Multiple D-Days = Less Guilt?

[Summer Breeze]

For some people, marriage is not so much about passion and sex, but about acceptance and sharing a life together.

 

Some wives love their H's for comfort, security, history. They accept that he may want other women sexually, and this fact does not bother them because they no longer have that need.

 

If their H is still meeting the needs that are important to them, why divorce?

 

Some wives end up not being sexually attracted to their husband's anymore. If he has focused his sexual attention elsewhere, he is more likely to stop bugging her for sex. Some women with low sex drives are relieved when he goes elsewhere because someone else has taken that duty off of her plate.

 

This kind of marriage is not ideal, but is common. It usually goes like this... Husband gets lots of sex early in marriage... wife has kids, doesn't want as much sex... man tries everything to get wife to want sex... wife unenthusiastically obliges...man is tired of being rejected and getting duty sex...man looks outside marriage for sex.

 

MM may be going outside the marriage for sex, but if BW doesn't care about this aspect of the marriage, she is not going to turn her life upside down over it.

 

It will only devastate her if he wants to leave the marriage. Because then HER needs are in jeopardy.

 

OW is not there because MM wants a new wife. OW is there to meet needs that the wife is no longer interested in meeting.

 

I agree everyone in the world has tradeoffs and things they will accept and things they won't. Even with that I can't figure it out but I stopped trying after number 2 I think.

 

In my particular case there were some extenuating circumstances with a child and they both used it as a reason to stay. In some of her calls to me I was privvy to a few things he told her and her responses. He didn't throw me under the bus (when I was listening and from things she told me) and she was left with no doubt his feelings for me. I always felt so bad for them because it felt like they became trapped doing things for the right reasons but somehow resenting each other and pulling themselves apart. Again that's for them to sort out and hopefully they have.

[Summer Breeze]

Summer, thanks for explaining. Wow, that is a mess. I don't know why some BS's choose to stay in that situation. Even as a fBW myself, I can't really understand it. It was just so not my situation. I can see a BS staying until she had a job, or had completed some job training or if it was her child's senior year in high school or something like that but otherwise...

 

In any event, it's good you cut the cord for your own sake. It was an unhealthy dynamic and one that the MM/WS often perpetuates. Cruel, really, to both women.

 

It was about a child and they both were pretty much going to stay in the M at all costs. I understand the reasoning for each but can't imagine living it out.

 

I really didn't feel the unhealthy bit. I love him still with all of my heart. I don't regret a bit of it and the reason I went was that when I was ready for more I left. It was no different to moving on from any other relationship that one partner sees more in than the other. You're right that I did cut the cord for my own sake though but not for the reasons most people would assume.

 

I think the cruel thing was that resentments built so much over the years and they didn't seek any way to fix it. He hadn't cheated before me and I know for a fact he never stopped loving her but either they were too stubborn or complacent or accepting to try and take care of things. Ok that's enough and I'm very sorry for the tj. No more I promise.

[TigerCub]

For some people, marriage is not so much about passion and sex, but about acceptance and sharing a life together.

 

Some wives love their H's for comfort, security, history. They accept that he may want other women sexually, and this fact does not bother them because they no longer have that need.

 

If their H is still meeting the needs that are important to them, why divorce?

 

Some wives end up not being sexually attracted to their husband's anymore. If he has focused his sexual attention elsewhere, he is more likely to stop bugging her for sex. Some women with low sex drives are relieved when he goes elsewhere because someone else has taken that duty off of her plate.

 

This kind of marriage is not ideal, but is common. It usually goes like this... Husband gets lots of sex early in marriage... wife has kids, doesn't want as much sex... man tries everything to get wife to want sex... wife unenthusiastically obliges...man is tired of being rejected and getting duty sex...man looks outside marriage for sex.

 

MM may be going outside the marriage for sex, but if BW doesn't care about this aspect of the marriage, she is not going to turn her life upside down over it.

 

It will only devastate her if he wants to leave the marriage. Because then HER needs are in jeopardy.

 

OW is not there because MM wants a new wife. OW is there to meet needs that the wife is no longer interested in meeting.

 

Interesting take on it.

But if the bold were true, then the BW wouldn't be upset at the discovery of the A - and therefore there shouldn't be any guilt on the part of the OW at all...well, unless she's trying to get him to leave the M.

 

hmmm, that is interesting. Thanks QS

[TigerCub]

I don't know if multiple ddays = less guilt

I do know that multiple ddays = less respect.

oh yeah - that's for sure!!

[Snowflower]

For some people, marriage is not so much about passion and sex, but about acceptance and sharing a life together.

 

Some wives love their H's for comfort, security, history. They accept that he may want other women sexually, and this fact does not bother them because they no longer have that need.

 

If their H is still meeting the needs that are important to them, why divorce?

 

Some wives end up not being sexually attracted to their husband's anymore. If he has focused his sexual attention elsewhere, he is more likely to stop bugging her for sex. Some women with low sex drives are relieved when he goes elsewhere because someone else has taken that duty off of her plate.

 

This kind of marriage is not ideal, but is common. It usually goes like this... Husband gets lots of sex early in marriage... wife has kids, doesn't want as much sex... man tries everything to get wife to want sex... wife unenthusiastically obliges...man is tired of being rejected and getting duty sex...man looks outside marriage for sex.

 

MM may be going outside the marriage for sex, but if BW doesn't care about this aspect of the marriage, she is not going to turn her life upside down over it.

 

It will only devastate her if he wants to leave the marriage. Because then HER needs are in jeopardy.

 

OW is not there because MM wants a new wife. OW is there to meet needs that the wife is no longer interested in meeting.

 

This is interesting but IMO it kind of reinforces the stereotypes about infidelity. Oftentimes, it is assumed that the BW is just with her husband for the kids, comfort, and shared history. And it is often assumed that the cheating husband is having an affair just for sex.

 

After experiencing an affair in my own marriage, going to counseling, reading LS and other sources, I don't think these assertions are true in most cases.

 

If it is often the case the the wife no longer cares for sex with her husband, then why are so many BW devastated when they find out their husband is having an affair?

 

Also, why do so many OW truly believe that their relationship with their MM is more than just sex?

 

No disrespect QS, but what you write seems more like stereotypes than real experience. Have you ever been involved in any aspect of infidelity? I don't mean that in a snarky way...

[Quiet Storm]

If it is often the case the the wife no longer cares for sex with her husband, then why are so many BW devastated when they find out their husband is having an affair?

 

Also, why do so many OW truly believe that their relationship with their MM is more than just sex?

 

No disrespect QS, but what you write seems more like stereotypes than real experience. Have you ever been involved in any aspect of infidelity? I don't mean that in a snarky way...

 

I think the wife is threatened by the OW, but not because OW is getting the sex that BW wants. She knows that OW will probably expect WH to leave the marriage, and BW doesn't want that. She doesn't want her H to become committed to anyone else. She wishes to protect the home, her family unit, her "nest".

 

From OW's perspective, the relationship IS more than just sex. It's romance, it's a "connection", it is a real relationship. His attention makes her feel alive. Sometimes MM feel the same, sometimes it is all lies to keep OW in the loop. But even if MM feels the love, the love is not usually important enough to him to leave his marriage. He realizes that passion is fleeting and will not usually change his life over it unless BW is alcoholic, addicted or mentally ill.

 

Many times, if infidelity is discovered and it is a dealbreaker for BW, she will file for divorce. This often devastates MM because he didn't really want that. Then OW will get OM by default, and OW now has a conflict avoider with poor coping skills all to herself.

 

My marriage has not personally been touched by infidelity, but my career choice has given me a lot of insight into marriages, gender differences, family dysfunction and addictions. I don't wish to elaborate on that (TMI), but can tell you that what I post is not based on ideas or stereotypes. It's based on what I have discovered that many people do, think, feel.

 

I came here because my H and I were having some issues related to some things prior to our marriage, and I was looking for similar stories. Reading here, it bothers me to see so many women wrapped up with MM, because it usually ends badly. MM are often not the romantic, strong, loving martyrs that they portray. That is what they want you think, because it results in your attention and admiration, which feeds thier fragile egos. You are their supply for feel-good feelings about themselves. They are often confused, broken, conflict avoiding, selfish men who don't mind using OW as a band aid for their dysfunction.

 

Stereotypes often exist because there is some truth to them. Men love sex. LOVE IT. This is a generalization, but I consider it to be true for most men. It is one of their #1 motivators in life. I would guess that 80% of men with healthy sex drives view porn at least few times a week, in addition to sex with their partner. Romance? Most men do the romance thing because it results in sex, not usually because they actually like it. (there are a few genuinely romantic men out there) If women didn't like romance so much, most men would skip that part. If romance was a man's motivator, they would use thier free time to read romance novels, watch soaps and Twilight movies...not porn. That may be a stereotype, but by watching what people do, you will find that often stereotypes are based in truth. To deny yourself knowledge, because it is stereotypical, can be a diservice to yourself. Knowledge is power, and the more you know the better off you are.

[Snowflower]

QS, thanks for answering!

 

TC, if this is too much of a threadjack, we can start a new thread but this is interesting...

 

QS, I don't think my question was answered...

 

 

If it is often the case the the wife no longer cares for sex with her husband, then why are so many BW devastated when they find out their husband is having an affair?

 

 

By this below:

 

I think the wife is threatened by the OW, but not because OW is getting the sex that BW wants. She knows that OW will probably expect WH to leave the marriage, and BW doesn't want that. She doesn't want her H to become committed to anyone else. She wishes to protect the home, her family unit, her "nest".

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative but this implies that the BW is merely being territorial when she may in fact be heartbroken because she loves her husband.

 

Many BW are devastated when the affair is discovered. I think for most people it is the heartbreak, the loss of trust, the deception, etc. that is more devastating to the BS than the loss of security that you mention above.

 

This is where the stereotypes come in and while I agree that there is an element of truth in them, they aren't all-encompassing. A BW is devastated most often because she thinks she is about to lose the man she loves.

 

There is often a lot more to the devastation a BW feels than the potential loss of the family unit, comfort, history together, etc. For some reason, it seems like the feelings of a BW aren't all that important in the infidelity scenario that you posted.

 

From OW's perspective, the relationship IS more than just sex. It's romance, it's a "connection", it is a real relationship. His attention makes her feel alive. Sometimes MM feel the same, sometimes it is all lies to keep OW in the loop. But even if MM feels the love, the love is not usually important enough to him to leave his marriage. He realizes that passion is fleeting and will not usually change his life over it unless BW is alcoholic, addicted or mentally ill.

 

Since I have never been an OW, I don't wish to speak to this. I would be guessing at best. But perhaps an OW will chime in.

 

Many times, if infidelity is discovered and it is a dealbreaker for BW, she will file for divorce. This often devastates MM because he didn't really want that. Then OW will get OM by default, and OW now has a conflict avoider with poor coping skills all to herself.

 

I agree. IMO, people often have affairs because of poor coping skills, conflict avoidance issues or are dealing with some sort of emotional trauma. If the MP leaves the marriage but doesn't deal with their individual issues, they will likely carry this into the next relationship.

 

My marriage has not personally been touched by infidelity, but my career choice has given me a lot of insight into marriages, gender differences, family dysfunction and addictions. I don't wish to elaborate on that (TMI), but can tell you that what I post is not based on ideas or stereotypes. It's based on what I have discovered that many people do, think, feel.

 

Fair enough.

 

But to say that most affairs are the result of the MM not getting enough sex at home and that the wife will be more upset about the loss of her security is oversimplifying things.

 

I came here because my H and I were having some issues related to some things prior to our marriage, and I was looking for similar stories. Reading here, it bothers me to see so many women wrapped up with MM, because it usually ends badly. MM are often not the romantic, strong, loving martyrs that they portray. That is what they want you think, because it results in your attention and admiration, which feeds thier fragile egos. You are their supply for feel-good feelings about themselves. They are often confused, broken, conflict avoiding, selfish men who don't mind using OW as a band aid for their dysfunction.

 

Agree...

 

Stereotypes often exist because there is some truth to them. Men love sex. LOVE IT. This is a generalization, but I consider it to be true for most men. It is one of their #1 motivators in life. I would guess that 80% of men with healthy sex drives view porn at least few times a week, in addition to sex with their partner. Romance? Most men do the romance thing because it results in sex, not usually because they actually like it. (there are a few genuinely romantic men out there) If women didn't like romance so much, most men would skip that part. If romance was a man's motivator, they would use thier free time to read romance novels, watch soaps and Twilight movies...not porn.

 

I agree that men and women view sex and relationships very differently. They also view affairs differently as well. Personally, I think it is much more difficult for a marriage to recover when the wife has an affair than when the husband does. I think this for a variety of reasons and some aren't too popular!

 

That may be a stereotype, but by watching what people do, you will find that often stereotypes are based in truth. To deny yourself knowledge, because it is stereotypical, can be a diservice to yourself. Knowledge is power, and the more you know the better off you are.

 

I already agreed that there is some truth in stereotypes. But, they are not all encompassing. To assume everyone feels/does the same thing based on a stereotype is oversimplifying things.

 

At any rate, thank you for the interesting discussion.

[TigerCub]

QS, thanks for answering!

 

TC, if this is too much of a threadjack, we can start a new thread but this is interesting...

 

No worries, snowflower, I'm finding this as interesting as you are

[TigerCub]

Great post QS!

From OW's perspective, the relationship IS more than just sex. It's romance, it's a "connection", it is a real relationship. His attention makes her feel alive. Sometimes MM feel the same, sometimes it is all lies to keep OW in the loop. But even if MM feels the love, the love is not usually important enough to him to leave his marriage. He realizes that passion is fleeting and will not usually change his life over it unless BW is alcoholic, addicted or mentally ill.

I read a lot here because I was getting into an A situation (my one and ONLY) - and I do find that what you're saying here is true (for me at least) - it doesn't matter if xMM loved me for real or not - he wasn't leaving, he wasn't going anywhere.

 

I came here because my H and I were having some issues related to some things prior to our marriage, and I was looking for similar stories. Reading here, it bothers me to see so many women wrapped up with MM, because it usually ends badly. MM are often not the romantic, strong, loving martyrs that they portray. That is what they want you think, because it results in your attention and admiration, which feeds thier fragile egos. You are their supply for feel-good feelings about themselves. They are often confused, broken, conflict avoiding, selfish men who don't mind using OW as a band aid for their dysfunction.

Truer words have never been spoken!

I learned all about that the hard way - but I believe that its very true. Not just from my own experience, but also from reading posts here, and listening to RL people's stories.

[seren]

Oh sister do you have a few hours.

 

I was a BS who left the M within hours of finding out about xHs A. 20 years later I fell in love with xMM and we 5, yes 5, ddays. We probably would have had 30 or more by now but I ended the A when I was unhappier more days than I was happy.

 

His guilt. I don't know about his guilt. I think he felt loads and loads of it but he obviously was happy to put it aside for whatever reason. My guilt. None. I never felt guilty during or after the A. I know my opinion isn't popular but I didn't cheat on anyone. I would have been happy to tell her but he didn't want me to. I made it clear I wouldn't participate in any subterfuge or be part of excuses or plans to fool her. If he wanted to lie and manipulate that was his choice. He knew from the first that I thought he was stupid and that if we were ever caught I would not lie to her about anything.

 

So as far as the guilt on my part it didn't change. I think he didn't feel any more or less guilt as it went on but I do think he knows full well he could have gotten away with it forever. As far as why someone would allow multiple ddays I can't figure it out. I would assume that the reasons he was staying were the same things that didn't let her leave. I think they had misguided senses of loyalty and duty and responsibility but those were things they chose. I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be. I hope they're making the best of it but with him still trying to contact me I don't think that's the case.

 

Summer, my H had an A, not multpile A's. Once he told me on D Day and I understood all the dynamics that led up to the A, I made a decision to stay and work on our marriage. I don't excuse the A, neither does H. Have I found peace? well I would have to say yes, if I didn't I really wouldn't be here. Our son is grown and lives away, I earn considerably more than H and only stay because I love him. I have never plodded along, in fact, if you knew me IRL, you would understand just how incongruous that is apllied to myself. I also have never pretended to be anything other than what and who I am - an independent, assertive, funny, ballsy woman, yes I have forgiven my H. Could I forgive another D Day? Well no, the dynamics of our life are very different, to understand this, you would have to understand where H was at that time in his life. Iraq and PTSD played a huge part, had there been no underlying reasons, I doubt I would be here now, but it was, what it was.

 

After D Day we made decisions about our future, our marriage and relationship, things we had taken for granted, trust, truth etc had to be rebuilt - not so the sex life or the love, that hadn't gone anywhere, other than H needed to learn to like himself, to feel he deserved to be loved. I wonder at those who endure multiple D Days, it wouldn't work for me. I would also add that if I were OW, then I would expect a D Day to end in either the WS staying, in which case I would exit stage left, PDQ, or the leaving to be with me. I wouldn't want to be with someone who would return after a D Day as they would have chosen to stay in a supposedly broken relationship, and I personally , would have no respect for that. Having said that, I wonder how some OW can stay after multiple D Days, not being snarky, it just occurred to me that if I were with someone, it would have to be for love, to realise that the A was out there and they still didn't leave and would choose to stay in an apparently disfunctional marriage when they could leave, would hurt me, immensly.

Edited February 11, 2011 by seren

[Summer Breeze]

Oh sister do you have a few hours.

 

I was a BS who left the M within hours of finding out about xHs A. 20 years later I fell in love with xMM and we 5, yes 5, ddays. We probably would have had 30 or more by now but I ended the A when I was unhappier more days than I was happy.

 

His guilt. I don't know about his guilt. I think he felt loads and loads of it but he obviously was happy to put it aside for whatever reason. My guilt. None. I never felt guilty during or after the A. I know my opinion isn't popular but I didn't cheat on anyone. I would have been happy to tell her but he didn't want me to. I made it clear I wouldn't participate in any subterfuge or be part of excuses or plans to fool her. If he wanted to lie and manipulate that was his choice. He knew from the first that I thought he was stupid and that if we were ever caught I would not lie to her about anything.

 

So as far as the guilt on my part it didn't change. I think he didn't feel any more or less guilt as it went on but I do think he knows full well he could have gotten away with it forever. As far as why someone would allow multiple ddays I can't figure it out. I would assume that the reasons he was staying were the same things that didn't let her leave. I think they had misguided senses of loyalty and duty and responsibility but those were things they chose. I so often read the stories of Spark and Seren and Phoenix. I wonder if they've found any peace or if they're just plodding along and pretending to be what they've always pretended to be. I hope they're making the best of it but with him still trying to contact me I don't think that's the case.

 

Summer, my H had an A, not multpile A's. Once he told me on D Day and I understood all the dynamics that led up to the A, I made a decision to stay and work on our marriage. I don't excuse the A, neither does H. Have I found peace? well I would have to say yes, if I didn't I really wouldn't be here. Our son is grown and lives away, I earn considerably more than H and only stay because I love him. I have never plodded along, in fact, if you knew me IRL, you would understand just how incongruous that is apllied to myself. I also have never pretended to be anything other than what and who I am - an independent, assertive, funny, ballsy woman, yes I have forgiven my H. Could I forgive another D Day? Well no, the dynamics of our life are very different, to understand this, you would have to understand where H was at that time in his life. Iraq and PTSD played a huge part, had there been no underlying reasons, I doubt I would be here now, but it was, what it was.

 

After D Day we made decisions about our future, our marriage and relationship, things we had taken for granted, trust, truth etc had to be rebuilt - not so the sex life or the love, that hadn't gone anywhere, other than H needed to learn to like himself, to feel he deserved to be loved. I wonder at those who endure multiple D Days, it wouldn't work for me. I would also add that if I were OW, then I would expect a D Day to end in either the WS staying, in which case I would exit stage left, PDQ, or the leaving to be with me. I wouldn't want to be with someone who would return after a D Day as they would have chosen to stay in a supposedly broken relationship, and I personally , would have no respect for that. Having said that, I wonder how some OW can stay after multiple D Days, not being snarky, it just occurred to me that if I were with someone, it would have to be for love, to realise that the A was out there and they still didn't leave and would choose to stay in an apparently disfunctional marriage when they could leave, would hurt me, immensly.

 

Seren please please read back a little. I meant my xMM and his W were plodding along. I meant that I hoped that somehow they found the peace you all seem to have found. I in no way meant that you, Spark or PR were plodding along or that you had multiple ddays. I am so sorry for the confusion but if you see from posts yesterday I did get called out on it and clarified!

[Quiet Storm]

I'm not trying to be argumentative but this implies that the BW is merely being territorial when she may in fact be heartbroken because she loves her husband.

 

Many BW are devastated when the affair is discovered. I think for most people it is the heartbreak, the loss of trust, the deception, etc. that is more devastating to the BS than the loss of security that you mention above.

 

 

I did not intend to undermine the BW's pain at all. I just think that after many years of being married, marriage often becomes less about passion & sex and more about commitment, security and sharing a life. I think there is a natural progression that happens in long term relationships. Keeping the passion alive in a marriage takes effort, and many couples do not realize this and the passion falls by the wayside.

 

I think the BW is often very heartbroken about the lies and deception- its just not usually about sex is all I meant. I think in many cases, women do not realize how important sex is to their marriage. During the marriage, their sex drives drop, so sex is not a priority and kids take over their lives. These women are okay with the lack of sex in their marriage, and assume that their H's will learn to live with it. The husbands will often try many things to re-ignite their sex life. They feel very rejected & unloved when they get a lackluster response. He will eventually give up trying to protect his ego. When the man stops pursuing, the wife assumes that he has accepted that she doesn't want sex and actually feels relief that she no longer has to turn him down or have duty sex.

 

I think most women don't usually consider that he will get it elsewhere. Since he continues to act normally in other aspects, she wrongly assumes that he is okay with this arrangement. It may sound unbelievable, but there are many women that are perfectly content without sex. Although most will never admit it publicly, there are also many women that accept that he will get sex elsewhere, and don't care about this UNLESS she is confronted with it. Many people say this type of woman is "in denial", but usually she is not. She just chooses not to push the issue on sexual fidelity because sex is not important to her. Her other needs are being met, so she lets it slide. She doesn't want to know details about it or find evidence of it. She doesn't want it to be public knowledge. But she will ignore the indescretions because it keeps the marriage intact. Cheating MM is content with his sex life, and BW is content with the other aspects of the marriage.

 

For wives that do expect sexual fidelity (or her husband's celibacy), the woman is often shocked and hurt because she thought everything was fine. She assumed that because HER sex drive waned as she aged, that HIS did, too. His lack of pursuit is her evidence of this. She projected her feelings onto him, in error. This is often devastating to BW because she looks back on her marriage and realizes that her H viewed her lack of interest as a rejection of his love. She often blames herself for the state of the marriage, although the infidelity was his conflict-avoiding way to deal with his unmet needs.

 

This self-blame often causes the wife to give him many chances, because she often realizes that his passion for OW will wane (and she is usually right). Marriages go through many ups and downs. There are waves of passion, waves of boredom, waves of contentness and waves of unfulfillment. When you look at the big picture of a marriage, an affair is often just a bad way to cope with a "down time" in a marriage. A wife is often well aware of (and annoyed with) his bad coping skills, and recognizes that the affair is a symptom of his dysfunctional way of dealing with problems. She can tell that it is not about the OW, it's about MM and she will often stick around while he figures this out for himself.

 

If MM would say to BW "Sex is an important need for me. It keeps me bonded to you and our marriage. I need sex in my life to feel fulfilled. If you will not have sex with me, then I will get a girlfriend to have sex with", it would force the wife to face the marriage problem. But MM often don't do that. It would make them feel like an ******* to say that. They avoid conflict and just find another source to meet those needs.

[seren]

Sorry Summer, I misread, and I took absolutely no offence at anything. I think if problems aren't addressed after D Day, then possibly the marriage may have multpile D Days. Some marriages, of course, never recover. I have to be honest here, but I sure as hell couldn't go through another one, for those who have multpile D Days, I wonder at the dynamics of the marriage. The same applies to OW/OM who have multiple D Days happen, I don't understand that either. I cannot imagine staying with someone who, having had the opportunity to leave, chose not to. I am possibly naive about this as it just doesn't compute with me.

 

I also think that if the MM is calling, then he hasn't found peace and may always look elswhere for what is missing in him or his marriage.

No need to apologise for the confusion, is all mine, I should learn to read more thoroughly.

[Mary-Jane]

The same applies to OW/OM who have multiple D Days happen, I don't understand that either. I cannot imagine staying with someone who, having had the opportunity to leave, chose not to. I am possibly naive about this as it just doesn't compute with me.

 

Same reason BWs stay - love and hope and perseverance, sometimes determination to "win" because frankly in these cases where MMs do continue with their affairs they have to give some hope to them , tell them they love them, one day, etc in order to be able to carry on as before. So it just goes on and on... sometimes for many many years - if you invest a lot of time and emotions it's just as difficult to let go as to get a divorce

[Quiet Storm]

The one common dominater is a mm who doesn't have many qualms about manipulating and being deceitful to keep both women hanging on.

 

Right, because he is only concerned with HIS NEEDS. His needs are being met by both women, and he will try to perpetuate that for as long as they will let him.

 

He will try to manage the feelings and emotions of both women by telling them both what they want to hear. Usually he tells the wife the affair was just sex and meaningless. Usually OW gets a story about how he loves her but just needs more time because wife is crazy, unstable, will keep him from the kids, etc.

 

Men like this have an idea in their head of how they want things to be, and they try to control everything and everyone to keep things status quo.

 

He is not concerned with the feelings of either woman, he is only concerned with how the fallout of their feelings and emotions will affect him.

 

A woman's feelings are often an inconvenience to a man like this. If you try to discuss negative emotions with him, or cry because you are hurt by his behavior, he will not care about resolving the issue that hurt you. He will only care about calming you down and smoothing things over so that he can keep the status quo.

 

At D-day, MM's goal is not to resolve the issue by making a choice between wife & OW. His goal is to appease each woman enough so that he can keep both women for as long as possible.

 

He will usually try to keep both unless he feels he is in real danger of losing the marriage (like wife filing for D) or if OW pressures him too much or intrudes into his real life (by calling BW, showing up at his house). When OW stops being a benefit and becomes a liability, she loses much of her appeal.

[SuzieWong]

My ex husband had a girlfriend and I wanted to believe him when he said the affair was over so I did. It wasnt. Eventually I left. It was devastating.

 

I am now the mistress of a married man Or OW as you call it here?

 

I have become more philosophical about the situation. He loves me. I love him. Men do what they do. We have not had a D day yet.

 

No reason to feel guilt if we had multiple D days. I learned the hard way that it is naive to expect a man who has cheated on you once will not cheat on you again. Once your husband has crossed the line, he has crossed it.

 

IMHO a tiger who has sneaked out of his cage will never allow himself to be stuck in that same cage again.

[Summer Breeze]

I'm not going to make this thread about me but since I seem to be the only one chiming in about multiple ddays I feel like I need to set something straight.

 

There's a lot of talk about the MM manipulating OW after dday. It may be the case with some but it wasn't with mine. I know for a fact there was a whole lot of truth in what he told her and he had no reason to lie to me. Conversations between BS and I confirmed that.

 

I will happily admit the situation I had with xMM was very different to most but since I brought my situation in and the conversation went on I just wanted to clarify that what is being said about MM in general was not the case with my situation.

 

Carry on kids.

[SuzieWong]

When OW stops being a benefit and becomes a liability, she loses much of her appeal.

 

The same could be said of the wife.

[blissfullyoblivious]

People of character don't cheat. So here, by your own admission, the MM you are seeing is no better than your ex.

 

Interesting.

 

It is a sad thing when people have neither the wit to speak well nor the judgment to hold their tongues.

[Distant78]

It is a sad thing when people have neither the wit to speak well nor the judgment to hold their tongues.

 

You mean neither the wit to type nor the judgment to hold their fingers over their keyboards. Hey if this website has voice-chat or something then let me know.

 

Just kiddin.

[jj33]

People of character don't cheat. So here, by your own admission, the MM you are seeing is no better than your ex.

 

Interesting.

 

mistyped I didnt mean to respond to this post.

Edited February 12, 2011 by jj33

[SuzieWong]

People of character don't cheat. So here, by your own admission, the MM you are seeing is no better than your ex.

 

Interesting.

 

 

You are correct Miss Torne. My lover is not a better man than my husband. I think you assume that my husband was not a good man or that I think he was a bad man. Do you know either of these men? I do not think so and I do not think you have reason to make this judgement.

 

Seeing other things you post I can see that you have a bad view of affairs. I had that view too until I looked deep inside myself and took a tough look at my marriage. There were signs. I was not open to seeing them. I read another post on here saying life is not all black and white. I agree with that. Everyone wants marriage to be simple but it is not always so.

 

You think cheaters have no character. I think that life is more complex. I judge each person separately and give each person a chance. I do not prejudge because someone has cheated. That is not enough to make them a bad person. I was married for 15 years and I had 2 children with my husband. He is a good father. I would like my children to live in a world as simple as yours Miss Thorne where everyone is happy all of the time and relationships are not complicated and you can know the character of two men who you have never met.

[Lucius]

People of character don't cheat. So here, by your own admission, the MM you are seeing is no better than your ex.

 

Interesting.

 

Interesting indeed...

 

So if I understand this correctly I believe we would also be willing to conclude that People of character don't lie either. I mean cheating being a kind of lying with some kind of bad doing attached I guess. And you know I wouldn't say that stealing was exactly an example of character (well not good character at least). So people of character don't steal either (at least not from like a store but maybe from the IRS its ok or I guess that comes under lying, gosh its complicated).

 

So I guess if your write such a sentence you could fill in just about any sin (I mean who could disagree really). "People of character don't sin!". I mean whats the counter argument? People of character DO sin? Or people of character may commit the following venial sins...?

 

OK so if anyone's H is a man of character then he never...

 

Cheats or lies or steals or covets his neighbors wife (or ox or ass) or actually it appears sins in anyway.

 

So if your H is a man of character then I can think of only one man who that could be! Sorry to out you here but that makes you MRS. CHRIST!

 

That explains where the stones are coming from! Only one person authorized to throw those as we know!

[jj33]

This morning I didnt want to respond but now I will. JT I understand your views on this but I have to disagree with such a blanket statement. Would I want my SO to go outside the relationshp before trying to work out the issues with me? No. Would I be upset? Im certain I would.

 

But I cant agree that all people who cheat automatically lack character.

 

And whoa lets try and be a little more welcoming to new posters shall we? Or is the aim to make sure that the only people who respond to OWs on this board are BSs and people who abhor cheating.

 

Welcome Suzie Wong. That was my post you were referring to I think (about the black and white).

[jthorne]

So if your H is a man of character then I can think of only one man who that could be! Sorry to out you here but that makes you MRS. CHRIST!

 

That explains where the stones are coming from! Only one person authorized to throw those as we know!

Gosh, this post sounds familiar... There was this one chick who was so freaking jealous that I married a good man of character, one that had never cheated before and found it disgusting. I wonder what happened to her, I hope she's doing ok.

 

I reference to your post: YES! There are quite a few times I've been compelled to refer to my H as "OHGODOHGODOHGODOOOOOOH! Jesus!"

If ya know what I mean...