Multiple D-Days = Less Guilt?

[Lucius]

Sorry, kids. I really didn't feel as if I was coming off as judgmental. I was merely pointing out that Susie (interesting name- wonder if she knows it was the name of a fictional prostitute?) had already stated. She said she went from being in one bad R and then went to another potentially bad one. I thought I was pointing out the obvious. Sorry, there was no intend to offend.

 

My apologies, Susie, welcome to LS.

 

 

 

So you mention her name is that of a prostitute in the same paragraph in which you say there was no intention to offend. I'm thinking you might be a poor choice for a corporate party dinner date. But of course you make up for it by offering apologies with your sincere LS welcome.

[Tayla]

So you mention her name is that of a prostitute in the same paragraph in which you say there was no intention to offend. I'm thinking you might be a poor choice for a corporate party dinner date. But of course you make up for it by offering apologies with your sincere LS welcome.

and you are prejudging that being a Prostitute is a negative profession or looked down upon( otherwise why would you assume that an offense was made by such a commentary). Ahh see there are some folks that are open minded about such a profession and have neither a positive or negative opinion about it,but rather accept it. Itook jthornes comment that they read alot and its a characters name. Its that simple

 

ANd yes I think jthorne was being sincere in the apology.

[jthorne]

So you mention her name is that of a prostitute in the same paragraph in which you say there was no intention to offend. I'm thinking you might be a poor choice for a corporate party dinner date. But of course you make up for it by offering apologies with your sincere LS welcome.

I didn't choose her name, did you? Most people choose their name for a reason, do they not? Perhaps we could start another thread, and you could share why you chose yours. And why it's so important that you chose to jack someone else's thread.

 

Apologies, OP.

I will bow out now so that the ACTUAL TOPIC can be discussed.

Edited February 12, 2011 by jthorne

[OWoman]

I felt bad that she was in the dark about his many many affairs, but I dunno how I would have felt towards her if she knew of them and kept him - maybe I would have felt more ok with doing what I did with him.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I've not myself had any experience of a DDay, but from those I've observed IRL, it does seem as if guilt, respect and regard diminish with repeated DDays. I know couples who've stayed together (for children, business or other reasons) where one or both parties were having their emotional and physical needs met outside of the M, and DDays came and went like a bus passing bus stops. In most cases, the APs became so blase about the A that the DDays increased in frequency - they really could no longer care if they were bust, because they knew there would be no consequences.

[Lucius]

Well lets hope she was not referring to the Digimon character then.

 

Halloween:

 

"Hey you look just like a prostitute!"

 

"Oh thats not a costume?"

 

"Well its not like there was anything WRONG with looking like a prostitute you know."

 

[bentnotbroken]

The same could be said of the wife.

 

 

And the cheating donkey.

[SuzieWong]

Well lets hope she was not referring to the Digimon character then.

 

Halloween:

 

"Hey you look just like a prostitute!"

 

"Oh thats not a costume?"

 

"Well its not like there was anything WRONG with looking like a prostitute you know."

 

 

Thank you Lucius. You know Digimon? My children liked that show very much when they were young. You will know that Wong is a common name in my country and Suzie Wong is first a simple happy child with older brothers. I also have older brothers. Suzie does not understand the ways of the world. She grows as the series continues. I too had a simple happy outlook about men and marriage. I too learned to the ways of the world.

 

As for Miss Thorne's questions. I am not a prostitute. I wonder why this woman needs to make insulting remarks about my last husband and my lover the minute I post on here? This was not the point of the thread.

 

And then she says I have a prostitute's name? I asked my friend. My friend told me before I was born there was an American movie with a character named Suzie Wong. He said it had a racial sterotype that is unflattering to Chinese women. I hope the rest of the posters will not be so racist. I have MBA from one of the top universities in the world. I am no man's whore. No Miss Thorne would not be welcome at any corporate dinners. She does not have proper manners.

 

I apologise to the person who started this thread that my name and my culture have caused so much trouble for you. I hope you get your answers. It is hard to have discussion here with so many rude posters.

[2themoon&back]

Hey,

 

I've been wondering something as I read more and more stories on here.

 

There are a bunch of stories about As where there have been multiple D-Days.

 

I wonder if in those situations the guilt of carrying on in the affair becomes less and less with each D-Day.

 

If it were me, and I was happy being a person on the side (not meant as a judgment to those happy in their As) - I actually think that I would feel less guilty because the BS knows about the As and they keep the person who betrays them and cheats on them - and pretty much, they know the risks but still choose to hang on.

 

On the other hand, I think I would maybe feel worse in the sense of 'Gee, this poor person has been through enough - maybe its time to stop doing this to them over and over'

 

I honestly don't know how I would really feel about it.

But sometimes when I read about the cases with multiple D-Days, I kinda feel 'well, they know what they're in for, they're not standing up for themselves, they're putting up with this crap - so why not?!"

 

A term that's thrown around often on here is "you teach people how to treat you" so doesn't that apply to BSs who constantly take back their WSs after multiple Ddays?

 

I know its certainly used for OW/OM who accept being the person on the side - shouldn't it go both ways?

 

** This post is really not meant to stir up the sh**, I'm really just curious on how others view it.

 

I've never had a Dday, and I never felt happy with just being on the side - (when I was seeing only what I wanted to see in xMM) - I wanted it all.

 

I felt bad that she was in the dark about his many many affairs, but I dunno how I would have felt towards her if she knew of them and kept him - maybe I would have felt more ok with doing what I did with him.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Hi TigerCub.... I always enjoy your post.

 

I have tons of knowledge here on this subject, maybe I should not be so arrogant to say knowledge but RL experience.

 

I don’t feel on my A game today but I will give you some of my thoughts on this topic all the same.

 

My history as you may remember… I had 4 official DDays, and one half a$$ DDay, somewhere in the middle of the other ones.

 

On the 2nd DDay, I felt that the BS became an “active” part of the A triangle, no longer a victim, she was now a participant and this facilitated me to not feel very guilty after that. I felt that BS really did not care about WS or herself, so it helped me be ok with my part in it, because I did and still do love xMM very much and I did care what happened to him and again still do.

 

The BS, made a lot of threats to WS on the 1st DDay, which she did not follow through on, IMO, did not help her, M or the situation and left the door open to the other DDays. She never followed through on any of the threats on any of the DDays. So I am sure xMM, will eventually do this again, IMO, because he is unhappy in the M. He would still be with me if I did not stop the A, in a way that he cannot continue with me.

 

I also think multiple DDays with one AP and one WS and one BS is different that multiple DDays with several AP’s. Both are painful and they have some similarities but I do not think they are not the same.

 

The multiple DDays I experienced where very hard and confusing for me and very painful.

 

As for me I share a lot of the same views and attitude that Summer Breeze has from what I have read on her post.

[2themoon&back]

My perception and Summer Breeze’s are so similar that it I thought I may have been posting under another name in my sleep or something.

 

The reason I say this is maybe the similarities are there because of the multiple DDays.

 

So it must have a strong bearing on the amount of guilt one may feel after multiple DDays.

[pureinheart]

You are correct Miss Torne. My lover is not a better man than my husband. I think you assume that my husband was not a good man or that I think he was a bad man. Do you know either of these men? I do not think so and I do not think you have reason to make this judgement.

 

Seeing other things you post I can see that you have a bad view of affairs. I had that view too until I looked deep inside myself and took a tough look at my marriage. There were signs. I was not open to seeing them. I read another post on here saying life is not all black and white. I agree with that. Everyone wants marriage to be simple but it is not always so.

 

You think cheaters have no character. I think that life is more complex. I judge each person separately and give each person a chance. I do not prejudge because someone has cheated. That is not enough to make them a bad person. I was married for 15 years and I had 2 children with my husband. He is a good father. I would like my children to live in a world as simple as yours Miss Thorne where everyone is happy all of the time and relationships are not complicated and you can know the character of two men who you have never met.

 

Hi Suzie,

 

(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) wow....welcome to LS, I guess...we have all "cheated" in one form or another, some more than others...so I guess everyone in this world is a cheater, so you are in good company:).

[OWoman]

Gosh, this post sounds familiar... There was this one chick who was so freaking jealous that I married a good man of character, one that had never cheated before and found it disgusting. I wonder what happened to her, I hope she's doing ok.

 

Gosh! I don't think I've heard anyone but teenage boys speak thus about women! "This one chick" sounds disparaging to say the least! It sounds to me as if the jealousy runs the other way - why else the need to put someone down quite so dismissively?

 

I reference to your post: YES! There are quite a few times I've been compelled to refer to my H as "OHGODOHGODOHGODOOOOOOH! Jesus!"

If ya know what I mean...

 

sounds like he missed the toilet bowl AGAIN....! Perhaps you ought to get him a nightlight for his nocturnal trips to the toilet, then you wouldn't have quite so many queasy discoveries the morning after he got rat-faced again?

[bentnotbroken]

Hi Suzie,

 

(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) wow....welcome to LS, I guess...we have all "cheated" in one form or another, some more than others...so I guess everyone in this world is a cheater, so you are in good company:).

 

 

No we haven't all cheated in one form or another. Yes we have all sinned, but to equate most lives with yours is not only wishful thinking but possible a lazy way of living life.

[2themoon&back]

Gosh, this post sounds familiar... There was this one chick who was so freaking jealous that I married a good man of character, one that had never cheated before and found it disgusting. I wonder what happened to her, I hope she's doing ok.

 

I reference to your post: YES! There are quite a few times I've been compelled to refer to my H as "OHGODOHGODOHGODOOOOOOH! Jesus!"

If ya know what I mean...

 

JT, I do not want to get into a TJ, more than has already happened here, but at the same time, I have to say does this statement could mean you married up? Better than yourself? (GOOD CHARACTER = NEVER CHEATED)

 

Or is it possible that a ROW can regain “Character”, or just you? If a ROW or ROM can regain character than it would mean a “cheater” can be forgiven, much like you have done for yourself, and be with someone of your H’s caliber, not just another cheater.

 

IMO, you should call your H, “GOD/JESUS” for the simple fact he is above a saint, to except someone with less character than himself and for not sharing your views on Cheaters, because if he did…he may have made a different choice.

 

Now with that said, did you have a DDay, or did you stop the A prior to that?

[woinlove]

JT, I do not want to get into a TJ, more than has already happened here, but at the same time, I have to say does this statement could mean you married up? Better than yourself? (GOOD CHARACTER = NEVER CHEATED)

 

Or is it possible that a ROW can regain “Character”, or just you? If a ROW or ROM can regain character than it would mean a “cheater” can be forgiven, much like you have done for yourself, and be with someone of your H’s caliber, not just another cheater.

 

IMO, you should call your H, “GOD/JESUS” for the simple fact he is above a saint, to except someone with less character than himself and for not sharing your views on Cheaters, because if he did…he may have made a different choice.

 

Now with that said, did you have a DDay, or did you stop the A prior to that?

 

2themoon, since you use the term ROW/ROM, could you explain to me what it means? I've been curious about this ever since I read it here with the explanation that it is derogatory, but the explanation doesn't say why. I assume it means more than simply a former OW/OM who doesn't want to be an OW/OM anymore or again, since that would seem to capture the majority. Or am I wrong about that? What exactly does it mean?

[2themoon&back]

No we haven't all cheated in one form or another. Yes we have all sinned, but to equate most lives with yours is not only wishful thinking but possible a lazy way of living life.

 

 

Bent, how many DDays did you have as a BS? One or More?

 

I ask because the topic of this tread and everyone here knows of your unwavering resolve in this area, I am thinking as a BS that has a no nonsense, no 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance opinion, could offer a very interesting perspective on the topic.

 

Do you think multiply DDays, influences the mindset or guilt level of the OW/OM, or the WS?

 

And if you have already stated this, excuse me for missing it.

[2themoon&back]

2themoon, since you use the term ROW/ROM, could you explain to me what it means? I've been curious about this ever since I read it here with the explanation that it is derogatory, but the explanation doesn't say why. I assume it means more than simply a former OW/OM who doesn't want to be an OW/OM anymore or again, since that would seem to capture the majority. Or am I wrong about that? What exactly does it mean?

 

I had to ask the same question, about the term ROW/ROM, and the answer I got is the one I will give.... Reformed Other Woman/Man.

 

The term is not intended to be derogatory in any way; it is how JThorne refers to herself, in some of her post, as well as others here.

 

I agree with your interruption of the term, I think you are accurate, but since I am not a ROW, I am not really the person to ask about its true definition, IMO. I think someone with experience in this reforming of one’s self could explain it better. I find it very confusing BTW, a real oxymoron.

[woinlove]

I had to ask the same question, about the term ROW/ROM, and the answer I got is the one I will give.... Reformed Other Woman/Man.

 

The term is not intended to be derogatory in any way; it is how JThorne refers to herself, in some of her post, as well as others here.

 

I agree with your interruption of the term, I think you are accurate, but since I am not a ROW, I am not really the person to ask about its true definition, IMO. I think someone with experience in this reforming of one’s self could explain it better. I find it very confusing BTW, a real oxymoron.

 

Thanks for the response. Maybe JThorne can explain it more.

 

While OW/BS/AP, etc are useful because they describe one's (former or current) role within the "triangle" typically being discussed here, I can't see how adjectives meant to capture the sum of one's ultimate reaction to that role are useful. Some no longer want to be an OW/OM because of the pain they experienced, some because they saw the pain to others, some because they decided they don't want to participate in that kind of deception, etc., and probably for many, a combination of these and other reasons. One word is unlikely to capture all this. However, if anyone prefers to refer to themselves as something, and likes others to follow suit, I'm happy to oblige.

 

Sorry for the t/j. This label has puzzled me for a while, so I appreciate learning a bit more about it, but I apologize for cluttering this thread.

[jj33]

Ill chip in here with you Moon. My understanding of the term is someone who was in an A and looks back and regrets it deeply both for herself (or himself) and the others involved. Its not derogtory its just a different point of view than the view that for example, I hold.

 

Personally I would use the term repentant rather than reformed because much like former smokers who once they quit become vehemently anti smoking it appears based on the posts that I see that people who look back in shame or disgust or remorse over their actions or whatever you want to call it seem to be virulently against affairs and in many instances intolerant of those in affairs or choosing to stay in affairs.

 

Some and not all some of those posters are snarky towards people who are in affairs or dont see the world the same way that they do (eg a post to me recently asking why I was defending affairs when mine was over years ago... same question right back atcha why are you spending your time here if you are happily married - we all have the freedom to post here if you dont like what I write, put me on ignore).

 

I can already hear the chorus of whats wrong with that? Are you pro affair?

 

But thats like anti abortionists posting on a board where people come to post about abortion decisions. some of them want support while they go through with the abortion and the anti abortion posters trash anyone who says dont have the baby. And we had that happen here on someone else's thread a few months ago.

[2themoon&back]

Ill chip in here with you Moon. My understanding of the term is someone who was in an A and looks back and regrets it deeply both for herself (or himself) and the others involved. Its not derogtory its just a different point of view than the view that for example, I hold.

 

Personally I would use the term repentant rather than reformed because much like former smokers who once they quit become vehemently anti smoking it appears based on the posts that I see that people who look back in shame or disgust or remorse over their actions or whatever you want to call it seem to be virulently against affairs and in many instances intolerant of those in affairs or choosing to stay in affairs.

 

Some and not all some of those posters are snarky towards people who are in affairs or dont see the world the same way that they do (eg a post to me recently asking why I was defending affairs when mine was over years ago... same question right back atcha why are you spending your time here if you are happily married - we all have the freedom to post here if you dont like what I write, put me on ignore).

 

I can already hear the chorus of whats wrong with that? Are you pro affair?

 

But thats like anti abortionists posting on a board where people come to post about abortion decisions. some of them want support while they go through with the abortion and the anti abortion posters trash anyone who says dont have the baby. And we had that happen here on someone else's thread a few months ago.

 

 

Thank you for your assistants; this is not my area of expertise, not that I have one; I just know this is not it. You did an excellent job of giving a clear definition, way better than I could ever do!

 

WIL, I will ask, because I do not know, what tip of the triangle where you, if any? And if an A was in your life, was there multiple DDays?

[woinlove]

Thank you for your assistants; this is not my area of expertise, not that I have one; I just know this is not it. You did an excellent job of giving a clear definition, way better than I could ever do!

 

WIL, I will ask, because I do not know, what tip of the triangle where you, if any? And if an A was in your life, was there multiple DDays?

 

I have been an OW, more than once. In one case there was a d-day, more than one, and ultimately he divorced and wanted to be together, but I didn't. Back then, I was pretty good at rationalizing and compartmentalizing, so multiple d-days or not, I figured that was MM's business not mine and didn't feel guilty. Sounds ridiculous to me now as I type it, but that is how I thought then.

[trinity1]

I am the BS, and we have had multiple D-days. A D-day doesn't mean that I stop loving my husband, so why would I leave him if he decides he wants to stay with me, that he loves me more? The D-days have been with multiple other women throughout the years, so I don't believe there is true love involved. It is probably more a sign of sexual addiction. He is going to Twelve Step programs, so I am hoping he will get the help he needs to solve this issue there.

 

I have not seen his guilt increase or decline throughout the years. Could that be because his is a case of sexual addiction?

[2themoon&back]

I have been an OW, more than once. In one case there was a d-day, more than one, and ultimately he divorced and wanted to be together, but I didn't. Back then, I was pretty good at rationalizing and compartmentalizing, so multiple d-days or not, I figured that was MM's business not mine and didn't feel guilty. Sounds ridiculous to me now as I type it, but that is how I thought then.

 

What is your position now then? OR better yet what changed your way of thinking, if not multiple DDays, either with one MM or different MM, equaling the same results as multiple days, ?

 

Are you saying now you feel guilt, for the A’s you were involved in?

 

I do understand where you “were” coming from, just curious what changed that rationalization.

 

As for me one A was enough and the multiple DDays sent very mixed messages to me, I could not endure that again.

[2themoon&back]

I am the BS, and we have had multiple D-days. A D-day doesn't mean that I stop loving my husband, so why would I leave him if he decides he wants to stay with me, that he loves me more? The D-days have been with multiple other women throughout the years, so I don't believe there is true love involved. It is probably more a sign of sexual addiction. He is going to Twelve Step programs, so I am hoping he will get the help he needs to solve this issue there.

 

I have not seen his guilt increase or decline throughout the years. Could that be because his is a case of sexual addiction?

 

I hope that the 12 step program helps; I have been told that this program is very successful in changing ones way of thinking no matter what the addiction.

 

Does your H show any guilt for his multiple A’s or indifference? IMO, that would determine his level of consciousness to the effect of his addiction and being a need for a 12 step program.

 

I find your input very interesting and wondered if your thoughts would be different if the MDD’s were with the same OW? Would that mean to you that “true love” was present in the A and would it have changed the outcome for you?

[blissfullyoblivious]

I am the BS, and we have had multiple D-days. A D-day doesn't mean that I stop loving my husband, so why would I leave him if he decides he wants to stay with me, that he loves me more? The D-days have been with multiple other women throughout the years, so I don't believe there is true love involved. It is probably more a sign of sexual addiction. He is going to Twelve Step programs, so I am hoping he will get the help he needs to solve this issue there.

 

I have not seen his guilt increase or decline throughout the years. Could that be because his is a case of sexual addiction?

 

Look after yourself.

You allow his cheating so why would he leave?

Equating his choice to reside with you as proof of his love is a huge assumption.

Hoping that his cheating is a "disease" is an excuse too far.

[woinlove]

What is your position now then? OR better yet what changed your way of thinking, if not multiple DDays, either with one MM or different MM, equaling the same results as multiple days, ?

 

Are you saying now you feel guilt, for the A’s you were involved in?

 

I do understand where you “were” coming from, just curious what changed that rationalization.

 

As for me one A was enough and the multiple DDays sent very mixed messages to me, I could not endure that again.

 

What changed for me? Life and love, lots of both. For me, it wasn't anything to do with a MM or with a d-day. I guess I was too selfish for those to change me significantly. For me, it was receiving and giving a lot more love that gradually changed me, so that I'm sure if I were involved with a MM now I would feel guilt. Then I didn't.

 

I actually came to LS somewhat tempted by a MM, but thinking it was a bad idea, and just reading this forum really drove home to me what a bad idea it was. I've stayed (on LS) because I am still interested in just the question you ask - what changes things for others? Seems like for many, it is the personal pain, but for me, it was rather the opposite. Lots of unconditional love finally made me more sensitive to how my actions affect others. So I choose not to become involved with MM, not to protect myself from pain, but because I don't want to touch others in that hurtful way. I'm in an open M, so for me, it is all about the deception, not about people sharing emotional and/or physical connections outside of M.