For OW/OM who made it to a legitimate relationship with MM...

[NoIDidn't]

Hi Mino!!!

 

I really appreciate your threadjacking in this thread. You are speaking a truth that is often denied here. That things aren't always perfect once the divorce occurs. A poster said that others are speaking truth but others don't want to believe it. I don't think its that others don't want to believe it, its that its so one-sided and always positive. Some posters never paint a realistic picture of having doubts or concerns, of issues because of stepkids, or about the money that supports the family that still exists after the divorce. I think the OP deserves to see all/more sides/possibilities of the truth presented.

 

I, for one, am so sorry that you aren't feeling very secure in your choice to stay with him. But, be encouraged that you are seeing him as he really is and will be able to make a decision based on truth instead of the assumptions made during the A.

 

It really stood out to me that he's giving almost all of his money to the ex, and that you had to have a conversation with him to get $700. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to bash him or you for this. Its reality now. It just seems that he might have felt you were okay with him giving all to his W just like he likely did during the A. You were cool with not getting that during the A, so it makes sense for him to (possibly, I'm assuming a lot here to consider what he may have felt) assume that all you really wanted was him (and you said this too, that you got him and she got to keep everything she had pre-divorce) and he gave you that. It seems that affair-type thinking goes into the new R after the D.

 

I think your honesty here is your greatest strength. Relationships are often filled with regrets or reconsiderations, regardless of how they started. I remember dating my H and how he seemed to have his financial house in order when we were dating. But once we married, he seemed to think that he could spend *his* money on his hobbies like he always did, and that mine would continue to pay for us to live...like I did for myself before we married. Right down to his last dime, even. That did not go over well with me, because his hobby is unbelievably expensive. He spent more on his hobby than he did on my wedding ring! Still does.

 

I think the takeaway for the OP is that the OW/OM will have to be honest with themselves about who their AP was/is. This R setup has potential for alot of resentment. And, if you believe the therapists, resentment is a killer of any relationship - former affair or not. One prominent marriage therapist calls resentment one of the "four horsemen" that spell doom (like the doom of the end of the world). I can't remember his name.

 

Good luck, Mino. Hope you enjoy your vacay.

[OWoman]

That things aren't always perfect once the divorce occurs. A poster said that others are speaking truth but others don't want to believe it. I don't think its that others don't want to believe it' date=' its that its so one-sided and always positive. [b']Some posters never paint a realistic picture of having doubts or concerns, of issues because of stepkids, or about the money that supports the family that still exists after the divorce. [/b]I think the OP deserves to see all/more sides/possibilities of the truth presented.

 

For some of us, those things have not been an issue. I'd be lying if I claimed to resent my H spending money on his xW, because he has not given her a cent during or since he left her, aside from buying out her part-ownership of the house. Likewise, I'd be lying if I claimed there were any blended family issues, as their haven't been. My kids are older and live independently, and when they've met his, everyone got along very well. I accept that if we all lived together everyday, things may have been different - but I can't pretend that they are anything other than they are. And no, I can't say I've ever had doubts - that's not my style. I own my choices and I make them work.

 

I accept that it's not always the case that things work out as smoothly as they have for us, but I do resent the insinuation that, because things have worked out smoothly, I'm somehow being less than honest because I don't have any horror stories to recount.

 

My truth is as valid as anyone else's. Those who read Mino's back story - she has many posts on LS - will see that it has never been smooth sailing for her and her SO. That that continues to be the case is sad, but not entirely surprising, since that was the pattern of how things have been for them. OWs with that kind of R can relate to that, and can perhaps picture their own situations evolving along a similar trajectory to Mino's, should their MMs leave and they get together post-D.

 

My own R-path has been rather different - our R has been straightforward, honest and uncomplicated from the outset, and has continued in that vein. So OWs whose Rs are more like mine can perhaps relate more with my trajectory. And still others can find resonance in some of the other stories posted - GirlwithGlasses, Nextel, TogetherForever, or any of the others listed - and get a glimpse of how things may work out for them... should they find themselves in that space.

 

No, it doesn't always work out wonderfully - but sometimes it does.

[OWoman]

Marriage can never legitimize adultery.

 

Actually it can. It might help you to familiarise yourself with fact on planet earth before importing your strange opinions which are not valid here on earth.

 

I don't make the rules.

 

At least you got that bit correct!

[dreamingoftigers]

Well, I do have a life, but I really thought researching this might benefit everyone on the forum: (Disclaimer: this is not an exhaustive list either, I found enough to make a point:

 

There's obviously you, GEL, JeNeRegreteRien (sp?) OldEurope, Lyssa, ScaredInLove, BabyBird, Cliche, Sumdude's XW, GotIt, MizBlue, BrokenLady, Mino, Tami-Chan, MotoMan and I'm sure there's others but hey in addition to the 6 listed above, here are more.

 

Twenty-one posters.

 

What I think is probably more dismal: the number of HAPPILY, RECONCILED MP's.

 

And maybe not all the R's listed are working out happily ever after, when you

put them up against other couples, it's pretty much a similar picture.

 

Well, mine, add Bonehead and Happy at last, there are many more...

 

I think it's easier to believe that A's don't turn into anything, although with the thousands of people I worked with and many of them having A's and shortly after leaving for AP...sorry, but it happens all of the time.

 

The stats were quoted for ending up in an M after an affair, then the stat was listed for the failure rate after 5 years of marriage which is dramatically higher then even the average 2nd marriage (although plenty of second marriage and subsequent marriage stats would include affair marriages. It would be interesting to check out the failure rare of second marriages if the affair partner marriages were removed from the stats.)

 

Many of the posters listed have described their relationships as either not heading to a marriage, or miserable. I am not dating that thus is all Oxbridge posters.it also seems that AP like Owoman have string personal boundaries which would show a very clear difference between OWoman and a lot of the other OW/OM I have read on this forum.

 

Often people who have excellent personal boundaries would never consider an affair to be an appropriate way to start a relationship because it violates the recognizable boundaries of a marriage (IMO).

 

I say besides moralist or my own personal feelings regarding the behavior of most MM/MW and OM/OW I would simply look at the landslide of stats showing a sad outcome and just avoid the circumstance.

 

In my own case my, upon discovery of adultery my marriage got a 33% chance if surviving the next five years. That lowered with the fact the my husband had an unchecked sexual addiction that he was refusing to desk with. In the general population less then five percent of sexual addicts will get help and make a recovery. The odds are increased fir him because of an awareness of the availability of resources and a supportive spouse who us also in recovery. Plus the motivating factor of our daughter who means the world to him. The odds are still less then fantastic.

 

If he dies not follow-through on recovery the odds of us having a healthy family are minimal and therefore in the way of my goal of having a healthy family. Then I would look at the stats for second marriage and hop on over there.

[BeachBetty]

Stats are simply results of small sample sizes for research. As most people know, research is skewed by people being honest (or not) and people having a personal stake in the results. Also, for it to be valid, it has to be duplicated which I don't believe has ever happened.

 

As for basing life on stats, why even get married then? You have a 50% change of staying married and a 50% chance of getting divorced (higher in other studies).

 

I make choices in my life that I can feel good about. Other people are perfectly entitled to make whatever choice is best for them. But to argue that statistics are going to affect a personal outcome is invalid at best. Statistics are events that happened to a specific group, not to me.

 

My outcome is what matters to me. Not what happened to someone else.

[OWoman]

.it also seems that AP like Owoman have string personal boundaries

 

Dreaming, I think your predictive text ran away with you....

[OWoman]

Statistics are events that happened to a specific group, not to me.

 

My outcome is what matters to me. Not what happened to someone else.

 

Or, as I read in an article yesterday, "Statistics are good (predictors) for populations, not for individuals"

[whichwayisup]

The thing about that list, we don't know as of now what the outcome is with some of those people. And, sadly, one person out of that list, has passed away. Wow, seeing her name really brought tears to my eyes..

[OWoman]

The thing about that list, we don't know as of now what the outcome is with some of those people. And, sadly, one person out of that list, has passed away. Wow, seeing her name really brought tears to my eyes..

 

Yep. Poor Nixson never got his "happily ever after"...

[silktricks]

 

What I think is probably more dismal: the number of HAPPILY, RECONCILED MP's.

 

And just like the stats for A's ending up in marriages, I'm not sure how valid the statistics are for happily reconciled marriages. The ONLY people who even know we had a problem are ourselves, the xOW, our MC, and you folks here. Our kids don't know. Our families and friends don't know.

 

Statistics are only valid when the input is accurate...

[jwi71]

The thing about that list, we don't know as of now what the outcome is with some of those people. And, sadly, one person out of that list, has passed away. Wow, seeing her name really brought tears to my eyes..

 

Ditto on Lyssa. So sad and so... unnecessary. She was so young.

 

Anyways...to change the subject, I'm curious to know what Beach's previous screen name was...some of those stories go back years...

 

anyone have a guess?

[BeachBetty]

Statistics are only valid when the input is accurate...

 

You make my point for me...

[BeachBetty]

Ditto on Lyssa. So sad and so... unnecessary. She was so young.

 

Anyways...to change the subject, I'm curious to know what Beach's previous screen name was...some of those stories go back years...

 

anyone have a guess?

 

I'm sorry sir. You are mistaken.

 

From what I can see many posters on this site are obsessed with some that are no longer here, but don't point your finger at me.

 

Try pointing it at yourself and remain on topic.

 

Or do guidelines only apply to some or not others?

[jwi71]

I'm sorry sir. You are mistaken.

 

From what I can see many posters on this site are obsessed with some that are no longer here, but don't point your finger at me.

 

Try pointing it at yourself and remain on topic.

 

Or do guidelines only apply to some or not others?

 

Feel free to hit the "Alert Us" button if you feel I - or anyone really- violated ToS. Tony is pretty quick and not shy about handing out suspensions and bans.

 

Care to share the methodology you used to locate the threads where they were "successful"? Just curious because, on the surface, its very difficult to know who "won" and who didn't. It would require, or so it seems, a great deal of reading and "following" to know who "won"...I'd love to know how you did it - and so quickly.

[donnamaybe]

Feel free to hit the "Alert Us" button if you feel I - or anyone really- violated ToS. Tony is pretty quick and not shy about handing out suspensions and bans.

 

Care to share the methodology you used to locate the threads where they were "successful"? Just curious because, on the surface, its very difficult to know who "won" and who didn't. It would require, or so it seems, a great deal of reading and "following" to know who "won"...I'd love to know how you did it - and so quickly.

Interesting, is it not?

[Mino]

Where did you see it claim to be an exhaustive list? It was simply a few that I remember off-hand. If anyone is that interested, they can do the research themselves - I have a life.

 

The point, as I'd stated (if anyone is actually concerned with what anyone writes, as opposed to sourcing ammunition to back up their own agendas ) was that they were samples against which to get some sense of what a "typical" scenario might be when a MM leaves - since this thread has turned into a "Mino vs OWoman" typicality scenario contest :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

LOL, Hi Owoman, nooo this is not a senerio contest. You are indeed lucky to have a situation without all the baggage. Thats all. But I think most people ( depending on the age) do still have responsibilities after they get a divorce. Some for a short period, and some for longer periods. This also depends in what state they divorce in. The reason I wrote your the Rescuer" is because your husband left a BAD marriage....Mine left just a loveless marriage. But I wouldnt say it was Bad. The guilt of leaving a wife who is actually a good wife is much harder. The terms of the divorce were done before we got back together. But even if I had been with him back then, it would not have been none of my business to what and how much they agreed upon. You also write my A was not smooth sailing... lol, I dont get that? It was wonderful like everybody eles! Sure we had our trials, especially when I started wanting a future together. I didnt want to be the ow ever...The rough sailing came in after he made his attempt to move and then ran back home. Thats when my heart broke each and every time. Thats the times I came to LS for advice. I came to heal..But had it been rough from begining to end, this A would not ever have lasted 6 years!

[BeachBetty]

Feel free to hit the "Alert Us" button if you feel I - or anyone really- violated ToS. Tony is pretty quick and not shy about handing out suspensions and bans.

 

Care to share the methodology you used to locate the threads where they were "successful"? Just curious because, on the surface, its very difficult to know who "won" and who didn't. It would require, or so it seems, a great deal of reading and "following" to know who "won"...I'd love to know how you did it - and so quickly.

 

Well, I just started looking up Owomans threads, since her MM divorced and married her. You can tell by some of the titles which ones will pull up the subject matter you want. And then once you find another poster, you pull up their threads, such as GEL, and you find other posters with the same subject matter and so on. I also searched under a few key words, but I don't remember what they were now. I didn't realize I would be quizzed on it later and I do have a life so I was not going to attach links for all of them as was done above. It was not really that hard, if you started with one who's MP divorced, because eventually you had others jump on the thread to update.

 

That's why I bet there's more because I didn't use a real systematic way and so many threads go off topic, I didn't read to the end. And it only took about forty-five minutes. But I thought it would be interesting to see what I could find out. It did not seem realistic that only 6 people in 4 years would have left their M's. I don't consider it winning or losing and find it funny (weird funny) that you would characterize it as such. It's not a game when you are talking about peoples lives and hearts. Someone always gets left out in threes.

 

And thanks for the info about "alert us." Seems kind of funny to me that people don't use it more. It's like a mine field here.

[jthorne]

Interesting, is it not?

The tone, agenda and writing style gave it away after the 3rd post.

 

The thing about that list, we don't know as of now what the outcome is with some of those people. And, sadly, one person out of that list, has passed away. Wow, seeing her name really brought tears to my eyes..

You and jwi have been here much longer than I, but I can safely say that the R's are over for over half of the people on the list. So, the theory seems bust if you are referring to successful relationships. Edited February 9, 2011 by jthorne

[BeachBetty]

The tone, agenda and writing style gave it away after the 3rd post.

 

You and jwi have been here much longer than I, but I can safely say that the R's are over for over half of the people on the list. So, the theory seems bust if you are referring to successful relationships.

 

I think you should go back and read the page as to what was being discussed. And even my post addressed the fact that I do not know how they all turned out, just that that many people divorced. The point prior to mine was saying that only 6 in 4 years was in their words, "dismal."

 

I really do not get the paranoia about posters. There are many here who are saying posters are other people than their screennames. I guess that is a good way to keep new posters from getting support here since it is not welcoming, at all. That is too bad, because this could be a great place with great discussion.

 

I will definitely keep my own personal stitch to myself, because it seems like words are used against you at all times.

[jthorne]

I think you should go back and read the page as to what was being discussed. And even my post addressed the fact that I do not know how they all turned out, just that that many people divorced. The point prior to mine was saying that only 6 in 4 years was in their words, "dismal."

We obviously have different standards and criteria for "dismal".

 

For example, if someone I was dating lied to me about their marital status for a year, I would think that the prospects for a healthy relationship were pretty dismal.

Edited February 9, 2011 by jthorne

[jessie's girl]

I believe in Mino's situation, part of the issues going on is because it seems like MM ended his marriage and went straight to her, without taking any time for himself, to figure things out. To live alone and for the two of them to "date" under normal circumstances. I assume since they are living together now, it's been a hard adjustment moving from affair dynamic to an out in the open relationship. He also has to be grieving the loss of living with his son under the same roof and also his marriage overall..It's still a loss even though he was the one who ended it.

 

Mino's a strong woman and I have faith that she'll survive this, no matter what the outcome is.

 

i have to agree. i want my MM to take time between me and his wife (if he ever divorces!!!!) before I would feel confident we could be together long term.

 

 

Mino's situation seems much more common. It is usually an illusion when you do not spend time with a man you are dating in friend and family situations.

When you only hear his version of who he is rtaher than see how he interacts with loved ones.

 

When you are together alone in a bubble talking about how life will be when you two are finally together.Fantasizing together.

 

Someone said people n affairs are given a playbook, that a regular relationship is not privy to. The Playbook tells you what the Spouse is doing wrong to turn MW/MM to the affair. Lack of sex,nagging whatever it is. Affair person than subconsciously does the opposite.

 

People who do not search internally for solutions to their lack of happiness and search externally for a solution(temporary) bring the same issues years later to new relationships.

 

I agree with you that Mino's situation is more the norm from the people I know.

 

These are the odds I read as I acquired my degree in Affairology over the last three years!

 

The high divorce rate of second marriages has lately been verified by sociologists who could give a hoot about affairs.

 

Their reasoning is having to rear a child not biologically your own causes huge stress and resentment in a marital relationship.

 

Mino, your words ring true and I applaud your honesty.

 

After the affair, a relationship is a relationship is a relationship with all it's warts and wrinkles and life issues to be worked through on a daily basis....just like any marriage or long-term partnership.

 

Oh yes!!! I have been seeing a therapist and she even brought up the high divorce rate of 2nd marriages especially when putting families together with kids.

 

Where did you see it claim to be an exhaustive list? It was simply a few that I remember off-hand. If anyone is that interested, they can do the research themselves - I have a life.

 

The point, as I'd stated (if anyone is actually concerned with what anyone writes, as opposed to sourcing ammunition to back up their own agendas ) was that they were samples against which to get some sense of what a "typical" scenario might be when a MM leaves - since this thread has turned into a "Mino vs OWoman" typicality scenario contest :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

For some of us, those things have not been an issue. I'd be lying if I claimed to resent my H spending money on his xW, because he has not given her a cent during or since he left her, aside from buying out her part-ownership of the house. Likewise, I'd be lying if I claimed there were any blended family issues, as their haven't been. My kids are older and live independently, and when they've met his, everyone got along very well. I accept that if we all lived together everyday, things may have been different - but I can't pretend that they are anything other than they are. And no, I can't say I've ever had doubts - that's not my style. I own my choices and I make them work.

 

I accept that it's not always the case that things work out as smoothly as they have for us, but I do resent the insinuation that, because things have worked out smoothly, I'm somehow being less than honest because I don't have any horror stories to recount.

 

My truth is as valid as anyone else's. Those who read Mino's back story - she has many posts on LS - will see that it has never been smooth sailing for her and her SO. That that continues to be the case is sad, but not entirely surprising, since that was the pattern of how things have been for them. OWs with that kind of R can relate to that, and can perhaps picture their own situations evolving along a similar trajectory to Mino's, should their MMs leave and they get together post-D.

 

My own R-path has been rather different - our R has been straightforward, honest and uncomplicated from the outset, and has continued in that vein. So OWs whose Rs are more like mine can perhaps relate more with my trajectory. And still others can find resonance in some of the other stories posted - GirlwithGlasses, Nextel, TogetherForever, or any of the others listed - and get a glimpse of how things may work out for them... should they find themselves in that space.

 

No, it doesn't always work out wonderfully - but sometimes it does.

 

 

I am not sure why you got all stirred up, but no one said "you" were not being truthful. I didn't see anyone say that. And if your H hasn't paid any money to his ex wife, then he is definitely not the norm. I am confused as to how you can even claim anything differently. You keep insisting that you were never hidden, never a secret, never compromised your values, etc... no one was claiming otherwise. This thread isn't about you so not sure why you are so worked up.

[donnamaybe]

We obviously have different standards and criteria for "dismal".

 

For example, if someone I was dating lied to me about their marital status for a year, I would think that the prospects for a healthy relationship were pretty dismal.

Another example would be if you found out you weren't the first affair partner your MM/MW had. Would that not be a HUGE red flag that the future held a boatload of grief if a person tried to make a R with someone like that?

[whichwayisup]

I guess that is a good way to keep new posters from getting support here since it is not welcoming, at all. That is too bad, because this could be a great place with great discussion.

It is a good place for support. The thing is, these types of discussion threads get heated at times. This thread isn't about "support" it's a discussion thread. Have you looked at more recent threads by OW and the help/support they are receiving right now? I'd say many new posters are getting support.

[silktricks]

You make my point for me...

 

 

I guess maybe you hadn't noticed that a few posts previously I had said the same thing about the results of affairs as I said about recovered marriages. Most people don't know the back-story of their acquaintances relationships, so statistics on relationships don't mean much IMO.

[OWoman]

Another example would be if you found out you weren't the first affair partner your MM/MW had. Would that not be a HUGE red flag that the future held a boatload of grief if a person tried to make a R with someone like that?

 

And the relevance of this.... is? It's neither relevant to the topic of the thread, nor to the poster against whom it was directed, so why state it?

 

We obviously have different standards and criteria for "dismal".

 

For example, if someone I was dating lied to me about their marital status for a year, I would think that the prospects for a healthy relationship were pretty dismal.

 

 

Ditto this.

 

Do some posters here have a vendetta against certain new posters who don't toe a particular line? I've seen one chased off already because some people here insisted - erroneously, and despite being told so consistently - that s/he was a reincarnation of someone else, and it seems they're hellbent on doing it to another.

 

That's not only sad, it's pretty pathetic, that an OW support board can't even be used by OWs for support because a band of AAB posters (that's anti-affair brigade, if you're wondering) gang up on new posters and hound them off.