I'm losing the war

[fadingfast]

Hi. Going to be a lengthy post, but I hope someone reads everything and can give me a little advice....I'm american, live in the usa. My girlfriend is chinese and lives in China. We met 2 years ago, online, and started a relationship with each other around 6 months ago. We finally met in person, 2 months ago when I travelled to China to meet her. I spent 2 months there with her and she spent every single day and night with me. My last day there was extremely heartbreaking for the both of us, as my plane left at 8am, we didn't have much time that morning for anything, except a quick breakfast and a very tearful good bye.

The problem lies within her family. They hate me, they don't accept me, and they don't think our relationship is real. She tried to set a meeting with all of us while I was there, but they just flat out refused to meet me. She even had to stay with me in secrecy. They didn't know until the final week that she was infact staying with me the entire time.

Now that I am back home(been home for 10 days now)things are progressively getting worse, day by day. I am willing to even relocate there, leave everything I have here and my family, just to save our relationship. But it's not that easy. The only way her family will even try to accept me, is if I can buy a house there, and only if I can pay all of the money at one time. And i just do not have that kind of money, can't even make that in a year, unless I hit the lottery.

There mere thought of breaking up just completely crushes my spirit, and we cry everytime we talk about it or see each other on webcam now. And today, she tells me they don't want her talking to me so much, that her mother is going to sleep with her, so I can't call her. I always wake her every morning and listen to her sleep, call her at night when she goes to bed. They are trying to take her phone and her computer away, and her brother even took the key to her bedroom. Oh, and by the way, she's 22 years old!!! A prisoner in her home, and she's so afraid of leaving, she worries a lot about what her family thinks of her, and does not want to disappoint them.

I tried to convince her to come here, even if it's only for a short time, couple of months, but she can't, because of her family. I fear that our days are numbered unless some miracle occurs. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking, and it's making us argue a little, but we are really so so so much in love, and I have no doubt we belong together. I believe in that.

Any advice at all, would be greatly appreciated. Im 30 years old btw. I fell in love with a girl, losing her fast and feel completely lost without her.

[madjac74]

I fear that our days are numbered unless some miracle occurs. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking, and it's making us argue a little, but we are really so so so much in love, and I have no doubt we belong together. I believe in that.

Any advice at all, would be greatly appreciated. Im 30 years old btw. I fell in love with a girl, losing her fast and feel completely lost without her.

 

I can tell you without a doubt that I know exactly how you feel with this statement. I really have no solutions other than to fight for her anyway you can

[aerogurl87]

Get her out of there is my only advice to save this relationship. Is there a way she can stay with you and go to university here in the States for a bit? I mean pretty much anything to get out of that situation with her family. I understand what she means about virtually being in a prison and not wanting to upset her family. I was in the same situation growing up where I didn't have the same beliefs as my overly protective and strict parents but never wanted to disappoint them. But if she's 22, she can't live for them, she has to live for herself. And I think if you two see this relationship having the potential to be long term, may now be the time to start looking into visas for her whether it be to study or work in the US, find her something.

[fadingfast]

I can tell you without a doubt that I know exactly how you feel with this statement. I really have no solutions other than to fight for her anyway you can

I'm fighting every way I can think of. Everytime we talk about it, I tell her I will never give up. I had an idea that maybe if her family could meet me half way, if I can get a good job there, a house even if I have to pay month by month, then maybe that would be good enough for them, for a start. But they are not accepting any other way except their way. It's a horrible feeling, keeping my head up as much as I can though.

[madjac74]

I'm fighting every way I can think of. Everytime we talk about it, I tell her I will never give up. I had an idea that maybe if her family could meet me half way, if I can get a good job there, a house even if I have to pay month by month, then maybe that would be good enough for them, for a start. But they are not accepting any other way except their way. It's a horrible feeling, keeping my head up as much as I can though.

 

Honestly do you think its more the fact that you are an American rather than what you can provide for her? I know a lot of other cultures dont accept us Americans

[aerogurl87]

I'm fighting every way I can think of. Everytime we talk about it, I tell her I will never give up. I had an idea that maybe if her family could meet me half way, if I can get a good job there, a house even if I have to pay month by month, then maybe that would be good enough for them, for a start. But they are not accepting any other way except their way. It's a horrible feeling, keeping my head up as much as I can though.

 

That's absurd! They're just saying that because they know it will be near impossible for you to buy a house outright in their country. It's just an excuse to not have to get to know you. And believe me, even if you did manage to buy a house there in full they'd come up with more restrictions to keep you at bay still.

[fadingfast]

Get her out of there is my only advice to save this relationship. Is there a way she can stay with you and go to university here in the States for a bit? I mean pretty much anything to get out of that situation with her family. I understand what she means about virtually being in a prison and not wanting to upset her family. I was in the same situation growing up where I didn't have the same beliefs as my overly protective and strict parents but never wanted to disappoint them. But if she's 22, she can't live for them, she has to live for herself. And I think if you two see this relationship having the potential to be long term, may now be the time to start looking into visas for her whether it be to study or work in the US, find her something.

She made the decision several days ago that she doesn't want to leave. She feels that by leaving, she will leave too much of a burden on her mother. She thinks it will be her fault if her family breaks apart. I'm willing to go there, I loved it there, and I'm currently sending out resumes, but they still want me to be able to buy a house. If they won't even try to accept me, we are going to be done I'm afraid, and soon. She knows it will be easier for us if she comes here to live with me, but I can't seem to get her to understand that she's old enough to do what she wants, and don't worry about what other ppl think. So damn frustrating to even think about...

[fadingfast]

Honestly do you think its more the fact that you are an American rather than what you can provide for her? I know a lot of other cultures dont accept us Americans

Well that's part of it too. Sorry, I failed to mention that! Foreign guys cheat, and will only end up leaving. In their opinion. But she says their main concern is how I will support us. We both knew what we were getting into when we decided to give this a try, it's just taking its toll on us more than we thought it would and proving to be a lot more difficult.

But not being able to do something or making any kind of progress with them, well, it's stupid...It's different cultures and traditions, but we're 2 ppl 100% compatible and 100% wanting to make this work. But that brick wall is thick...

[aerogurl87]

But she says their main concern is how I will support us.

 

This I can understand, even moreso if she had considered moving to the States with you. My parents are really conservative and traditional Americans who think the guy should provide the most, if not completely, for the household financially. So when my boyfriend and I told my parents I was moving to Canada to be with him that was one of their main concerns, although when my mom learned that my boyfriend makes more money than both of my parents make combined in a year their fears pretty much subsided.

 

I think this has more to do with you being American though and they probably wanted her to marry a Chinese guy, not some foreigner. Someone with a similar cultural background and all that jazz.

[fadingfast]

I think this has more to do with you being American though and they probably wanted her to marry a Chinese guy, not some foreigner.

 

Well yeah they would prefer her to find a Chinese guy, but the thing with us just happened. I wasn't looking for a Chinese girl and she wasn't looking for a foreigner. But it's just the fact they won't even meet me. I left there one day before the Chinese new year started, and even though they don't accept me, I still bought gifts for her family, as an effort to reach out to them. But it didn't even make a dent. And as far as supporting us, I know I could do it. I have a good job here, and looking at several promising good jobs there in China as well. I just don't have the large lump sum of cash needed to pay in full for a house. But like you said earlier, I think they would still find other ways to refuse me. I don't know what to do, but I gotta tell ya, it feels good to talk about it with others at least. Been keeping this stuff between her and I. So thank you guys for hearing me out and replying.

[fadingfast]

As much as I'm hoping something will change for the better, I'm also trying to prepare for the unhappy ending. She's smart, she's beautiful, and I have no doubt she could find someone else, someone her family would accept and be everything they want and expect of. But she's still holding on despite all of the drama, for us. Crying as I type this and feel like a fool. But I think about someone else holding her at night, kissing her, seeing her everyday.....that's my job, MY spot...I don't want anyone else, don't want to look for anyone else. I'm getting the feeling when she wakes up tomorrow, things are going to be bad. And I don't know how to deal with it, what to say, what to do...Preparing for a rough weekend though.

[Eddie Edirol]

Im pretty sure that her parents are making these rules on you just to keep you away from her. They have no intention of letting her staying with you no matter what they make you do. if you came up with the money and actually bought the house out there, they would say something like "you bought that house too fast, you must be a drug dealer, you have to prove yourself to us some other way" They wont accept you no matter what. Heres the real problem, you are willing to give up america for her, but shes not willing to give up china for you, I think your decision is right there. She cant be without her family, I say it will hurt badly, but you have to let this one go.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Eddie Edirol

[sammyd]

Really sorry to hear about your situation. I think you need to speak to your girlfriend seriously about the future.

If you are serious about moving there,tell her, and keep applying for jobs there. Once you have one, and you can afford to rent a place, your girlfriend will have to meet you the rest of the way.

The family's criteria are impossible. But, if your girlfriend is serious, she will have to put her foot down. If you have a house there, (even if it is rented) and a job, then that is proof that you can provide for her. The rest will be up to her.

((hugs))

[creighton0123]

I can tell you that what her family is expecting of you is a very real expectation from traditional Eastern families.

 

Aerogurl wrote "Get her out of there is my only advice to save this relationship. Is there a way she can stay with you and go to university here in the States for a bit? I mean pretty much anything to get out of that situation with her family."

 

Madjac wrote "Honestly do you think its more the fact that you are an American rather than what you can provide for her? I know a lot of other cultures dont accept us Americans "

 

Don't confuse her stress and anxiety over not being with you with feelings of oppression from her family. Expectations when it comes to daughters and marriage are significant with non-Westernized Chinese families.

 

They expect that in approving of their daughter's marriage, not only will the daughter be financially secure, but so will grandchildren and grandparents.

 

Given your description, you haven't adhered at all to their customs, which her parents can interpret as being either very disrespectful or a sign of your ignorance/ineptitude.

 

They expect the following:

1. You learn Chinese

2. You become a Chinese citizen

3. You buy a house

4. You go through the entire traditional courtship process:

- Letter + gifts to parents expressing interest

- Gift letter describing the value of each gift

- A job with a certain level of income of value to the girl and her family

 

Look... in their eyes you did everything wrong. You did not have a friendly beginning, selecting to spend quite a bit of time in private as opposed to public with friends. That is very taboo. During this, there shouldn't be any PDA or private meetings. If you don't adhere to that, they will consider you EXTREMELY arrogant.

 

You jumped right to private, but not in a discrete way... then when it came down to meeting and introducing yourself formally to her parents... you went through her.

 

You see... unlike in America when you court an Asian girl, you court her entire family. Instead it seems that your girlfriend is Westernized, but her family is not... and because of that you insulted every aspect of tradition and expectation in their eyes....

 

I'm sorry to be straight forward, but part of your approach to this entire relationship seems very disrespectful. At the same time, she is not a prisoner in her own home. She is being EXTREMELY disrespectful to her parents and, in the eyes of her entire family, has dishonored her family by engaging in such a blatantly indiscreet romantic relationship...

[creighton0123]

Really sorry to hear about your situation. I think you need to speak to your girlfriend seriously about the future.

If you are serious about moving there,tell her, and keep applying for jobs there. Once you have one, and you can afford to rent a place, your girlfriend will have to meet you the rest of the way.

The family's criteria are impossible. But, if your girlfriend is serious, she will have to put her foot down. If you have a house there, (even if it is rented) and a job, then that is proof that you can provide for her. The rest will be up to her.

((hugs))

 

Uhh... the family's criteria are not impossible. It's what they expect before they agree to the marriage of her daughter and this person they don't know.

 

Putting her foot down if he doesn't wisen up and start over in a very traditional way means her losing her entire family if she decides to select him at this point in time.

[creighton0123]

Im pretty sure that her parents are making these rules on you just to keep you away from her. They have no intention of letting her staying with you no matter what they make you do. if you came up with the money and actually bought the house out there, they would say something like "you bought that house too fast, you must be a drug dealer, you have to prove yourself to us some other way" They wont accept you no matter what. Heres the real problem, you are willing to give up america for her, but shes not willing to give up china for you, I think your decision is right there. She cant be without her family, I say it will hurt badly, but you have to let this one go.

 

I don't think they're making up these "rules". He violated every known concept of accepted, traditional Chinese courtship... In doing so, he disrespected her family and she dishonored her family. That's kind of how it works...

[hoping2heal]

Hi. Going to be a lengthy post, but I hope someone reads everything and can give me a little advice....I'm american, live in the usa. My girlfriend is chinese and lives in China. We met 2 years ago, online, and started a relationship with each other around 6 months ago. We finally met in person, 2 months ago when I travelled to China to meet her. I spent 2 months there with her and she spent every single day and night with me. My last day there was extremely heartbreaking for the both of us, as my plane left at 8am, we didn't have much time that morning for anything, except a quick breakfast and a very tearful good bye.

The problem lies within her family. They hate me, they don't accept me, and they don't think our relationship is real. She tried to set a meeting with all of us while I was there, but they just flat out refused to meet me. She even had to stay with me in secrecy. They didn't know until the final week that she was infact staying with me the entire time.

Now that I am back home(been home for 10 days now)things are progressively getting worse, day by day. I am willing to even relocate there, leave everything I have here and my family, just to save our relationship. But it's not that easy. The only way her family will even try to accept me, is if I can buy a house there, and only if I can pay all of the money at one time. And i just do not have that kind of money, can't even make that in a year, unless I hit the lottery.

There mere thought of breaking up just completely crushes my spirit, and we cry everytime we talk about it or see each other on webcam now. And today, she tells me they don't want her talking to me so much, that her mother is going to sleep with her, so I can't call her. I always wake her every morning and listen to her sleep, call her at night when she goes to bed. They are trying to take her phone and her computer away, and her brother even took the key to her bedroom. Oh, and by the way, she's 22 years old!!! A prisoner in her home, and she's so afraid of leaving, she worries a lot about what her family thinks of her, and does not want to disappoint them.

I tried to convince her to come here, even if it's only for a short time, couple of months, but she can't, because of her family. I fear that our days are numbered unless some miracle occurs. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking, and it's making us argue a little, but we are really so so so much in love, and I have no doubt we belong together. I believe in that.

Any advice at all, would be greatly appreciated. Im 30 years old btw. I fell in love with a girl, losing her fast and feel completely lost without her.

 

This is such a difficult situation. Firstly, control is the cornerstone of abuse. There are parents of all backgrounds that abuse their adult children with attempts at infantizing them, controlling them, and severe manipulation. This behavior is typically masked under the word tradition and culture but also is labelled love for my children and I just want whats best for them..yeah.

 

She does not appear to me to be in a position to stand up to her family and unfortunately I am sure they are just continuing their cycle of BS thinking it is right. Abuse is wrong wether it comes from your spouse, your neighbor, or your mother..period. Continuing to call these things culture and tradition just masks abuse and that makes me sick.

[folieadeux]

Without knowing a hell of a lot about Chinese culture; it unfortunately sounds like you went against most of what was expected to be done. In fact, you both did. Even if you were born and raised in the same country, I don't know too many people whose family/friends would take kindly to their loved one disappearing for months on end. From what you posted, it sounded like that's exactly what happened when she lived with you for your stay there and didn't tell anyone until the last week. That wouldn't fly in too many instances that I know of.

 

I think you first need to educate yourself about her family dynamic and what is expected in her culture if you want half a chance of this ever working out. While I agree that you're both adults free to do as you please, you also have to take into consideration the bigger picture. This relationship started off on the wrong foot in their eyes, and I don't know if that's something that is redeemable to them, no matter how many houses you buy nor how quickly you're able to do so.

[fadingfast]

I can tell you that what her family is expecting of you is a very real expectation from traditional Eastern families.

 

Aerogurl wrote "Get her out of there is my only advice to save this relationship. Is there a way she can stay with you and go to university here in the States for a bit? I mean pretty much anything to get out of that situation with her family."

 

Madjac wrote "Honestly do you think its more the fact that you are an American rather than what you can provide for her? I know a lot of other cultures dont accept us Americans "

 

Don't confuse her stress and anxiety over not being with you with feelings of oppression from her family. Expectations when it comes to daughters and marriage are significant with non-Westernized Chinese families.

 

They expect that in approving of their daughter's marriage, not only will the daughter be financially secure, but so will grandchildren and grandparents.

 

Given your description, you haven't adhered at all to their customs, which her parents can interpret as being either very disrespectful or a sign of your ignorance/ineptitude.

 

They expect the following:

1. You learn Chinese

2. You become a Chinese citizen

3. You buy a house

4. You go through the entire traditional courtship process:

- Letter + gifts to parents expressing interest

- Gift letter describing the value of each gift

- A job with a certain level of income of value to the girl and her family

 

Look... in their eyes you did everything wrong. You did not have a friendly beginning, selecting to spend quite a bit of time in private as opposed to public with friends. That is very taboo. During this, there shouldn't be any PDA or private meetings. If you don't adhere to that, they will consider you EXTREMELY arrogant.

 

You jumped right to private, but not in a discrete way... then when it came down to meeting and introducing yourself formally to her parents... you went through her.

 

You see... unlike in America when you court an Asian girl, you court her entire family. Instead it seems that your girlfriend is Westernized, but her family is not... and because of that you insulted every aspect of tradition and expectation in their eyes....

 

I'm sorry to be straight forward, but part of your approach to this entire relationship seems very disrespectful. At the same time, she is not a prisoner in her own home. She is being EXTREMELY disrespectful to her parents and, in the eyes of her entire family, has dishonored her family by engaging in such a blatantly indiscreet romantic relationship...

 

Hi, I appreciate your feedback. I'm well aware of everything you mentioned, you are not telling me anything new. Like I stated earlier, her and I both knew what we were getting into. She has reminded me plenty of times before of how difficult it will be, especially for me if I decide to live there. Her concern has always been my happiness...will I be happy there, will I leave if things get too tough.

 

Maybe I broke some traditions, and so did she, but times have indeed changed. I've been communicating directly with people in China for 3 years, and they are some of the most rebellious people I have met. They are eager for a change and to get out from under that rock called "tradition".

But she does have very strong family ties, and is the only daughter, so I can at least understand a little about where they are coming from. But it is a form of oppression as well though. She's "traditionally oppressed" if you will. But if we both know what we want, and have made it this far, giving up for the sake of tradition is not an option.

 

As far as going through her to try to meet her family, well what else was there to do? They knew about me before I went there, they knew she talked to me everyday, they knew I gave her a wake up call every morning, they knew i was coming to see her. I told her I wanted to take her family out for dinner, they refused. Tradition or not, you gotta give a guy some kind of leeway. Had I been a Chinese guy, would they refuse a dinner to meet me? And by the way, that invitation to dinner was before they even knew we were staying together.

 

And to clarify a few points:

1. "You learn Chinese"-I've been studying Mandarin for over a year, and continuing to do so.

2. "You become a Chinese Citizen"-Her and I have had this discussion, and we will deal with it if we get that far. There are other hurdles first.

3. "You buy a house"-Should be #1 in their opinion, but something I would eventually do, and seems to be the main problem. Get a house, you get our daughter...if I can rent a house, have a nice stable job, and treat her well, I don't see the problem.

4. "You go through the entire traditional courtship process:

- Letter + gifts to parents expressing interest

- Gift letter describing the value of each gift

- A job with a certain level of income of value to the girl and her family"-I bought gifts for them before I left, and actually spent more than some people would have. But refusing to meet me, she was the one who had to give them the gifts, but she did explain the value of each. As far as the job goes, well I'm working on it. Everything I've done thus far should at least be deserving of a meeting with the family.

 

I'm not trying to "westernize" her, or take her away from her family. My intentions of bringing her here were only for a short time, to make things a little easier on us, because we would be together at least. But the guilt trip she's getting from her family at the mere mention of me, is making that rather difficult. If they see it as being dishonorable, and me as being arrogant, then they should talk to her friends. I met many of her friends while being there, I even met a cousin, and they all approve of me. She's wanting a little freedom from all of that, and who wouldn't...her mother is sleeping with her so that I won't call her, they tried to take her phone and computer, and her brother took the key to her bedroom. You can't justify that with tradition or culture, it's ignorance and trying to control the outcome of her life.

 

I don't know what's going to happen next, good or bad....I just know it's a heart breaking situation to be in, but it's because of her that I'm still hanging in there, and I'm deeply touched that she is continuing to do the same for us...hardly dishonorable or disrespectful in my opinion.

[creighton0123]

"Had I been a Chinese guy, would they refuse a dinner to meet me? And by the way, that invitation to dinner was before they even knew we were staying together."

 

I have a hunch that had you been a Chinese man, even if you were extremely Westernized you would have adhered to some level of discretion and followed the public->private->family introduction pattern her parents expect.

 

It seems like in the eyes of her parents, who are not Westernized, they still recognize that in courting their daughter and thinking about marriage in the long run, you're not just marrying her, you're marrying all of them.

 

Your being of a foreign culture most definitely makes things more... explosive... but not out of the picture. If possible, you may have to talk to her and ask her exactly what traditions you need to follow and what you need to do to gain her parents respect again.

 

In a western sense, you've done absolutely nothing wrong. In an eastern sense, even with the gifts, you've done little right.

 

Her parents and her siblings are reacting as one would antiicpate someone from her background would react. They don't trust you.

 

I'm sorry it's so heartbreaking to you, but this is beyond the two of you. It shouldn't be, but it is, and both of you should have (and possibly still can) remedy the situation by pursuing a more conventional romance, at least from a traditional perspective.

[TokyoG33kyGal]

i don't wanna sound non-PC but i am also Asian myself (not chinese though)...but Chinese courtship is really strict. her parents are making sure that you can give their daughter a comfortable life (thus paying a house in full). i know that doesn't sound reasonable but that's the way it is with traditional Asian cultures. you said yourself that she and you knows what you're getting into, so you both should have a backup plan.

 

if she really needs to fight for this relationship then she should perhaps try to live on her own without the help of her parents so she can have her own say.

[z00m25]

i didnt read all of these posts but isnt there a way to get her out and come to you? i think it would be easier here rather than there..