Multiple D-Days = Less Guilt?

[TigerCub]

Hey,

 

I've been wondering something as I read more and more stories on here.

 

There are a bunch of stories about As where there have been multiple D-Days.

 

I wonder if in those situations the guilt of carrying on in the affair becomes less and less with each D-Day.

 

If it were me, and I was happy being a person on the side (not meant as a judgment to those happy in their As) - I actually think that I would feel less guilty because the BS knows about the As and they keep the person who betrays them and cheats on them - and pretty much, they know the risks but still choose to hang on.

 

On the other hand, I think I would maybe feel worse in the sense of 'Gee, this poor person has been through enough - maybe its time to stop doing this to them over and over'

 

I honestly don't know how I would really feel about it.

But sometimes when I read about the cases with multiple D-Days, I kinda feel 'well, they know what they're in for, they're not standing up for themselves, they're putting up with this crap - so why not?!"

 

A term that's thrown around often on here is "you teach people how to treat you" so doesn't that apply to BSs who constantly take back their WSs after multiple Ddays?

 

I know its certainly used for OW/OM who accept being the person on the side - shouldn't it go both ways?

 

** This post is really not meant to stir up the sh**, I'm really just curious on how others view it.

 

I've never had a Dday, and I never felt happy with just being on the side - (when I was seeing only what I wanted to see in xMM) - I wanted it all.

 

I felt bad that she was in the dark about his many many affairs, but I dunno how I would have felt towards her if she knew of them and kept him - maybe I would have felt more ok with doing what I did with him.

 

Any thoughts?

[silktricks]

REALLY interesting question!!

 

It's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea of a BS having multiple D-Days and still being in the marriage as that is SO not me, but... since it is a really interesting question, I'm going to give my opinion (I'm never at a loss for one of those!!! )

 

From the standpoint of the WS first: I think the WS would be of the opinion that the BS was going to continue to forgive them so why shouldn't they continue the affair. I'm not too sure about the guilt-free part, but the lack of consequences part would IMO be enabling the ahem side-activity.

 

From the standpoint of the OP: I'm not too sure why they would care about the number of D-Days unless the drama got too over the top. I'm of the opinion (which could of course be completely wrong for many) that the only real way to have an affair is to simply not think about the BS. I can understand what you are saying about the idea that it could be seen in some way as the BS almost giving permission by staying in spite of the fact that the affair has been discovered, and re-discovered and re-discovered yet again.

 

From the standpoint of the BS: For some reason this person either thinks the WS will change if given enough chances ( pretty foolish IMO), or they think the marriage holds enough that satisfies them to stay despite the repeated infidelity, or they view leaving as "losing" since they are still married to the WS, or some other reason that I can't imagine...

[TigerCub]

REALLY interesting question!!

 

It's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea of a BS having multiple D-Days and still being in the marriage as that is SO not me, but... since it is a really interesting question, I'm going to give my opinion (I'm never at a loss for one of those!!! )

 

From the standpoint of the WS first: I think the WS would be of the opinion that the BS was going to continue to forgive them so why shouldn't they continue the affair. I'm not too sure about the guilt-free part, but the lack of consequences part would IMO be enabling the ahem side-activity.

Agree! If nothing major happens upon the discovery and there are no consequences or accountability - why stop what feels good to them?

 

From the standpoint of the OP: I'm not too sure why they would care about the number of D-Days unless the drama got too over the top. I'm of the opinion (which could of course be completely wrong for many) that the only real way to have an affair is to simply not think about the BS. I can understand what you are saying about the idea that it could be seen in some way as the BS almost giving permission by staying in spite of the fact that the affair has been discovered, and re-discovered and re-discovered yet again.

In my A, xMM's long time gf was an abstract to me.

I didn't know her, I didn't know what she looked like, I didn't know much about her - except the little that he told me.

I still felt guilty for my part in it.

But I do think that if there was a DDay, it would have made her more real, and it would have made the consequences of my actions (in the hurt/betrayal she may have felt) a lot more real. I think DDay would have certainly taken her from a 'concept' to a real person that I really hurt.

 

 

From the standpoint of the BS: For some reason this person either thinks the WS will change if given enough chances ( pretty foolish IMO), or they think the marriage holds enough that satisfies them to stay despite the repeated infidelity, or they view leaving as "losing" since they are still married to the WS, or some other reason that I can't imagine...

I honestly can't understand why a person would take back a cheater (if it wasn't a 1 time thing that they truly showed remorse for and ended and tried to fix things after), the repeated infidelity and multiple d-days - I just don't understand and I think that's really why I can't decide on whether to feel bad for them, or to just be like 'well, you know what you're holding onto'

 

I dunno..

 

Thanks for the response

[Summer Breeze]

Oh sister do you have a few hours.

 

I was a BS who left the M within hours of finding out about xHs A. 20 years later I fell in love with xMM and we 5, yes 5, ddays. We probably would have had 30 or more by now but I ended the A when I was unhappier more days than I was happy.

 

His guilt. I don't know about his guilt. I think he felt loads and loads of it but he obviously was happy to put it aside for whatever reason. My guilt. None. I never felt guilty during or after the A. I know my opinion isn't popular but I didn't cheat on anyone. I would have been happy to tell her but he didn't want me to. I made it clear I wouldn't participate in any subterfuge or be part of excuses or plans to fool her. If he wanted to lie and manipulate that was his choice. He knew from the first that I thought he was stupid and that if we were ever caught I would not lie to her about anything.

 

So as far as the guilt on my part it didn't change. I think he didn't feel any more or less guilt as it went on but I do think he knows full well he could have gotten away with it forever. As far as why someone would allow multiple ddays I can't figure it out. I would assume that the reasons he was staying were the same things that didn't let her leave. I think they had misguided senses of loyalty and duty and responsibility but those were things they chose. I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be. I hope they're making the best of it but with him still trying to contact me I don't think that's the case.

 

Know what? As much as I love him, it ain't my worry.

[desertIslandCactus]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thing .. just mostly the title.

 

Multiple D-Days .. I don't think NC can be effective until the OM/OW can unemotionally carry it out.. which can be a good reason for prolonging the final D-Day.

[2sure]

I'm inclined to say yeah, sure - after several D-Days a BS staying is pretty much a flag saying: I know and am in denial or I dont really care.

 

But having been a BS who lived through several D-Days before leaving -

 

I'm no dummy. I married him when I was 40. I had plenty of experience behind me . I'm a fairly competent and confident woman.

 

You cannot believe until it has been done to you the huge amount of groveling, fabrication, and pressure a WS can put on a BS to believe them. Originally when I left, I kicked myself so many times for being sooo stupid. But now in hindsight, I see that his betrayal was ...astonishing. Real Talent.

 

I didnt leave him because he cheated on me. The betrayal itself was not ultimately the driving force behind my leaving...it was the fact that he had this talent, this capability of being so sincere, so believable, and so selfish.

 

So, a BS after multiple d-days...who can say.

As OW, you are only on the outside looking in.

[Snowflower]

I think they had misguided senses of loyalty and duty and responsibility but those were things they chose. I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be. I hope they're making the best of it but with him still trying to contact me I don't think that's the case.

 

Perhaps Spark, Seren or Phoenix will chime in but from what I remember from their posts on LS, not one of them endured multiple D-days. I guess I don't understand what you mean?

[TigerCub]

Oh sister do you have a few hours.

 

I was a BS who left the M within hours of finding out about xHs A. 20 years later I fell in love with xMM and we 5, yes 5, ddays. We probably would have had 30 or more by now but I ended the A when I was unhappier more days than I was happy.

Hey SB,

 

I always find it really interesting when I hear about BSs that one day become the OM/OW. I'm not judging it, I just find it a bit odd, considering the pain that they themselves at one time felt due to infidelity.

 

So....back to the issue

5 DDays?!! that's insane - I so can't imagine why his W would keep him - but yeah as you said that's their issue and their business...

 

His guilt. I don't know about his guilt. I think he felt loads and loads of it but he obviously was happy to put it aside for whatever reason.

 

my xMM didn't feel guilt, I was the one that felt it more - I'm not saying that makes me better than him, but this was my only A - he had slept with a lot of women behind her back - so I guess with that much practice - the guilt vanishes, or he, at least deals with it better.

 

 

So as far as the guilt on my part it didn't change. I think he didn't feel any more or less guilt as it went on but I do think he knows full well he could have gotten away with it forever. As far as why someone would allow multiple ddays I can't figure it out. I would assume that the reasons he was staying were the same things that didn't let her leave. I think they had misguided senses of loyalty and duty and responsibility but those were things they chose. I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be. I hope they're making the best of it but with him still trying to contact me I don't think that's the case.

 

Know what? As much as I love him, it ain't my worry.

I think the part in bold was the main reason for asking my question - yeah if after so many DDays and nothing changes, and the WS figures they could get away with it - I would kinda imagine that the guilt (as far as the WS is concerned) might be a little less, because the lack of action against the A almost implies that its ok with the BS.

 

Thanks for your input SB

[blissfullyoblivious]

Multiple DDays could be a sign that one or both spouses believe that they are too old to start over again.

 

Divorce is a new begining which is terrifying for some especially at mid life.

 

A BS that felt that the marriage was more convenient than divorce would not need much encouragement to forgive and forget. It amazes me that all the WS has to do is behave as s/he should have done all along and s/he is deemed remorseful.

 

If the WS treats the BS as he treated the OP (that he loved/or thought he loved) then the marriage is better than before the affair!

 

An affair is not such a gamble if you know your spouse/SO.

[TigerCub]

I'm inclined to say yeah, sure - after several D-Days a BS staying is pretty much a flag saying: I know and am in denial or I dont really care.

That's kind of how it comes off to me when I read about those situations.

 

But having been a BS who lived through several D-Days before leaving -

 

I'm no dummy. I married him when I was 40. I had plenty of experience behind me . I'm a fairly competent and confident woman.

 

You cannot believe until it has been done to you the huge amount of groveling, fabrication, and pressure a WS can put on a BS to believe them. Originally when I left, I kicked myself so many times for being sooo stupid. But now in hindsight, I see that his betrayal was ...astonishing. Real Talent.

 

I didnt leave him because he cheated on me. The betrayal itself was not ultimately the driving force behind my leaving...it was the fact that he had this talent, this capability of being so sincere, so believable, and so selfish.

Yeah its scary when people have that "talent"

xMM certainly did - I find it creepy - can't trust a thing they say!

 

 

So, a BS after multiple d-days...who can say.

As OW, you are only on the outside looking in.

Very true.

I've never been the BS and as an xOW I never experienced a Dday or anything like that - I'll never know (hopefully) what it really is like on that side of the fence.

 

Thanks 2Sure

 

btw - you got rid of that awesome signature - I luved it, it always made me laugh.

[blissfullyoblivious]

Multiple DDays could be a sign that one or both spouses believe that they are too old to start over again.

 

Divorce is a new begining which is terrifying for some especially at mid life.

 

A BS that felt that the marriage was more convenient than divorce would not need much encouragement to forgive and forget. It amazes me that all the WS has to do is behave as s/he should have done all along and s/he is deemed remorseful.

 

If the WS treats the BS as he treated the OP (that he loved/or thought he loved) then the marriage is better than before the affair!

 

An affair is not such a gamble if you know your spouse/SO.

[blissfullyoblivious]

Phone playing up sorry for double post.

[Summer Breeze]

Hey SB,

 

I always find it really interesting when I hear about BSs that one day become the OM/OW. I'm not judging it, I just find it a bit odd, considering the pain that they themselves at one time felt due to infidelity.

I never expected to be either one. I felt pain because of what my xH did to me not her. He could have had a ONS and it would have been as bad. The OW wasn't significant in the betrayal. He hurt me she didn't. XMM hurt his W I didn't. I won't say any more on this but if you want to PM me you're welocme to. I know my position is pretty unpopular but it is what it is.

 

 

So....back to the issue

5 DDays?!! that's insane - I so can't imagine why his W would keep him - but yeah as you said that's their issue and their business...

 

 

 

my xMM didn't feel guilt, I was the one that felt it more - I'm not saying that makes me better than him, but this was my only A - he had slept with a lot of women behind her back - so I guess with that much practice - the guilt vanishes, or he, at least deals with it better.

 

 

 

I think the part in bold was the main reason for asking my question - yeah if after so many DDays and nothing changes, and the WS figures they could get away with it - I would kinda imagine that the guilt (as far as the WS is concerned) might be a little less, because the lack of action against the A almost implies that its ok with the BS.

 

Thanks for your input SB

 

I do have to admit that after the second one I was shocked she didn't at least pretend to get serious and kick him out or leave him or something. Everyones different though.

 

I have a response above in bold as well.

[TigerCub]

I do have to admit that after the second one I was shocked she didn't at least pretend to get serious and kick him out or leave him or something. Everyones different though.

 

I have a response above in bold as well.

 

true people have different needs and circumstances and put up with things other can't - but it def is kinda hard to see how nothing at all happens with each D-Day.

 

Thanks for the explanation in bold, I understand what you're saying. Your view (as unpopular as you think it is), is actually kinda common - Only you know what you felt and although I've never been in a sit like yours, I would imagine that if I were, the hurt/betrayal would be caused by my SO - its all on them (they would be the ones that owed me anything, they would be the ones that promised me stuff and in turn lied to me) - I totally get what you're saying.

 

Thanks for the explanation

[silktricks]

I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be.

 

Huh???? I don't believe any of these (or I) had multiple D-Days. A choice to forgive ONE D-Day and work to recover the marriage is not (at least in my opinion ) at all the same as choosing to overlook multiple D-Days. (And I use the word overlook purposely, as I don't believe that you could actually forgive that, nor recover that marriage.)

[Summer Breeze]

Huh???? I don't believe any of these (or I) had multiple D-Days. A choice to forgive ONE D-Day and work to recover the marriage is not (at least in my opinion ) at all the same as choosing to overlook multiple D-Days. (And I use the word overlook purposely, as I don't believe that you could actually forgive that, nor recover that marriage.)

 

Sorry I think I made a mess of that. What I meant was that I read stories of couples who have reconciled and I hope that xMM and his W managed somehow to find some peace as well. I wasn't implying that anyone else mentioned had more than 1 dday. Sorry for the confusion.

[PhoenixRise]

.

 

I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be. I hope they're making the best of it but with him still trying to contact me I don't think that's the case.

 

 

 

Perhaps Spark, Seren or Phoenix will chime in but from what I remember from their posts on LS, not one of them endured multiple D-days. I guess I don't understand what you mean?

 

 

Huh???? I don't believe any of these (or I) had multiple D-Days. A choice to forgive ONE D-Day and work to recover the marriage is not (at least in my opinion ) at all the same as choosing to overlook multiple D-Days. (And I use the word overlook purposely, as I don't believe that you could actually forgive that, nor recover that marriage.)

 

 

Based on some recent comments Summer Breeze made on the Infidelity board I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt here. I think her thoughts got a little tangled and she was not clear in her comment quoted above.

I think the "they " she is referring to when she talks about someone possibly plodding along is her former MM and his wife.

 

Perhaps Summer will clarify.

 

But just for the record. No way in hell I would have endured multiple ddays. I packed up and moved away over the one dday we had.

[PhoenixRise]

Sorry I think I made a mess of that. What I meant was that I read stories of couples who have reconciled and I hope that xMM and his W managed somehow to find some peace as well. I wasn't implying that anyone else mentioned had more than 1 dday. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I thought this is what you intended to say. Thanks for clarifying your point.

[Snowflower]

Sorry I think I made a mess of that. What I meant was that I read stories of couples who have reconciled and I hope that xMM and his W managed somehow to find some peace as well. I wasn't implying that anyone else mentioned had more than 1 dday. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Got it! Thanks!

 

How did you know that their were multiple d-days for your xMM and his BW? I dunno, sometimes these MM/WS can be quite convincing as 2sure so eloquently stated in her post on the last page. Maybe he has her convinced that any contact with you (between the multiple d-days) was accidental.

 

I just don't see how many BSs would stand for multiple d-days, at least not long-term. It doesn't make sense to me either and I was a fBS!

[Summer Breeze]

I thought this is what you intended to say. Thanks for clarifying your point.

 

No problem! I didn't realize I'd made that sound so muddled, but I'm really glad I'm still around to sort it out.

[Summer Breeze]

Got it! Thanks!

 

How did you know that their were multiple d-days for your xMM and his BW? I dunno, sometimes these MM/WS can be quite convincing as 2sure so eloquently stated in her post on the last page. Maybe he has her convinced that any contact with you (between the multiple d-days) was accidental.

 

I just don't see how many BSs would stand for multiple d-days, at least not long-term. It doesn't make sense to me either and I was a fBS!

 

Believe me it happened; she discovered his email account with 6 months worth of emails between us, saw a charge for a weekend away, she bluffed him with a phantom email I'd sent, I was in a moment of physical distress and xMM was on the phone with a friend of mine and she walked into the room and he carried on the call while she was there, we were out one night and some of his friends joined us and I'm 99 percent sure one of them said something to her. On all of them she called, emailed or texted me. Sometimes she did all 3 and it went on for a few days. Each time he'd tell me we were done and he was going to try and work on the M. I always walked away and let them to it. The longest time he maintainted NC was about 4 weeks but normally it was close to 3. I was right in the middle of the actual ddays until she had her questions answered and then I'd trundle off and carry on with my life. It went on for 3 and a half years and if I hadn't decided to move on I imagine it would still be happening.

 

I agree with you about 2sures description because my xH came pretty close to pulling me in that way. In the end I couldn't do it.

[silktricks]

Sorry I think I made a mess of that. What I meant was that I read stories of couples who have reconciled and I hope that xMM and his W managed somehow to find some peace as well. I wasn't implying that anyone else mentioned had more than 1 dday. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Thanks for the clarification

[Snowflower]

Believe me it happened; she discovered his email account with 6 months worth of emails between us, saw a charge for a weekend away, she bluffed him with a phantom email I'd sent, I was in a moment of physical distress and xMM was on the phone with a friend of mine and she walked into the room and he carried on the call while she was there, we were out one night and some of his friends joined us and I'm 99 percent sure one of them said something to her. On all of them she called, emailed or texted me. Sometimes she did all 3 and it went on for a few days. Each time he'd tell me we were done and he was going to try and work on the M. I always walked away and let them to it. The longest time he maintainted NC was about 4 weeks but normally it was close to 3. I was right in the middle of the actual ddays until she had her questions answered and then I'd trundle off and carry on with my life. It went on for 3 and a half years and if I hadn't decided to move on I imagine it would still be happening.

 

I agree with you about 2sures description because my xH came pretty close to pulling me in that way. In the end I couldn't do it.

 

Summer, thanks for explaining. Wow, that is a mess. I don't know why some BS's choose to stay in that situation. Even as a fBW myself, I can't really understand it. It was just so not my situation. I can see a BS staying until she had a job, or had completed some job training or if it was her child's senior year in high school or something like that but otherwise...

 

In any event, it's good you cut the cord for your own sake. It was an unhealthy dynamic and one that the MM/WS often perpetuates. Cruel, really, to both women.

[Quiet Storm]

For some people, marriage is not so much about passion and sex, but about acceptance and sharing a life together.

 

Some wives love their H's for comfort, security, history. They accept that he may want other women sexually, and this fact does not bother them because they no longer have that need.

 

If their H is still meeting the needs that are important to them, why divorce?

 

Some wives end up not being sexually attracted to their husband's anymore. If he has focused his sexual attention elsewhere, he is more likely to stop bugging her for sex. Some women with low sex drives are relieved when he goes elsewhere because someone else has taken that duty off of her plate.

 

This kind of marriage is not ideal, but is common. It usually goes like this... Husband gets lots of sex early in marriage... wife has kids, doesn't want as much sex... man tries everything to get wife to want sex... wife unenthusiastically obliges...man is tired of being rejected and getting duty sex...man looks outside marriage for sex.

 

MM may be going outside the marriage for sex, but if BW doesn't care about this aspect of the marriage, she is not going to turn her life upside down over it.

 

It will only devastate her if he wants to leave the marriage. Because then HER needs are in jeopardy.

 

OW is not there because MM wants a new wife. OW is there to meet needs that the wife is no longer interested in meeting.

[PhoenixRise]

I don't know if multiple ddays = less guilt

I do know that multiple ddays = less respect.