I outed MM to his wife 12 months ago today

[anne1707]

MM had no plans to stay out late until she called.

He did stay out late. He didn't lie to her

 

But he did lie. It was a lie of omission because he did not say "I'm going to be late because I want have dinner with my OW"

[woinlove]

I honestly don't know.

I spoke to his wife after I had read a post on LS about letting the BS know and it resonated with me. I thought it would nip things in the bud/throw a light on the situtaion that would make all parties consider their positions. I was extremely surprised that nothing changed.

 

Sounds like you made one call (or however you contacted the W) 12 months ago and have been waiting ever since for something to happen. One whole year of your life waiting and you still don't know what you want. Focus on figuring out what you want. If you want to be with MM, but with him divorced, then tell him that and decide on a plan, how much longer you will wait for it to happen. If you don't want to be with MM, then end things. If you want to continue to be with MM and have him stay married, then you don't have to do anything.

[blissfullyoblivious]

But he did lie. It was a lie of omission because he did not say "I'm going to be late because I want have dinner with my OW"

 

Incorrect.

 

We make plans together rather than him deciding what he wants to do.

 

He knows my schedule and I do not change it to accommodate him. I cannot eat for several hours before the class I take because it is very intense. There was no way I was going to have dinner.

 

He went out with some friends then took me home. Simple.

[blissfullyoblivious]

Sounds like you made one call (or however you contacted the W) 12 months ago and have been waiting ever since for something to happen. One whole year of your life waiting and you still don't know what you want. Focus on figuring out what you want. If you want to be with MM, but with him divorced, then tell him that and decide on a plan, how much longer you will wait for it to happen. If you don't want to be with MM, then end things. If you want to continue to be with MM and have him stay married, then you don't have to do anything.

 

I have not been ruminating for 12 months.

Just remembered the date and started musing.

I have a full life - MM is an option not a priority!

Just trying to understand the dynamic between the spouses.

[anne1707]

Incorrect.

 

We make plans together rather than him deciding what he wants to do.

 

He knows my schedule and I do not change it to accommodate him. I cannot eat for several hours before the class I take because it is very intense. There was no way I was going to have dinner.

 

He went out with some friends then took me home. Simple.

 

 

But he lied to his wife!

[woinlove]

I have not been ruminating for 12 months.

Just remembered the date and started musing.

I have a full life - MM is an option not a priority!

Just trying to understand the dynamic between the spouses.

 

Okay, I thought your OP about "everything has changed for me" implied you weren't happy with the situation. If all is fine, you don't have to do anything, as most likely things will continue on as they are. I wouldn't spend much time trying to understand the dynamic between the spouses - when someone lives with someone day in and day out, it can be impossible for others to figure out what is really going on, particularly when one of them has shown that he lies. You might as well just imagine whatever it is you want to imagine, because you'll never fully piece together that particular puzzle.

[OWoman]

BO, their dynamic sounds toxic - but it's theirs. Of more concern to you should be what you want, if anything, from this MM and how, if at all, he relates to you.

 

If you want a R with him, what kind of R do you want? Does it matter to you if he treats his W one way, and you another - or would you only be interested in a man who treated everyone equally? Would it make a difference to you if he stood up and asserted agency in his own life by breaking up cleanly with the W he clearly has no respect for - or are you happy for him to continue his passive-aggressive games on the side, as long as his R with you meets your standards of relating?

 

Why I'm asking is... from your responses to other posters, you seem to be wanting him to demonstrate some kind of consistency in how he behaves, or meet some kind of behavioural norms. Which he clearly isn't doing. If you're happy to continue your involvement with a man who so clearly disrespects his W in this way, that's fine - but then your expectation of behavioural consistency needs to be adjusted downward. Or, if your standards are uncompromising, you need to question why you're with him when he's clearly not going to meet those.

 

It's your call. He's not about to change, so you'll either need to accept what he's offering on his terms, or tell him to come back when he's prepared to act like an adult.

 

Good luck.

[blissfullyoblivious]

BO, their dynamic sounds toxic - but it's theirs. Of more concern to you should be what you want, if anything, from this MM and how, if at all, he relates to you.

 

If you want a R with him, what kind of R do you want? Does it matter to you if he treats his W one way, and you another - or would you only be interested in a man who treated everyone equally? Would it make a difference to you if he stood up and asserted agency in his own life by breaking up cleanly with the W he clearly has no respect for - or are you happy for him to continue his passive-aggressive games on the side, as long as his R with you meets your standards of relating?

 

Why I'm asking is... from your responses to other posters, you seem to be wanting him to demonstrate some kind of consistency in how he behaves, or meet some kind of behavioural norms. Which he clearly isn't doing. If you're happy to continue your involvement with a man who so clearly disrespects his W in this way, that's fine - but then your expectation of behavioural consistency needs to be adjusted downward. Or, if your standards are uncompromising, you need to question why you're with him when he's clearly not going to meet those.

 

It's your call. He's not about to change, so you'll either need to accept what he's offering on his terms, or tell him to come back when he's prepared to act like an adult.

 

Good luck.

 

Wow. I think you just answered the question I didn't know I was posing.

This is exactly right. The inconstancy bothers me and it is no good him being wonderful to me if he can treat someone else so shabbily.

 

Passive aggressive I need to look up but the toxic dynamic is clear.

 

Thank you for cutting to the chase.

Edited February 9, 2011 by blissfullyoblivious

[blissfullyoblivious]

 

If he is waiting for her to divorce him he will be waiting a long time. Her being thoughtful and calling about his tea does not sound like a woman running to the divorce lawyer. It sounds like a happy woman who wants to keep her husband happy.

 

I guess you had to be there.

A happy woman does not use subterfuge to find out if/when her husband will return home. Especially when he has asked her not to call him at work unless there is an emergency. He stayed out late to upset her.

[anne1707]

 

I guess you had to be there.

A happy woman does not use subterfuge to find out if/when her husband will return home. Especially when he has asked her not to call him at work unless there is an emergency. He stayed out late to upset her.

 

I think that says more about him than it does her. That is so juvenile of him.

[donnamaybe]

He wants her to divorce him and it has become a battle of wills.

WHAT?!

 

I'm sorry, but if he wanted a divorce, he is free to file. It matters not to the outcome who files. He's blowing smoke you-know-where to keep you hanging around.

 

Move on so you can have a happier life.

[donnamaybe]

He has no reason to leave her when she is so

amenable to his extra curricular activities.

And he has no reason to leave her when you are so amenable to him staying in his marriage.

[Mme. Chaucer]

All parties in this triad are behaving passive-agressively or at least passively.

 

You - "thought he would leave you alone" after you made a big move that was intended to change his life.

 

He - is "waiting for her to divorce him." Goes out after work to "upset" her. More.

 

She - puts up with him cheating (passive).

 

Nobody seems inclined to take any decisive action. The tone of your OP indicates that you are not happy with this situation, but your subsequent posts seem to convey a bravado of your own: The relationship is 100% on YOUR terms, you don't want to get married (does this mean you don't want an exclusive, full time committed relationship with him? Or just that you don't care about a ceremony to formalize it?) You don't say anything to let us know that you like, love, care about, or respect this man.

 

YOU are the one who is responsible for taking direct action in this situation, to make it right for YOU. I promise you that you have NO idea about what his relations with his wife are, and I am just guessing but she probably thinks his affair with you is in the past. You are waiting for him to "do the right thing" (what is that? To be faithful to his wife, or to leave her for you, or to have open polyamory? Or what?) He is waiting for her to divorce him (what a crock. Why doesn't he divorce her, if he wants a divorce? How can you not question that?)

 

Anyway, what do YOU want. Take a stand for that and live by the outcome. Forget about the wife, her position in this is really NYB.

[bentnotbroken]

[quote=blissfullyoblivious;3238768He has no reason to leave her when she is so

amenable to his extra curricular activities.

 

She could be playing the long game holding on until he realises that he will

NEVER find anyone as accommodating as her. E.g. She called him yesterday afternoon asking him what he wanted for his tea. He told her he would be home late then asked me if I wanted to grab a bite with him. We work together so i heard this first hand.

I had a yoga class so declined so he went out with some of the guys for a few beers. He met me at the studio afterwards and gave me a lift home.

He can be very thoughtful.[/B]

 

 

Sure he can. He can also play the punk. NO action, IS action. Everyone in this situation is waiting for some else to make the moves.

[stillafool]

Nothing has changed for them.

Everything has changed for me.

I can see how little he thinks of her and it makes me sad.

He did not cut me off or seek revenge. He tells me I make him happy and that he still loves me.

The problem is I no longer feel the same. I resent him for not 'doing the right thing'. I resent her for not taking control of her life so that he does not stamp on her heart again.

I thought he would leave me alone. The plan backfired.

What is the point of coming clean to the BS if they do not care?

 

What was the purpose of outing the MM if you were still going to have an affair with him? I thought the purpose of "outing" an affair partner was to end the affair. Why on earth are you still involved with him? You and his wife deserve better.

[NoIDidn't]

All parties in this triad are behaving passive-agressively or at least passively.

 

You - "thought he would leave you alone" after you made a big move that was intended to change his life.

 

He - is "waiting for her to divorce him." Goes out after work to "upset" her. More.

 

She - puts up with him cheating (passive).

 

Nobody seems inclined to take any decisive action. The tone of your OP indicates that you are not happy with this situation, but your subsequent posts seem to convey a bravado of your own: The relationship is 100% on YOUR terms, you don't want to get married (does this mean you don't want an exclusive, full time committed relationship with him? Or just that you don't care about a ceremony to formalize it?) You don't say anything to let us know that you like, love, care about, or respect this man.

 

YOU are the one who is responsible for taking direct action in this situation, to make it right for YOU. I promise you that you have NO idea about what his relations with his wife are, and I am just guessing but she probably thinks his affair with you is in the past. You are waiting for him to "do the right thing" (what is that? To be faithful to his wife, or to leave her for you, or to have open polyamory? Or what?) He is waiting for her to divorce him (what a crock. Why doesn't he divorce her, if he wants a divorce? How can you not question that?)

 

Anyway, what do YOU want. Take a stand for that and live by the outcome. Forget about the wife, her position in this is really NYB.

 

 

Good points. I'm just not clear from bliss's statements that the W knows he's cheating. Who knows? But its certainly not the business of bliss as to what the W should or shouldn't be doing.

 

I just know I couldn't possibly say positive things about a man I know is trying to goad his W into divorcing him. From the example given, he's not thoughtful and he lies to his W.

[whichwayisup]

 

I guess you had to be there.

A happy woman does not use subterfuge to find out if/when her husband will return home. Especially when he has asked her not to call him at work unless there is an emergency. He stayed out late to upset her.

 

Keep this in mind. Look how he is treating his wife. The woman he said vows to, infront of their family and friends. He purposely is being a d!ck to her, aka gaslighting her, being cruel. Fast forward abit.. They divorce. And now you are married to him. What makes you think he's going to treat you better than her? When life gets rough, things get in the way, stresses, arguments, disagreements.. LOOK at the disrespect, why would he treat you any different down the line?

[Woman In Blue]

Watch very closely how this guy treats his wife. He has zero respect for HER, her role in his life, and their marriage.

 

Sounds to me as though she's quite used to him acting like a jerk. It's like she's beaten down. You're probably not his first 'dalliance' and certainly won't be his last.

 

Any man who shows this type of contempt for a woman he supposedly loves is a real piece of garbage.

[blissfullyoblivious]

Sure he can. He can also play the punk. NO action, IS action. Everyone in this situation is waiting for some else to make the moves.

 

Noted and agreed.

[blissfullyoblivious]

Watch very closely how this guy treats his wife. He has zero respect for HER, her role in his life, and their marriage.

 

Sounds to me as though she's quite used to him acting like a jerk. It's like she's beaten down. You're probably not his first 'dalliance' and certainly won't be his last.

 

Any man who shows this type of contempt for a woman he supposedly loves is a real piece of garbage.

 

This is the dilemma.

I recall seeing someone once that I started to resent. In the end it got so bad that I even hated the way he breathed (I am not proud of this). The point is that "good" people can become so jaded with their SO that they act out in the coldest ways rather than just ending things. No one is perfect!

 

My SO hadn't done anything "wrong" that I could put my finger on. My feelings had changed and with the benefit of hindsight I blamed him.

Edited February 10, 2011 by blissfullyoblivious

[woinlove]

This is the dilemma.

I recall seeing someone once that I started to resent. In the end it got so bad that I even hated the way he breathed (I am not proud of this). The point is that "good" people can become so jaded with their SO that they act out in the coldest ways rather than just ending things. No one is perfect!

 

My SO hadn't done anything "wrong" that I could put my finger on. My feelings had changed and with the benefit of hindsight I blamed him.

 

 

No one is perfect but I think what you are struggling with is not whether MM is perfect but whether his bad behavior toward his W is good enough for you.

 

I've never been in an R where I treated my SO with contempt before leaving. So, I don't have much understanding for how someone can live a year or more of their life treating their spouse with such contempt. However, it seems like you are more on the edge - maybe you can understand and overlook it for the type of R you want with MM or maybe you want to spend your time with someone who treats others better. It's difficult to get a sense of which way you lean on that. I don't think others can tell you what to think about this. For me, it is very important that those I spend significant time with and share a close R with treat others well. For you, maybe it is different.

[steelknife]

Do you know she told you the truth? Sometimes the OW lies to the W or the W lies to the OW. It seems to come with the territory of being tied to a MM who has tried to deceive the W and the W (and often the OW) not knowing who to trust once she learns she cannot trust her H. Maybe she didn't believe you, maybe she didn't want you to see her pain, maybe something else. I'm not saying the W lied to you, because I don't know anything about her, but I just wonder if you feel you know that she told you the truth.

 

why hang around then? if you can, if it doesnt hurt, leave. that is the best thing you can do for yourself. and never look back.

 

 

i believe the bs cant show directly to the ow waht she truly feels or thnks, after all. her dignity is at stake. whatever is it bet them and the ws, they had to deal with it bet the two of them.

 

in my case, the bs was able to tell me it wasnt just me, i thnk she said it so i can move on and not hang around for him to come around. but the way i see it, i dont thnk she has any plans now or in the future to leave him or ask him to leav despite the fact that these has been on going, the cheating again and again. i dont really know for sure bec ive erased all traces of me in their life, everything. but not the damage definetely but thats all together another story.

 

and from what i understood on that particular conversation i had, she said, she is so used to woman calling her and telling her about her husband and she knows about them. and she has come to the point that it gets tiring. if she is not doing anything about it. then thats her thing, at first i expected her to get angry and say i will end this and all. but she asked me when i told her he hasnt stop "waht do you want me to do steel, do you want me to tell him?" (so stop calling me i guess but is that the right answer to the ow who calls you) but whatever, its their marriage. im out of it. i dont want to thnk anymore. it is over and done with. i have my own issues. and i have to come into terms with mine, with me. and not theirs or anyone elses.

 

my heart goes out to the bs. but she has her reasons for staying. whatever it may be, and i have asked for her forgiveness. but i can not forgive the xmm for playing with my feelings and making me believe otherwise, ive finally met the guy my mother warned me about.

 

in this kind of things, there are two lessons i learned the very hard way;

1. if he can do it to his wife, he can do it to you. just wait.

2. if you dont want it done to you, dont do it to others.

 

sk

[blissfullyoblivious]

why hang around then? if you can, if it doesnt hurt, leave. that is the best thing you can do for yourself. and never look back.

 

 

i believe the bs cant show directly to the ow waht she truly feels or thnks, after all. her dignity is at stake. whatever is it bet them and the ws, they had to deal with it bet the two of them.

 

in my case, the bs was able to tell me it wasnt just me, i thnk she said it so i can move on and not hang around for him to come around. but the way i see it, i dont thnk she has any plans now or in the future to leave him or ask him to leav despite the fact that these has been on going, the cheating again and again. i dont really know for sure bec ive erased all traces of me in their life, everything. but not the damage definetely but thats all together another story.

 

and from what i understood on that particular conversation i had, she said, she is so used to woman calling her and telling her about her husband and she knows about them. and she has come to the point that it gets tiring. if she is not doing anything about it. then thats her thing, at first i expected her to get angry and say i will end this and all. but she asked me when i told her he hasnt stop "waht do you want me to do steel, do you want me to tell him?" (so stop calling me i guess but is that the right answer to the ow who calls you) but whatever, its their marriage. im out of it. i dont want to thnk anymore. it is over and done with. i have my own issues. and i have to come into terms with mine, with me. and not theirs or anyone elses.

 

my heart goes out to the bs. but she has her reasons for staying. whatever it may be, and i have asked for her forgiveness. but i can not forgive the xmm for playing with my feelings and making me believe otherwise, ive finally met the guy my mother warned me about.

 

in this kind of things, there are two lessons i learned the very hard way;

1. if he can do it to his wife, he can do it to you. just wait.

2. if you dont want it done to you, dont do it to others.

 

sk

 

SK - Thank you for your insightful post.

You are quite right. Once you realize that MM is no prize but a person that makes good and bad choices then it is easy to decide whether to keep him in your life (in any capacity).

 

The BS makes her own choices and her reasoning his hers alone. We all have to live with ourselves and this is her way of moving forward.

 

I don't have the capacity to let a romantic partner abuse my goodwill, love and support. Their is no reciprocity in that situation and for me a partnership has to equal. Not one person more "equal" than the other.

That would be a recipe for disaster - for me anyway!