I feel like a creep, talking to wife about 3some

[Lauriebell82]

 

But what you said, was something i thought about and planned to address with her. I think any limits set while sober, shouldn't be touched when tipsy.

 

Yes, I would agree with that. But what if you had set the limit of her NOT having sex with this guy, but then when under the influence, she suddenly decides she wants to. How would you react? Would you tell her no? I know how much you want this fantasy acted out, so it will be important for you to know what YOUR limits are as well. I know you wouldn't want to force her, but will you have the ability to inforce the limits of this if she can't? And what will the masseuse do in that situation?

 

This is why I really don't think alcohol should be involved in this. I understand why your wife wants it to be, however it could cause more harm then good. If she needs alcohol to act out your fantasy, I have to say that her heart isn't really in it.

[Trimmer]

She understands she will be nude, he will be nude, and most likely there will be a happy ending involved ...

I want to be really clear here... You say "she understands" this. Have you explicitly discussed these details, or are you assuming that from the use of the words "erotic massage", this is what she is getting out of that term?

 

I am only being so anal because I believe you have already gotten yourself into some trouble by assuming how she is interpreting certain things, or assuming what she meant by something, which we don't believe she really meant, etc... Like the fact that, in the early stages, she was willing to discuss this - you took that as a sign of awkward interest that she just didn't know how to pursue, while many of us believe she was reacting to your obvious strong interest, and concerned at disappointing you by saying, "no", and thus only going just as far as she needed to avoid turning you completely off...

 

For example, you said you believe it possible that it might go beyond an "erotic massage." Just what, exactly, do you think are the boundaries of an erotic massage, and what, specifically, would be "beyond" that? Where is that boundary, and is that something you have discussed with your wife yet? (Specifically, not just in the use of the term "erotic massage.")

Edited February 18, 2011 by Trimmer

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

Oh wow. This thread is a nightmare. I was going to write a really long response, but I'll limit myself to 2 short comments:

1. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is a common fantasy

2. Don't fool yourself into thinking, because it's not an emotional experience for you, it won't be for your wife either

[Urgie]

all things aside, why do you say it is not a common fantasy?

 

Everything i have read points otherwise. And it isnt just porn type of sites, they are legit informational sites.

 

Not that it matters to me one way or another, but i did really believe it was fairly common.

[Lauriebell82]

all things aside, why do you say it is not a common fantasy?

 

Everything i have read points otherwise. And it isnt just porn type of sites, they are legit informational sites.

 

Not that it matters to me one way or another, but i did really believe it was fairly common.

 

I think it's less common among married couples who are not already in an open marriage. Those websites you visit probably state that in order to appeal to the type of men who look at them.

[LittleTiger]

I don't see this little scenario heading anywhere 'good'.

 

Even if your wife isn't just doing this just to please you, from what you've said about her, she doesn't sound like the type of woman who can handle what you're suggesting - and the need for alcohol is a HUGE red flag.

 

I think if you go ahead with it, it will all end in tears.

[Trimmer]

I don't see this little scenario heading anywhere 'good'.

 

Even if your wife isn't just doing this just to please you, from what you've said about her, she doesn't sound like the type of woman who can handle what you're suggesting - and the need for alcohol is a HUGE red flag.

 

I think if you go ahead with it, it will all end in tears.

Or more likely those tears will come in the middle, somewhere between meeting Mr. Masseuse in the bar and the uncertain struggle to repair the damage in the relationship...

[Lauriebell82]

Urgie, I really think you need to stick to the original plan that you had. You had said that you were going to drop it forever and enter counseling. But you didn't do that, and that's why you are in this position.

 

Do you think you can forget about this fantasy of the erotic massage and actually enter counseling? To be fair, your wife DID get your hopes up on this, but once again you pushed her. I think you are both responsible for the outcome. I think you would benefit from marriage counseling actually. She may be more willing to open up to a therapist, and with their help, finally tell you once and for all that she doesn't want to do this! That's what you really need to hear to lay this to rest.

[LittleTiger]

Or more likely those tears will come in the middle, somewhere between meeting Mr. Masseuse in the bar and the uncertain struggle to repair the damage in the relationship...

 

You're just being more optimistic than I am. There is no guarantee that the damage will be repairable.

 

I think it will END in tears.

[xxoo]

all things aside, why do you say it is not a common fantasy?

 

Everything i have read points otherwise. And it isnt just porn type of sites, they are legit informational sites.

 

Not that it matters to me one way or another, but i did really believe it was fairly common.

 

It probably depends on your definition of "common".

 

You certainly aren't alone in this fantasy, but even the most obscure groups can find a lot of likeminded people on the www.

 

Also, of those with the fantasy, the majority are probably interested in the fantasy only. I think it is safe to say that it is pretty uncommon to want to actually watch your wife get it on with a stranger from CL.

 

Urgie--I think you should ask your wife this direct question:

Does the idea of having an erotic massage from another man turn you on?

Or is it something you are interested in doing because it turns me on?

[hopefully]

I'm confused. Doesn't seeing your wife flirting/having sex with another guy feel like a blow to your ego? I'm very confused:confused:

[Lecturer]

I've done a lot of research on this topic myself. For years I've been fascinated by polyamory and consensual extra-marital sexuality, and have done plenty of research on it.

 

I have to say... I think you are pushing too hard. Maybe it is your wife's nature to be a shrinking violet.. but she is indicating very little enthusiasm for this. Tolerance is not enthusiasm. I know she has been entertaining your fantasy in the bedroom, and that makes her an excellent wife/lover. But it doesn't mean she is actually wanting this in reality.

 

She needs to come to you and be excited about this. It needs to be to the point where she is pushing things forward too, such that you can say "are you sure about this?" and she excitedly answers before you get the words out "yes!".

 

You need to find out her concerns and desires regarding this. There are many obvious concerns a woman in this situation would have.. and you need discuss those (and answer her questions) honestly.. then let her go and think about it. For a long time.

 

BTW, you originally asked why you have this fantasy. Well, some reasons include:

 

1. Compersion - the feeling of pleasure one gets from the joy/pleasure experienced by people they care about. Polyamorous people feel this, and take pleasure when their partners experience love and sex with others.

2. Competition - By having your wife be with another man, then go back to you, it validates that she is actively choosing you and isn't just with you due to contract (marriage) or habit. A well known event for this sort of thing is the 'reclaiming' by the husband, which is the first sex after the wife has been with another.. an almost ritualistic event.

3. Orgasm - It has been found in studies that men that believe or know their partner has recently been with another man will produce a greater volume of sperm in their ejaculate. It is reasonable to believe that the orgasm will be heightened if you believe your partner has previous had sex with someone else. You likely already experience this with your fantasy play.

4. Sexual Expansion - By having your wife be with another guy, you are pushing her sexual boundaries and limits. Part of you may believe that she may be willing to do more/other things once she realizes that this advancement has been positive.

5. Increasing her 'Value' - After a time, people can start to see their partners as more of a 'given'. To bed a new partner is a challenge and the value of success is high. To bed your wife, who you've had sex with hundreds or even thousands of times, is not really something one can brag about. By her sleeping with another person, it re-sexualizes her, making her have more appeal and more value. In a way, guys want to be able to brag their their wives/gfs are sluts (in the good way), and this contributes to that.

 

Anyway, I'm aware of and participate in a few communities for everything from polyamory to cuckolding and kink. I think what you are most closely after (based on your descriptions) is termed 'hotwifing', so I'd direct you to the website of ourhotwives org. There is a community of both men and women there that have experience in what you're talking about and are like-minded to you, so they may be able to help you and your wife. If you do go, I'd recommend having your wife participate too.. or even go alone without you so she can ask honest questions (there is a good female presence there).

Edited February 18, 2011 by Lecturer

[stuckinoz]

I do believe it's a FANTASY for many many men.

However....As with my specific situation

My husband was totally into the IDEA of a 3-some, & many other things. He pushed, thought it was a great idea for me to get out there & do 'whatever' When it came to be an ACTUAL THING - He was less than thrilled about what HE'D suggested!

 

In his mind it played out one way - in the real world it played out totally different.

 

Some people should just keep their fantasies as that - Fantasies. Don't bring them into the real world or the SH*T can hit the fan -as it did in my household. (so to speak)

[neveragain1]

The best answer i can come up with is that we are in love, and we love being intimate together. If we were to play this out it would be strictly sex with no emotions attached.

 

uh huh.

 

you can't guarantee she isn't going to get emotionally attached.

 

 

I wouldnt be jealous because i understand it is just physical, and in case i am jealous we would just chalk it up to things we have tried and didn't like (plenty of those already)

 

well since she isn't repelled by the idea of sharing herself with another man, and once you start it, she is going to get a taste to want more men.

 

do what you want, but you are headed for a train wreck.

 

 

PS, We will be reading replies together so please be nice .. no pervs like "yo ill do yer wife send her over hereeee!!" haha. We are just looking for some honest feedback, without being judged. This is obviously not a topic for friends or family

 

Thank you

 

no pervs? sorry, but thats the swinging/3some lifestyle for you

[Shocking Pink]

That really reads to me like a woman who's just agreeing to something bc she feels pressured or guilty! OP she was totally against this until you said you wanted it so much you were going to have to get counseling to help you get over it, then she said ok she would try this erotic massage! And she's acting really reluctant about it! Doesn't that say anything to you? You are totally pushing her emotionally!

[Darren Steez]

Is this guy for real? when he couldn't get what he wanted he gives her the guilt trip? He says he loves her but he obviously doesn't respect her decision to say no I don't want to do this, and save the BS about it something you can't get out of your mind, your wife is happy enough to have sex with you and doesn't want another man but because she loves you so much and doesn't want to see you unhappy, she's willing to compromise her values..and you will let her, because to you no doesn't mean no, it's your way or nothing else. Disgraceful.

[Woman In Blue]

Urgie, you seem like a rabid dog with a bone, all fixated on making YOUR fantasy come true at the expense of a woman who clearly doesn't want to do it but is afraid to say no.

 

What is WRONG with you that you're so freakin' fixated on this?

[Trimmer]

Or more likely those tears will come in the middle, somewhere between meeting Mr. Masseuse in the bar and the uncertain struggle to repair the damage in the relationship...

 

You're just being more optimistic than I am. There is no guarantee that the damage will be repairable.

 

I think it will END in tears.

Actually, we're agreeing - I was just not understanding what you were saying, and not being clear myself. I thought you meant that the evening with the "other guy" would end in tears, and I was saying that those tears are just the beginning of a difficult process. I am similarly pessimistic as you are, and I agree that there will probably be more tears, possibly right to the very end.

 

As a matter of fact, there may already be tears on her part right now, in private, as she struggles to figure out what is wrong with their relationship that this is such an obsession for him. She's probably agonizing over the fact that he claims it's all good, but obviously something is eating at him... Even if he drops it now, the level to which he's pushed it already is like he's already cracked the lid on Pandora's box.

[climbergirl]

I would never say you are a creep as I think it's good that you and your wife have this open communication.

 

But, and only from my perspective, I've known people who have done this and it's never ended up well.

 

Furthermore, and again from my perspective, I would do just about anything to please my fiance but this I would not do. I would be hurt by the suggestion. Me with another man? I would question his committment, his love, and his sexual orientation.

 

Vice versa, he suggested me with another woman? I'd probably check out. Just me, but I don't think I could continue with that visual...either real or imagined.

 

Please consider the ramifications and if it is worth it.

[elaina]

I think I hear you stating that it would be strictly sex with no emotions attached. I hope you are having an honest and open discussion to the degree that she can tell you whether she really believes, in her heart, that it would be that way, or whether, as with the rest of this fantasy, she is just agreeing with what you are proposing.

 

Men are notoriously inaccurate about predicting what a woman's emotional reaction will be to a given situation, especially involving sex. If your wife is not truly, 100% bought-in to this idea, I would be extremely careful thinking that you can predict the emotional outcome for her.

 

 

I think that part of what makes this a spicy fantasy is the element of risk, and the validation it will bring that your wife comes back to you after an encounter. I think you would find it "hot", but I bet you would still be aching to take it to the next level.

 

Edited to Add:

 

Oh, I missed that you said this, which is the whole premise of my first point above, i.e. it will be near-impossible for you to predict what her emotional response will be with any confidence.

 

That's a great post with great points.

 

Concerning me, it is an absolute dealbreaker if anyone I love wants me to have sex with any other being but him!

 

To me, there are some places that sexual fantasies shouldn't go, like pedophilia and bestiality and sex with sadistic torture/killing involved.

 

Even though watching or thinking of your wife with another man or with another woman isn't to those horrible extreme levels listed above, to me it's just a step toward more extreme sexual activities that cross the line of human integrity, which ignores love and caring for other person just to have one's lusts of more and more extreme sexual fantasies fulfilled.

 

So, instead of concentrating on your own lusts/sexual desires, it might be a good idea to evaluate why you are having them and if they are even compatible with love. Just excusing and saying you want your wife to feel intense pleasure bla bla bla is not covering up questionable reasons why you are even having such fantasies. People who molest children excuse themselves by saying that too. I know because I have worked with children who have been sexually abused and who were told by their abusers that they (the victims) liked it cause it "felt good" when really it didn't to them... it just hurt them physically and emotionally, and leaves a scar that is very difficult to heal.

 

Don't force your wife to do something just because it's your fantasy when it has the potential to hurt her... that's dangerous ground. Even though she is an adult, if you truly love her, you would accept that she enjoys immense pleasure just from you, and if she herself doesn't have this own fantasy of sleeping with other people, then you are not showing true love for her in trying to get her to do it. For me, it'd be grounds for divorce. Not all sexual fantasies are good for the object of those fantasies and promote the wellbeing of the people those fantasies are acted out upon.

Edited February 21, 2011 by elaina

[elaina]

 

You certainly aren't alone in this fantasy, but even the most obscure groups can find a lot of likeminded people on the www.

 

Agreed,

 

There are much worse sexual fantasies out there that have obscure groups of likeminded people who share them... which is why there are law enforcement officers trying to clamp down on the ones that hurt little kids, for example.

 

Just because a person has a sexual fantasy doesn't mean it's a good one. With all sexual fantasies, the person who has them should question themselve to see if those fantasies are truly for the good/well-being of the person/people who is/are the object(s) of the fantasy.

[Lauriebell82]

Urgie,

 

I think the responses are basically saying that you need to drop this. I feel so sorry for your poor wife, she is probably so torn between not wanting to disappoint you and doing something that is against her values.

 

This could jeapordize your marriage, do you understand that? It will end in disaster, but it seems as though all you care about is yourself and fullfilling your fantasy. How would you feel if your wife pressured you do something you didn't want to do?

 

You really need to get into counseling so you can resolve this issue and let it go. Your wife is not going to tell you that she doesn't want to do this (although she really should) and because of that, you have taken her passive-agressive uncertainty and run with it. Speak to a counselor so that you can understand this.

 

Just a question: you said that your wife has been reading these responses. What does she have to say about all of this? I mean, IF she is reading what we are saying, is she agreeing with us? Or is she still saying she is interested?

[phillyfan]

Hello all,

 

I have the common fantasy of wanting my wife to be with another man. A piggybacked fantasy is to sit in a bar and watch her on the other side of the bar being picked up, flattered, complimented, seduced, and then if all the cards are in order, led out the door to the car or something. Later on I would like to hear all the details. This doesn't say that i am apposed to being involved, i would love to do that also.

 

We are together over 10yrs, relationship is stronger than ever. 2 Beautiful kids and there is no question that i love her .. and i know i can satisfy her myself. But for many years now i am having this strong fantasy of her being with another guy!

 

We have talked about it, there was a time when i was a bit aggressive and tried pushing her into it. At the VERY last second she backed out. I mean as "very last second" as you can possibly imagine!!! I dropped it completely for some years since it obviously wasn't on her to-do list and i would rather not make her do something she doesn't want.

 

But recently we have been getting pretty hot&heavy with the role-playing in the bedroom, including "life like" toys and a whole lot of talking (get my drift?). Needless to say it has peeked my monster once again. And in the bedroom she is all about it ... id like to repeat some of the things she says, but i am new here and don't know the forum rules.

 

We talked about it on a serious note the other day, not so much about if she will/wont do it, but just why i fantasize about it, what types of situations i would fantasize about, and that i am sorry for having a weird one and not just being normal.

 

She told me it does not gross her out, but says she just doesn't understand the whole thing? If i love her, how can i imagine her being with another man? As a straight man, how can i want to see my woman being shared?

 

I honestly cannot answer. But just typing it out has me all hot, sad to say.

 

The best answer i can come up with is that we are in love, and we love being intimate together. If we were to play this out it would be strictly sex with no emotions attached. I wouldnt be jealous because i understand it is just physical, and in case i am jealous we would just chalk it up to things we have tried and didn't like (plenty of those already)

 

I have heard all of the typical replies saying how she should leave me right away, we should go get counseling, im no "man", im a "whimp" etc. And to be honest, i cant help but start to believe them because i cannot explain my thoughts to either her, or myself!

 

 

PS, We will be reading replies together so please be nice .. no pervs like "yo ill do yer wife send her over hereeee!!" haha. We are just looking for some honest feedback, without being judged. This is obviously not a topic for friends or family

 

Thank you

Urgie (and Mrs Urgie)

 

DUDE its fine to have fantasies, wateva, but u know what, dont push ur wife into somethin she dont wat. Thats not love.

[britchick]

I have experience of this and I would say, do not go there. You are well on your way to ruining a great relationship and a great sex life.

 

Your wife does not share your desire to make this fantasy a reality and to be honest if you 'persuade' her to go ahead with this there is every chance she is never going to share any fantasy, role play or anything along those lines with you again. If you keep pushing her towards something she thinks she might like you run every risk of her forever associating you with a sexual act that feels like a violation and that is going to do nothing for your future together.

 

As for the having a few drinks.......I can understand where she is going here but it is going to loosen her up in the wrong way and make her more likely to agree to do something she will find hard to live with later on.

 

When I did this it was right in the beginning of a relationship that wasn't really a relationship yet....we must have done everything going but what stuck in my head was nothing to do with jealousy or seeing him with another woman/women........it was looking back and having a little bit less respect for myself that really hurt (I won't go into the reasons for getting into it all here). It's strange what you can do when you are feeling vulnerable, lacking in self esteem and you have someone egging you on.

 

You have already said that your wife lacks confidence in her body, let her keep her self respect and keep your fantasies between the two of you.

 

As for swinging communities and others as mentioned by others, I would take what is said there by men and women with a very big pinch of salt. The swinging community is forever saying that it is the women who are in charge...some couples there appear fine and happily married and cope great with the lifestyle. The ones who suffered disasters are no longer in the scene or are there with a new partner and don't discuss their previous mishaps. I have been to plenty of clubs/parties where couples row, storm out, end up in tears in the bathroom ....well you get my drift. When a new couple turns up, no one EVER mentions any of that...because it's all such fun! Hmmmmmm I'm not saying that it doesn't suit some people but there are many many people who find it takes away more than it gives.

Edited March 8, 2011 by britchick
Forgot something!

[summerdowling87]

1. I don't see why she has to be drunk

2. If you don't want some werido touching your wife-how can she get a message

3.Why do you want your wife naked, and another naked man

-touching your wife of she cearly not comterable doing so I.e getting wasted-

4.If she does it the three some or naked message are you expecting a FMF threesome

 

And you really can't say that there will be no connection we can't allways control that.

Edited March 8, 2011 by summerdowling87