My Wife is No Longer in Love with Me

[worldgonewrong]

The longer she takes to call, the harder it will be for me to be nice and loving to her when she calls.

 

Yup. which is why it's incumbent upon you to break the vicious cycle.

She's going to expect you to react negatively and thus solidify, in her mind, why you're not meant to be together.

Try the opposite and you might get somewhere. baby steps.

[ShatteredReality]

ShatteredReality:

I'm curious - you say that you "flipped instantly". How did that happen or manifest itself? What was the 'lightbulb' that went off in your mind?

 

I hope this does not constitute threadjacking, but I'm really curious, too.

 

Ok so I had no idea how difficult that statement would be to explain until someone asked me to clarify!!! Ok - here's the best way I can put it into words and hopefully not completely trip all over myself.

 

First off, the guilt from my A was with me from the moment the whole thing started. And the way that I felt about it - about myself...it was not a wonderful thing. I was sorry I had inflicted pain on him...and I knew I handled a bad situation worse. Before it happened I had always seen people who have affairs as bad and wrong and messed up selfish jerks who deserved every bit of pain that came their way....therefore I didn't really see myself as any different - it was very shocking to feel that way about myself. I had to work on that - still do even. But our near break up / reconciliation really had nothing to do with the affair. I wasn't leaving him for another man...I broke things off completely with OM before making my plans to move out....

 

So...I wasn't in love with him...therefore...it was easier to think of myself. I loved him - he was my first true love, the father to my kids, my first husband and the man I had given the most innocent parts of my "love" to - you cannot give that away twice (I am not talking about sex - I wasn't a virgin when I met him - and a part of me always regretted that I couldn't have given him that also). But I had nothing left to give to him. I had no more energy...nor WANT to offer anything to him at all. Therefore it was his turn to work. After so many years of mistreatment and self neglect I was done.

 

Once I started to have a crush on him, though...that melted the ice around my heart a little...and during one of our dates I found myself caressing the palm of his hand and cuddling up against him with my face by his neck and I realized for the first time in years that I wanted to kiss him and make out with him - not because it's what I wanted physically, but because I was in love with my husband again. That was it, that night I didn't think any more because I was too scared - even to the point of nasea...but the following morning I wrote in a journal I had been keeping and sifted through all of my emotions and realized what I'd done to him. It was no longer where did I go wrong - how did I do this awful thing that only bad people do - what was I thinking....it was OH MY GOD HOW COULD I HURT THE MAN THAT I LOVE SO BADLY!!! And there it was...I was no longer working on just the mistakes I made against myself...I was at that moment forward making amends for the wrongs I had committed against him. Talk about a tearbath...I was a mess...I sobbed hysterically (I don't like to cry so this took him completely off guard). I told him to go - I told him to leave me and never look back. I told him I wasn't worth his time and forget I existed. I even offered to let him have the kids and to just disappear...I told him I wasn't worth their time either. Real Bi-Polar stuff - and I am not Bi-Polar or depressed or any of that. I suffer from General Anxiety Disorder - which fully formed around that timeframe and hasn't ever gone away. Up until then I had apologized for what I'd done, and I meant it - I never wanted to hurt him....but I didn't feel he had a right to hold anything against me given the things he had done to me....not that he deserved it or anything like that...just that all of his wrongs put together nearly equalled this one huge thing I had done. After that point I never saw it that way again...he had created a hill of really bad things and I had created a mountain....and I had to climb the damned thing and rappel down the other side to get to his hill to take his hand and walk down the rest of the way with him. This has been a long lasting effect...even just a week ago I broke down and cried because of all the pressure. I have been working extra and a little impatient at home...complaining about things I could probably just suck it up and move forward...so I had a total breakdown - cried and asked him why he stayed when there are better women out there. Why put up with someone who is capable of such atrocities...and now he reminds me I didn't get to the emotional state I was in completely alone...that he bears responsibility. I own my actions - that was all me. My emotional state, though, that was him. He had a part in putting me in such a vulnerable state...

 

So it was like a switch flipped. I can compare it only to this - over the years I have said and done things to hurt my sisters feelings...I have said and done things to disappoint her...but we're still sisters. We have worked through these things and we still love eachother. So whatever I have done against her I have moved on and so has she. And the things I have said or done are no worse than any of the things she's said or done to me over the years. At first it was sort of like that - I did something horrible to him and I recognized it as such, but it wasn't nearly as crushing as knowing you've done something horrible to the person you love more than you even care for yourself. It also grew out of being vaguely equal to all this wrongs into a huge towering beast I could never bury or rectify. The intimidation there was nearly insurmountable.

 

Jstobos wife had an EA - I have heard this is vastly different from a PA. That means (in my little head) that her guilt will be far less - but that doesn't mean it will not be there. Once she's willing to admit she's in love with him again she will have to face that guilt - if she hasn't already. I didn't tell my husband why I broke down...he still doesn't know why I suddenly went from cautious and guarded to an insecure puddle of tears overnight. And the cryings jags started out every night for about a week...but then after that now it only happens once or twice every six months....hopefully they will eventually disappear because nothing makes me feel as weak and pitiful as when I cry uncontrollably.

 

So...I hope I made sense there...and that I was able to convey it properly...but be sure to ask me to clarify anything that doesn't make sense or jive with anything else I've said - I have been misread a time or two in the past...lol

[jstobo]

We had a good conversation. I think the issues are really starting to be laid out on the table and I'm starting to figure things out more and more. My W has mentioned several times she feels I am disappointed with her or frustrated with her. I asked her the other day to described to me what that means. When she called she said she knows I am very impressed with her as a mother, artist, person etc. etc. I'm disappointed in her as a Wife. She said she seems to let me down in so many little ways. Whether its how she responds to an e-mail, how she hugs me hello or goodbye, how she may kiss me, that she may not reach out to me in time before I get disappointed.

 

She is 100% right. I wish she hugged or kissed me more often, e-mail or texted me more often, told me she loved me more often. But my W just isn't that way. Its not in her. But she does love me. She just shows it in different ways I don't recognize. Since I have a negative reaction to the times she does reach out to me, she is fearful to do it at all. I need to let this woman open up and be who she is without the fear of me being upset about it. I meet with a therapist tomorrow for the first time who is helping a friend of mine. I am hopeful, she'll give me tools to recognize my disappointment and change my actions. I have a feeling, the more I let my W reach out and don't react the more she'll start to reach out.

 

We agreed to go out on another date this Friday night. I think I am finally understanding what my W is doing. I need strength and patience. We've been in different homes for two months. If another man was involved, I would have heard about it by now and my W wouldn't be going on dates with me. I still feel lonely since I'm going to my place alone tonight, but my W feels fear. If I can deal with my loneliness, lack of confidence and patience; I think my W will start to lose her fear. I think I'm going to need all of you a lot over the next couple of weeks to keep me on track. I'll keep posting!! You do the same.

[worldgonewrong]

keeping you in my thoughts, jstobo.

[ShatteredReality]

We had a good conversation. I think the issues are really starting to be laid out on the table and I'm starting to figure things out more and more. My W has mentioned several times she feels I am disappointed with her or frustrated with her. I asked her the other day to described to me what that means. When she called she said she knows I am very impressed with her as a mother, artist, person etc. etc. I'm disappointed in her as a Wife. She said she seems to let me down in so many little ways. Whether its how she responds to an e-mail, how she hugs me hello or goodbye, how she may kiss me, that she may not reach out to me in time before I get disappointed.

 

She is 100% right. I wish she hugged or kissed me more often, e-mail or texted me more often, told me she loved me more often. But my W just isn't that way. Its not in her. But she does love me. She just shows it in different ways I don't recognize. Since I have a negative reaction to the times she does reach out to me, she is fearful to do it at all. I need to let this woman open up and be who she is without the fear of me being upset about it. I meet with a therapist tomorrow for the first time who is helping a friend of mine. I am hopeful, she'll give me tools to recognize my disappointment and change my actions. I have a feeling, the more I let my W reach out and don't react the more she'll start to reach out.

 

We agreed to go out on another date this Friday night. I think I am finally understanding what my W is doing. I need strength and patience. We've been in different homes for two months. If another man was involved, I would have heard about it by now and my W wouldn't be going on dates with me. I still feel lonely since I'm going to my place alone tonight, but my W feels fear. If I can deal with my loneliness, lack of confidence and patience; I think my W will start to lose her fear. I think I'm going to need all of you a lot over the next couple of weeks to keep me on track. I'll keep posting!! You do the same.

 

This is SOOOOOOOO Valuable!! My H used to tell me the same things - I am an affectionate person, but he needs even more than I automatically give...so unless I am concentrating on it all the time there will be times he feels I am not reaching out...perhaps it's his insecurities. That's a battle he's been fighting forever also - he needs constant reassurance of my love or he doubts it.

 

Once I stopped by a local cafe and got both our favorite kinds of lattes and brought it to him...this was in the beginning of me being nice to him again...later he told me it was one of the ways that he knew he was winning me over. I did something for him that didn't really "mean" anything to him, except that when he thought about it - it was something that I would have greatly appreciated...so he saw it from that angle. Did that make sense or did I just speak in a giant circle?? lol. Basically, because it was something that would have meant a lot to ME he realized it was not just some random gesture....ok I give up -

 

But I totally get where your wife is coming from!! Keep us posted for sure after date night on Friday! Once the first wall comes tumbling down it they all will...not to say she won't still have her moments...but just saying.

[Steadfast]

I wasn't leaving him for another man...I broke things off completely with OM before making my plans to move out....

 

So...I wasn't in love with him...therefore...it was easier to think of myself. I loved him - he was my first true...

 

I have to break into this thread and ask some personal questions. I understand that you aren't in my ex-wife's head and most certainly don't know the history of our relationship...pre and post divorce. Yet, reading your comments has stirred up some self-doubts about my actions and reactions, and I'd like your take in it ShatteredReality. If for nothing more than to clarify what you felt during this time, and how I can apply it to me.

 

Her cycle: cheated, confessed, defensive cruel, softened, repeat. While I was trying to make sense of it all, she went pillar to post; she didn't want to be married to anyone else, then she didn't want to be married, more meanness, more secretive behavior, quiet and moody around me, laughing and loving life around friends and family. I had no answer.

 

When she complained of my 'insistence' of knowing where, when and why, she threatened to move out and I held the door open. Despite promising me she was trying to work things out in her head she had sex with (at least) two other men (confessed) then finally stated she wasn't attracted to me. When I let her go and filed, she changed into the victim, but remained steadfast in her position. By her own admission she was 'scared' of life without me, but she is very much a user. After my dad died she wanted to come home (I never agreed...in fact, I never had a chance to say anything) but shortly after he was buried she disappeared again. Weeks later, she told me she was in love with a married man and asked if I was ashamed of her. I told her I was out of her league and gave up. Divorced.

 

That was three years ago. I remained kind and encouraged the kids to see her. They have lived with me the whole time and I support them myself.

 

Far as I can tell she isn't in a relationship...but I imagine many men are in pursuit. She is very attractive. I have been seeing someone for 18 months and we are very happy. Around the first of the year she really opened up and extended herself, but I did not respond. No quotes, but she's said she thinks of me night and day, misses me, loves me, and even said once she often imagines we're still married, just to feel better. She has asked me out on dates, but never once said she wanted me. You know, like 'that'.

 

I responded kindly, but declined. I am kind to her, but not passive.

 

I tried and waited and tried some more. How much is a man supposed to tolerate? How long is he supposed to wait? Do you think your husband would have taken you back if you had a second affair? A third? If you dumped the kids on him and didn't pay support? I not only ask this for me...but for the other men who can't read minds. It is heartbreaking.

 

I am not accusing shattered, but respectfully asking for feedback. OK?

 

Sorry to threadjack jstobo. I think you're doing an amazing job of keeping it together.

[worldgonewrong]

So...I hope I made sense there...and that I was able to convey it properly...but be sure to ask me to clarify anything that doesn't make sense or jive with anything else I've said - I have been misread a time or two in the past...lol

 

Wow, thank you so much.

While every body is different, this DOES help me sort of understand the psychology of the estranged spouse...and the potential for reconciliation & change of heart if she isn't too mentally adrift. You obviously have a good heart, S.R.

[ShatteredReality]

Wow, thank you so much.

While every body is different, this DOES help me sort of understand the psychology of the estranged spouse...and the potential for reconciliation & change of heart if she isn't too mentally adrift. You obviously have a good heart, S.R.

 

Well thank you....really....My H tries telling me that I have a good heart too...I just struggle sometimes to get over things I have done and believe it...but it really means something - so thank you....

 

I have to break into this thread and ask some personal questions. I understand that you aren't in my ex-wife's head and most certainly don't know the history of our relationship...pre and post divorce. Yet, reading your comments has stirred up some self-doubts about my actions and reactions, and I'd like your take in it ShatteredReality. If for nothing more than to clarify what you felt during this time, and how I can apply it to me.

 

Her cycle: cheated, confessed, defensive cruel, softened, repeat. While I was trying to make sense of it all, she went pillar to post; she didn't want to be married to anyone else, then she didn't want to be married, more meanness, more secretive behavior, quiet and moody around me, laughing and loving life around friends and family. I had no answer.

 

I remember reading about a woman who was in a marriage where she was emotionally abused. Her son wrote that he would wait at the window and watch for her to come home just so he could see a calm and happy smile on her face...but soon learned to turn away before she got out of the car because the walk from the car to the door was too painful to watch...the smile disappeared, her shoulders began to slump, her eyes looked sad and tired.... I read about that right about the time I was making my plans to leave and it struck a hard chord with me. I felt like that was me a little...not quite to that extent...but I could relax around other people and kind of kick back, not having to worry about saying or doing the wrong thing and be insulted or yelled at for it so much...I also wasn't having to take care of any of the other people I was around unless I wanted to...so there was a choice in it.

 

The most cruel thing I did to my husband was cheat...it was the most cruel thing I COULD do....it wasn't intentional...but it was the only truly cruel thing I did. So...when I was around him I may not have been chipper and happy, but I wasn't mean and nasty either. Even during the affair time. I can understand how a person might get that way though...it was sometimes an effort not to be mean...but it's just...well it's not really so much a part of who I am personally to be that way. It makes me feel bad about me...

 

When she complained of my 'insistence' of knowing where, when and why, she threatened to move out and I held the door open. Despite promising me she was trying to work things out in her head she had sex with (at least) two other men (confessed) then finally stated she wasn't attracted to me. When I let her go and filed, she changed into the victim, but remained steadfast in her position. By her own admission she was 'scared' of life without me, but she is very much a user. After my dad died she wanted to come home (I never agreed...in fact, I never had a chance to say anything) but shortly after he was buried she disappeared again. Weeks later, she told me she was in love with a married man and asked if I was ashamed of her. I told her I was out of her league and gave up. Divorced.

 

Aha....here's where I lose big respect points...not just from you but from myself. I did it twice. Same guy, but I had two DDays within a couple of months of one another. After the first one I didn't actually make real plans to move out and leave - my H begged me to stay and I agreed, reluctantly, and mostly out of guilt. I told him about the A about three days after we were first truly physical....but it was an EA for about a month prior to that. So I broke things off with OM right away, ratted myself out...and then caved when my H begged me not to go. He became an emotional basket case. Since I was in the middle of my own minibreakdown I didn't know how to take care of him...I wasn't happy and he went from bad to worse...those four weeks before the A starte up again were torture. I had to still see OM at work and he was persuing while I was avoiding him...I had to go home to a man who didn't let me sleep, threw things, cut himself, took painkillers, began to drink, screamed at me....and the straw that broke the camels back was one night when he screamed at me half drunk in front of my kids...called me horrible names and told me how worthless I was...nothing but a waste of air...everything down to the dreaded C word. My kids were crying...it was everything I could do not to pull the car over (yes I was driving) and kick him physically out of it and leave him on the streetside. But I told myself, as he did, that this was all my fault. However, that incident sealed it for me...I called my parents and asked them to take my kids for awhile, that I was leaving my husband. They knew I'd had the affair, but they also were our neighbors for years prior and so knew of some of how he treated me, so they said they would support me - but mostly they'd do anything to keep the kids safe. They lived further away, so I made plans to send the kids to be with them in a month. So I figured I could stick it out for four weeks and then once the kids were gone I would leave and make a new home for myself and the kids, file all the paperwork and then bring them home. He knew I was sending them away, but I never discussed why - he agreed they should be spared of what was going on though, so at least there was that. He didn't ask, I didn't say.

 

About two nights later I was in the locker room trying not to cry and OM walked in...he came and hugged me and for the first time since the first affair I allowed it...I didn't fight when he tried to kiss my cheek either...he told me it'd all be ok and he'd make everything better...I didn't even tell him what was really going on...but it felt good to be held and it felt good to be accepted...so I caved and slowly let him back into my life...about two weeks later things got physical again and two weeks after that I confessed again. The kids were gone in another two weeks (four had turned to 6 for their departure) and I was preparing to leave. Had broken things off again with OM but I was also done with my H. I agreed to a few MC lessons and some IC as he entered IC. I wanted the split as amicable as possible. When the A was going on the second time I was very secretive and didn't want him knowing every detail...he knew right away something was up because before that I hadn't cared if he checked up on me...and now I don't care...so it was only when I was doing something wrong that I did...that is normal though I think.

 

That was three years ago. I remained kind and encouraged the kids to see her. They have lived with me the whole time and I support them myself.

 

Far as I can tell she isn't in a relationship...but I imagine many men are in pursuit. She is very attractive. I have been seeing someone for 18 months and we are very happy. Around the first of the year she really opened up and extended herself, but I did not respond. No quotes, but she's said she thinks of me night and day, misses me, loves me, and even said once she often imagines we're still married, just to feel better. She has asked me out on dates, but never once said she wanted me. You know, like 'that'.

 

I responded kindly, but declined. I am kind to her, but not passive.

 

I didn't want to stay with OM when I planned to leave my H. I wanted to be single. I wanted to work on myself...fix what I'd allowed to be broken...figure out who I was again...I was so lost and so confused. I was bruised and broken and torn...and the worst part was I had allowed all of it so in the end it was my fault. I don't play victim and I try to accept responsibility for my actions as much as I can - but I'll tell you this. I have seen some women go through similar things to what I went through and it's all a matter of one more wrong choice than I made or a different wrong choice and things end much worse for them than they did for me. I am so glad he didn't turn away from me...here's the thing. When it's all said and done there is one thing I have always said about him...even in the worst of times when he treated me so badly I would have preferred to be dead....even when I wasn't IN LOVE with him....He's not perfect by any means....but if he and all men were perfect - and I was too - he'd still be the perfect man for me. He was the only man I have been able to give my entire heart to repeatedly over the years, he banged it up and bashed it up (not saying I didn't return the favor a time or three) but, after a time of healing I am always quick to hand it right back to him. Why? Because it's his. I gave it to him years ago and I cannot seem to hold on to it anymore...it's always going to be his. So the thought of going and finding another man - wasn't appealing. I actually had this sick idea that we'd be ex's with benefits...I didn't want more notches on my belt so to speak and I knew it'd be awhile before I was ready to give another serious relationship a try...I mean how quickly can you go from "Oh this is the ONE" to...Oh, not so much? Let's move on? So...if you are her "ONE" then...no matter what she's done or gone through or been through...she gave you the best parts of her heart and doesn't know HOW to take them back, fix them up, and give them away again. I am not defending her...it's just how I understand things now after having been through all of it. Does any of that make sense?

 

I tried and waited and tried some more. How much is a man supposed to tolerate? How long is he supposed to wait? Do you think your husband would have taken you back if you had a second affair? A third? If you dumped the kids on him and didn't pay support? I not only ask this for me...but for the other men who can't read minds. It is heartbreaking.

 

I am not accusing shattered, but respectfully asking for feedback. OK?

 

Sorry to threadjack jstobo. I think you're doing an amazing job of keeping it together.

 

A agree that Jstobo has gained a great deal of my respect also. He's a great guy and I think he's truly not too far from having his wife back and regaining his family - hopefully having a stronger marriage when it is all said and done....

 

But as for the upper part of this last post. I told you about the second affair because you asked...yes he would have because he did. And...ultimately even if there had been another two or three guys tossed into the miss DURING THAT TIME ONLY he probably would have. This is because my mentality was (during the second part of the A anyways) that we were done and he knew this. He knew that I was finished and leaving and that, while I still beat myself up about not waiting until i was gone....I had nothing to hold on to and I deperately needed something...but that more than anything the moment I stepped out of my marriage there was a period of self loathing so fierce that I had ZERO self respect. Because of that...he had to (I did to) compartmentalize what I'd done. He had to take that period of about 6 months from start to finish and put it in a box and call all of my actions my temporary loss of sanity. It can be likened to a complete mental breakdown. I managed to form an axiety disorder during that time and take my entire life as I knew it and completely shred it from one end to the other - in a fashion that was completely unlike anything I had done up to that point in my life ever. So...it was so completely uncharacteristic that all the stuff that happened got lumped together and put in as basically one big bad incident. Does that make sense? Maybe some wouldn't see it that way...but it's helped us to work through it...and for me to heal some...to say that maybe it was something I did and not something that needed to define me...

 

How long should he wait...well I cannot tell you that...it's all circumstancial. I know for my husband he had to prove that he was willing to change...that the change was real...and that I had reason to stay. Before all of that happened he swears he didn't know what he'd been doing. He was blind to the effects it was having on me...he swears he had no clue even to this day that he'd hurt me like he had or that it had the effect on my self worth the way that it did. Once he saw all of that...once I tore open my figurative shirt and showed in my huge gaping wounds he was forced to sit back, accept his part in all of it...and try to fix that. He couldn't undo what I'd done...but he could try to fix all the stuff that he had a part in. He could only work on himself...and work on our marriage....we had to put the rest behind us. I was SO lucky...he was willing to open his eyes and see more than just my actions at that moment. He was able to look at the things before it and around it and beyond it. He recognized that it wasn't something that was a part of my core personality to act that way and therefore decided to put everything he had into trying to make our life Together better. It took us about a year to get to a normal place...another year before the affair wasn't such a huge beast...and now more than two years out of it we're a normal couple again. Better even...because we keep doing things to make eachother fall in love...we are no longer naive and ignorant to the things we do against one another and we do what we can to work around our imperfections and still make eachother happy....how long should a man hang on? I don't know...to a degree however long his woman did before she fell into the abyss that she allowed to grow around her while he didn't even notice it forming?? I am not saying tit for tat...but at least an attempt to fix it...does that make sense?

 

As for the kids...if I had allowed myself to continue on the path of self destruction I would not have wanted them there. I would not have wanted them to see me or learn from me that this was how a woman should be...I cannot say I would have abandoned them or not given support...but as I said before...other women who have gone through things similar to myself have made some different turns that have taken them deeper into that damned abyss than I did. A friend of mine broke up with her husband and in her "recovery" from all of it (he was verbally and emotionally abusive - her self image was totally tanked even though she was beautiful)...well she had group orgies right after she moved out..before the divorce was final....she started to live with a dealer....she got totally hooked on pot (they say it's not addictive but she's completely addicted)....she wound up marrying another man who tossed her around and now her son lives with husband number one and her daughter from her second marriage lives with her, but she had sworn off of getting married and I fear the damage may be far too great now. I will be clear...the things we allow to happen to us...the things we don't prevent...eventually become our responsibility to either stop or overcome. The actions that we allow ourselves to do from the emotions others bring out in us are not EXCUSES by any means....so it's all in understanding...some people just don't handle it very well. Your ex...she may not have the strength to look at her children right now because of how she feels inside...perhaps she loves you and misses you and realizes her mistakes...but they can never be taken back or undone and in some ways that will haunt her forever. Hmm...did I even answer your questions at all in this novel????

[Yasuandio]

This was extremely informative. For over 27 years, I've been simply dumbfounded regarding my incessent desire to remain hopeful about my problematic marriage. I had finially concluded it might be a case of Stockholm's Syndrome. However, your reasoning for repeatedly and willing "handing the heart back," despite it's condition, was exemplary!

 

But I believe your story demonstrates that enough is enough, and the abusive spouse took the wrong crossroad. It seems timing is critical in a sucessful reconcilation in such a case as this: time for the abuser to see his contribution under the shirt, VS the abusee gaining sufficient knowledge to handle and respond appropriately -- that is, not accept abuse. Can both people wake up and give each other a chance before it's too late? That's the question.

[jstobo]

I had my first meeting with a therapist today. It was a great start and I left with a lot of hope that I can be a happier person. I spent the rest of the day feeling pretty excited about my future. I had a lot of positive feelings towards my W and felt I understood a lot of where she got and is mentally. I was excited to see her at our kids practice. She came over and all the anxiety, fear and unhappiness came rushing back to me. I can't explain it. She is normal, but she is not loving. She is cold and distant. I am taking my lumps for everything I did. But I don't deserve this. I deserve to be happy. She isn't mean, but she isn't kind. I asked her to join me at a party Saturday night. She simply answered she couldn't go. My immediate thought is she must have a date. She knew I had a difficult time hearing her rejection. If she cared about me, she would tell me what she was doing. But no, she has continued to keep her business secret, which doesn't come close to rebuilding my trust. I just wish I could be done with this. I wish I could wake up each morning feeling more over this.

[Johnwilliam]

Good marriages are the backbone of healthy and happy family life. If your wife is no Longer in love with you may be it’s your imagination. May be she want some space with this relation to settle down. You can consult with any good marriage counselor they really helps you.

 

 

 

marriage counseling

[ShatteredReality]

I had my first meeting with a therapist today. It was a great start and I left with a lot of hope that I can be a happier person. I spent the rest of the day feeling pretty excited about my future. I had a lot of positive feelings towards my W and felt I understood a lot of where she got and is mentally. I was excited to see her at our kids practice. She came over and all the anxiety, fear and unhappiness came rushing back to me. I can't explain it. She is normal, but she is not loving. She is cold and distant. I am taking my lumps for everything I did. But I don't deserve this. I deserve to be happy. She isn't mean, but she isn't kind. I asked her to join me at a party Saturday night. She simply answered she couldn't go. My immediate thought is she must have a date. She knew I had a difficult time hearing her rejection. If she cared about me, she would tell me what she was doing. But no, she has continued to keep her business secret, which doesn't come close to rebuilding my trust. I just wish I could be done with this. I wish I could wake up each morning feeling more over this.

 

I'm sorry Jstobo...if you choose to continue with reconciliation there may come a time where you are finally able to lay it out to her about your insecurities. She probably knows they are there, but admitting to them shows strength. I have told my H that I cannot read his mind...if he's having a vulnerable moment I won't always just pick up on it. Maybe that's not fair and perhaps I'm supposed to, but if I ever have a vulnerable moment my automatic reaction has become to reach out to him in some way for what I need. I don't expect him to just know. Therefore I have asked for the same from him. Now, though he says it's very difficult, he tries to pull me close to him so I will put my arms around him and show him the affection he needs, or he'll flat out ask me for whatever he wants...Even when I flipped back around and was trying to make things work with him this was one of the many "aha" conversations we had to have in order to get to a good place with it. He accused me of not being affectionate enough and not showing him my love which caused him to reason it wasn't there. Obviously we've moved past it...just as you admitted before that it's just not a part of who your wife is, perhaps as she opens up more to fullfilling your needs again (as the fear that hers will go neglected again) she can start reaching out that way.

[2sunny]

I had my first meeting with a therapist today. It was a great start and I left with a lot of hope that I can be a happier person. I spent the rest of the day feeling pretty excited about my future. I had a lot of positive feelings towards my W and felt I understood a lot of where she got and is mentally. I was excited to see her at our kids practice. She came over and all the anxiety, fear and unhappiness came rushing back to me. I can't explain it. She is normal, but she is not loving. She is cold and distant. I am taking my lumps for everything I did. But I don't deserve this. I deserve to be happy. She isn't mean, but she isn't kind. I asked her to join me at a party Saturday night. She simply answered she couldn't go. My immediate thought is she must have a date. She knew I had a difficult time hearing her rejection. If she cared about me, she would tell me what she was doing. But no, she has continued to keep her business secret, which doesn't come close to rebuilding my trust. I just wish I could be done with this. I wish I could wake up each morning feeling more over this.

 

how interesting! YOU are happy and full of hope until... YOU ask her to participate on a level of loving behavior.

 

so stop asking her.

 

IF you are happy on your own - your happiness won't depend upon what SHE is or isn't doing.

 

go on - skip along - skip forward and be happy!

 

she may never skip forward. some folks like to stay stuck in that dark place even if it is unhappy there...

 

don't keep looking back - by inviting her to join you. DO IT FOR YOURSELF!

 

everyone has an opportunity to get happy - sometimes we just need to let go of what or who holds us back.

 

when we let go of what has been holding us back - we have a chance of finding out what happy looks like - all on our own.

[jstobo]

Yesterday I had to let her know that I couldn't get a babysitter for Friday. I sent a text to her and I never heard anything from her. I was actually happy I couldn't find a sitter because her cold and distant self was just someone I didn't want to hang out with. So this morning I received a text from her saying her sister could watch the kids Monday if that worked. I took an hour to respond because I truthfully don't know what I want to do. I started with a therapist yesterday and part of me wants to take some time for myself to gain tools to be a happier person. It was quite obvious that I am a severely depressed person based on my answers to the questionnaires. I feel unworthy and unlovable. Deep deep issues that goes back to my childhood.

 

So my response was simply, "can I let you know tomorrow?" She replied with "sure." An hour later she called just to say hi. She hasn't done that in weeks. 95% of our communication has been initiated by me. Whenever I pull back, she quickly reaches out. When I reach out, she withdraws. Rubberband theory I guess. When she called, she was the woman I love and adore so much. Communicative, open, sweet and loving. That's the person I hold out hope for. That person is in there, yet this other person comes out. The other person is out about 70% of the time. Its always been that way. Throughout our 13 year relationship, my W is like two different people. One I can't get enough of or love more, the other I can't stand to be around. She probably feels the same way about me.

 

Anyway, the issue at hand. My W still wants to take baby steps and date. It has been extremely difficult for me to be with her when she is so guarded and distant. I've been ready to throw in the towel on numerous occasions. Now that I've started therapy, a big part of me wants to take time for myself to heal and improve. Another part of me doesn't want to reject my W at a time she is trying to take small steps forward together.

 

To all the people worried about threadjacking; don't. I have learned a great deal reading your stories and reading the responses to your stories. Threadjack away.

[2sunny]

all this interacting... why not disconnect for a while until you learn more about yourself? and what makes you happy...

 

stick to a schedule so you two don't need to keep corresponding so much.

 

start problem solving on your own- stop looking to her every time you have a little issue or problem. get a babysitter!!! pay one!

 

a woman loves and respects a man who knows how to make things happen! you keep asking to hold onto her purse strings... stop that!

 

get busy being independent of her.

 

you will both be happier for it.

[jstobo]

all this interacting... why not disconnect for a while until you learn more about yourself? and what makes you happy...

 

stick to a schedule so you two don't need to keep corresponding so much.

 

start problem solving on your own- stop looking to her every time you have a little issue or problem. get a babysitter!!! pay one!

 

a woman loves and respects a man who knows how to make things happen! you keep asking to hold onto her purse strings... stop that!

 

get busy being independent of her.

 

you will both be happier for it.

 

We don't live together. We're as independent as you get. 90% of our interaction is about the kids. Nearly a month ago, she had a change of heart and wanted to try again. I'm using friends, family, this forum and now a therapist to work on things. I don't share a lot with her other than kids stuff.

 

I admit, I didn't try super hard to get a babysitter because I wasn't really sure I wanted to go on the date.

 

I'm trying to figure out if working on myself without dating her is better versus working on myself while dating her. I'll take your vote as working on myself without dating her.

[2sunny]

if you aren't SURE you want to go on the date - then don't go.

 

 

get busy with many other things - and stop checking with her when you don't absolutely have to - this should only need to be if the kids are in the hospital or an accident.

[Steadfast]

Hmm...did I even answer your questions at all in this novel????

 

To be frank...not really. But I do appreciate the time taken to elaborate.

 

The root of my problem (with second guessing) is a metal fight over this question: does she love me and her problems held her back, or is it her lack of love/attraction? Taken at face value, it's the latter. I can't make her talk, or open up. Whatever her problems are she's decided they're worse with me.

 

So be it.

[jstobo]

 

Her cycle: cheated, confessed, defensive cruel, softened, repeat. While I was trying to make sense of it all, she went pillar to post; she didn't want to be married to anyone else, then she didn't want to be married, more meanness, more secretive behavior, quiet and moody around me, laughing and loving life around friends and family. I had no answer.

 

When she complained of my 'insistence' of knowing where, when and why, she threatened to move out and I held the door open. Despite promising me she was trying to work things out in her head she had sex with (at least) two other men (confessed) then finally stated she wasn't attracted to me. When I let her go and filed, she changed into the victim, but remained steadfast in her position. By her own admission she was 'scared' of life without me, but she is very much a user. After my dad died she wanted to come home (I never agreed...in fact, I never had a chance to say anything) but shortly after he was buried she disappeared again. Weeks later, she told me she was in love with a married man and asked if I was ashamed of her. I told her I was out of her league and gave up. Divorced.

 

Around the first of the year she really opened up and extended herself, but I did not respond. No quotes, but she's said she thinks of me night and day, misses me, loves me, and even said once she often imagines we're still married, just to feel better. She has asked me out on dates, but never once said she wanted me. You know, like 'that'.

 

I tried and waited and tried some more. How much is a man supposed to tolerate? How long is he supposed to wait?

 

Sorry to threadjack jstobo. I think you're doing an amazing job of keeping it together.

 

Steadfast - I see some patterns in your post. Your ex W may have been desperate to receive some kind of approval from you. Since she wasn't getting approval, she went the other direction and tried to get shame. Seems strange I know, but she sounds as though she got desperate for a some kind of response and ended up seeking at least a negative one. The other pattern I see, was your ability to show her the door. She may have got to the point where she wanted to see if you had any feelings for her, good or bad, at all.

 

If you've been reading my thread, you'll notice I'm starting to discover why everything has happened. I haven't figured out yet, if I can truly be happy married to my W. But I am at least understanding why my W got to where she was and did what she did. She honestly convinced herself I was no longer in love with her and nothing she could do was going to change that. She felt love from me as a mother, artist and friend, but not as a lover (Wife). After a couple years feeling that way, her vulnerability got the best of her one night and it turned into an Emotional Affair. All of this was due to her feeling unloved by me. She didn't fall out of love with me without convincing herself I fell out of love with her. In many ways she was right. I have had to spend the last 7 months dealing with her fear to fall back in love with me. I honestly believe she loves me and wants to be in love with me. But she is so fearful of going back to the same place she was before. If I had showed my W the door on D Day, I think that would have affirmed her belief I wasn't in love with her and she did the right thing. It doesn't mean she would have been running off into la la land thinking single life is wonderful. I think she would have felt worse actually knowing she was right all along. Well, she was wrong. I love her more than words can say. Sometimes love isn't enough to make two people happy and I'm currently struggling with that.

 

If you're happy with this new woman, than don't look back. But if you have a mental block because you haven't lost feelings for your ex, that is a deep issue.

[heartshaped]

I started with a therapist yesterday and part of me wants to take some time for myself to gain tools to be a happier person.

 

I've been reading your thread for quite some time and while I do agree that you need to work on becoming a happier person, I don't think taking some time to yourself would be beneficial to your marriage. If you were single or just dating this woman, I would say ask for some time and work on yourself, but this is your wife.

 

I think a huge problem in your marriage is both of you have a habit of feeding off of the other person's responses, negatively or positively, whether the person meant what they said or did that way or not. I don't think your wife is being cold or distant towards you at all actually, but I do think that you need more positive affirmation than most people and she is just not in a position right now to give you that. Accept that.

 

Eventually, when things are in a better position, you need to be clear with your wife about your needs and desires and the same goes for her, but right now, the two of you are just trying to lay the framework. Don't worry so much about the intricate details.

 

I know this isn't a pleasant experience and I know you would probably like to give up on her and your marriage, but honestly, marriage is hard work. Relationships are hard work. Things cannot and will not be fixed in just a day or a week or a month. You are on the way to repairing your marriage and yourself, but it's a long often bumpy road.

[ShatteredReality]

I've been reading your thread for quite some time and while I do agree that you need to work on becoming a happier person, I don't think taking some time to yourself would be beneficial to your marriage. If you were single or just dating this woman, I would say ask for some time and work on yourself, but this is your wife.

 

I think a huge problem in your marriage is both of you have a habit of feeding off of the other person's responses, negatively or positively, whether the person meant what they said or did that way or not. I don't think your wife is being cold or distant towards you at all actually, but I do think that you need more positive affirmation than most people and she is just not in a position right now to give you that. Accept that.

 

Eventually, when things are in a better position, you need to be clear with your wife about your needs and desires and the same goes for her, but right now, the two of you are just trying to lay the framework. Don't worry so much about the intricate details.

 

I know this isn't a pleasant experience and I know you would probably like to give up on her and your marriage, but honestly, marriage is hard work. Relationships are hard work. Things cannot and will not be fixed in just a day or a week or a month. You are on the way to repairing your marriage and yourself, but it's a long often bumpy road.

 

Agreed

 

To be frank...not really. But I do appreciate the time taken to elaborate.

 

The root of my problem (with second guessing) is a metal fight over this question: does she love me and her problems held her back, or is it her lack of love/attraction? Taken at face value, it's the latter. I can't make her talk, or open up. Whatever her problems are she's decided they're worse with me.

 

So be it.

 

I read what Jstobo said and he made some good points.

 

I didn't really get what you were asking before...therefore my little rant was way off base!

 

So to get to more that side of things...cause I really had trouble coming back around to my husband too. Emotional and physical attraction are often hand in hand...at least for women. So if there was a huge emotional barrier it would also lead to a physical one.

 

Another thing that can compound that is self doubt and low self image...or insecurities. So even if she begins to see you come around her own issues can plant themselves firmly in her way. Once I started to come around emotionally for my H and things began to become just that much more apparent to me - how badly I'd truly acted and the true spectrum of the awful things I'd done...that's when I began to think it wouldn't work based on my own inabilities.

 

It is entirely possible that even once she woke up to her self destructive behavior and saw it for what it was she never felt quite good enough for you...even if you were still asking for her to come back....Now how long a man tries to help a woman fix this is entirely up to him - if she doesn't show some signs of wanting to work on these things it can be discouraging and entirely possible that it would take her longer to get to a point that's worth his time than he has patience.

 

Did that make a bit more sense??

[Steadfast]

Steadfast - I see some patterns in your post. Your ex W may have been desperate to receive some kind of approval from you. Since she wasn't getting approval, she went the other direction and tried to get shame. Seems strange I know, but she sounds as though she got desperate for a some kind of response and ended up seeking at least a negative one. The other pattern I see, was your ability to show her the door. She may have got to the point where she wanted to see if you had any feelings for her, good or bad, at all. *SNIP* If you're happy with this new woman, than don't look back. But if you have a mental block because you haven't lost feelings for your ex, that is a deep issue.

 

You're right about the patterns; both mine and hers, and that's a really good stab at the issue. Truth is, she wanted or needed to do what she did and tried to express how little I had to do with it. I was a supportive, loving and encouraging husband and I suspect my actions were mistaken for manipulation. That is difficult to deal with as there is some truth to it, but I was aware of it. There has to be some give and take and it was all very one sided. There was no way to win. Something or someone convinced her she was being cheated, that the grass was greener.

 

It's a reach, but I think the part she's struggling with (as a result of what seems to be MLC) is the same thing I'm struggling with: the loss one feels when they've flushed their memories and history down the toilet. This seems to intensify during special events, like our daughter graduating. I'm not torn...I realize the gift I've been given and it's appreciated. Just the same, the sweetness of 17-years has been soured by the very ugly murder of a marriage and family. Not easy to overcome. Is this coming through?

 

It is entirely possible that even once she woke up to her self destructive behavior and saw it for what it was she never felt quite good enough for you...even if you were still asking for her to come back....

 

There has and continues to be a certain amount of 'waking up' going on, but whatever she is feeling is joined by equal parts anger. What she's angry about is unclear. This isn't being resolved and probably won't be unless I develop as a mind reader or gain the intelligence to recognize what may be clear as day. Unlike you and jstobo, whatever was needed on her part she was either unwilling, or unable to give. The result is the same.

[ShatteredReality]

You're right about the patterns; both mine and hers, and that's a really good stab at the issue. Truth is, she wanted or needed to do what she did and tried to express how little I had to do with it. I was a supportive, loving and encouraging husband and I suspect my actions were mistaken for manipulation. That is difficult to deal with as there is some truth to it, but I was aware of it. There has to be some give and take and it was all very one sided. There was no way to win. Something or someone convinced her she was being cheated, that the grass was greener.

 

One of the things my counsellor told me just before I stopped seeing her was that my H manipulated me. I asked her how I was supposed to recognize this and she said it can be difficult...and ultimately never gave me a clear answer how to tell the difference between his support or manipulation. The conclusion that I eventually came so...after I don't even know how much searching...was that most people are manipulative in one way or another....from infancy on. When it comes to the end of it we have to ask ourselves what types of manipulation we're willing to deal with and which ones we aren't. When my H would try to manipulate me into feeling better by saying and doing things...should I get angry with him for that? Or shouldn't I be more focused on making sure I don't allow him to manipulate me in ways that are more negative or detrimental to my healing and progressing in life?

 

In the beginning there was very little give from me. I was done. I have watched other women be "done" like I was...but they take much larger steps to ensure they never return to where they once were. Sometimes...there truly is nothing left to give. At that point all you can do is try to pick up the pieces...in my case, I was lucky - I know how lucky I was - I had nothing left to give and all these shattered pieces around me...a decade of my life I laid to waste in less than 6 months...I had no idea how to progress forward but I knew I didn't want to take even one step back...I think most other men would have seen me for the garbage I saw myself to be and walked away. His patience was entirely uncharacteristic...I haven't seen it to the same degree since - though he's worlds better than he was - and all I can think is...if even the little things had been different, my story would have a different ending.

 

It's a reach, but I think the part she's struggling with (as a result of what seems to be MLC) is the same thing I'm struggling with: the loss one feels when they've flushed their memories and history down the toilet. This seems to intensify during special events, like our daughter graduating. I'm not torn...I realize the gift I've been given and it's appreciated. Just the same, the sweetness of 17-years has been soured by the very ugly murder of a marriage and family. Not easy to overcome. Is this coming through?

 

What is MLC?

 

My marriage is not what it was. I have the benefit of sharing old stories with him - our history together and all that goes with it (we've now known eachother 13 years as of last month)....but there was a period of mourning. I came in with a butchers knife to the old marriage and went completely Norman Bates on the old marriage. In many ways this new marriage is better - we have better communication and are more open with one another...I fear expressing things to him less and he knows better than to assume I can read his mind and just give him what he needs...we're a work in progress but it's coming along. However, the flip side that doesn't always get spoken about on boards like these is the mourning of the old parts of the relationship. The parts where we both had that naive trust in eachother that it would never happen to us. The parts where we took eachothers love for granted in a carefree way - that it would always be there and nothing could take it away. We know better now. We know now how fragile those things are - at least I do. With that knowledge comes a certain amount of anxiety and pressure that...while it stays where it belongs firmly planted in the recesses of ones mind...it's there and I doubt it will ever go away at this point. The truly horrible thing is...I believe even if our M hadn't survived...it would still be there...and thus the next person I was with would get a far more guarded and cautious me than my H has gotten to see. Does that make sense? So...the mourning of something that's passed in such a fashion can be intense and painful...and leave sensitive scars behind forever. Noone can begrudge you the right to feel that pain.

 

There has and continues to be a certain amount of 'waking up' going on, but whatever she is feeling is joined by equal parts anger. What she's angry about is unclear. This isn't being resolved and probably won't be unless I develop as a mind reader or gain the intelligence to recognize what may be clear as day. Unlike you and jstobo, whatever was needed on her part she was either unwilling, or unable to give. The result is the same.

 

Sometimes the only way to cope when we do something so destructive is with anger. I don't do well at playing the victim, but I have many family members who survive their whole existence as victims. I have observed that they seem to believe their anger is completely justified in almost all cases and seems to console them when it comes to their mistakes.

 

I was very angry with my H for a long time...how dare he treat me as he had and take all that I gave to him and just crumple it up like a bad drawing?? How dare he behave in such a fashion and then have the gall to get this upset with me when I lash out right back....how on Earth could he justify his actions now when it was clearly My Turn to be the one hurting?? But obviously I snapped out of all of that rather quickly. I saw that I was allowing myself to play victim and all that does is put one in a vicious circle where they eventually cannot even trust their own logic because they've mudded it up with sooooooo many excuses that it's no longer readily discernable.....there becomes too much to admit to get to the root of the matter that it seems like an insurmountable task so typically the person in that situation just puts it down, walks away, and moves on...never actually handling that particular situation....

[jstobo]

 

It's a reach, but I think the part she's struggling with (as a result of what seems to be MLC) is the same thing I'm struggling with: the loss one feels when they've flushed their memories and history down the toilet. This seems to intensify during special events, like our daughter graduating. I'm not torn...I realize the gift I've been given and it's appreciated. Just the same, the sweetness of 17-years has been soured by the very ugly murder of a marriage and family. Not easy to overcome. Is this coming through?

 

 

There has and continues to be a certain amount of 'waking up' going on, but whatever she is feeling is joined by equal parts anger. What she's angry about is unclear. This isn't being resolved and probably won't be unless I develop as a mind reader or gain the intelligence to recognize what may be clear as day. Unlike you and jstobo, whatever was needed on her part she was either unwilling, or unable to give. The result is the same.

 

Yes Steadfast, it is coming through. There is a love that takes so long to go away when you spend that much time together. I had a six year relationship before I met my W. It took nearly 3 years to finally not be affected by that love. When I met my W, I was completely ready for a new love and my previous relationship wasn't going to stop it. I keep thinking I can move on when my W is being unkind, but she does something nice and I'm right back with her. I actually relate very well to your last statement. My W doesn't communicate with me. I have no idea what she needs. I've been trying to figure it out over the last 7 months. What I know now is completely different than what I thought 7 months ago. It's only because I'm piecing it all together. She doesn't know what I need either, because of the wall she has up. She isn't interested in my needs right now. Now that I'm figuring things out, I think in time, my needs will start to be met. Although, I still haven't decided if being married to my W is what I ultimately want. Time will tell.

 

You have an unfinished story that I'm afraid will eat at you forever unless you finish writing it.

[ShatteredReality]

If you've been reading my thread, you'll notice I'm starting to discover why everything has happened. I haven't figured out yet, if I can truly be happy married to my W. But I am at least understanding why my W got to where she was and did what she did. She honestly convinced herself I was no longer in love with her and nothing she could do was going to change that. She felt love from me as a mother, artist and friend, but not as a lover (Wife). After a couple years feeling that way, her vulnerability got the best of her one night and it turned into an Emotional Affair. All of this was due to her feeling unloved by me. She didn't fall out of love with me without convincing herself I fell out of love with her. In many ways she was right. I have had to spend the last 7 months dealing with her fear to fall back in love with me. I honestly believe she loves me and wants to be in love with me. But she is so fearful of going back to the same place she was before. If I had showed my W the door on D Day, I think that would have affirmed her belief I wasn't in love with her and she did the right thing. It doesn't mean she would have been running off into la la land thinking single life is wonderful. I think she would have felt worse actually knowing she was right all along. Well, she was wrong. I love her more than words can say. Sometimes love isn't enough to make two people happy and I'm currently struggling with that.

 

I like this summation of your situation Jstobo. I don't know if you see how clearly you seem to grasp what you've been going through. Usually things are so foggy during these times that we don't fully understand what's going on...

 

I didn't believe my H loved me. In fact...I thought he had grown to hate me...he did everything in his power to prove otherwise and now the doorways of communication need to always be kept open...that's never easy. Love is only enough in Disney fairy tales and romantic comedies...I really do believe your wife is coming around...

 

She may have taken too long, though...I know your self esteem has taken quite the battering in all of this...but you should try to see it another way. She loved you so completely that even when she was miserable she stayed with you and tried to make you happy. She knows that once she admits to herself she's that much in love with you again she will repeat the cycle. That's where her fear enters...if you are just doing all of this in some sick way to control her and get her back then you will certainly reap all the benefits of having her back and having her work to keep you happy and how many years will it take for her to realize the cycle has repeated itself and ultimately neither of you are happy anymore?

 

When I tried to leave my true wants were fairly simple. I wanted my kids to have a safe loving environment to grow up in, if that meant two homes it was better than one home filled with strife and anger. Another want was that my H and I would both heal from all this pain we had inflicted on one another and grow to be happy people in general. And this may sound weird, but I wanted him to find a woman who could take care of him and make him happy in ways I had obviously failed for the previous 8-10 years. So yes, I wanted out of our cycle of abuse...but more than anything I just wanted us to both find a way to be happy...even though my plan didn't include any other men for me in the forseeable future (I know it would have happened but how long would it take...)

 

I am sorry if I refer to my own situation too much...it's just that it's one of the few I know of personally that seems to be having a happy ending thus far. Most of the time the women who I know irl who made these similar choices never even considered reconciling. There is one story...a family member...she left and they lived apart for 2 years. They were in this limbo stage...even dated other people...but didn't divorce...Well eventually they got back together and now they're still married...I don't know how happy they are or not though. It's one of those things were we see eachother at family functions and it seems we women do our thing while the men do their thing...so I really don't watch them interact all that much. I haven't ever really gotten to sit down with her alone and chat either. When my H and I went through everything we went through my parents knew everything and one of my sisters did, but for the most part it was a need to know basis. His parents knew we were having problems...but no one was aware that we were on the brink of a divorce...even telling them later that the problems were serious enough we got a lot of gasps and shocked looks to see if we were truly holding hands and acting like a couple or something...I don't know. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks about your situation, ultimately, because you're the one who has to live it. So we never cared.

 

I think you venting here has been of great help...and hopefully so have all the responses!!