Through the Separation Jungle

[worldgonewrong]

thanks, debtman & marqueemoon4!

 

full disclosure: late February, I sent her an email in which I laid out my marital loyalty and how I did not want or expect a reply from her whatsoever. After that, I went 180/LC on her. And I notice certain subtle changes now, day by day. The more time I back off, keep my mouth shut, and just do the basics (re support of kids/bills), then the less time she has to ponder me being a monster. Simple.

And yeah, I foresee her throwing another monkeywrench at me eventually, but for now -- by virtue of me not being so present emotionally -- I want her to notice that I respect THE SPACE between us. (In fact, I am learning to really LIKE the space between us, as it's healing for me.)

[What_Next]

It sounds to me like not only are you utilizing the 180 to your advantage, but you understand just what it is supposed to give both sides.

 

The one very common thread that binds many of our situations together is that we are forced to do what seems very counter-intuitive.

[worldgonewrong]

The one very common thread that binds many of our situations together is that we are forced to do what seems very counter-intuitive.

 

Absolutely. That's the hard part.

And it's a matter of reconditioning all-around.

But once the new 180 routine kicks in, it's not so bad.

I think people tend to fear (naturally!) something that runs counter to everything they've been doing...for fear that it's not gonna work, when really NOTHING has been working before, so you've nothing to lose by going 180!

Plus, one's self-respect starts to heal again. You become aware of how much sh*t you willingly ATE previously, and you don't want to be that person again.

 

p.s. I'm not setting myself up as Mr. Perfect, btw. There might be a time when I will f*ck up again and see my resolve weaken a bit. We're all human.

Edited March 7, 2011 by worldgonewrong

[worldgonewrong]

Been doing some evaluation regarding the time pre-break-up. And I say this without any rancor -- more like indifference and a shrug of the shoulders -- but I'm a teeny bit convinced that she had an EA, however fleeting. She went alone to a friend's wedding in October and I'm convinced she met an 'old flame' there, which probably strengthened her resolve to kick me to the curb in the months that followed. (I have a vague sense of who this guy is -- obviously a dick for preying on a married woman at her low hour.) There were little cryptic notes and poems she was scribbling down.

 

Whether or not I ever get the facts is of no consequence to me.

I don't want my hunch to be validated, because it would serve no purpose.

[debtman]

Wouldn't be surprised. My wife's EA was certainly the straw that broke our M's back. The relationship was far from perfect due to both of our actions, but she wasn't convinced there was something better until OM came along, then, within 2 weeks, she told me the M was over and we were just incompatible. Of course, she said it had nothing to do with OM. And, when I had talked to him about his D and his W, he was saying how he would never with D on anyone, how hard it was, how tough on the kids, etc. A couple of hypocrites...they deserve each other. I just wish my kids didn't have to spend so much time with the two of them.

 

I called last night to say good-night to the kids and she was thanking me for being so understanding through all of this and "dealing" with it so well (right after my 4-year old son was telling me how he was having fun playing games with OM). She said she was glad we could get along and still be friends. After I didn't reply, she asked if I still considered us friends and I told her that I didn't think we ever really had a chance to be friends since we hooked up the first night we met and immediately jumped into a relationship.

 

Today I got an email from her saying "When we were talking last night, you said you didn't think we were friends and I felt terrible when you said that, because all these years, I always thought that despite all of our problems over the years, the one thing you and I could do was just feel comfortable with each other - and that's kind of how I've been feeling lately - as though we've gotten that "comfortable" groove back. When you said that, I couldn't help but wonder if all of this is just an act and that you felt that you and I never were friends and never will be."

 

I wrote her back (although, in retrospect, and sticking to LC, I probably shouldn't) and just said "I definitely feel that we were "friends" as far as feeling comfortable with each other and understanding each other goes. I was just saying that we didn't really have a chance to know each other as "friends" outside a romantic relationship since we sort of jumped right into a relationship the first time we met."

 

It seems like every time we talk and the conversation goes outside the kids (which I sort of support for now until we get the agreement signed and I don't have to worry so much about her becoming vindictive and dis-agreeable) I think she feels that we're "friends" again just because I'm being friendly. Once the agreement is signed I can stick much more to LC, although, I still have to be friendly since I'm hoping we can, down the road, split time evenly with the kids so I get more time with them and can cut back on child support some.

 

I just want to get the paperwork done. At least I'm back in the house now and am getting my stuff moved in and organized...and piling her stuff up on the porch for her to take away...

[worldgonewrong]

Your STBX is pushing that "friends" bullsh*t to absolve herself of any guilt. Gad, that is so galling.

[What_Next]

debtman, when I read your story I am honestly and completely gobsmacked, I really am. I am in awe of your ability to stay the course and interact with your ex-wife. You are a better man than I could ever hope to be.

[debtman]

wgw, absolutely, makes me crazy sometimes.

 

w_n, thanks, after everything you've gone through and everything I've learned from your posts and advice, I appreciate that. If it weren't for the kids, I know I wouldn't be dealing so well.

 

I have moments of complete rage and frustration, like tonight, when I was unpacking and had to empty a bunch of her dirty clothes out of the laundry hamper. Pulling out underwear and other clothes that I used to take off her, shoving them in a garbage bag to put out on the porch for her and spewing epithets at her. It just makes me so angry sometimes and, between the lack of sleep, stress of the move, stress of having to stay focused on finances I tend to get overwhelmed, especially the last few days moving in. But, I'm back in my house, with my dog, my amazing neighbors and tonight, my kids.

 

Life is too short to spend any more time than I already have being mad at her or about the situation (easy to say, hard to do sometimes). I have to keep reminding myself to let it go, focus on me and look to the moment at hand and the future. Life is spectacular, my kids are amazing and the future has some incredible adventures in store.

 

Thanks...

[What_Next]

How are you doing today worldgonewrong?

[worldgonewrong]

How are you doing today worldgonewrong?

 

I'm doing alright, my man. I'm touched that you asked!

 

Good as time as any to share some more notes:

 

* late February, I discovered that she was about to have her lawyer put a Summons on me, to get things rolling for a Limited Divorce. Two days later, she canceled the Summons, probably because she does not have a case to make me out as a monster.

 

* last week, I put my foot down (nicely, but firmly) about something, and she proceeded to get her lawyer to send me a threatening letter. Haven't seen the letter, mind you, as the schmuck sent it Certified and I'm not signing for his baloney.

 

Her attempts at grinding me down are just more annoying than anything else. I've done everything by the book, been open and obliging,but she's hell-bent on making all of this LEGAL and lawyer-ly -- and she's blissfully unaware or doesn't care that 99% of these divorce lawyers are just bottom-feeders who lick their lips at the thought of another marriage biting the dust; they WANT the marriage to fail, it's in their best interest to stoke the fires of discontent.

 

So anyway, heh, long way of replying -- I'm doing OK. But I internally resent her for trying to make me miserable. She's a sick person, and I say that without acrimony; only a sick person would go to such crazy lengths to grind down another person whom they've known/loved for 20 years.

 

That said, she will not get one iota of emotion out of me. She will never know. My 180/NC persona is iron-clad. While she's plotting miserable, petty maneuvers, I'm busy getting better. As each day passes, whether or not she some day finds me attractive again becomes less & less of a concern to me.

 

...and you, sir???

[worldgonewrong]

Life is too short to spend any more time than I already have being mad at her or about the situation (easy to say, hard to do sometimes). I have to keep reminding myself to let it go, focus on me and look to the moment at hand and the future. Life is spectacular, my kids are amazing and the future has some incredible adventures in store.

 

Amen, man.

 

I look at it like this, too: my Life is probably halfway over. Am I gonna burn the rest of it up in torment and self-doubt? Eff that. There's happiness to be sown and discovered still.

[worldgonewrong]

-- and she's blissfully unaware or doesn't care that 99% of these divorce lawyers are just bottom-feeders who lick their lips at the thought of another marriage biting the dust; they WANT the marriage to fail, it's in their best interest to stoke the fires of discontent.

 

And further to what I wrote above:

if our marriage fails, then it will fail on its own between me and her.

NOT because some sh*t-bag lawyer hustled it along.

[What_Next]

Worldgonewrong, I am happy (sort of) that you appear on top of things. It's amazing that you and debtman are able to keep your composure. On d-day I literally flipped out... Then again I was away on a business trip, standing in hotel parking lot. When I came back home I was not much more calm. I was so full of anger and rage. It took months for it to subside.

 

It definitely sounds like your wife is hell bent on making the process as hard as possible. I'd have to question why though. If she really wants out, wouldn't she do everything in her power to make it go by quickly?

 

Debtman, as for your situation, well your ex-wife is still under that think fog, she thinks all is well, but it is far from it, only pushed below the surface. I understand your desire to remain civil for the kids, but if her new "relationship" falls apart (and you and I know it will) and she comes crying and whining to you, how are you going to react?

 

I know I'm inter-twining 2 threads, but heck if it helps occupy your mind a little worldgonewrong, where's the harm right?

[worldgonewrong]

I've got no prob whatsoever w/intertwining threads, W_N!

 

You wrote, " It's amazing that you and debtman are able to keep your composure."

 

Well, here's the thing - when your realize that composure/self-control/self-respect are ALL you've got left to salvage from the burning wreckage, you gotta make it a point to HOLD ONTO that. It's like a baby; you have to protect it. (I hope that doesn't sound too Charlie Sheen-ish, heh.)

 

"If she really wants out, wouldn't she do everything in her power to make it go by quickly?"

 

Because a lawyer is an authority figure to her. She trusts authority figures implicitly, like therapists. She would not be able to tell a good one from a bad one. If I hadn't met her, she probably would've ended up in a cult somewhere in Arizona.

[What_Next]

Because a lawyer is an authority figure to her. She trusts authority figures implicitly, like therapists. She would not be able to tell a good one from a bad one. If I hadn't met her, she probably would've ended up in a cult somewhere in Arizona.

 

That's a HUGE advantage for you then. With any luck she has found a lawyer that needed to write on their arm to pass the bar exam

[marqueemoon4]

I've got no prob whatsoever w/intertwining threads, W_N!

 

You wrote, " It's amazing that you and debtman are able to keep your composure."

 

Well, here's the thing - when your realize that composure/self-control/self-respect are ALL you've got left to salvage from the burning wreckage, you gotta make it a point to HOLD ONTO that. It's like a baby; you have to protect it. (I hope that doesn't sound too Charlie Sheen-ish, heh.)

 

"If she really wants out, wouldn't she do everything in her power to make it go by quickly?"

 

Because a lawyer is an authority figure to her. She trusts authority figures implicitly, like therapists. She would not be able to tell a good one from a bad one. If I hadn't met her, she probably would've ended up in a cult somewhere in Arizona.

 

man, my ex is the exact same way.. she completely lacks judgement skills, so whoever she thinks has the best angle on something she'll go with it 100%.

[Yasuandio]

WGW,

 

Please dont get upset. I just have to tell you what's on mind here since your last post. Keep you lips zipped about what you suspect. Don't get so easily sucked into the "new affair," known as the EA. Think about it, how do PA's begin? An EA is a little easier to swallow than a PA. However, if you apply your common sense, an EA is just what it's always stood for: Extramarital Affair. Once it gets going, you don't just put the brakes on, duh. You meet up for coffee to see if there is chemistry. That's what I've been reading. Makes perfectly logical sense, right?

 

I know you don't want to know. It's easier that way. It prolongs hope. However, if your suspicions are correct, the wrong person has been thrown out of the house! See what your other supporters say.

 

Here's what I think you needed to do yesterday: put a Sherlock on the computer, or get some kind of key that will copy the harddrive (I don't know what it's called); go on-line and research the cellphone bill, any research do on a different computer. Don't call anyone - do a reverse look-up when you narrow down the pattern of unusual calls (I like Intellus). Reseach the guy on the Internet - or at least get his phone numbers from Intellis. You can make a blocked call during the day to see if a woman is there (star 67).

 

You better find out dude. Unless you want your kids to have a new daddy. If your suspitiions turn out to be true, this is also known as adultry, and US courts will have sympathy for you. Again, if there is any chance, you need to get yourself back in that house ASAP. Possession is 9/10's of the law.

 

This is a great read. You can see the basic definitions on the web. How Can I Forgive You? The Courage to Forgive, the Freedom Not To

Author: Janus Abrahms Spring, Ph.D.

[debtman]

That's funny, because my W is getting her advice from OM, because he's been in the middle of his D for almost a year now and they still haven't signed anything and have spent over $10k on lawyers, so he must know what he's talking about, right?

 

Because I maintained my composure and didn't let her see when I freaked out (and believe me, I did...and still do), we were able to go to a mediator and will have the entire D settled for less than $1k each.

 

w_n, I've put quite a bit of thought into that and have come up with MANY things I would say at that point, but, in the interest of keeping things civil, I'm going to remind her of ALL the reasons she gave me in emails about why we just can't be together and why our relationship will never work. Her own words.

 

I made the decision several months ago (a big part of turning my attitude around) that I can't ever go back to her and can't ever subject myself to being treated like that again. I've learned what I need to do in a relationship to avoid letting things get to the point they were at and, hopefully, the next person I get involved with will be interested in constantly working with me to maintain a healthy relationship from the beginning.

 

I don't deserve to be treated the way she treated me. I may not have been the ideal partner, but I was always kind to her, never did anything out of maliciousness or spite and was always trying to encourage her...heck, even up to the point where I encouraged her to get out and do things and make new friends...like OM...

 

Besides, I can't imagine her ever coming to me and admitting she was wrong. That only happened once in our entire marriage and it took her about 8 months to get to it then. She's too insecure and stubborn to be able to admit fault on big things like that. She may not even ever admit it to herself, but, that's not my problem.

 

And, as Charlie would say, "Tiger blood and Adonis DNA are all you need!"

[worldgonewrong]

Yasuandio- I don't have any access to her cellphone records, etc.

I hear what you're saying, but she's honestly too busy (with work and 2 kids to mind) to have any kind of big affair. Mind you, my original post was a sort of paranoid hunch.

And our mutual, VERY CLOSE friends have confirmed that she's not cheating.

[worldgonewrong]

Perhaps a dumb question with an obvious answer, but...

 

Should the dumpee (me) even suggest MC to the dumper (her)?

 

Or just continue w/the 180/NC?

[What_Next]

That would highly depend on the specific situation.

 

Given what I know about your situation I would say no at this point. Now if it were to come up should there be a conversation, you could let your wife know that you are open to the concept as part of the larger picture.

[starting2wakeup]

Should the dumpee (me) even suggest MC to the dumper (her)?

 

That is a tough one. I (the dumpee) suggested MC to my W. Told her if she was up to it to let me know. She agreed. The first 10 minutes of our 1 and only session were eye opening to say the least. The councilor asked us both what we wanted. I wanted to work on the marriage, my W, did not. Point blank, in plain English, she did not want to be married. Right then and there I knew where I stood. I didn't like it. It was not at all what I wanted to hear, but at least I knew how she felt, at least for that moment.

 

Since then things have gotten more complicated but it helped. Having a mediator there to cut to the heart of the situation helped. So I would say don't suggest MC unless you are prepared for the ugly truth, whatever that may be. It might not hurt to let her know that you are open to it, but keep in mind that going to a MC to save the M only works if both parties take it seriously. My W didn't.

[worldgonewrong]

The first 10 minutes of our 1 and only session were eye opening to say the least. The councilor asked us both what we wanted. I wanted to work on the marriage, my W, did not. Point blank, in plain English, she did not want to be married. Right then and there I knew where I stood.

 

Yup. I experienced this in one of our few sessions we had pre-split.

A sucker-punch to the kidneys.

 

So between you and W_N, I'm just going to cool off and let her initiate it (if ever!). I won't hold my breath.

[worldgonewrong]

Another question:

 

Since the day we separated, in January, I've stopped wearing my wedding ring. Should I wear it at all?

 

Would it just further piss her off if she saw it on my finger?

[debtman]

I took mine off the day I moved out and put it in her jewelry box. She can keep it...