing ALL and sundry family and friend-wise) that I am going to move back in 1 month.

My name is on the lease, I pay for all bills (listed above) and expenses, and I have a good relationship with my children.

If she wants out of the marriage, fine. She can move to her parents' house and see how it feels. There is no reason - since I am the benefactor of everything in sustaining our family - for me to be not living in the very home (rented) that I am paying for.

I have lived for 5 months with my parents and I've got nothing. And I realized, this separation was HER idea and she should live with the consequences of her actions.

It's time for her to grow the f*ck up. It's like I awoke from a 5-month stupor this morning and felt ANGER for the first time.

 

any and all thoughts welcome.

I suddenly woke the f*ck up this morning.

 

 

WGW, I am very happy to see you are angry and all pissy with me. That was exactly my intent, mission accomplished. Im gonna take full credit for anger and cuss words in above "ephiphany" too! Someone's gotta do the heavy lifting, and I'm the perfect canidate - since you have actually respected my POV in the past. You are tough WGW. I know you can handle it.

 

Now, you are about to make another idiotic mistake. It is called "Showing Your Badge."

 

Let me explain before you screw yourself, if you haven't already. When you are planning to do something someone doesn't like, try to avoid letting them know in advance!

 

This is a legal manuvear, dear. You really think you can just invite yourself back, with her forwarning, after this much time? Dude, you are looking for big trouble.

 

Get a lawyer NOW. If you are moving back in (changing residences) if you let her know before you do it, obviously, she will say "No way, Jose." You gotta have legal advice.

 

If you just move in without saying anything, that presents more serious issues. You cannot just invade her space after agreeing to live elsewhere! Judge won't like that. If I was her, and you surprised me like that, and broke the living arrangment, I'd call the cops and get in front of a judge and have a TRO smacked on your rear end ASAP, for good reason, sonny boy.

 

You should have never left to start with.

 

Now, perhaps Im more concerned about your finances than you. Have you noticed anyone needing to "work less hours" since the separation? Duh. She is not exactly trying to emancipate herself, is she.

 

Food for thought: how long till your kids are 18? What are alimony laws in your state?

 

Sure, the bucks may be slim picken's now, but suppose you land a great job with higher pay and huge benifits post divorce? Did it ever occur to you that your first family (including her) may rightfully deserve a piece of the action? Sometimes people seek post divorce hearings to request the court for a modification due to economics and a change in the provider's income. Ever hear anything about that? Maybe you don't have assets now, do you plan to have any in the future? I mean, your wife has been a homemaker and spouse to you twenty plus years -- and you think it's all cool cause youare not tied to a mortgage or asset? Who bore your children? What did your wife give up to give you this family? What the heck do you think this is? She may not be top breadwinner, but she has chipped in pretty good. Dude, the Judge will appreciate that, and you better start appreciating it too. Suppose something happens to her? She could become disabled. Anything can happen. You have been married a long time. She and your children may have a right to live in the comfort and standard they are accustomed to, now -- or down the road, baby. (insurance, braces, school, vehicles, medical, broken bone, college fund, holidays, computers, gaming, CELL PHONES, blah, blah, blah). I hear it leaves you with near nothing when you've got kids. (Personally, Ive always prefered quadropeds to kids -- legally, they are chattle, and much cheaper, they totally always love you, and they don't grow up hating you). Please re-evaluate your position. I'm on no one's side. This is how is will be looked at objectively when your marriage contract ends. It is all business.

 

Perhaps I'm over-reacting. I hope the Pro Bono Divorce attorney gig works out for ya. Perhaps you are talking about the Co-laborative attorneys. No settlement - no attoney fees. It's not free, but it's in the attorney's interest to settle the matter -- or they don't get paid. Have it looked over by a shark though, made darn sure it cannot be modifed. There are tons of loopholes on this kind of stuff, and firms exist that are designed around this very issue.

 

One last thing for tonight. STOP broadcasting your marital business to everyone you know. It is discoverable, and could hurt you. Did it ever occur to you that you may be causing her unecessary public embassment through a wire communication? Jack, write it, then "save as draft.". Stop putting crap in writing, period. Save your emotional state for LS. Later on you are not going to be pleased with yourself. And, if I were her, I would ask for some big damages - cause you never know where these emails may turn up in the future.

 

 

 

 

I'm pray'in for ya man. Also, please note the advance apologies in previous post. I also apologize for this post. As W_N said (I think), you may not be ready for info and/or delivery method. (If it were me, I would want this, now, it's time.)

 

When I first joined LS, I posted, now that I look back on it, the most inane question or thread. I'm sure I had been pondering it and related topics in therapy and by obsessive mind for over 2 years then (and still now I am not divorced). It was either Debtman, Steadfast, or most likely Carhill, (one of the real straight forward vets) that gave me a response that PO'd me so big time, I couldn't even sleep. I was going to take him apart limb by limb with my wicked tounge - I wrote it over and over in my mind, seething with an "how dare you" tide - man, I was talking to myself, rehursing what I would conjure up in my "velvet eff" response to his post. It took a few days, but I finially realized the post was mf-ing dead on. It made total absolute sense -- and any further speculation on my part seemed even silly to me, in the context of the few sentences in that post. I am ashamed of myself, and so thankful for that post. Two years threapy with dumb-a&&ed rehashing stupid idiotic junk like this! That post, and some others have really changed my life.

 

I will forget my thoughts, due to my meds, if I don't write them to u immediately -- and all I have access to rite now is an iPhone). So, just ignore my posts for right now. Or upon your request, I can also discontinue posting on your thread. Up to you man. Yas

Edited June 23, 2011 by Yasuandio

[worldgonewrong]

Thanks for the thoughts, Yas.

I intend to play my next move with legal backing and with respect.

 

unrelated or maybe related, great movie dialogue from "The Life Aquatic" --

 

Ned Plimpton: I'm gonna fight you, Steve.

[steve hits Ned in the face]

Steve Zissou: You never say, "I'm gonna fight you, Steve." You just smile and act natural, and then you sucker-punch him.

Ned Plimpton: You fight your way, and I'll fight mine.

Steve Zissou: Oh, listen, Ned. Don't you try to...

[Ned hits Steve in the face]

Steve Zissou: I think your Team Zissou ring might've caught me on the lip.

[marqueemoon4]

love that movie.. I'm sorry dude you kinda gotta sucker punch her on this one.

[Yasuandio]

love that movie.. I'm sorry dude you kinda gotta sucker punch her on this one.

 

I'm sure everyone will totally agree with the we punch. But I'm afraid "respect" means he's gonna show his badge. And she certainly has coucil lined up.

 

Man, it was a close shave for me! Thank goodness I had my council ready, and we beat his to the court house the next morning. Like a total sucker, I believed him when he came up the idea to "draw straws" if we decided to get council. Then I saw him on the live AT&T current call records talking multiple times to a particular we before and after our convo. I called the number that night, and it was a law office specilizing in family law. He'd been talking to her for months!

 

The judge usually keeps the status quo, if it makes sense. I was barely back in town after being out of the country for three months.

 

 

I hope WGW doesn't wAit too long.

[daylightshade]

WGW, Yas, Debtman and others - I've been reading this thread for a couple of months like a book... Lots of wise thoughts were copied and pasted... Never commented though...

You situations are different from mine, but also very similar at the same time (separated since Feb. the 2nd after 25 years of marriage, but living in the same house).

WGW, brother, I am so feeling for you... Yas, I wish all the women were like you... A lot of smart tips and common sense...

I tried 180 technique myself, but now in Love Dare mode (for over 30 days). Nothing seems to really help so far, but I keep on trying inspired by your posts... At least I started to feel better and already reduced my AD dose to a 50%... PLease keep posting. Thanks

[Yasuandio]

Thank you daylightshade. I gotta work on my self control and delivery methodolgy. But I tend to s-p-e-l-l out the way I wish someone had done for me. I wish someone had slapped silly with a cold fish. I still fantize that maybe it's gonna be ok (gag).

 

These days, as I mentioned to WGW, I m Angry. The last tenants in our rental home were selling LSD and weed thru the window in the carport like an effing drive-thru Taco Bell. This 300g home could have been seized.

 

The place os a disaster. Last year, my husband expected me to get it taken care of for $300. Several pines trees we down and you couldn't even see the house. I bardered with some kids for free rent, then gave a reduced rate to what I thought was a great young man - turns out was not. It cost 400 to clean this people's mess and take away Their junk.

 

I have paid a guy to do carpentry $750 on the house, and now that my painter and I arrive, the tiny bit of carpenter he did do is substandard, and quotes for correction are in the 800-1000 area. Normal companies can't even look at it cause of new EPA guidelines with lead based paint.

 

Then long-time painter also disapponts me with attitude. He came up with the price, not me. I cannot have effing crybabies here. So I agreed to assist on the job. My work clearly demonstrated the quality I always expect. He knows me - he has worked for me over 2 years. He told me what I wanted on a door "couldn't be done!". I took the ripper sandpapper and smoothed out the affected door till it felt like a baby's bottom in 10 minuits or less.

 

I had to perforf same type of demos for Hispanic carpenter. I.e., this is how I fitted a myder when I built a birdhouse in junior high 30 years ago duh. The guy has no level, no square. He bought the nicest treated wood, but he never fail till split one to two places where he nails corners.

 

I'm losing it. $800 for this trashy work, and all pretend Im being too picky. It is so much. This is just an example.

 

Then painter decides he wants all the money paid with post dated checks cause it's more better that way. Mind you, I had just given him $1500 cashier check that day , and two more payments were not due until july and august. Plus, he hired the carpenter. I didn't want him to sacrdice like that - so I paid carpenter. Then he deny that entire arrangment. I fired him at 12 midnight. Why doesn't anyone trust me? The agreement was made before we left. I was ready to stop the job at the alligator bites and come back when the dough is flowing again. The problem. Language barrier. I shissled out advertisement for Reno of this classic home with newspaper, Sherwin Williams (and 30% discount) etc., hoping to get some stuff free (like gutters). It is a great absentee Landlord story. But all my amigo was hearing was his next check. He didn't get it that was his stab at a business opportunity in a rich college town! People with older homes are not going to pay for governmental lead testing and HVAC suits when there ain't no effing lead!

 

Got it. Head shake does not mean comprende. Husband is Greek. It took seeing him on the stand solo to realize I have been covering for an idiot for 30 plus years. It's not like I could walk up there and step in, saying "I'll handle this!". I had to sit there and let him cut his throat. He might get himself put in jail. I was so stunned and alarmed to see him speak on his own, I almost vomited. Everything is a total shock to me!

 

Either I am loco, missing a leg, or plain out dumb -- maybe all of the above. I must have done something really really bad in a past lifetime. God has put some damn tough situTions in my lap. I have spent the

week sleeping dAy and night I am so frustrated and depressed. I don't have tool, equipment or ladders. I drive a little Z3 -- and don't really know how I'll get my dogs home. My 90 year old mom is having trouble -- and it is like totally dysfunctional, I know what to do. My bi-polar was at an all time high at the beginning of the project, now at an all time low. While that little Natzi husband tools around in his convertable, and bought an X5 BMW SUV. Of couse he won't let me use it to get my stuff here. What the F am I doing? I take 15 different medications, I have a Ph.D., and I am 50+ years old.

 

Guess who gets to finish painting the house now? Ms. Big Torret's Sydrome mouth who has developed a huge temper control issue.

 

My husband is not paying for this restoration. I saved the money from my temp. monthly alimony and my disability checks. Now that I that the house appeared as if alligators had diagonally biten each eve off the home, I had to pull some credit.

 

You know, I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. I got thru college painting interior, exteriors, and gymnasasium murals. I am tough as nails. I may not be as fast - but, believe you me, I can effing hang.

 

When I get a grip on this job WGW, I'm gonna post my pussy BS concerns on your "separation jungle" site. I want you to disentitrate me! Please, I live foe pain!

 

I'm hoping the judge will look favorable at this accomplishment - if I don't lose it first. Im angry. I begged for my check a couple days early so we could get a carpenter, and husband took five days to respond to my calls. Before I left town to handle this, I saw him, once again, driving in my neighbohood with a blonde haired girl i've seen him with several times. That make's me angrier. All these workers wanna get paid. And most jobs depend on other jobs to be completed. That is, the boots in the roof have to be replaced before I replaster the ceilings in bath (and remove cauck some idiot put in the lathe).

 

Our assets going to hell. We milked this house and another to buy the franchise - now he doesn't care if we lose the homes. I'm so mad. Sorry my temper has invaded my advice WGW.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Yasuandio

[updown]

yeah, WGW, whatever you do..... DO NOT, and i repeat, DO NOT just show back up stuff in tow and plan on moving back in. don't give her a months head up either.

 

you've been out for months. in my situation it had been weeks and he did that to me. it was NOT good. needless to say, he was out again within 4 months and we're getting divorced.

 

just sit as tight as you can till you talk with a lawyer. see what they tell you to do.

[What_Next]

WGW, if you are still reading, how are you doing buddy? I'm still thinking of you.

[starting2wakeup]

WGW, if you are still reading, how are you doing buddy? I'm still thinking of you.

 

Ditto. How goes it?