Change in circumstances

[OWoman]

No, he is not being treated for OCD and does not want to be.

 

Thus, he is not willing to change. So, either you will have to accept him as he is, and live with the fall-out of his condition without trying to change him, or accept that he's unwilling to change (or, not willing enough) and move on.

 

I don't know what surgery you had, or how significant it is, but this indicator - particularly so early on during the "honeymoon" phase of your M - suggests that things are not going to get any easier. You will need to consider whether having kids given his inability and unwillingness to address his issues is something you're prepared to do - especially if your health itself is vulnerable.

 

He may profess to be willing to take on the SAHD role with kids, but then I'm sure if you'd asked him before you had surgery if he was prepared to accommodate your convalescence, he'd have expressed a willingness too. Yet the proof of the pudding comes out in his actual behaviour when placed in that stressful (for him) situation - and, as your thread shows, he's really not able to deal with it in the mature, sympathetic way that a non-OCD spouse would without hesitation. His own condition simply looms too large. He may wish things to be different when you have kids, but unless he is actually willing to do something concrete about that, take ownership of his condition and acknowledge the impact on you (and others around you, including any future kids) and manage his condition into something you can both live with without the levels of stress you're experiencing, his words carry little weight.

[Lauriebell82]

Thus, he is not willing to change. So, either you will have to accept him as he is, and live with the fall-out of his condition without trying to change him, or accept that he's unwilling to change (or, not willing enough) and move on.

 

I don't know what surgery you had, or how significant it is, but this indicator - particularly so early on during the "honeymoon" phase of your M - suggests that things are not going to get any easier. You will need to consider whether having kids given his inability and unwillingness to address his issues is something you're prepared to do - especially if your health itself is vulnerable.

 

He may profess to be willing to take on the SAHD role with kids, but then I'm sure if you'd asked him before you had surgery if he was prepared to accommodate your convalescence, he'd have expressed a willingness too. Yet the proof of the pudding comes out in his actual behaviour when placed in that stressful (for him) situation - and, as your thread shows, he's really not able to deal with it in the mature, sympathetic way that a non-OCD spouse would without hesitation. His own condition simply looms too large. He may wish things to be different when you have kids, but unless he is actually willing to do something concrete about that, take ownership of his condition and acknowledge the impact on you (and others around you, including any future kids) and manage his condition into something you can both live with without the levels of stress you're experiencing, his words carry little weight.

 

I think he is denial about the fact that he has OCD to the level where he needs treatment, so it's not so much that he REFUSES to change his behavior, he really does try his best to keep it under wraps, but I guess he doesn't think it's as bad as it really is. I understand that because I know denial inside and out due to my profession. We had a talk about kids, he understands that kids are going to be messy and he said he is willing to clean up after them. You have a point when you said he was willing to do all the chores for 6 weeks, but when the actual time came, his anxiety just got too great.

 

I suggested therapy for him once again, and he commented that if he told the therapist about the fact that I spit toothpaste on the handle of the sink the therapist would think he was valid in his point. I pointed out that it isn't the fact that he didn't like me spitting on the handle, it's the way he went about communicating that to me. I guess he just doesn't understand the difference? I will say he keeps it under control (as best he can) about 85% of the time, which is great. Things have been better lately, he has been going to his office and shutting the door when he gets super anxious and then coming back and cleaning up when he calms down. That has been helping.

 

I guess the bottom line is that I can't force him to get help if he isn't ready for it. Any suggestions?

[trinity1]

I have OCD myself so I do know some about these issues. What I wonder is, does your husband consider himself to be sick, does he consider himself to have a problem?

 

The reason I am asking is some people have OCD, others have an obsessive compulsive personality. The first is a disorder and you realize that you have a problem, that something is wrong. The second is a personality trait and you actually prefer this way of being, and think it is the proper way to deal with life.

 

OCD is treatable, an obsessive compulsive personality is not since there is no motivation to change.

[Lauriebell82]

I have OCD myself so I do know some about these issues. What I wonder is, does your husband consider himself to be sick, does he consider himself to have a problem?

 

The reason I am asking is some people have OCD, others have an obsessive compulsive personality. The first is a disorder and you realize that you have a problem, that something is wrong. The second is a personality trait and you actually prefer this way of being, and think it is the proper way to deal with life.

 

OCD is treatable, an obsessive compulsive personality is not since there is no motivation to change.

 

He has OCD, and acknowledges that he has it. So he isn't in denial about the fact that he has the disorder, he is more in denial about the severity of it and also how it effects me. He acknowledges that he does the behavior and feels remorseful. If he has an outburst and for some reason I get caught in the crossfire, he will always apologize and tell me he feels bad about it.

[trinity1]

Have you asked for professional advice for yourself on how to handle this situation? I am concerned that you actually are enabling his OCD by accommodating. lt is also likely to take a heavy toll on you to live like this long term. I wonder what is the appropriate behavior in a case like yours. Your husband is not only performing his obsessive compulsive actions himself, he is asking you to assist him.

 

I suggest that you make an appointment with someone specialized on disorders like OCD and have a discussion with him/her concerning how to handle this situation in the most appropriate and beneficial way for both you and your husband.

[eternalsunrise]

I am a newlywed, got married almost 5 months ago. We are very happy together. We have had a bit more conflict lately, as I had surgery about 5 weeks ago and have not been able to help around the house as much, doing chores. My husband is an OCD neat freak. I'm not! I call him Gary Poppins. I married him knowing this. We have both made a serious effort to see each other's point of view, I have tried to be "cleaner" and he has tried to control his anxiety and not freak out when things are messy. We have both done a good job.

 

Since my surgery the house has been more messy since I can't do as many chores. He has been handling as best he can, but his OCD has been flaring up. I tried talking to him about it openly and honestly, he said he would try not to get upset. He'll go a few days, things will get messy again and he'll once again get over anxious. What's going to happen when we have kids? He thinks things will be neat and tidy...

 

We have another few weeks before I can do chores again. Any suggestions? I'm at a loss.

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I think you should still take care of your responsibilities/do your half of the chores but not literally. Hire a maid to come in and take care of these things once per week until you completely heal. If I were you, I'd just do it, and not even run it by him. It would probably just stress him out even more. Having a maid do these things is such a relief, and I think it'll make you feel a lot better as well as make your husband not feel overwhelmed and anxious.

[Lauriebell82]

Have you asked for professional advice for yourself on how to handle this situation? I am concerned that you actually are enabling his OCD by accommodating. lt is also likely to take a heavy toll on you to live like this long term. I wonder what is the appropriate behavior in a case like yours. Your husband is not only performing his obsessive compulsive actions himself, he is asking you to assist him.

 

I suggest that you make an appointment with someone specialized on disorders like OCD and have a discussion with him/her concerning how to handle this situation in the most appropriate and beneficial way for both you and your husband.

 

I am actually a therapist, and have treated people with OCD, so I know a little bit about treating OCD. I have tried not to enable him where I don't clean what he wants me to clean, if it's asked in a disrespectful or innapropriate manner. So then, he knows the only way I'll clean is if he asks me nicely and it's phrased in a respecful way. That has actually HELPED, and despite being anxious, he manages to ask me nicely. I do it, and his anxiety goes away. The problem mainly has been that I CAN'T clean what he wants me to clean, therefore there is not anyway for his anxiety to decrease because I really can't do anything about it. Lately I have suggested that when he gets anxious and feels like he is going to snap I ask him to go to his office and calm down, then come back and do the chore.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Lauriebell82

[trinity1]

I am actually a therapist, and have treated people with OCD, so I know a little bit about treating OCD. I have tried not to enable him where I don't clean what he wants me to clean, if it's asked in a disrespectful or innapropriate manner. So then, he knows the only way I'll clean is if he asks me nicely and it's phrased in a respecful way. That has actually HELPED, and despite being anxious, he manages to ask me nicely. I do it, and his anxiety goes away. The problem mainly has been that I CAN'T clean what he wants me to clean, therefore there is not anyway for his anxiety to decrease because I really can't do anything about it. Lately I have suggested that when he gets anxious and feels like he is going to snap I ask him to go to his office and calm down, then come back and do the chore.

 

Are you a cognitive behavioral therapist? That is the only therapy that is effective for OCD.

 

By performing the compulsive actions an OCD patient can get a temporary relief in anxiety, but in the long run it increases the anxiety, and you will just have to do more and more compulsive actions to keep the anxiety at bay. It is better to let the anxiety be. It will decrease with time if you do not fight it.

 

That is why I am questioning you conforming to him. It seems to me you doing that would increase his anxiety and his OCD in the long run.

 

I have no professional education though. What I have is lifelong experience of OCD. I have also participated in group therapy for families with OCD children since my children have OCD too.

[whichwayisup]

CBT! Yes..

 

LB, try those books I suggested for you, hopefully your H will read them and atleast try the TEA forms.

[trinity1]

Laurie, you do realize OCD runs in the family? It has to do with both predisposition and environmental factors. So your children, or at least some of them, are likely to get OCD, and especially if your husband isn't seeking treatment.

 

My father has OCD, I have OCD, two of my children have OCD.

[trinity1]

One of my best friends married a man very similar to your husband. Just like you she accommodated to life with him and helped keep the house clean like he wanted it to be. I remember her calling me crying when she had just moved in with him. The change she had to bring about to her life style was so huge.

 

He also demanded that she get her boobs done. And that when she came down to breakfast in the morning she should be fully dressed, makeup on. He wanted not only a perfect house but also a perfect wife.

 

They have one child. The child is a bit of a nut case all by herself. My friend stayed with her husband for several years. Finally she got the motivation and courage to leave him, but it wasn't easy. He was using all his influence and will power to keep her with him.

 

Now he badmouths my friend to their daughter all the time. It's awful to see.

[xxoo]

I will say he keeps it under control (as best he can) about 85% of the time, which is great. Things have been better lately, he has been going to his office and shutting the door when he gets super anxious and then coming back and cleaning up when he calms down. That has been helping.

 

I guess the bottom line is that I can't force him to get help if he isn't ready for it. Any suggestions?

 

If he is interested in starting a family anytime soon, consider making it a condition of getting pregnant.

 

Seriously, you have the capacity to be patient now, and he has the option to leave the situation and go to his office now, but these things will change 1. in the delivery room, and 2. when you are recovering from childbirth, now with a newborn to care for. Sure, he will still have the option to leave and calm down, but it will be a crappy option when you NEED him to be a functional adult around the clock.

 

And it just gets more necessary from there, after the babies come and the children grow and THEY need their dad to be a functional adult. That is when the resentment will set it--when he is freaking out and checking out, and it is affecting your children.

[trinity1]

OMG- And he is the one really Wanting a baby now- he is gonna be in for a rude awakening!

how does he even manage to have sex? all those bodily fluids and all......

 

My friend's husband forced her to take a bath before he would touch her every time they were going to have sex. Laurie, does your husband have demands on your personal hygiene as well?

[trinity1]

He has told me that if he just does it then I will never learn to be cleaner because I will take advantage of the fact that he just does it, and stop trying. A sort of enabling so to speak. I always try to make the point that I married him KNOWING this about him and knowing that he wouldn't change and I would have to deal with it. But sometimes I feel like I'm his "project" that he wants to change me into being a neat freak like him..which will never happen.

 

That's the controlling part of OCD taking over. And his skewed way of thinking because of his OCD. To him, it makes perfect sense. To those who don't have OCD and have his way of processing and thinking, it's not normal.

 

Sorry for multi-posting, Laurie, but I have been reading through your thread and your story really gets to me, because 1) I have OCD myself, 2) I have seen my friend suffer through her marriage.

 

I do not agree with what WWIU says above. To someone with OCD the OCD does not make sense and the OCD way of processing and thinking does not seem normal. You see the craziness in your actions, but you can not stop yourself from performing them, the anxiety gets too large. I was so relieved when I found out that I had OCD because then I understood I was not crazy.

 

Someone who thinks his obsessive compulsive actions make perfect sense has an obsessive compulsive personality. They do not have OCD, and they will not change, they will not respond to therapy. The fact that your husband thought your therapist would agree with him concerning the toothpaste on the sink handle is one more sign which tells me that your husband most likely has an obsessive compulsive personality, not OCD.

[Lauriebell82]

Yeah, I would probably agree my husband has more of an Obsessive Compulsive Personality then actual OCD. That's why I have tried to keep him coping skills, because that is what treatment for this really focused on. Prozac is used to treat the condition as well, combined with a form of pyshodynamic counseling. It's treatable, but process is slow and it's difficult (as are all personality disorders) to treat because it's them. I think he has a mild case of it.

 

What I don't understand is, he is desperate for this order and perfection, but at the same time he DOES actually acknowledge that he has this issue and this anxiety effects me. He thinks he has OCD, not OCPD, which makes me think he realizes he has a problem, and he actually does try to control it, but isn't able to (which are characteristics of OCD). So it's almost like he has a mixture of the two, which is very unusual.

 

I actually think therapy could help him, I could also if he would let me. He had it MUCH worse when we first moved in together, but talking about it and being pateint and understanding (while helping him with coping skills) has helped. I dont know.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Lauriebell82

[trinity1]

Coping skills sounds good, and first things first you need to look after you. You need to make sure you deal with his issues in the best way possible for you to not be more affected than necessary. That's why I would recommend you to go to a professional expert on OCD to get advice on how you should behave in the best interest of your husband and yourself.

 

Are you saying psychodynamic counseling helps with OCPD? Because I know for a fact it doesn't help for OCD.

[Lauriebell82]

Coping skills sounds good, and first things first you need to look after you. You need to make sure you deal with his issues in the best way possible for you to not be more affected than necessary. That's why I would recommend you to go to a professional expert on OCD to get advice on how you should behave in the best interest of your husband and yourself.

 

Are you saying psychodynamic counseling helps with OCPD? Because I know for a fact it doesn't help for OCD.

 

I make sure I try to look after myself. It sounds like I'm making excuses for him, but this isn't like an everyday occurance that this happens, he is still high functioning. It doesn't seem to effect his friendships or family relationships, it just seems like I am the target..maybe because I'm the closest to him? It's not a huge issue really in our marriage either, we are really happy, it just creeps in every now and then.

 

Psychodynamic counseling helps with OCPD because it's a briefer form of psychotherapy. Behavioral therapy doesn't work with personality disorders because as I said, it's "them" and personality is very hard to change.

 

I think his case is fairly mild, and with coping skills he can learn to control it. There is another coping skill that I know to deal with anxiety, when he sees a mess, instead of fleeing to his office (which he won't be able to do when we have kids) he needs to close his eyes and count to 10 and then open them. IME, it helps to ease the anxiety and then he can think with a clear head instead of respond with his anxiety.

[xxoo]

I think his case is fairly mild, and with coping skills he can learn to control it. There is another coping skill that I know to deal with anxiety, when he sees a mess, instead of fleeing to his office (which he won't be able to do when we have kids) he needs to close his eyes and count to 10 and then open them. IME, it helps to ease the anxiety and then he can think with a clear head instead of respond with his anxiety.

 

You sound like you've adopted patient/therapist roles.

 

Seeing first hand how he struggled post-surgery, why wouldn't you insist on treatment before adding a child to the mix?

 

Have you spent time with children (particularly ages 3-5) with anxiety or OCD tendencies? One word that comes to mind is: rigid. They can be extremely challenging. The kind of child that you see---screaming in the store because some small thing went wrong--and think "My child will never be like that!" Well, guess what? That is the kind of behavior that comes with the territory. That behavior is amplified if the parent is ALSO rigid.

[Lauriebell82]

You sound like you've adopted patient/therapist roles.

 

Seeing first hand how he struggled post-surgery, why wouldn't you insist on treatment before adding a child to the mix?

 

Have you spent time with children (particularly ages 3-5) with anxiety or OCD tendencies? One word that comes to mind is: rigid. They can be extremely challenging. The kind of child that you see---screaming in the store because some small thing went wrong--and think "My child will never be like that!" Well, guess what? That is the kind of behavior that comes with the territory. That behavior is amplified if the parent is ALSO rigid.

 

His mom told me that when she would take him to the grocery store when he was little she would give him a box of cookies to hold and he would be great, almost like it would distract him. He told me once before that in dealing with an infant or child who is disruptive, he would not freak out because they don't "know better" but when someone else (like me) is disruptive to his routine he gets upset because I should know not to. I understand those are obsessive tendencies. As far as therapy goes, he will not respond to someone challenging his "beliefs." So I fear that a therapist will try and do this and it will not help him at all, he will just get mad and upset. I don't know.

[trinity1]

I make sure I try to look after myself. It sounds like I'm making excuses for him, but this isn't like an everyday occurance that this happens, he is still high functioning. It doesn't seem to effect his friendships or family relationships, it just seems like I am the target..maybe because I'm the closest to him? It's not a huge issue really in our marriage either, we are really happy, it just creeps in every now and then.

 

Psychodynamic counseling helps with OCPD because it's a briefer form of psychotherapy. Behavioral therapy doesn't work with personality disorders because as I said, it's "them" and personality is very hard to change.

 

I think his case is fairly mild, and with coping skills he can learn to control it. There is another coping skill that I know to deal with anxiety, when he sees a mess, instead of fleeing to his office (which he won't be able to do when we have kids) he needs to close his eyes and count to 10 and then open them. IME, it helps to ease the anxiety and then he can think with a clear head instead of respond with his anxiety.

 

Interesting with the psychodynamic counseling for OCPD.

 

I think you are very brave and smart to be thinking about these issues and to be talking about them as openly as you are in your posts. OCD is a disorder which the person effected by it usually tries to hide, so it is very good if the people involved can be open about it.

 

It is very likely that you are "the target" because you are the closest to him. I know when I was having problems with my OCD my son was the only one I showed it to. You let the guard done with those closest to you.

[Lauriebell82]

Interesting with the psychodynamic counseling for OCPD.

 

I think you are very brave and smart to be thinking about these issues and to be talking about them as openly as you are in your posts. OCD is a disorder which the person effected by it usually tries to hide, so it is very good if the people involved can be open about it.

 

It is very likely that you are "the target" because you are the closest to him. I know when I was having problems with my OCD my son was the only one I showed it to. You let the guard done with those closest to you.

 

When he came home for his lunch hour I tried to have a talk with him, it didn't really pan out as I hoped. We didn't get in an argument, but it wasn't constructive and he just ended up being hurt and upset. He's essentially confused over the difference between wanting things done "his way"(like wanting things neat and orderly) and compromising (eating a restaurant of his choice one night). I think the only way to deal with my husband is to just help him keep the order in his life that he wants and be supportive when things fall apart. He's not a bad guy, I don't want to paint him in a bad light or anything. He truely does love me and treats me well. But when his anxiety gets the best of him, it's like he has this whole other side to him.

[trinity1]

I'm glad to hear your husband loves you and treats you well. I think the key is for you to know that you choose to be with him, and then find the best way for you to be attached to him but detached to his disorder. What I mean is that it is important for you to find a way to live with this without being adversely affected yourself.

 

You have started out great with being open for different solutions, trying to find what suits you and your husband the best. Just make sure never to compromise yourself. Make sure you have support and are not pulled into his obsessive compulsive patterns.

 

Just to be around my husband when I have my OCD attacks is often helpful to me. Just knowing that he loves me and supports me makes it easier to withstand the anxiety.

 

Your husband now knows that there is help to find, so now it is up to him. There is no use going on about it in my opinion. Unless you feel it is a requirement before deciding on kids. In that case I think you should bring it up again when appropriate.

 

Did you know that people with OCD have a higher rate of living single? Your husband is very lucky to have such a loving wife.