He chose the addiction

[dreamingoftigers]

You shouldn't have broken NC. Counseling cannot help either one of you if you do not abide by the rules and guidelines that are set. At the end of the day, the only way things can work for you to is if you both take time out to work on yourselves. You both need space.

 

Actually I didn't find out until after that his therapist person had recommended that he contact me regarding his flight/accommodations etc. I emailed her that night about it and she confirmed it and let me know that it might open lines of communication and apologized for not getting back to me sooner.

 

So we are slowly back in contact.

[dreamingoftigers]

Time to clean up the PM box again DOT....

 

Cleared and at the ready!

 

Fire away!

[dreamingoftigers]

I just feel emotionally mixed-up today. Like I am not sure what would ever make me happy at this point. The world just seems like a bunch of mixed shades of grey.

 

On the bright side.....my kid is sure cute.

[dreamingoftigers]

You are only 28 yrs old, the world should be yours to explore, not consumed by someone who sits in a parked car potentially exposing himself to passerby all so that he can d/load free porn to jerk off too.

 

My heart hurts for you, it seriously does..

 

Is 28 still part of the exploring years?

[dreamingoftigers]

3800 posts.

 

I am not sure if this is just venting or not:

 

I don't think I want to be married anymore.

 

Especially to a sexual addict.

 

It's.....lame.

 

It's stessful and sad and .....lame.

 

I HATE it.

 

I was always so terrified of losing my family and he just acted like he couldn't care less.

 

Well, I finally got to experience what being without my family would be like.

 

It's boring. But it isn't terror all the time! It isn't brutal heart-tearing sadness! It isn't resent and anger and being put last all the time and being shamed and put down.

 

It isn't being held to some unreachable standard while being depressed and **** on all the time.

 

The financial fall-out and all of the other stuff are nothing compared to living with a miserable sexual addict that just threatens to pull the plug all of the time and makes you feel like you are crazy when you know that they are lying all the time!

 

I like being by myself. I kinda like me. I get to read, and go on LS and spend time with my daughter. I go to work, I drive around. No one ****s on me. All. Day Long. No one ****s on me and it's nice.

 

I don't sit around feeling like some useless collection of low-rated body parts. I get to go out and about and feel like a person.

 

The only time I don't is when I think of my husband. His behaviour makes me feel like I don't deserve to be treated like a person. It sucks. I don't like it.

 

It isn't worth it being married to someone that treats you like that. EVERYDAY!

 

He's not the only one that did wrong in our marriage. But really, I truly believe that he NEVER intended to get any help without being caught. He just did a bunch of cake-eating and didn't care who else suffered for it. That isn't a marriage.

 

I never want to go through all of the bad feelings that I went through for two years. I have to live with the trauma from that as it is. I don't want anymore.

 

I don't want to hear his disclosure and all of his slutty disgusting crap. I have seen and heard enough to kill 10 marriages.

 

I want to live a life where the only sexual issues I have to be worrying about are my own. I don't ever want to risk having another partner again. Given how much one human being can hurt another right to the very core, nah, it ain't worth it.

 

It's so funny that I spent so long terrified to be by myself. Now I am terrified that he's going to come back! That I might get weak or feel bad! Ugh.

 

Before I met my husband I wasn't proud of my body and every now and then I would cry and feel really insecure. But I thought that he thought I was special. And I thought he was really special.

 

Now I hate my body. I don't ever want to have sex again with anyone. I don't want anyone to ever see me naked or touch me. That's the legacy my husband left.

 

I would like it if he just went away so that I never had to deal with him or have to know anything about sexual addiction or "recovery" or check to see if I have that sick feeling in my stomach. I would just love it if it was me and my kid 100%.

 

But.... life doesn't work like that. He will be in her life, therefore at best we would be LC. Which would only make things depressing and worse. And so hard on her.

 

I hate this. I hate it. And I hate what he put us through and how he blamed me for it. And I hate how angry and pissy he would be if he knew, and how much he would whine and blameshift and try to make me feel guilty for hating all the stupid crap that he did. I know that what is coming over the next year is just going to be mounds of it. Mounds and mounds. Ugh......

 

Mounds of whining and blaming and me and a therapist having to explain to him that he isn't the only person on the planet and that maybe just maybe he had a major influence on everything that happened in this house. Maybe just maybe he was completely selfish and irresponsible to the point where I feel like the: in sickness or in health clause just doesn't cut it.

 

I feel like I was raped all of those times where he told me that he stopped and we tried to have actual intimate, connecting sex. I was the only one there for that. :sick::sick:

 

So many people want a family that loves them (especially me) and there he was throwing it away with both hands.

 

I am sick to death of being expected to be okay with any of this! Recovery experts and his selfish ass be damned! I am the only one living with this and it sucks! I am the only one deeply hurting in this marriage!

 

He doesn't have to! No one cheated on his ass....yet!

 

No, I am not going to. blah. The last thing I want to do is have sex or get involved in some kind of EA stupidity. blah.

 

I have a pretty good feeling that I have been avoiding anger for a long time and it's going to be Hell to get through.

 

Off I trudge to recovery and treatment and marital counseling to uncover the next fun layer. :mad::sick:

 

And I know that I am not a victim. I choose to be here and choose to work on this until it is the proper time and place to decide.-----

 

I just have all of these emotions running loose and nowhere to dump them.

 

I know he is sick, I know that he is in pain, I think he is actually trying. I know that I love my family. I know that we could be a really happy little family and that we both love our daughter.

 

I also know it would be easier to find someone else. But it would just mean another set of issues plus step-parenting. blah......

 

We are on the right path. I just hate having to hike it to get to the healthy family part of the map. It's tiring, it's exhausting, a lot of times it is lonely and frustrating, and sometimes I feel like giving up.

 

Paying the debt for dysfunction and family history sucks. It's gotten so high the payments hurt. I just don't want to pass the whole debt onto my daughter.

[dreamingoftigers]

As well I tend to be able to relate to so many of the OW and how they feel because I became the OW in my own marriage.

 

It even made me feel like a slut.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well needless to say he is pretty upset tonight. I can imagine how alone he feels considering I have been on the other side of it for awhile now.

 

It's sad watching it.

[TaraMaiden]

oh dot......

 

I don't know what to say to comfort you, and I would never presume to try to offer counsel.

 

It sounds puerile, and rather superficial - even facetious - but

 

meditate.

 

Take it up as a practice.

I'm serious.

It doesn't have to involve all the apparel and image of what everybody thinks of, when the word 'meditate' comes up....you know, the cross-legged, hands with thumb-index looped, incense, candle, quiet room, humming kind of thing...

 

meditation can be done, even when you're doing the washing up....

or walking in the park, or doing the laundry, or vacuuming.

 

You need to calm the thought processes, and still the babbling.

You need to be able to rest your Mind, and bring it home.

 

 

You need to give your braincells space to breathe.....

 

Jeesh, this is just too much.

 

FWIW -

 

I don't think I want to be married anymore.

 

I agree.

I don't think you should do this any more, either.

[dreamingoftigers]

oh dot......

 

I don't know what to say to comfort you, and I would never presume to try to offer counsel.

 

It sounds puerile, and rather superficial - even facetious - but

 

meditate.

 

Take it up as a practice.

I'm serious.

It doesn't have to involve all the apparel and image of what everybody thinks of, when the word 'meditate' comes up....you know, the cross-legged, hands with thumb-index looped, incense, candle, quiet room, humming kind of thing...

 

meditation can be done, even when you're doing the washing up....

or walking in the park, or doing the laundry, or vacuuming.

 

You need to calm the thought processes, and still the babbling.

You need to be able to rest your Mind, and bring it home.

 

 

You need to give your braincells space to breathe.....

 

Jeesh, this is just too much.

 

FWIW -

 

 

 

I agree.

I don't think you should do this any more, either.

 

I advise everyone to meditate all the time. I never take my own advice.

 

When I put that all out on the line I felt better after.

 

Sad though, he is making all the right steps. The addiction counselor working with him has made tremendous progress.

 

The words and actions match up.

 

My words and actions haven't been as of late. I am angry. I am embittered and avoidant.

 

I feel ..................

 

empathetic to his situation. I have had issues that other's don't understand and impulses and compulsions that have ground away my self-worth. I get it.

 

For everything that has happened we still hold something special for one another. Not saying that "he loves me and he promised he would leave his porn one day."LOL, so familiar the saying.

 

I made a promise. That promise was that I would walk with him as long as he kept moving forward. That I would do the healing separation and judge the relationship on a healthier and more even playing field in due time.

 

We have agreed to steer clear of each other's healing process. We have agreed to give each other ample space. If there wasn't an agreement, I would make ample space for myself anyways.

 

At this point there is not much him and I could do to rebuild anyways. That would have to happen down the line after we found more of our missing pieces.

 

I am so frustrated. How many damn pieces was I missing to begin with?

 

In truth, the marriage itself is more like the final piece to any of this. At this point deciding one way or another is like asking a first grader to write a graduate paper. We don't have the skills to make a decision, much less manage a marriage.

 

We need some time to get them. I hate this. I want a life, a family and a partner. Now.

 

But I guess I can start with a life and build that first. I have to stop being so negative about my own stuff and so positive about everyone else's. I don't know why I don't give my stuff the same consideration.

 

And to top it off I clogged the damn toilet! At least it wasn't with anything gross.

 

I should have been meditating the whole time and being more diligent with the positive stuff.

 

Now the treatment etc. is happening and I can't even appreciate it. So many of the women in my S-Anon group would kill to have a husband that would go to treatment. I guess being grateful is all about where you are starting from.

 

Thank you for your feedback. I generally always appreciate your postings.

 

I guess that this looks like marital Hell. Truth is marital Hell was two months ago. This is just Thursday. Things are more 'up' then they have been in two years. I think the separation will give me more time to think and have a break. I need more of one. Plus it will help me over the long-run get a picture of what divorced and married life would be like.

 

Healing Separations are well-structured for that. I would feel more at peace knowing. I hate not knowing things. Unread books drive me crazy.

[dreamingoftigers]

The biggest indicator for me was that he is standing up for himself in a healthy way.

 

And when I talk to him I don't get the sick stomach feeling anymore.

 

I just still hate this. I hate it and I am just so emotionally worn out.

 

God I have to stop looping and repeating myself.

 

Or I will end up starting a thread about asking my 38 year old teacher out that will go on for 15 pages because she's a 'nice gal' and I send her 6000 email messages.

 

I guess.....I need a break......living with this for two years is .......tiring.

[TaraMaiden]

Just a thought....

Now you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, the adrenalin rush is dying down, and you're releasing everything....

While my partner was going through his law degree, I figure, without exaggeration, we must have gone through the worst , most difficult, challenging, trying, impoverished, toughest years of our lives.

(This isn't a comparison, or a pissing contest, bytheway...I'm just saying how it was for us, in our experience.)

Then, graduation, and 1st Class honours out of the way, he began to start looking for a job, but it was half-hearted, and he became quite depressed, for a while.

If I thought I'd known 'tough' before, now it was superseded by an amount of frustration, and resentment, which I basically kept in check, because it was the only right approach at the time - so we soldiered on.

 

Then - it happened. He found a great job to apply for, submitted his CV and after a lengthy 1-2 interviewing process - he was offered the job. This has turned our life completely around.

That very day, the day he was advised he HAD the job - we had the biggest, screaming, stuff-throwing row we'd had in as long as I can remember.

I mean, it was loud - and really wild - but I now know, it was a release, a vent, a letting-go of everything we'd been through in 4+ years.

 

I'm just wondering if your feeling "angry bitter and avoidant", isn't coincidental with his determined effort and progress in therapy?

 

Does that make sense....?

As he's coming up to a better level, are you not just releasing your energy a bit...?

 

I dunno why....just a thought....

 

Hugs, always.....

[change]

I totally understand where you're coming from, especially the underlined parts.. I have a lot of the same issues when dealing with my H, who had a painkiller addiction. Sometimes I think that I am intolerable of any crap he puts my way because I'm entitled to being pissed at him. Sometimes I feel like he caused so much hurt and damage with his lies and actions that I don't look at him the same way I did before. Sometimes I feel like he is not sorry enough or doesn't regret it enough or didn't "suffer" enough like I did. I know these are not healthy thoughts, but I acknowledge them and I think that is the best thing you can do.

 

 

 

 

 

Your husband chose you. He married you, had a child with you. He chose his addiction before you, not the other women. You have to remember that. He was powerless over it. But now he is choosing to get help for the sake of his marriage. I hope you reach some clarity on these issues because you do not deserve to feel like you are not special. I'm not sure about for SA men, but I do think that there are men out there who get something from their wives that they couldn't just replace with another woman, that sex with someone you love is a lot more than just getting off, it is fullfilling an emotional need. Unless my H is placating me . Which could be, who knows what's really in people's hearts.

 

I have been told that I am immature and selfish for wanting to separate from my H after he got off the pills and became a "better husband", so I'm sure you will hear that too. Maybe not, but no one will ever know what you went through, and I think even if he does fully go through recovery, if it is not working for you, then you would have every right in my eyes to end it, FWIW. I often feel like why do things have to be so hard? I know relationships are work ,but loving someone should never be this hard. It is exhausting and emotionally draining and I just want someone who would be easy... lol, I know nothing is easy, but you know what I mean... JMO though. I'm sure I will get flamed for it.

 

Sorry these replies are pretty late, I don't get a lot of computer time (How do you do it with a toddler in the house, I will never know!), but I try to keep up with your story.

 

Good luck with your H tonight. Try to be supportive and understanding. Lord knows it is hard. Just so you know there is someone else out there who understands the roller coaster you are going through and that you're not crazy for having these feelings. Own them and understand where they are coming from, which I think you do a pretty good job of already. It helps to get it out here in writing, I'm sure!

 

I'm so sorry for both you and DOT.

 

I'm coming to this from the other side. I read your words and many of them are as if my wife wrote them.

 

I wasn't an addict. I was deeply depressed for reasons that I can't post here -- it would be too easy for someone to figure out who this is -- for the last three years of our almost seven years together. In that depression, I became selfish and angry and sexually distant. I always loved her desperately. I always found her attractive. But I failed to show that to her.

 

I thought I was at least minorly supportive. I was there through some big things in her life over the last couple years. Totally there for her. But given the degree to which she has to be a rock for me, I understand and accept that it wasn't enough.

 

I never imagined the damage I'd done to her. It makes me physically sick every moment I think about it.

 

I'm in treatment for my depression now and have been for the last month since she left. It was the first phone call I made the morning after she left.

 

We're in the middle of what I believe to be a "healing separation," too, although she's never seen the article. She doesn't know what she wants. She wants all of the pressure off of her to decide on whether we'll try it again, stay married, or just be very close friends. No MC. Right now, almost NC. She's started dating other people. She's said that love shouldn't be so hard. That it's too little, too late. That I can show my love by waiting for her and hoping she comes back. That she doesn't miss me. That she's incredibly happy. That she isn't attracted to me. So many things.

 

I deserve them all.

 

She's also said that she's thought of coming home, but she doesn't know anymore if she wants to do it for her or for me. She can't separate our needs out. She needs space and distance.

 

I've told her how incredibly sorry I am, and I am trying through actions to show her that I am correcting my depression and putting permanent checks/balances in to make sure I am not a "risk" to come back to...

 

But since she seems to only partially hear that, and certainly doesn't seem to believe it with her heart yet, I can only apologize to both of you on behalf of your spouses.

 

Neither of you deserve to feel the way you feel about your marriages. About having to wait through so much bull**** to have a "better husband." My wife shouldn't have had to wait either.

[dreamingoftigers]

Just a thought....

Now you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, the adrenalin rush is dying down, and you're releasing everything....

While my partner was going through his law degree, I figure, without exaggeration, we must have gone through the worst , most difficult, challenging, trying, impoverished, toughest years of our lives.

(This isn't a comparison, or a pissing contest, bytheway...I'm just saying how it was for us, in our experience.)

Then, graduation, and 1st Class honours out of the way, he began to start looking for a job, but it was half-hearted, and he became quite depressed, for a while.

If I thought I'd known 'tough' before, now it was superseded by an amount of frustration, and resentment, which I basically kept in check, because it was the only right approach at the time - so we soldiered on.

 

Then - it happened. He found a great job to apply for, submitted his CV and after a lengthy 1-2 interviewing process - he was offered the job. This has turned our life completely around.

That very day, the day he was advised he HAD the job - we had the biggest, screaming, stuff-throwing row we'd had in as long as I can remember.

I mean, it was loud - and really wild - but I now know, it was a release, a vent, a letting-go of everything we'd been through in 4+ years.

 

I'm just wondering if your feeling "angry bitter and avoidant", isn't coincidental with his determined effort and progress in therapy?

 

Does that make sense....?

As he's coming up to a better level, are you not just releasing your energy a bit...?

 

I dunno why....just a thought....

 

Hugs, always.....

 

I know that that has a lot to do with it.

 

(annoyed my h pointed out my tendency to use 'that that' when I write. He does know me well.)

 

You have pretty much exactly nailed it. And pretty much why so many recovering addict's spouses leave them when they start and finish recovery.

 

I wrote before that I spent so long picking up the pieces that I forgot what the bigger picture actually looks like.

 

As well when you read about couple dynamics, you see sort if a seesaw effect: if one is really sexual and the other isn't as sexual then one starts pushing fit more making the other want even less etc etc. But if the one all of a sudden starts pushing for more sex, the other one all of a sudden resents it and backs off. Just stuff like that.

 

Well for the past two years I have been very polarized on worked on ourselves and 'save the family.' practically polarized against the world. Tiiiiiiiiringgggg. Blah.

 

And for so long it felt like wasted energy. Then finally he got the boot and I started to be really offended with him for trusting and being bull****ted to for so long. Plus he hit every major pain-causing insecurity I ever had all in one night. The pain was just horrible. It helped me to understand some stuff, but still......

 

It really put me in a place where I not only don't feel as much for having a family.... At all. Truly it bothers me to say it, but I just kind of have all of these loose end feelings that I am sure only going through this can produce and magnify.

 

I have just been so emotionally, physically and psychologically worn out (not to mention financially) by all of this stupid crap. I have been so burnt out that I haven't been able to begin to focus on my business and financial goals or school or even decorating my kid's room beyond the asking stage.

 

And I just resent so much the treatment he is going for and how ungrateful he acted about it at first. Here I am sitting at home full-time, pulling what is left our of business and trying to be a good mom etc and he gets to have a paid vacation in Victoria no less after having taken a few 'mini vacations' and leaving me stuck before. I know intellectually that this is the right way and now he is showing some appreciation for it. But I have wanted a break and/or vacation for years. Plus we never even went on a real honeymoon. Not to mention our honeymoon was when the sex started flagging. Seriously triggered by the wedding cake he was I guess.

 

There is a three pages list of serious marital grievances and incidents sitting in our room. It hasn't even been updated since Feb.

 

Now I see the bigger picture and how much work there would need to be done in order to fix the damn thing...

 

Considering how long it took my dipweed husband to even start to actually admit and deal with the problem, I can't imagine how many sets of dentures I will have gone through before he is ready to start the marriage process.

 

So the seesaw tips the other way. I feel blankness and tiredness and very little about having this family. I just want my own space. Blah....

 

Three months ago it was me sobbing on washroom floors that I just wanted my family.

 

I have also cone down with a bit of a cold which makes me think the my feelings are just itching every which way to come out.

 

And if course the seesaw tipped on now he has decided to figure out that his family is something worth fighting for.

 

In fact I should be posting Great Tirades about how it seems that my husband is slowly coming back from the dead. How he bought mr a nice present (Bill Bryson's At Home which I really wanted). How he shipped it to me with a card and a blue rose underneath the cover.

 

When I was little I read a story about blue roses when I was younger. I told myself (about 10 years old) that the first man that gave me a blue rose I would marry.

 

I thought that my ex was 'the one' and I once gave him a blue and white rose in such a way that I thought he would have the sense to give me them back. He didn't. He also took off six weeks before we were supposed to be married.

 

I didn't tell about the Blue Roses to my guys or anything. I figured that it would come along sooner or later. My h did know that there was a flower involved. He said he would buy a different flower each week from a shop until he got it right. Then someone who knew about the rose story told him. He came through.

 

Blue roses were a part of our wedding, he would bring me one every now and again to remind me. This is his way of reminding me again.

 

Perhaps I should have stipulated to the Blue Rose Gods that it was to be a happy marriage.....

[change]

You have pretty much exactly nailed it. And pretty much why so many recovering addict's spouses leave them when they start and finish recovery.

 

I still don't get this. Can someone on the leaving side of things help me to understand?

 

I don't expect my wife to forgive me overnight or forget. Far from it. If I could live out the rest of my life making my mistakes up to her every single day, I would only start to feel at peace.

 

But why is it that my seeking treatment for my depression seems to both make her consider coming back and run further away?

 

She always wanted me to change. Now, I'm changing in some huge ways. And despite seeing a glimmer of a possible future again, instead of waiting a month or two more to see what happens, she's dating other people during our trial separation. I don't get it at all.

 

When she left, she asked me to promise to take care of myself and to not attempt suicide. My response -- pulling myself together and attempting to pursue her -- really shocked her. I thought it was the reason she was considering coming back. Now I'm starting to wonder if she wouldn't have been more likely to come back if I had done something stupid and drastic, like attempted suicide. (I'm not saying that I'm considering it; I'm just confused by her reaction to what are very positive steps.)

[dreamingoftigers]

I still don't get this. Can someone on the leaving side of things help me to understand?

 

I don't expect my wife to forgive me overnight or forget. Far from it. If I could live out the rest of my life making my mistakes up to her every single day, I would only start to feel at peace.

 

But why is it that my seeking treatment for my depression seems to both make her consider coming back and run further away?

 

She always wanted me to change. Now, I'm changing in some huge ways. And despite seeing a glimmer of a possible future again, instead of waiting a month or two more to see what happens, she's dating other people during our trial separation. I don't get it at all.

 

When she left, she asked me to promise to take care of myself and to not attempt suicide. My response -- pulling myself together and attempting to pursue her -- really shocked her. I thought it was the reason she was considering coming back. Now I'm starting to wonder if she wouldn't have been more likely to come back if I had done something stupid and drastic, like attempted suicide. (I'm not saying that I'm considering it; I'm just confused by her reaction to what are very positive steps.)

 

We are so drained, and so in pain and isolated that we'd do anything to fill the void.

 

Especially if you have been refusing her sexually. I can pretty much tell you the deal there, she may be with someone, or she might just come close and then realize fairly quickly that it isn't working and isn't going to fill the void. Don't take it personally at all.

 

She isn't in any kind of emotional position to properly date. The best she will have at this point is a rebound.

 

I will tell you what: 2 years of looking at couples in love and holding hands made me feel like I was starving to death. I would have given anything to have those feelings.

 

It didn't come. I got hit with more torpedoes and he just didn't give a ****.

 

Then when he went to treatment, there is almost this sense of expectation that the whole world should be congratulating him and be on his side. In a sense, yes. But he hasn't validated a damn thing that I went through. He has conditioned for me two years to believe that I wasn't worth his time.

 

That conditioning takes time to undo and it requires the spouse to do some heavy soul-searching. You just get worn-out from soul searching to deal with this stuff for so long. It just hurts to the point where you can't give a ****.

Right now you are expecting a healthy response from her when she is still living out your unhealthy dynamic. You just haven't given her enough healthy to respond to yet.

 

As well with my H, I get apologies and "thanks for believing in me" but he does not believe in me. Now that he is getting all of his pieces in order, he isn't even acknowledging how shattered I am (and really he can't right now, he just isn't there yet). But it is still a piss off.

 

I guess the short answer is: She resents you for taking so long. Why did she have to go through this for so long?

 

And now that she has been through it and experiences having that source of pain out of her life for a bit, she can relax and enjoy herself. I find that I like my self time. If my stupid husband went to recovery earlier, I wouldn't have had my self time and we could have become more independent through recovery and counseling. But he chose otherwise and now I see my self-time as fun and him as a trigger to pain and misery and self-loathing. He should have been smart enough to pick growing together through this. But he had to have it all his way.

I didn't exist in this relationship for 2 years and now after hitting a rock bottom of epic preportions, he thinks "everything's gonna be okay?" I am not okay. I don't get a month-long paid vacation to the ocean. The only thing okay about it is that I get to pick what I want without being guilted or torpedoed or ignored all the bloody time.

Don't think that I am targeting you my man, in fact I commend you.

 

There is also going to be a little part of her that just wants you to experience some of her suffering. Anger and resent have entered the building for now. She probably didn't know they were coming (I didn't). They tend not to call before they show up.

 

What you can do is go with a 180 and just keep changing and be positive. If she says back off, then back off. She will reach out eventually. I guarantee that she will reach out in that 3 months.

 

Another major thing is that she is scared ****less to take another risk on you. Stay strong, build yourself up, lose the rigid thinking (depression) and keep to your changes. You have the advantage of a special history with her to keep you going.

 

My H and I had a special history too. He was smart to send the package to remind me of it. It pierced a little hole in the wall. Little hole.

 

I used to hold that history up as a template for myself to keep myself inspired until I had to kick him out last time.

 

The hurt he caused me that night alone pushed me to a completely different place. It was past the sobbing and breaking down. It threw walls up and hardened my heart. I feel blank alot of times and can't often make sense of what I feel anymore. I know that EMDR therapy will help though. Sorry, rambling.... Willing to chat much more on this and give you pointers.

[change]

We are so drained, and so in pain and isolated that we'd do anything to fill the void.

 

Especially if you have been refusing her sexually. I can pretty much tell you the deal there, she may be with someone, or she might just come close and then realize fairly quickly that it isn't working and isn't going to fill the void. Don't take it personally at all.

 

That sounds entirely correct. She says she's doing it to work on her trust issues and setting boundaries, but now that I'm out of the picture entirely since we've formally started the separation, it seems like she IS dating to see if she can replace me. (She had previously said otherwise.) I know that she feels a void there and a lack of attractiveness. It does make sense that she would try to fill that.

 

She isn't in any kind of emotional position to properly date. The best she will have at this point is a rebound.

 

This seems hopeful for reconciliation.

 

She just keeps telling me how happy she is though. And she's so amazingly confident suddenly. (I really am happy that she has that back. And I'm overjoyed that she's happy. My feelings are obviously conflicted.) Our friends are even picking up on the change in her energy. She told me at one point that she'd already mourned the relationship and was ready to date because she was past it -- essentially that we are in different places in the process. This conflicts with the desire for marriage counseling up until 1.5 weeks ago, however, and other behaviors I've witnessed.

 

On the other hand, I can't imagine that someone who cries and expresses any desire to come home -- or who wants to remain close friends -- has washed away feelings enough to start over fresh with someone else in a healthy way. I suppose that's what you're getting at here when you mentioned a rebound relationship?

 

Sometimes I simply assume that the moment someone touches her in an affectionate way that she's attracted to, she'll never want to come back again.

 

I will tell you what: 2 years of looking at couples in love and holding hands made me feel like I was starving to death. I would have given anything to have those feelings.

 

It didn't come. I got hit with more torpedoes and he just didn't give a ****.

 

I think she feels that way, too. We still held hands. We still went on vacations. We still did couple things. I wish to God that I had been clearer on exactly how she was feeling. May my eyes and ears never be closed enough that I miss those signals ever again.

 

Then when he went to treatment, there is almost this sense of expectation that the whole world should be congratulating him and be on his side. In a sense, yes. But he hasn't validated a damn thing that I went through. He has conditioned for me two years to believe that I wasn't worth his time.

 

That conditioning takes time to undo and it requires the spouse to do some heavy soul-searching. You just get worn-out from soul searching to deal with this stuff for so long. It just hurts to the point where you can't give a ****.

 

Yes. And I probably cemented this idea in the beginning when I said that I couldn't believe that I could see the solutions to the problems just as the situation moved to a point of being "too little, too late." I've tried to validate her hurt and anger and pain. I clearly need to continue to do so.

 

That soul-searching requires space and distance, I would think. But when you feel so unwanted for so long, I can't imagine that LC/NC is the way to go either, despite the suggestions on the boards. Wouldn't that further cement to you that your husband still didn't give a rat's ***? Or would you want that space from him?

 

Right now you are expecting a healthy response from her when she is still living out your unhealthy dynamic. You just haven't given her enough healthy to respond to yet.

 

I thought about this just today. She's responding to the past and I'm expecting her to respond to the now/future. Obviously there's some major catching up that I need to give her time to do. I'm not sure how to show her the healthy when we have almost no contact.

 

As well with my H, I get apologies and "thanks for believing in me" but he does not believe in me. Now that he is getting all of his pieces in order, he isn't even acknowledging how shattered I am (and really he can't right now, he just isn't there yet). But it is still a piss off.

 

I guess the short answer is: She resents you for taking so long. Why did she have to go through this for so long?

 

She asked that exact question of me. I don't have a good answer. I certainly don't have a forgivable answer. I needed to hit rock bottom. I cared enough about her that losing her was rock bottom.

 

She is deeply resentful and has no trust in my words for any reason. I asked her what it would take for her to trust me again, what the first things she would need to see would be; she answered that she didn't know.

 

And now that she has been through it and experiences having that source of pain out of her life for a bit, she can relax and enjoy herself. I find that I like my self time. If my stupid husband went to recovery earlier, I wouldn't have had my self time and we could have become more independent through recovery and counseling. But he chose otherwise and now I see my self-time as fun and him as a trigger to pain and misery and self-loathing. He should have been smart enough to pick growing together through this. But he had to have it all his way.

 

Your sentiments about things being his way mirror my wife's exactly. I suppose this is the explanation I was looking for in her extreme happiness coupled with confusion about what the future holds for us.

 

I want to assist with the process of uncoupling ME from her feeling pain and self-loathing. I don't have a clue about how to do this. Do you know what you'd need from your husband to do this? Is this another space and time issue?

 

Given our limited contact within the terms of our separation, all I can think is to be happy and optimistic and confident whenever she sees or talks to me, even if I'm feeling the opposite at the time.

I didn't exist in this relationship for 2 years and now after hitting a rock bottom of epic preportions, he thinks "everything's gonna be okay?" I am not okay. I don't get a month-long paid vacation to the ocean. The only thing okay about it is that I get to pick what I want without being guilted or torpedoed or ignored all the bloody time.

 

Don't think that I am targeting you my man, in fact I commend you.

 

I don't think that at all. This is perhaps the most insightful response I've received to the situation from anyone, online or offline. I greatly appreciate the pain that you're dredging up in order to help me better understand my situation. And I'm incredibly sorry for your experiences that allow you to understand what my wife is similarly going through.

 

This is all particularly helpful as I begin to experience anger that she holds all the cards, has cut off most of our communication, is dating other people, and has left me financially in the lurch. I have A LOT of people giving me feedback that I need to deliver an ultimatum that she stop seeing other people or I walk. It seems like an awful approach to me, given my understanding of how this all went so wrong, but I am feeling increasingly like her backup plan -- and given my prior history of relationships in which I was cheated on, it's started to be triggering.

 

I'm doing my very best so far to say nothing, smile and let her do whatever she needs to do in order to heal.

 

There is also going to be a little part of her that just wants you to experience some of her suffering. Anger and resent have entered the building for now. She probably didn't know they were coming (I didn't). They tend not to call before they show up.

 

This could explain why she told me that she had expected to want me to pursue her and win her back when she left. Then she felt the freedom and other unexpected emotions... and we're here now.

 

What you can do is go with a 180 and just keep changing and be positive. If she says back off, then back off. She will reach out eventually. I guarantee that she will reach out in that 3 months.

 

My assumption up until the radio silence recently has been that we would work on a friendship and she would start to believe the changes in her heart -- and come around. Now I'm terrified that she won't contact me for the entire three months or that she'll enter into another relationship before she does so in order to insulate herself from me.

 

Right now, after doing some pursuing which she gave positive feedback to, she's asked me to back off completely. I've complied. We went from talking regularly and MC to almost no contact at all over the last week.

Another major thing is that she is scared ****less to take another risk on you. Stay strong, build yourself up, lose the rigid thinking (depression) and keep to your changes. You have the advantage of a special history with her to keep you going.

 

She told me that she wants to see who else is out there because it is less scary than being with me. She says that I'm too risky. She doesn't know if she's will to accept the risk again.

 

I still can't believe how similar your sentiments are to hers. Then again, I suppose human behavior is all fairly predictable. I only wish we could use that predictability to avert pain and stop harming each other.

 

My H and I had a special history too. He was smart to send the package to remind me of it. It pierced a little hole in the wall. Little hole.

 

I did that a week after she left. Now she's told me to back off, though, so I'm on the fence about continuing those small things. She told me not to do anything I wouldn't do for a friend. That leaves little latitude for romantic gestures.

 

I don't know that this is relevant here, but we don't have children. I would never want to put a child in the middle of all of this; I only bring it up to say that when you're in your mid-twenties and you have no children, I wonder if the specialness of our relationship will be enough to bring her back to the table over someone new and exciting.

 

I used to hold that history up as a template for myself to keep myself inspired until I had to kick him out last time.

 

My spouse would call this her process of "forcing herself to lose hope in change" and to lose attraction to me so she'd stop feeling rejected.

 

The hurt he caused me that night alone pushed me to a completely different place. It was past the sobbing and breaking down. It threw walls up and hardened my heart. I feel blank alot of times and can't often make sense of what I feel anymore. I know that EMDR therapy will help though. Sorry, rambling.... Willing to chat much more on this and give you pointers.

 

Not rambling in the slightest. I hope my responses back were not either.

 

You aren't by any chance also the product of an alcoholic family or a family with addiction problems? My spouse has had damaging interactions with addicts in the past within family. I don't know why that piece seems to matter to me right now, but it came to mind as another element of the puzzle (hence my curiosity).

 

I... There were very, very understandable reasons for my depression that she was fully aware of and that I fully disclosed. I never could have imagined and didn't see the horrific effect it was having on her. I don't know how or when I'll ever forgive myself. I wonder how she will, either.

 

Any pointers, any signposts, any guidance, anything at all is incredibly helpful, DOT.

 

I've been riding blind. My IC says that the "writing is on the wall" and I should insulate myself from her. I disagreed heartily with him. My family says the same thing. Our friends seem to think I should move on. No one seems ok with me accepting more responsibility in the situation than 50/50, except for my wife (and myself). And I can't talk to her family anymore because she has requested that I not contact them for now. (We have a good relationship.)

 

No one seems to get why I'm trying to ride this out. And no one seems to share my hope that she may yet decide to come home.

 

I've been flayed by family for giving her back the house this month and moving out. But I don't feel like addiction/depression/abandonment issues are the typical ones that lead to divorce. Typical actions advised in other divorce situations don't seem geared to this.

 

I'll stop rambling.

 

Again, thank you. I'm looking forward to any other information or insight you're willing to offer.

 

And I hope most sincerely that you reach a point of healing yourself. Your husband doesn't deserve you, just as I don't deserve my wife.

[change]

I feel like this conversation should be moved to one of my threads. I don't want to accidentally thread jack you!

[change]

DOT:

 

I cross-posted my response to my thread on abandonment so that I wouldn't take over your thread here.

[dreamingoftigers]

I feel like this conversation should be moved to one of my threads. I don't want to accidentally thread jack you!

 

Fear not, I love a good thread-jack!

 

I do them a lot. Will respond when I am feeling a little better. Feeling the worst that I have in awhile. Quite sick.

[change]

I hope you feel better soon, DOT! Drink lots of tea and get some rest! You deserve it.

 

 

 

In terms of thread-jacking... I'll continue our conversation here with a brief update.

 

We've clearly entered some new phase. She is cold, distant, has no interest in talking outside of "business matters" -- and will give out no personal details. "How was your week?" "Really great." "What did you do?" "I was busy."

 

It's so strange to think that a week ago we were going out for dinner and marriage counseling. I've never ever seen her be so cold. She's so happy with our friends and in her public life away from me... flaunting it, almost... and the sudden chill is a lot for me to handle. There's no transparency. No communication.

 

She said she needed distance and space. This is not what I was expecting at all. The only thing I know is that she hasn't made a decision about 'us' because she would have told me.

[change]

There is also going to be a little part of her that just wants you to experience some of her suffering. Anger and resent have entered the building for now. She probably didn't know they were coming (I didn't). They tend not to call before they show up.

 

What you can do is go with a 180 and just keep changing and be positive. If she says back off, then back off. She will reach out eventually. I guarantee that she will reach out in that 3 months.

 

When you're up to it, I have a question for you on the above, DOT.

 

She's gone almost NC and very, very cold. She's pretty well shut me out of her life, and it was only two weeks ago that we were doing well and going to MC. Things really seemed to be looking up.

 

She's suddenly going full force at experiencing being "alone and single." New facebook status, photos of our wedding gone. She's also telling anyone that will listen how happy she is living just for herself and no one else.

 

One of our mutual friends said that my wife's behavior is indicative of her anger and confusion toward me -- basically that some of what she's doing is lashing out. She didn't think it was over yet, just that my wife isn't sure what she wants.

 

Is this what you meant by the anger and resentment setting in?

 

It's been such a sudden change from what I've seen on my end. I'm trying to ride it out, not take it personally, and give her space/distance. I'm trying to trust that she'd be phoning me up to tell me if it was OVER and she wasn't still trying to figure out what she wants. But my family is very angry with her and my IC basically said she was just trying to use me (no idea why) and that I was an idiot for not seeing that the "writing was on the wall." I'm getting lots of advice that her behavior is not indicative of someone that is going to come around -- although she weren't present for the last month of our conversations. If I were on the outside looking in, I'm sure I'd say the same thing, too. And I'm sure I'd express confusion about why she asked for a three month grace period to make a decision as well. I'm deeply in it, and I'm certainly confused.

 

Since you seem to be the most insightful person in this situation, I'm hoping you'll have some feedback.

[dreamingoftigers]

When you're up to it, I have a question for you on the above, DOT.

 

She's gone almost NC and very, very cold. She's pretty well shut me out of her life, and it was only two weeks ago that we were doing well and going to MC. Things really seemed to be looking up.

 

She's suddenly going full force at experiencing being "alone and single." New facebook status, photos of our wedding gone. She's also telling anyone that will listen how happy she is living just for herself and no one else.

 

One of our mutual friends said that my wife's behavior is indicative of her anger and confusion toward me -- basically that some of what she's doing is lashing out. She didn't think it was over yet, just that my wife isn't sure what she wants.

 

Is this what you meant by the anger and resentment setting in?

 

Yes. And I don't know whether or not that will change. The only thing you can do at this point is 180 and completely validate any feelings she comes to you with, but don't put up with bad behaviour.

 

It's been such a sudden change from what I've seen on my end. I'm trying to ride it out, not take it personally, and give her space/distance. I'm trying to trust that she'd be phoning me up to tell me if it was OVER and she wasn't still trying to figure out what she wants. But my family is very angry with her and my IC basically said she was just trying to use me (no idea why) and that I was an idiot for not seeing that the "writing was on the wall." I'm getting lots of advice that her behavior is not indicative of someone that is going to come around -- although she weren't present for the last month of our conversations. If I were on the outside looking in, I'm sure I'd say the same thing, too. And I'm sure I'd express confusion about why she asked for a three month grace period to make a decision as well. I'm deeply in it, and I'm certainly confused.

 

Since you seem to be the most insightful person in this situation, I'm hoping you'll have some feedback.

 

Your IC can't read minds. Like I said, the only thing that you can do is 180. Look for all of the positive things you can.

 

Sorry for the short response. I am still quite ill.

[TaraMaiden]

dot, PM me if you want to.

 

(((((Hugs))))) hun.....

 

You take care of you.

 

Much love always, TM. XX

[No Name 01]

I have chosen to sign up here, after reading all of your posts in this thread. Let me start off by saying that your life is really messed up. Heres a huge problem i would like to share. Once you lose respect for someone, you just can't ever give it back. I think that at times your H hates himself for doing what he does, but is still a fool. What is the point of trying if you just get sucked right back into the same crap? Look i understand that you have no reason, or want to ever have another relationship after your H. (if you divorce). You may feel that now, but maybe not later. I can honestly say you deserve more then him. One often is guilt-ed out of a divorce. 55% of the reason he stayed with you was to not heart you. I don't ever recommend divorce. But sometimes you have to. A marriage is a bond between a man and a women. And from what i can read, you are not caring a bond, and he fails to try and put it together. No one should have to keep a mirage out of guilt.

 

 

I hope the best for you and your daughter.

 

and i hope that your H can stop being a big ******bag.

[change]

Yes. And I don't know whether or not that will change. The only thing you can do at this point is 180 and completely validate any feelings she comes to you with, but don't put up with bad behaviour.

 

Your IC can't read minds. Like I said, the only thing that you can do is 180. Look for all of the positive things you can.

 

Sorry for the short response. I am still quite ill.

 

I'm so sorry to hear you're still ill. Please take the time you need to get better; there's no pressure on this end! You have enough stress in your own life.

 

Not putting up with bad behavior is a fine line. She's treating me worse than she would any friend. That's really tough. But I want to validate her need for distance and her RIGHT to be angry. She should be angry. I get it. Again, a fine, fine line.