For OW/OM who made it to a legitimate relationship with MM...

[OWoman]

Hey Mino - hope you're enjoying your holiday...

 

You also write my A was not smooth sailing... lol, I dont get that? It was wonderful like everybody eles! Sure we had our trials, especially when I started wanting a future together. I didnt want to be the ow ever...The rough sailing came in after he made his attempt to move and then ran back home. Thats when my heart broke each and every time. Thats the times I came to LS for advice. I came to heal..But had it been rough from begining to end, this A would not ever have lasted 6 years!

 

The bolded part is what I was referring to - the three leavings before the D, the going back home - the way you tried so hard, but had to watch as he suffered missing his child... and then returned home. That was hard - the almost having, and having it pulled out of your grasp when you thought you had it... I remember that. You sweated blood for this guy! (I hope he knows...)

 

Anyway, as I said, all As are different, and people need to consider their own and their own prospects rather than getting too hung up on the As of others. Some may go down your path, and end as yours ends (however it plays out) and some may go down my path, and end as mine ends (however that ends, eventually... we're far from dead, so who can predict?) but ultimately everyone has to make their own way, with the information available to them both from outside sources like LS and from what they observe and experience in their own As.

[donnamaybe]

And the relevance of this.... is? It's neither relevant to the topic of the thread, nor to the poster against whom it was directed, so why state it?

Actually, the topic is about A's that make it to a full relationship, and discussing the pitfalls of certain aspects of A situations and how they could affect a future relationship in the rare case when an MM/MW leaves their marriage is most definitely on topic.

 

It does no one any good to paint rainbows and sunshine for them just to make them feel better. Sure, we all want them to feel better, but some people think the way to do that is to blow sunshine up you-know-where, while others feel the way to help someone feel better is to remain reality based and give THIER honest opinions of A situations and then provide a cushion if they fall, or support if they choose to take control of their life and not remain at the whim of someone who won't give up their spouse for them. Sometimes, in order for a person to have a good long term outcome for THEM, they have to take the long, hard road and not just put on a brave face and slap a bandaid on the issue.

[OWoman]

Actually, the topic is about A's that make it to a full relationship,

 

Actually, it's for OWs who made it to a legitimate R with their MM. It's not about

 

discussing the pitfalls of certain aspects of A situations and how they could affect a future relationship in the rare case when an MM/MW leaves their marriage is most definitely on topic.

 

however much you try to make it so. That's threadjacking.

[donnamaybe]

Is there anyone out there who actually had a happy ending with their MM/MW...is other words, you ended up in a legitimate relationship?

I have been with MM for nearly 4 years and I love him. I want a life, a real life with him. My question to those of you who have gone down this road is this...how did you get to this point? Did it happen naturally? Did you force it? Did you give an ultimatum? Did MM/MW finally fall in love with you? Is there hope?

Since "is there hope" is one of the questions, and it doesn't always have to be an OW/OM who holds all the universals answers to every topic regarding A's, it would behoove the OP of the thread to not merely answer "yes." Of course there's hope, but there are also pitfalls, and one would be negligent toward the OP to not discuss them.

 

We obviously disagree on that, and that's fine.

[jthorne]

Nevermind.... Donna said it better.

Edited February 9, 2011 by jthorne

[BeachBetty]

We obviously have different standards and criteria for "dismal".

 

For example, if someone I was dating lied to me about their marital status for a year, I would think that the prospects for a healthy relationship were pretty dismal.

 

I think you have different standards and criteria for lots of things.

 

Like your example is straight out of left field...

 

Maybe it's time for a coffee break?

[jthorne]

I think you have different standards and criteria for lots of things.

Indeed I do!

Thank you for noticing btw.

Edited February 9, 2011 by jthorne

[NoIDidn't]

I am not sure why you got all stirred up, but no one said "you" were not being truthful. I didn't see anyone say that. And if your H hasn't paid any money to his ex wife, then he is definitely not the norm. I am confused as to how you can even claim anything differently. You keep insisting that you were never hidden, never a secret, never compromised your values, etc... no one was claiming otherwise. This thread isn't about you so not sure why you are so worked up.

 

 

What's that old Southern saying about throwing a stone into a pack of dogs? The one that yelps is the one that got hit.

[Mino]

I guess the reason i posted was to give some of you, who have mm with children and sahm a chance to see first hand of what could be your life. I know that during my 6 years of our A, hope is what kept me going.... The picture of what life would be like once we were together. The reason I try to be as open as possible is that for the ow on the board who Have that "hope " that I had , that you come to reality and know that most likly. if they do leave it will BE ROUGH SAILING....Few will have the situation where its pretty cut and dry, where he has no responsibilities, or huge sums to pay out. So While your sitting there putting your life on hold and waiting, take the time, to also think about what your life will be like if you are together. Are you ok with all that I had to accept? Are you still willing to be second or third? Maybe not in all circumstances anymore, but in some. I guess I have also grown... I am in a different place I was in 6 years ago. My child is 23, graduated collage and lives thousands of miles away. My guy child is not even in first grade. I am looking forward to grandchildren, retiring, and traveling. He has really just begun... Retirement, lol dont think he will be able to afford it. By the time his child is done with collage he will be about 70.. yikes! No take a moment, each situation is different. But take a moment and really look at the big picture, all of it, Can you see 10 years, how about 20 years down the road? Then ask yourself, do you still want to take that journey? Good luck to all those who said yes

[Mino]

What's that old Southern saying about throwing a stone into a pack of dogs? The one that yelps is the one that got hit.

lol, I see you havent lost your sense of humor!! Thanks for everything NoIDidnt! You always were a big help, even if It was not always what I wanted to hear.

[NoIDidn't]

lol, I see you havent lost your sense of humor!! Thanks for everything NoIDidnt! You always were a big help, even if It was not always what I wanted to hear.

 

I love old country sayings! LOL.

 

Anything said was in the spirit you mention above. To help with being objective, not at all to sway you from your chosen course. But hopefully to add a little light to the road.

[carrie999]

Wow, is that so? How did you calculate it to come up with this result? 1.25%?

 

That was my first thought. How do you conduct a survey like this? You'd need to find a sizable sample of anonymous people who could honestly say they were in an affair for a given time (let's just say one year), and an equal number in a "normal" (non-affair) relationship for the same amount of time...all of whom who had the intention of marriage. Then you would have to follow all of them for a number of years (let's say five) just to find out if they actually ended up married. Only at that point could you make a reasonable comparison, percentage-wise, between the two groups.

 

And even then the study would be incredibly difficult in terms of fact-checking, and would be incredibly flawed in terms of making assumptions about both groups being honest about intentions, relationship status, etc.

[carrie999]

Interesting, because where I come from this percentage is a great deal higher. Approx 80% of the A's ended up in M.

 

Equally interesting. Is this based on five people you personally know?

[carrie999]

There was a thread on LS some time back asking fOWs whose MMs had left their Ms, who were now together with them, how long the A had lasted before the MM left the M. IIRC the average was about three years.

 

Yes, there are a few of us, but only a couple still active here.

 

It happened naturally. A couple of years in, we realised we were in love and decided we wanted to be together. We both needed to get certain things in place in order for that to be possible - his D was only one such thing - but we made a plan and acted on it. About 3 years into the A he left his M. A year later his D was final and we got M. We've been together for more than 6 years, lived together full-time almost three, and been M for two. There were no ultimata - we both had options, and we both chose to exercise the option to be together.

 

If you are wondering whether there is hope - what does your MM say? Have you discussed the future, and what you both want?

 

This sounds like a progression that would actually work. Years to develop the A into something more than just a fantasy, and years more before it became a reality.

 

For us, the first few weeks were basically spent in denial that we were actually cheating. As we grew closer and things became more serious, we both freaked out and almost stopped it. Now we're in the "suspension of reality" state where we recognize this is real, but aren't ready yet to make permanent decisions. MM isn't happy with BW, but can't leave. However, if the decision was forced (i.e.; she found out or I left) he would forever wonder "what if?" which (in his words) would lead to the destruction of his marriage, with or without me in the picture. If I wanted to force his hand at this point, I'd leave and just let the cards fall as they may...

 

So there really is no right answer. You can wait it out, or you can leave him. In all likelihood, he'll make the same decision in the end. If I had enough and left, I would probably date, but wouldn't fully move on until he showed that he was no closer to leaving his wife after months of NC.

 

Congratulations to you, OWoman! I'm glad this worked out for you.

[BB07]

I guess the reason i posted was to give some of you, who have mm with children and sahm a chance to see first hand of what could be your life. I know that during my 6 years of our A, hope is what kept me going.... The picture of what life would be like once we were together. The reason I try to be as open as possible is that for the ow on the board who Have that "hope " that I had , that you come to reality and know that most likly. if they do leave it will BE ROUGH SAILING....Few will have the situation where its pretty cut and dry, where he has no responsibilities, or huge sums to pay out. So While your sitting there putting your life on hold and waiting, take the time, to also think about what your life will be like if you are together. Are you ok with all that I had to accept? Are you still willing to be second or third? Maybe not in all circumstances anymore, but in some. I guess I have also grown... I am in a different place I was in 6 years ago. My child is 23, graduated collage and lives thousands of miles away. My guy child is not even in first grade. I am looking forward to grandchildren, retiring, and traveling. He has really just begun... Retirement, lol dont think he will be able to afford it. By the time his child is done with collage he will be about 70.. yikes! No take a moment, each situation is different. But take a moment and really look at the big picture, all of it, Can you see 10 years, how about 20 years down the road? Then ask yourself, do you still want to take that journey? Good luck to all those who said yes

 

Mino I LOVE your post. Why? Because there is a lot of wisdom there and it's just the truth of you and your life. You have no agenda, you haven't any reason to tilt one way or the other, it's your life as it is now. You are letting us see the reality of where you are now and where you've been. It's refreshing to not have to wade through the BS.

I wish you happiness Mino.......

[dreamingoftigers]

Dreaming, I think your predictive text ran away with you....

 

Drat, I just got this phone last week and it has been driving me crazy! I used to edit for a living and it just says what it wants to. It also sometimes allows me to spell like a high school boy!

 

I did mean strong.

[dreamingoftigers]

Stats are simply results of small sample sizes for research. As most people know, research is skewed by people being honest (or not) and people having a personal stake in the results. Also, for it to be valid, it has to be duplicated which I don't believe has ever happened.

 

As for basing life on stats, why even get married then? You have a 50% change of staying married and a 50% chance of getting divorced (higher in other studies).

 

I make choices in my life that I can feel good about. Other people are perfectly entitled to make whatever choice is best for them. But to argue that statistics are going to affect a personal outcome is invalid at best. Statistics are events that happened to a specific group, not to me.

 

My outcome is what matters to me. Not what happened to someone

else.

 

1. The divorce rate here in Canada has frozen at a standard 37% and is slowly dropping due to more people waiting longer fir marriage and cohabitation her often grants the same rights as marriage so many in my generation that aren't as committed to the idea are free go hang back and say "why bother?"

 

2. Marriages between Mormons have a 13% divorce rate. I find that to be a very acceptable risk considering all of the factors that go into a marriage of that nature, plus not being as young or naive as most of the Mormons that get married to begin with.

 

3. I live my life more according to what works in general. I can strongly, surely say that I have lived my life in a number of exceptional ways and sadly discovered that I am rarely the exception to the rule. I would rather trust what rational thinking backed by numbers offers me then to walk around thinking that I am done how different or that my relationship is somehow less fragile (because we have such deep feelings for one another or because we have such a great history). These things can change or be forgotten. A person's true character is what carries a relationship forth. Character can be modelledAnd absorbed or grown under great duress. My character was grown under duress and accountability, I believe that I am very close to what would be considered a healthy long- term partner. People who cannot respect themselves enough not to lower themselves to actions that are deceptive or shameful have a much lower chance of facing and perseveringly through the personal trials any long-term relationship can bring. If someone is dependent of their partner to be the joy endured in the relationship, they will only drain that joy from them and fail to replenish it. Again not the best odds for happiness.

[donnamaybe]

Mino I LOVE your post. Why? Because there is a lot of wisdom there and it's just the truth of you and your life. You have no agenda, you haven't any reason to tilt one way or the other, it's your life as it is now. You are letting us see the reality of where you are now and where you've been. It's refreshing to not have to wade through the BS.

I wish you happiness Mino.......

Seconded. I always love seeing happy endings, whether it be an A turned into a GOOD R or single people meeting and finding a great love or someone leaving a bad R and getting stronger. Doesn't matter. It's all good. However, refusing to acknowledge the bad along with the good just to keep up some kind of facade doesn't do anyone on this forum any good.

 

Mino, you're a very strong minded gal to share it all so candidly. You obviously care more that people are helped by your posts than sticking to an agenda.

 

I hope everything works out for you!

[Mino]

Seconded. I always love seeing happy endings, whether it be an A turned into a GOOD R or single people meeting and finding a great love or someone leaving a bad R and getting stronger. Doesn't matter. It's all good. However, refusing to acknowledge the bad along with the good just to keep up some kind of facade doesn't do anyone on this forum any good.

 

Mino, you're a very strong minded gal to share it all so candidly. You obviously care more that people are helped by your posts than sticking to an agenda.

 

I hope everything works out for you!

Thank you donnamaybe ! I know every R is different. I know that when i discovered LS, I couldnt read the post for about 2 weeks. I was shocked... I was in my affairfog. Thinking it wont be too much longer, our R is nothing like what people are writing about on LS.. My guy is different... I thought, What a wierd website, and wierd issues...lol... But I had to come back to this site. Curiosity got me... Today I read and think, "oh yeah... been there, went thru that too. Ouch! Looking back, I see so many things I wished I had done differently... Today there is no way in hell, I would go through 6 years of pain, not for ANYBODY! Looking back, I guess because all the emotional turmoil that one goes through in an A, i never really thought things through completely. It was always , whats next? the next deadline, the next issue from him. ..etc. I guess the view on top of the mountain is different from the bottom...If my story helps anyone... I am happy : ) because at the end, an affair is just not worth all the time and suffering that came with it...

[Spark1111]

Thank you donnamaybe ! I know every R is different. I know that when i discovered LS, I couldnt read the post for about 2 weeks. I was shocked... I was in my affairfog. Thinking it wont be too much longer, our R is nothing like what people are writing about on LS.. My guy is different... I thought, What a wierd website, and wierd issues...lol... But I had to come back to this site. Curiosity got me... Today I read and think, "oh yeah... been there, went thru that too. Ouch! Looking back, I see so many things I wished I had done differently... Today there is no way in hell, I would go through 6 years of pain, not for ANYBODY! Looking back, I guess because all the emotional turmoil that one goes through in an A, i never really thought things through completely. It was always , whats next? the next deadline, the next issue from him. ..etc. I guess the view on top of the mountain is different from the bottom...If my story helps anyone... I am happy : ) because at the end, an affair is just not worth all the time and suffering that came with it...

 

Whatever the outcome, I hope it all works out for you; the way you hope it does!

[pureinheart]

Personally I think it's easier to believe that the MP doesn't leave the M and never gets together with their AP...believe what you want. I live in a basically conservative area, especially for the amount of people and the extremely large city in which I am very close to.

 

Both of my parents M their AP's and were M for over 30 yrs with them. Alot of my friends got together with their AP's and left their S for them, and some got M, some lived together, some stayed together, some didn't...fact is it does happen.

 

You can play games, stay in denial, make fun of me, it doesn't make much difference. You can say my numbers don't add up, I could care less, it's what I saw. Period.

 

The ones that don't work or are abusive, they should split up with them...never tolerate abuse.

Edited February 11, 2011 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

Stats are simply results of small sample sizes for research. As most people know, research is skewed by people being honest (or not) and people having a personal stake in the results. Also, for it to be valid, it has to be duplicated which I don't believe has ever happened.

 

As for basing life on stats, why even get married then? You have a 50% change of staying married and a 50% chance of getting divorced (higher in other studies).

 

I make choices in my life that I can feel good about. Other people are perfectly entitled to make whatever choice is best for them. But to argue that statistics are going to affect a personal outcome is invalid at best. Statistics are events that happened to a specific group, not to me.

 

My outcome is what matters to me. Not what happened to someone else.

 

Or, as I read in an article yesterday, "Statistics are good (predictors) for populations, not for individuals"

 

Thank you....

[pureinheart]

Equally interesting. Is this based on five people you personally know?

 

A lot more than five:D

[BeachBetty]

Thank you donnamaybe ! I know every R is different. I know that when i discovered LS, I couldnt read the post for about 2 weeks. I was shocked... I was in my affairfog. Thinking it wont be too much longer, our R is nothing like what people are writing about on LS.. My guy is different... I thought, What a wierd website, and wierd issues...lol... But I had to come back to this site. Curiosity got me... Today I read and think, "oh yeah... been there, went thru that too. Ouch! Looking back, I see so many things I wished I had done differently... Today there is no way in hell, I would go through 6 years of pain, not for ANYBODY! Looking back, I guess because all the emotional turmoil that one goes through in an A, i never really thought things through completely. It was always , whats next? the next deadline, the next issue from him. ..etc. I guess the view on top of the mountain is different from the bottom...If my story helps anyone... I am happy : ) because at the end, an affair is just not worth all the time and suffering that came with it...

 

Mino, what do you want from your R?

 

R's go through ups and downs...I can't imagine that you would suffer 6 years for someone you didn't love and had NO good times with...and stood by through so much?

 

Have you thought about how you can get back to those good times? A place where being with the man you loved was worth anything?

 

You can change what is going on. I don't know all the specifics but I do know that we choose to do something or we choose to do nothing. And doing nothing is still a choice. You can choose to be happy or choose to be miserable. That is not on him, that is on YOU.

 

How can you get back to a place where you are where you want to be?

[Mino]

Mino, what do you want from your R?

 

R's go through ups and downs...I can't imagine that you would suffer 6 years for someone you didn't love and had NO good times with...and stood by through so much?

 

Have you thought about how you can get back to those good times? A place where being with the man you loved was worth anything?

 

You can change what is going on. I don't know all the specifics but I do know that we choose to do something or we choose to do nothing. And doing nothing is still a choice. You can choose to be happy or choose to be miserable. That is not on him, that is on YOU.

 

How can you get back to a place where you are where you want to be?

lol, that is a good question. Of coarse all R go through up and downs... But i guess Im just getting tired...like i said before, I now see why his marriage had problems... I know he is stubborn, and has become in the last few years a bad comunicator. I bring up something, he shuts down, and doesnt want to talk about it. Only comuicates well when I am at the point of kicking his azz out. That is not what he was like during the A. I am sure today, that is what happened in his marriage, and the w got tired too, and finally gave up. What I want out of a relationship is my best friend back, someone who is fun, laughs. Well see what happened. I got a 6 month time limit in my head! lol