broken down and hopeless

[ladychesterton]

So broken down and hopeless...

 

Been married 5 years, and things haven't been great. Lately, I'm past being emotional about it, but the sermon today at church (mentioned this website) made me initiate a discussion with my husband. While I feel there are so many things to work on (we share nothing except for childcare), he feels there is only ONE THING. I have to learn how to apologize to him immediately when I upset him. I have to learn how to care when he is upset, and I should have the strength to do so, no matter what I am feeling, because I have God.

 

When he confronts me with something I have done wrong, like took a mean tone of voice or looked at him unkindly, I do apologize because I have learned there's no way getting past that. The problem is that he says my apologies are not real because they don't sound sincere enough. Usually I have to repeat my apology 20 times until I get it "right," then he reluctantly agrees to forgive me. Actually, lately he refuses to even forgive me. He says he'll just wait and see if my behavior changes next time--that will mean I really meant my apology. I've asked for a few minutes to myself to pray or collect my thoughts, but he says I shouldn't need that. I should be able to apologize IMMEDIATELY no matter what I'm feeling because God forgives me no matter what.

 

I am going to be completely honest. When he tells me he didn't like my tone of voice or "my attitude" as he constantly defines, I personally believe he is using that to divert attention away from himself. I guess I don't believe he is truly hurt, and so YES, I don't really care. My apologies are forced because they ARE insincere. In my heart, I can't stand him. I don't even really like him. He refuses to allow me talk about my perspective because that's me just "making excuses" and "refusing to accept blame." I try to be honest with him and tell him that I just don't feel I done something wrong or whatnot, but he literally will tell me that he won't listen to anything I have to say accept an apology. What choice do I have at that point? I have to suck it up and fake as nice an apology as possible. "I'm really sorry I didn't say excuse me loud enough when I burped. You are right, that was not nice of me." (yes, this was a real issue this past week). I feel like I apologize ALL THE TIME. I must be this horrible, evil person, right?? I'm starting to feel that way as my heart blackens toward this man.

 

I want to do the right thing, but I don't have the emotional energy or maturity to care about this man's feelings (if that's what they truly are). I honestly am just letting him blame me for this because it's like we live on 2 planes of reality.

 

I said, "I want to care about your feelings."

 

He said, "No, you don't. You WANT to want to care about my feelings, but you don't." WTF??

 

I said, "How can you tell me what I want?" but then I finally said, "I guess you are right."

 

He's says he hopeless now too. I can't understand how a person like him (about to be a psychologist) can honestly believe that our marriage sucks ALL because of me and my inability to accept blame. I do love and care about people, and I even WANT to care about him, but I just feel this overwhelming criticism and control coming from him. I don't feel he is interested in intimacy at all, only control.

[xxoo]

I can't understand how a person like him (about to be a psychologist) can honestly believe that our marriage sucks ALL because of me and my inability to accept blame..

 

THe bolded made my jaw drop

 

Is he also expected to apologize sincerely at your whim? How is he in that regard?

 

Is this a religious thing? Do you subcribe to the "submissive wife" philosophy?

 

Is he controlling outside the apology issue? I'm wondering if the apology issue, at heart, an effort to control you. I'm mean, really, you didn't say "excuse me" loud enough? He needs to sense of humor, and a hobby other than micromanaging you

[denise_xo]

I get associations with psychopathic behaviour. There are tons of red flags on your post. I wouldn't put up with that kind of behaviour at all if I were you. The fact that you describe yourself as 'broken and hopeless' makes it sound like you shouldn't, either.

 

Have you confronted him directly about this behaviour and told him it's unacceptable? Have you discussed this with someone in real life that you trust (parents, sibling, close friend)? Will your H consider MC?

[greengoddess]

Did I read this correctly? Your church sermon mentioned loveshack.org? Now how did that enter into it?

 

I'm sorry. I think something else is going on with him and is trying to pass the blame to you. How bizarre you can not even be comfortable to burp in front of your spouse.

 

Tell him how he makes you feel. You need to be happy. You can not live broken and hopeless. Make him know you are ready to throw in the towel that you can't do this anymore. Offer him marriage counseling. Give it a try and then have the counselor help you separate if it doesn't help.

[ladychesterton]

@greengoddess: I think the pastor mentioned the site to describe how people are struggling in their marriages in many different ways. The sermon was basically about the important components of a good marriage: attention, spiritual accordance, shared recreation, physical intimacy, etc.

 

@xxoo: Yes, I do feel that he definitely believes in the submissive wife philosophy. His mother was that to the nth degree. My background is quite the opposite, yet when we first met I do believe I let him have the say in most everything probably more than I should have. Since becoming a mother and maybe realizing his imperfections more, I'm not as "submissive"(?) I guess. I just want an equal partnership, but it is difficult.

 

I guess at this point I'm just trying to care and do the right thing no matter how he treats me. It's just such a challenge when I feel so neglected in many areas of our marriage. The biggest thing that ruffles my feathers is how critical he is of me on a continual basis. I try to find my strength more in God, and not my husband's negative words, but it is so hard. My husband describes himself as having OCD tendencies. I would say he is "type A," for sure. He picks on so many little things. So many times I have said, "Please balance your negative with some positive words," but I think it is really hard for him because he grew up with an extremely critical and abusive father who only knew how to speak words of criticism. He says due to his upbringing, he can easily take criticism from others... yet, I don't truly believe this. I think deep down he is quite insecure and has trouble being criticized.

 

Just as an example, and I know this is probably a weird post all in itself... but he has never let me see him naked. He always locks the bathroom door, and the lights are always off when we are intimate. There are other things, like he hates for me to touch his face. These things, among others, have always made me feel like he holds me at a distance. I feel it is rooted somehow in insecurity so deep that there's nothing I can do about it.

 

The thing that blows my mind is how I have this perspective that I can't even begin to get him to understand. Like I said, it's like we are on 2 different planes of reality... this is partly why (when I take time to think about it), I feel so hopeless and confused.

 

@denise_xo: yes, we did go to marriage counseling on a regular basis shortly after the birth of our first child, but haven't since we had to move to a new area (about 2 yrs ago). I think it helped somewhat to get issues out in the open, and lately things are just overlooked or ignored.

[denise_xo]

@greengoddess: I think the pastor mentioned the site to describe how people are struggling in their marriages in many different ways. The sermon was basically about the important components of a good marriage: attention, spiritual accordance, shared recreation, physical intimacy, etc.

 

@xxoo: Yes, I do feel that he definitely believes in the submissive wife philosophy. His mother was that to the nth degree. My background is quite the opposite, yet when we first met I do believe I let him have the say in most everything probably more than I should have. Since becoming a mother and maybe realizing his imperfections more, I'm not as "submissive"(?) I guess. I just want an equal partnership, but it is difficult.

 

I guess at this point I'm just trying to care and do the right thing no matter how he treats me. It's just such a challenge when I feel so neglected in many areas of our marriage. The biggest thing that ruffles my feathers is how critical he is of me on a continual basis. I try to find my strength more in God, and not my husband's negative words, but it is so hard. My husband describes himself as having OCD tendencies. I would say he is "type A," for sure. He picks on so many little things. So many times I have said, "Please balance your negative with some positive words," but I think it is really hard for him because he grew up with an extremely critical and abusive father who only knew how to speak words of criticism. He says due to his upbringing, he can easily take criticism from others... yet, I don't truly believe this. I think deep down he is quite insecure and has trouble being criticized.

 

Just as an example, and I know this is probably a weird post all in itself... but he has never let me see him naked. He always locks the bathroom door, and the lights are always off when we are intimate. There are other things, like he hates for me to touch his face. These things, among others, have always made me feel like he holds me at a distance. I feel it is rooted somehow in insecurity so deep that there's nothing I can do about it.

 

The thing that blows my mind is how I have this perspective that I can't even begin to get him to understand. Like I said, it's like we are on 2 different planes of reality... this is partly why (when I take time to think about it), I feel so hopeless and confused.

 

@denise_xo: yes, we did go to marriage counseling on a regular basis shortly after the birth of our first child, but haven't since we had to move to a new area (about 2 yrs ago). I think it helped somewhat to get issues out in the open, and lately things are just overlooked or ignored.

 

The thing I bolded is dangerous, I think. It depends a bit what you mean by 'doing the right thing', but it translates to me as if you're 'putting up with' and just storing all the difficulties inside rather than forcing him to address his own weaknesses. At some point the bubble will burst and then you might find yourself in an even more vulnerable state emotionally.

 

If you 'can't even begin to get him to understand', then perhaps another round of MC would be a good place to start? You could also consider some IC for yourself. But at the end of the day, you need to set some boundaries for yourself and for the terms in which you want to engage in this relationship. He won't change out of the blue. In the long run, what are you willing to live with (or not)??

[ladychesterton]

I really do feel like the pain is just building up inside me. Last night I was on my laptop, trying to read something. My husband kept asking me where the Q-tips were. I said I didn't know, but he wasn't convinced. He kept asking me, and I said, "I don't know" a little louder and, apparently I cut off the end of his sentence when he was speaking. He got really quiet. I apologized once (he said it was not good enough), I apologized again (he went and sat quietly, acted angry for a few minutes), so finally I went over and put my arm around him and apologized some more. He continued to act angry, and refused to look at me. I asked me what was wrong, and he starts getting really heated and raising his voice about how I'm never going to change and he's sick and tired of my attitude. I kept trying to ask him what I was supposed to do? I told him I was irritated by him asking me the same thing over and over again, and that's why my response was the way it was. I was trying to discuss it with him, but he kept getting visibly more and more angry. I asked him why, and he said I was wasting his time because I already knew the right thing to do, and I was just resistant. At this point, I felt completely defeated, as he said I was wasting his time. I said I was sorry for wasting his time, and did he need anything else. He said, no. I went into the other room and cried a while, then went to sleep.

[denise_xo]

I really do feel like the pain is just building up inside me. Last night I was on my laptop, trying to read something. My husband kept asking me where the Q-tips were. I said I didn't know, but he wasn't convinced. He kept asking me, and I said, "I don't know" a little louder and, apparently I cut off the end of his sentence when he was speaking. He got really quiet. I apologized once (he said it was not good enough), I apologized again (he went and sat quietly, acted angry for a few minutes), so finally I went over and put my arm around him and apologized some more. He continued to act angry, and refused to look at me. I asked me what was wrong, and he starts getting really heated and raising his voice about how I'm never going to change and he's sick and tired of my attitude. I kept trying to ask him what I was supposed to do? I told him I was irritated by him asking me the same thing over and over again, and that's why my response was the way it was. I was trying to discuss it with him, but he kept getting visibly more and more angry. I asked him why, and he said I was wasting his time because I already knew the right thing to do, and I was just resistant. At this point, I felt completely defeated, as he said I was wasting his time. I said I was sorry for wasting his time, and did he need anything else. He said, no. I went into the other room and cried a while, then went to sleep.

 

That's manipulative and abusive. I am worried by the fact that you are apologising for things you shouldn't apologise for. Personally I wouldn't put up with that behaviour, but to try to say something more supportive: Would it be an option for the two of you to try MC again? And more importantly, if you do, is there a state in the past when relationship dynamics were healthier that you could work towards? You might also really benefit from IC in your situation, have you considered that?

[sunshinegirl]

I know this may sound like a kind of weird answer, but you really should read some books on the Amish. The women there let their husbands be the head of the household and love him for his leadership. Much of our arguments today fester around women wanting to call as many shots. This doesn't mean they should be a ruling dictator or anything, but generally in charge and allowed to call the shots. If you try it out you may find a real peace in your home and you will love him more for it.

 

It worked for me.

 

I'm sorry, I consider this to be terrible advice given that the examples OP posted about her husband have NOTHING to do with him acting like any kind of "leader" in their home, but everything to do with him being an emotional bully in their home.

 

If he treated her with respect and kindness, and was as quick to acknowledge and apologize for his own behaviors as he is to demand apologies from her, then perhaps I could see an argument for adapting to a male leadership model a la the Amish.

 

But you are essentially advocating that someone who is getting emotionally beaten down in her marriage to basically find a way to accept being treated that way.

 

OP, has your husband ever hurt you physically? Or anyone else?

Edited February 17, 2011 by sunshinegirl

[denise_xo]

I'm sorry, I consider this to be terrible advice given that the examples OP posted about her husband have NOTHING to do with him acting like any kind of "leader" in their home, but everything to do with him being an emotional bully in their home.

 

But you are essentially advocating that someone who is getting emotionally beaten down in her marriage to basically find a way to accept being treated that way.

 

Agree 100 per cent. That was horrendous advice IMO.

[ladychesterton]

Thanks for all the replies. I really don't know what else to do right now, but just pray. I feel my husband is so blind to his own sense of entitlement and hostility. He basically tells me that he refuses to work on anything that bothers me until I change. He says his way of working on my issues with him is telling me his issues with me, so I can fix them. Until I learn how to humble myself and apologize like he wants, and speak respectfully to him at all times, then I have no hope of getting any of my concerns addressed. My concerns include: he won't pray with me, he shows no affection, he doesn't spend time with me, he won't share his feelings with me (instead says I already know what I've done wrong), and we haven't slept together in 6 months (although this is not such a big deal to me, as I have no desire right now anyway). Out relationship is so messed up, and yet he show absolutely no distress over this. I used to be emotional about it, a year or two ago, but at this point I'm just disappointed and feeling things will probably fall apart as soon as we don't need each other for raising children. Sad but true.

[denise_xo]

Thanks for all the replies. I really don't know what else to do right now, but just pray. I feel my husband is so blind to his own sense of entitlement and hostility. He basically tells me that he refuses to work on anything that bothers me until I change. He says his way of working on my issues with him is telling me his issues with me, so I can fix them. Until I learn how to humble myself and apologize like he wants, and speak respectfully to him at all times, then I have no hope of getting any of my concerns addressed. My concerns include: he won't pray with me, he shows no affection, he doesn't spend time with me, he won't share his feelings with me (instead says I already know what I've done wrong), and we haven't slept together in 6 months (although this is not such a big deal to me, as I have no desire right now anyway). Out relationship is so messed up, and yet he show absolutely no distress over this. I used to be emotional about it, a year or two ago, but at this point I'm just disappointed and feeling things will probably fall apart as soon as we don't need each other for raising children. Sad but true.

 

OK, so now he has set his 'conditions'. What are you going to do? Accept them?

 

He is basically telling you that your concerns are not important to him, that he is not going to move on inch to accommodate what you see as serious problems in your relationship, and that he basically doesn't care.

 

Is this good enough for you? Do you feel comfortable raising you children in an atmosphere where they see that daddy bullies mommy? Is that a good model for them in their upbringing?

 

You can't change his behaviour, but you can decide for yourself how you react to his behaviour. You can choose to continue your life with a bully, or you can choose to walk away.

[DaisyLeigh]

I know this may sound like a kind of weird answer, but you really should read some books on the Amish. The women there let their husbands be the head of the household and love him for his leadership. Much of our arguments today fester around women wanting to call as many shots. This doesn't mean they should be a ruling dictator or anything, but generally in charge and allowed to call the shots. If you try it out you may find a real peace in your home and you will love him more for it.

 

It worked for me.

 

 

Oh good grief! That does not work with a bully. And maybe MEN need to get over themselves and realize that they are NOT the kings of the damn world and that women have a right to an opinion.