d-day

[PhoenixRise]

I am sorry and I'm not trying to be defensive, just to explain the situation. What I told her were his exact words to me. Was he lying to me? Possibly? But the truth is he was sent by his wife to tell me it was over. He may have gone home and told her he did the deed. I wanted him to leave me alone (because I knew if he said he wanted to be with me, I would be all in because that was our plan all along.) the only way I could think to get him to leave me alone was to make him HATE me. I knew that telling his wife the truth was a good way to make him hate me. I didnt make up what he said. Was it cruel to her? Obviously from reading the responses it was unecessarily cruel and for that I am sorry. I didnt make it up. I told HER what her husband said and why I was letting him go. Because knowing I have his heart is enough. I did NOT tell her that he told me he is afraid to have sex with his wife because he's worried he won't be able to get arroused (not so much because he is thinking of me) but becuase he is used to me and he will also have it on his mind that if he instantly doesn't get arroused she will be thinking he is thinking of ME and that will upset her. I didn't tell her that he said he sees her as a roommate and would be happy if he could fix her up with someone who would make her happy and so he wouldn't worry about her. Those things would have been cruel.

 

Yes, I was in a relationship before him that turned unexpectedly abusive. Was with my fiance for 5 years and he had a son that I loved dearly and who lived with us. My fiance left me unexpectedly for another woman (no affair, he just wanted to date her) He told me nothing sexual happened and so did she. I believed them and I took him back and we were ok for a few months and then I started to have questions about the other woman and my fiance turned abusive. I have NEVER been physically abused in my life and the man I loved cornered me in our bathroom and screamed at me for two hours. I couldn't get away. I left him and he stalked me, threatened me and I had to get a protection order against him. I haven't seen him or his son since and thats when I met MM and he treated me like a princess. He protected me, kept me safe, cherished me like no one EVER has. That is why I'm hung up on him. Why did he fall for me so quickly? I don't know. I think he thought he found everything he's always wanted. It wasn't just about sex. He took care of me, risked so much for me. He would do anything for me. His only concern was my well being and happiness. I know its probably just a fantasy world we were living in but it felt better than anything I've ever had.

 

 

Miranda

 

If what you say about your previous relationship is true then this whole situation is even more troubling than I thought.

 

I know it has been mentioned in this thread before but I think you truly need some IC. I say this in all seriousness and I hope you don't take this as a slam. You need help. Being emotionally abused, stalked, and intimidated by someone who has professed to love you is traumatic.

 

AND I think you are possibly repeating a pattern here. You have chosen a man who has proven to have the ability to be very emotionally abusive to someone who he knows loves him and who he at one time loved as well. He is being deliberately and unnecessarily cruel because if he wants to be with you all that needs to happen is he leaves his wife and stays gone. That's it. No Drama. No unnecessary cruelty. Just go.

 

I think if you had healed from the events in your previous relationship the red flags waving, the clear evidence that this man has it in him to be so abusive, so cruel to someone he at one time professed to love would have you running for the hills. Because I would bet at some point he treated his wife like a princess too.

[whichwayisup]

And I deserve her wrath. But SO DOES HER HUSBAND. and I told her that too and she said she wants to be mad at him but she just doesn't want to lose him. She has been with him since she was 16 years old (she was with other men before that so he's not her first)

 

I do feel terrible and part of me wants to just walk away. But I just LOVE him and I don't know why.

 

And she's been with him since she was 16, and she loves him too! She isn't just going to hand him over to you without a fight, rightfully so. (the part in brackets, stuff you really shouldn't know about her, he shouldn't be discussing her past sex life with you)

 

Trust me, her wrath for him WILL come. She's in shock, her whole world has been turned upside. She's completely devastated..But, that anger is going to come and he will feel it.

 

thats when I met MM and he treated me like a princess. He protected me, kept me safe, cherished me like no one EVER has. That is why I'm hung up on him. Why did he fall for me so quickly? I don't know. I think he thought he found everything he's always wanted. It wasn't just about sex. He took care of me, risked so much for me. He would do anything for me. His only concern was my well being and happiness. I know its probably just a fantasy world we were living in but it felt better than anything I've ever had.

He's your knight in shining armour and he played that part well.

 

The part I bolded, it's good you see the possibility of that. You two have something, but it is in an affair dynamic. It isn't out in the open, been tested by life's rough and bad times, you haven't had to put up with his habits, or moods, or his family.. Now, you may. IF they have kids, grown up or whatever, she'll always be a part of his life.

 

Not saying it will or won't work out, but right now, he isn't yours. Back off and let them sort this out. If he is going to divorce, let him go through this alone, with the help of therapy and other family and friends. If you stick with him and be by his side during this process, it'll enable him to do nothing and he'll stay and continue the A, which is what is happening right now.

 

just know too, he may not be giving you the full truth. He's lied to her and omitted stuff from her, so don't think he wouldn't do that you too.

 

I called his wife and I told her that I know he was sent to tell me it was over and that he did not. I did NOT say "every time he's with you physically, he'll be thinking of me." I wasn't talking about him having sex with her and thinking of me! I told her that I would walk away and they could work on their marriage (and maybe this is the gloating part) she asked me why I was going to do that after I'd told her I loved him. I told her because even though you will physically have him (he will live with her be there for her) He told me I will always have his heart. And that alone is enough for me.

Then it is was the way you worded it. My apologies there. it really seemed like you said that part by how you wrote it.

[Star_Bright]

 

Your whole story/situation just makes me so sad.

 

It seems to me that part of you wants to do the right thing and be happy but part of you is embroiled in this drama and doesn't know how to get out. I don't think you mean to be intentionally cruel but you are being that way. I also recommend like others have, and I think I probably have already before too, that you get counseling... it has really helped me tremendously and is still helping me.

 

I can relate to you in that I was confused and would do/say contraditory things and I wanted to live up to what I thought were my values but I kept going against them. You are obviously having a crisis of conscience and I am, and everyone here is, just trying to help you see your way out. It is clear that you are struggling, wrestling with yourself, but you have this MM up so high on a pedestal that you keep thinking/acting in his best interests instead of your own. You are so focused on him that you can't see the forest through the trees. I really think counseling can help you figure it all out.

 

I am not trying to judge or chastise you but only to help. I feel you don't see the harm in your behavior, to yourself and to other people, and that can be potentially devestating if you keep going like this. I have been where you are in many ways... there are patterns to many MMs/ many affairs that we don't realize until we are out of them or starting to get out of them. It's a strange situation where things really seem one way and then they seem very different, especially after D-Day, and your eyes start to open but you don't want to believe you could have been so naive. And people point out that he could be lying, that you shouldn't trust a known liar/cheat, just to help you to open your eyes more, not to belittle you or even him.

 

People here are very helpful, keep talking, keep thinking... you will find your way. I know you are a good person and I am not trying to say otherwise. I think you are just caught up in a very very bad sitation and you are doing some not great things but you can find your way out. That is really what I believe. I also know you are hurting and I'm sorry for your pain.

[ver13]

One thing I do know a little about is being in the same space w someone for 20yrs. It's an amazing thing which has many interesting dynamics to it such as shared commitment, acceptance and compromise. The whole outside relationship that you have with him is just that outside. Whatever has happened between him and his W will always be a mystery because neither one will ever really tell you WTF is going on in there. That's because they aren't to sure themselves sometimes but one thing is for sure no one is leaving that thing unless they both have had enough. He might tell you all kinds of things and so will she but only they will decide when it is truly over. I have moved out before and somehow I come back and the door is still unlocked for some reason. We have both seen the other side of other people who claim they luv you only to come back to each other and deal with it once again it's called luv I guess. They aren't through with each other yet and when they are it won't be because of someone else. So watch yourself on this one because the fun and games have just got started and when it's over the only ones left standing will be the ones that got there first.

[findingnemo]

Miranda,

 

Even if you did tell W what we thought you said, it is understandable. It is not easy to have a conversation with a BS, I imagine. Everyone agrees that it was unnecessary for the BS to hear that in whatever form it was delivered. But I personally don't want to dwell on details such as who said what and who did what. You are in a crisis and need to recognize that BS' pain and reaction is a bigconcern. The point everyone is trying to make is that the situation is getting dangerous. Your MM may say and even believe he is helping his W but in essence, he is driving her crazy.

 

I don't know how old you are (did you mention it?), but I know what a BS feels and I was married less than 3 years and not even in love with my H. The betrayal was still painful for me. So I want you to imagine a woman who has loved a man for 20 years, has no family or kids (as you said) waking up one day to find out that her H has been in an A for less than 3 months and this is about to tear her world apart. Because of your detailed description of what is going on with the BS, it is a matter of utmost urgency and importance that you do something to alleviate this woman of her pain and leave their M to them.

 

She may wake up next week and throw the man out!!! That may be what you want but I think to focus on that now and to worry about "your feelings" is the wrong thing to do. From his point of view if he really does love you, he needs to be focused on reality right now. Should something tragic happen from this sit, I don't know how you will convince him that you really love him. If you do, find a way to get out of thier marriage and let him sort it out.

 

You have received advice from OWs, OMs, BS' and others. Not one person thinks that this is a simple problem. Everybody is alarmed at the events you describe. At this point, things can go horribly wrong because MM and you are putting the BS (however problematic she may be) through the ringer pschologically. This is not a game!

[Confused4Now]

One thing I do know a little about is being in the same space w someone for 20yrs. It's an amazing thing which has many interesting dynamics to it such as shared commitment, acceptance and compromise. The whole outside relationship that you have with him is just that outside. Whatever has happened between him and his W will always be a mystery because neither one will ever really tell you WTF is going on in there. That's because they aren't to sure themselves sometimes but one thing is for sure no one is leaving that thing unless they both have had enough. He might tell you all kinds of things and so will she but only they will decide when it is truly over. I have moved out before and somehow I come back and the door is still unlocked for some reason. We have both seen the other side of other people who claim they luv you only to come back to each other and deal with it once again it's called luv I guess. They aren't through with each other yet and when they are it won't be because of someone else. So watch yourself on this one because the fun and games have just got started and when it's over the only ones left standing will be the ones that got there first.

This is so true.....in the dynamics of an A when everything comes to light the whole A is based on lies. Even I lied to a degree but what is very clear is NOBODY knows whats going on in the house. You have no clue what's being said but I would bet that most MM/MW will down play their AP that's for sure cause the minute they see the pain they've caused it really tends to wake people up.

 

However whats sad is it doesn't take them that long to miss their OM/OW and they usually pick up right where they left off and even though when I started my divorce from my 20+ year marriage I had thoughts of going back many times but didn't. It's tough...that's all I can say.

[Carrot2000]

I have NEVER been physically abused in my life and the man I loved cornered me in our bathroom and screamed at me for two hours. I couldn't get away. I left him and he stalked me, threatened me and I had to get a protection order against him. I haven't seen him or his son since and thats when I met MM and he treated me like a princess. He protected me, kept me safe, cherished me like no one EVER has. That is why I'm hung up on him. Why did he fall for me so quickly? I don't know. I think he thought he found everything he's always wanted. It wasn't just about sex. He took care of me, risked so much for me. He would do anything for me. His only concern was my well being and happiness. I know its probably just a fantasy world we were living in but it felt better than anything I've ever had.

 

So the abusive relationship with your ex ended within the last six months or so? Miranda, you haven't had sufficient time to recover from that experience! The abuse you suffered in your last relationship probably left you feeling unsafe and lowered your self-esteem; your vulnerability is probably why MM fell for you so quickly. He saw a broken-winged bird and swooped in to save the day and it feels good. But in the process of building you up, he's intentionally destroying someone else, and you know that's not right. In your heart, you know what he doing is not okay.

 

My suggestion: walk away. Let MM deal with his mess and you deal with yours. Get into counseling so you can work through the abuse you experienced and the loss of the little boy you grew to love. Get stronger and rebuild your self-esteem so you can find a man who loves you for your strengths, not because you are vulnerable and non-threatening.

[neveragain1]

neveragain- I think miranda stated that MM and his wife do not have any kids.

 

ya, see that now. thats odd. 20+ years and no kids

 

anyway, I don't know why he wouldn't divorce if thats the case. only one reason I can think of. he doesn't want her getting half his retirement.

[whichwayisup]

ya, see that now. thats odd. 20+ years and no kids

 

anyway, I don't know why he wouldn't divorce if thats the case. only one reason I can think of. he doesn't want her getting half his retirement.

 

That and having to face up to his family, her family, their friends and extended family, that he cheated and left her after 20 years of marriage for someone else. He doesnt' want to be the bad guy..He wants her to take the fall, when she's angry and kicks him out, that way he can say "I tried, but she kicked me out! I was there for her when she had her breakdown, times she said she was going to kill herself, I WAS THERE..And now she wants to divorce..." No, this is reflection and not owning what he's done. This guy is calculatting and malicous, as well as selfish. It's absolutely SICKENING that one human being can do that to another after so many years of marriage and life built together. Such disrespect and venom. I DO hope his wife kicks his ass out.

[neveragain1]

He doesnt' want to be the bad guy

 

well thats just too damn bad

[Carrot2000]

well thats just too damn bad

 

And too damn late.

[fooled once]

I so don't understand what you even see in this guy!

He's an a**hole!! he says that he doesn't want to hurt her, but he did all that crap in bold.

He's disgusting.

He's such a heartless jerk.

He rubs your relationship with him in her face and then the next minute says he feels guilty?

 

Don't be surprised if that's you one day!

 

I'm sorry - this isn't the typical rant of someone that's never been in an A situations - but this guy's actions towards his wife are disgusting.

 

He has absolutely no compassion for her and what he's put her through - honestly people like that will do it without remorse to ANYONE - be careful, because it could very well be you one day.

 

 

So how is adding to her devestation helping?

Wow what a stand up thoughtful guy

 

 

Why can't he walk away? I think I missed that logical answer...

oh, because she needs to stand on her own and support herself? - oh yeah! well after 20+ years of marriage, I'm sure she'll get a nice settlement. Anything else?

 

Oh, because of the history between them and how he doesn't want to hurt her? - oh yeah he's covering that ground quite nicely by rubbing his A in her face on a daily basis.

 

 

 

Yeah, this guy is either one fantastic actor, or he's got some MAJOR abandonment "daddy or mommy issues" that certainly need a good therapist to be resolved.

 

 

 

ooh, well if HE says it, ya know its gotta be true!!

 

 

See its this in bold that I so don't get, I can't believe he actually has the nerve to make that claim, when he does things on a daily basis to cause her so much pain.

 

I'm sorry Miranda if my response was harsh, its not directed at you - all this anger is coming from the crap he's doing.

 

Honestly, I know what its like to love someone even if they do something "bad", but this guy had not only crossed that line, he's pissed on it.

 

I just can't believe some of the claims he's making when the evidence is to the contrary.

 

You said it yourself, how could he lie to her when the evidence of the A was right there.

He's lying to you about being this "good guy" when all evidence points to contrary.

 

This guy is seriously messed up.

 

I'm not even claiming that he loves her and wont leave her, I'm just asking you to really consider if you want someone so heartless, cruel and disgusting in your life.

 

DITTO!!!

 

I think you are both classic conflict avoiders and cowards to the nth degree.

 

You want the relationship but without any of the mess.

 

You want everyone to like you both without any of the devastating fallout from both your actions.

 

You two are children who want to play and have fun but have none of the maturity to own your actions when the consequences have caused untold pain to his wife.

 

He wants your continued unconditional approval and you want his wife not to hate you.

 

Good luck! Because she does and she will, and he will do whatever you want to get his continued "good boy, good boy!"

 

Someone on the playground has to make a choice here, like an adult!

 

He is hoping she throws him out. So are you! Then it will not be your fault and you can go back to your fun, uninterrupted by any real consequences or feelings of guilt.

 

Good luck!

 

She has just discovered her entire life has been a lie, and now she is having her nose rubbed in the affair by your misguided intentions to not have any splash back from this mess.

 

I hope she doesn't commit suicide.

 

That might really ruin your fun for awhile.

 

DITTO

 

 

Wow. This whole sitch is so messed up. It seems to me that you don't really want him (during your whole post you keep saying that you didn't fight for him, didn't "make" him do anything to choose you over her, you sent him back home?! Really?!), and he doesn't really want you either (he stays put at home with his wife when he had every opportunity to come to you). Maybe you both just like the drama? Because this is not love. I don't even read you saying you love him- just that you need him/are attached to him. That may be co-dependency but it's not love. What just makes me so very very sad is this quote:

 

 

 

That was so incredibly cruel! You were just saying you wanted to do the right thing and you know what the right thing is. But you downright cruel to her for totally selfish reasons. Wow.

 

I am not judging you, I have been an OW, I have been selfish too. I'm just judging that action of saying those things to his wife... it was totally and completely out of line. What did she ever do to you to make you feel like you had a right to gloat like that to her? Wow.

 

Like others I think your MM sounds like such a baby. He is selfish, he is hurting his wife, rubbing it in her face, and you are going along with it. You are no longer just an OW but an accomplice to his cruelty to her. Why?! If he wants out, he should leave. If you really want him, it's ultimatum time. Tell him not to talk to you until he is yours and only yours. Then you'll see where his heart really lies. In the meantime, you're becoming just like him, and hurting her right along with him, not just as a "casualty" in terms of you wanting to be with him and he's married to her, but you are actively participating in him further hurting someone who has been devastated. If you are doing this because your ultimate goal is to be with him, then just tell him how it is, that you want to be with him, but not like this. ("There has to be a better way?" This is not a better way! This is the worst way possible!) And why do you even want to be with him? He is so cruel and selfish. Don't become like him... run away!

 

DITTO

 

OP, please stop comparing your broken engagement to at 20+ year marriage. It is NOT the same thing - not even close. That is like comparing apples and Qtips.

 

You are enjoying this 'fight' for this loser. It is obvious. In 3 months, you just love him to pieces and can't image being with out him. Shame on his wife for not just standing aside and letting you have him.

 

If he is the 'man' you claim he is - why doesn't he STOP torturing her with the games of texting you (ooww...wow...a text!!) and calling you in front of his wife.

 

He will get what is coming to him one day. I hope she takes him to the cleaners. I hope she gets every last dime out of him. You can have him and his heart - she can have his assets, his money and any thing else a damn good lawyer will give her. Don't be shocked if you are named in the divorce petition once she gets her head on straight and sees a lawyer. You gave her plenty of ammo to use.

 

I wish his wife peace and happiness .... and a pit bull of a divorce lawyer!

[Woman In Blue]

I'm going to assume you're considerably younger than your married "boyfriend," because no mature, intelligent woman would act like this after a 90-day "romance" with ANY guy - married or not. So I'm banking on the fact that you're considerably younger than he is.

 

He sounds like Mr. Midlife Crisis 2011. He also sounds like an incredibly insensitive jerk whose really only trying to cover his OWN ass. He's back in that house to protect his assets, not to protect his wife because she might do something "crazy." Let's be honest, if he were REALLY worried about her losing it, he wouldn't be acting like a jerkoff and texting and calling you all day in front of her, now would he? Don't be too flattered by his juvenile and disgusting behavior of flaunting his contact with you in her face. When you get older and wiser, you'll see this loser for the jack-hole he really is and you'll cringe at how pathetic his behavior really was.

 

You'd better think twice about winning this prize. I'm assuming you're too young to know any better, so take the advice of a seasoned veteran - watch a man VERY carefully with respect to how he treats the women in his life. You're a naive fool if you think you're above being treated like he's been treating his wife. Because the day will come when you discover his NEXT affair (and make no mistake - there WILL be a next affair). And when you're crying in devastation, curled up in a ball on the floor and he kicks YOU in the face, you'll remember these words. That's a promise.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Woman In Blue

[thomasb]

WIB... If I wasn't already deeply in love with my wife, I think I would have to fall for you. I like the way you think. Very true. Consise and to the point. And after all my years... very realistic.

[Waitress]

I think there are three broken people in this triangle. It is hard to believe that the BS did not know the type of man this guy was before now. I don't believe he was a prince of a guy and then suddenly changed a couple of weeks ago.

 

Chances are the W has settled into role of victim. Why else would she still be with him? If she were a strong, independent woman who was unfamiliar with being abused she would have taken NONE of this. He would have been out immediately.

 

I think Miranda was very vulnerable when the MM found her. One of the patterns for an abuser is to swoop in when a woman is getting over a previous abuser. He will be her savior, until he becomes her nightmare.

 

Miranda has gotten herself caught in a pattern of abuse. First with her ex and now this MM. It is very hard to get out of that. It can take years, if it ever happens.

 

I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong in this situation. Just that all three people need counseling. IMO.

[Carrot2000]

I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong in this situation. Just that all three people need counseling. IMO.

 

You nailed it!

[miranda3379]

again thank you all for your insight. I am ten years younger than MM. I have never even dated anyone who had a girlfriend much less a wife. He took the pain away that I was feeling from my last relationship. The only reason I compared a broken engagement to what his wife may be feeling is that in ways it is similiar and hurts just as much. It's not 20 years and I'm sorry for causing her devastation. I'm sure he hasn't told me the whole truth. But I do know that he wasn't happy at home. He had an affair ten years ago and yearned for that AP ever since. Is he a bad guy for that? Yes! But that is between him and his wife. They have NO kids. She has a child that she had with someone else when she was 15 years old. Her son was a huge source of problems in their marriage. MM says he did everything for his step son and his wife coddled him and he turned out horribly. He blames the step son for missed opportunities in his life (moving for a great career) and the step son has been in and out of jail and is currently in prison for something horrible and MM testified against his own step son to put him there.

 

I am more level headed today and here is what I think and see- I think MM loves me because our relationship is all GOOD feelings. I appreciate him and love him back and have done things with him that in 20 years his wife never has. At 40 years old they were basically living like a couple in their 60's or 70's. didn't do anything together, no common interests, not much affection. And I know that he TRIED. He told me the things he did to try to spice things up, to make her feel happier ect. And I think he just gave up and resigned himself to living like casual roomates. And when he found the AP 10 years ago he came alive again. And when he found me he felt alive again. He feels a sense of responsibility to his wife. obviously not enough to keep from cheating on her and that makes him a bad guy yes,. but I honestly think right now he is torn and weighing his options. He wants to stay with her just to take her pain away. But he's said he knows that this would only be temporary. That yes, she will feel better for a short time because he hasn't abandoned her but then the rage and anger and hurt will set in and he said he just can't fix it. nothing will ever be the same between them and he just wants to move on with his life.

 

He said he knows (and its already started) that she will do ANYTHING to keep him around. That she will pay more attention to him, have a lot of sex with him and probably try new things she never would before, that she will smother him with affection, get involved in sharing his interests etc. He said after 20 years that would be FAKE. That he knows she's never done all that before and she would do it to try to keep him around and then it would go back to "normal" once she succeeded. He said he doesn't want to force her to be someone she's not and that he thought he could live like they did and be ok. But once he met me (and the other AP) he got a taste of what he COULD have. ANd he knows that even if his wife tries she can't replicate that. And he feels it is better to go their separate ways. She's at the stage now that she wants to be held and comforted and for him to tell her he loves her. He said (he todl her this) that he cant touch her. That he feels he would be cheating on me and also he feels so bad for what he did. He said he can not comfort her because it would give her hope.

 

He told me that last night she said to him that deep down she knows he's done. That he's there but he's not "there". that he doesn't want to be with her and that its only a matter of time before he leaves her for good and she doesn't know how to accept this. He keeps telling her she will get to the point where she wants to pack his stuff and throw him out. or that she just wants to be on her own because she will realize it will never work out. He doesn't talk to me right in front of her. she knows how much we text and talk because she looks at the phone tracking online every day. She doesn't know he bought another cell like he had before so we are actually talking about twice as much as what she sees.

 

she has asked him several times to do just ONE thing for her- wear his weddign ring, STOP contacting me, hold her. And he has told her over and over he won't do any of that.

 

Even if I walk away (and I know I should but even my own mom said that I won't walk away,that I wouldn't be able to handle that) I don't think his feelings would change. I think he would just pretend to be home and miss me. He is more devastated that I might leave him than he is about his wife and him ending their marriage. He has tried to make things better for her to leave- he will pay the mortgage or the rent on an apartment for her (even though she makes good money), he will do anything to make things easier on her except what she wants- to work things out.

 

I know it doesn't make much sense to wait until she gets to the anger stage. It made sense to me at first because when you get to that stage you see things more clearly, you dont internalize everything, and you can function. I know I shouldn't be waiting around for him. I KNOW this. But our brief three months was the best relationship I've ever had. I know he's such an ******* for hurting his wife and I'm to blame as well. But he took care of me, he LOVED me, he kept me safe. And that is so hard to let go of. I don't expect his wife to just walk away. I expect HIM to man up and walk away. But I know that 20 years with someone has to be difficult to just up and abandon them in a few days. Maybe I am making excuses. I'm just afraid to let go. things are just as good now as they were before the discovery between us. Being in crisis has brought us closer. Perhaps Im an idiot and he's just using me to help him get through rough times at home. I know he hates going home every day to questions and he has to tread a thin line of trying not to devastate her to tears but trying not to give her any hope.

 

Maybe I will be the one who gets to the anger stage first and I'll just walk away from him. I don't know..

[bentnotbroken]

again thank you all for your insight. I am ten years younger than MM. I have never even dated anyone who had a girlfriend much less a wife. He took the pain away that I was feeling from my last relationship. The only reason I compared a broken engagement to what his wife may be feeling is that in ways it is similiar and hurts just as much. It's not 20 years and I'm sorry for causing her devastation. I'm sure he hasn't told me the whole truth. But I do know that he wasn't happy at home. He had an affair ten years ago and yearned for that AP ever since. Is he a bad guy for that? Yes! But that is between him and his wife. They have NO kids. She has a child that she had with someone else when she was 15 years old. Her son was a huge source of problems in their marriage. MM says he did everything for his step son and his wife coddled him and he turned out horribly. He blames the step son for missed opportunities in his life (moving for a great career) and the step son has been in and out of jail and is currently in prison for something horrible and MM testified against his own step son to put him there.

 

I am more level headed today and here is what I think and see- I think MM loves me because our relationship is all GOOD feelings. I appreciate him and love him back and have done things with him that in 20 years his wife never has. At 40 years old they were basically living like a couple in their 60's or 70's. didn't do anything together, no common interests, not much affection. And I know that he TRIED. He told me the things he did to try to spice things up, to make her feel happier ect. And I think he just gave up and resigned himself to living like casual roomates. And when he found the AP 10 years ago he came alive again. And when he found me he felt alive again. He feels a sense of responsibility to his wife. obviously not enough to keep from cheating on her and that makes him a bad guy yes,. but I honestly think right now he is torn and weighing his options. He wants to stay with her just to take her pain away. But he's said he knows that this would only be temporary. That yes, she will feel better for a short time because he hasn't abandoned her but then the rage and anger and hurt will set in and he said he just can't fix it. nothing will ever be the same between them and he just wants to move on with his life.

 

He said he knows (and its already started) that she will do ANYTHING to keep him around. That she will pay more attention to him, have a lot of sex with him and probably try new things she never would before, that she will smother him with affection, get involved in sharing his interests etc. He said after 20 years that would be FAKE. That he knows she's never done all that before and she would do it to try to keep him around and then it would go back to "normal" once she succeeded. He said he doesn't want to force her to be someone she's not and that he thought he could live like they did and be ok. But once he met me (and the other AP) he got a taste of what he COULD have. ANd he knows that even if his wife tries she can't replicate that. And he feels it is better to go their separate ways. She's at the stage now that she wants to be held and comforted and for him to tell her he loves her. He said (he todl her this) that he cant touch her. That he feels he would be cheating on me and also he feels so bad for what he did. He said he can not comfort her because it would give her hope.

 

He told me that last night she said to him that deep down she knows he's done. That he's there but he's not "there". that he doesn't want to be with her and that its only a matter of time before he leaves her for good and she doesn't know how to accept this. He keeps telling her she will get to the point where she wants to pack his stuff and throw him out. or that she just wants to be on her own because she will realize it will never work out. He doesn't talk to me right in front of her. she knows how much we text and talk because she looks at the phone tracking online every day. She doesn't know he bought another cell like he had before so we are actually talking about twice as much as what she sees.

 

she has asked him several times to do just ONE thing for her- wear his weddign ring, STOP contacting me, hold her. And he has told her over and over he won't do any of that.

 

Even if I walk away (and I know I should but even my own mom said that I won't walk away,that I wouldn't be able to handle that) I don't think his feelings would change. I think he would just pretend to be home and miss me. He is more devastated that I might leave him than he is about his wife and him ending their marriage. He has tried to make things better for her to leave- he will pay the mortgage or the rent on an apartment for her (even though she makes good money), he will do anything to make things easier on her except what she wants- to work things out.

 

I know it doesn't make much sense to wait until she gets to the anger stage. It made sense to me at first because when you get to that stage you see things more clearly, you dont internalize everything, and you can function. I know I shouldn't be waiting around for him. I KNOW this. But our brief three months was the best relationship I've ever had. I know he's such an ******* for hurting his wife and I'm to blame as well. But he took care of me, he LOVED me, he kept me safe. And that is so hard to let go of. I don't expect his wife to just walk away. I expect HIM to man up and walk away. But I know that 20 years with someone has to be difficult to just up and abandon them in a few days. Maybe I am making excuses. I'm just afraid to let go. things are just as good now as they were before the discovery between us. Being in crisis has brought us closer. Perhaps Im an idiot and he's just using me to help him get through rough times at home. I know he hates going home every day to questions and he has to tread a thin line of trying not to devastate her to tears but trying not to give her any hope.

 

Maybe I will be the one who gets to the anger stage first and I'll just walk away from him. I don't know..

 

 

1) no maybe about it. You are making excuses

2) perhaps you aren't an idiot but you certainly are playing with fire.

3)maybe you will get there first...let's pray it shall we?

 

 

I hope his wife finds her strength and puts a boot up his behind and finds someone worth more than he is.

[Snowflower]

again thank you all for your insight. I am ten years younger than MM. I have never even dated anyone who had a girlfriend much less a wife. He took the pain away that I was feeling from my last relationship. The only reason I compared a broken engagement to what his wife may be feeling is that in ways it is similiar and hurts just as much. It's not 20 years and I'm sorry for causing her devastation. I'm sure he hasn't told me the whole truth. But I do know that he wasn't happy at home. He had an affair ten years ago and yearned for that AP ever since. Is he a bad guy for that? Yes! But that is between him and his wife. They have NO kids. She has a child that she had with someone else when she was 15 years old. Her son was a huge source of problems in their marriage. MM says he did everything for his step son and his wife coddled him and he turned out horribly. He blames the step son for missed opportunities in his life (moving for a great career) and the step son has been in and out of jail and is currently in prison for something horrible and MM testified against his own step son to put him there.

I am more level headed today and here is what I think and see- I think MM loves me because our relationship is all GOOD feelings. I appreciate him and love him back and have done things with him that in 20 years his wife never has. At 40 years old they were basically living like a couple in their 60's or 70's. didn't do anything together, no common interests, not much affection. And I know that he TRIED. He told me the things he did to try to spice things up, to make her feel happier ect. And I think he just gave up and resigned himself to living like casual roomates. And when he found the AP 10 years ago he came alive again. And when he found me he felt alive again. He feels a sense of responsibility to his wife. obviously not enough to keep from cheating on her and that makes him a bad guy yes,. but I honestly think right now he is torn and weighing his options. He wants to stay with her just to take her pain away. But he's said he knows that this would only be temporary. That yes, she will feel better for a short time because he hasn't abandoned her but then the rage and anger and hurt will set in and he said he just can't fix it. nothing will ever be the same between them and he just wants to move on with his life.

He said he knows (and its already started) that she will do ANYTHING to keep him around. That she will pay more attention to him, have a lot of sex with him and probably try new things she never would before, that she will smother him with affection, get involved in sharing his interests etc. He said after 20 years that would be FAKE. That he knows she's never done all that before and she would do it to try to keep him around and then it would go back to "normal" once she succeeded. He said he doesn't want to force her to be someone she's not and that he thought he could live like they did and be ok. But once he met me (and the other AP) he got a taste of what he COULD have. ANd he knows that even if his wife tries she can't replicate that. And he feels it is better to go their separate ways. She's at the stage now that she wants to be held and comforted and for him to tell her he loves her. He said (he todl her this) that he cant touch her. That he feels he would be cheating on me and also he feels so bad for what he did. He said he can not comfort her because it would give her hope.

 

He told me that last night she said to him that deep down she knows he's done. That he's there but he's not "there". that he doesn't want to be with her and that its only a matter of time before he leaves her for good and she doesn't know how to accept this. He keeps telling her she will get to the point where she wants to pack his stuff and throw him out. or that she just wants to be on her own because she will realize it will never work out. He doesn't talk to me right in front of her. she knows how much we text and talk because she looks at the phone tracking online every day. She doesn't know he bought another cell like he had before so we are actually talking about twice as much as what she sees.

 

she has asked him several times to do just ONE thing for her- wear his weddign ring, STOP contacting me, hold her. And he has told her over and over he won't do any of that.

 

Even if I walk away (and I know I should but even my own mom said that I won't walk away,that I wouldn't be able to handle that) I don't think his feelings would change. I think he would just pretend to be home and miss me. He is more devastated that I might leave him than he is about his wife and him ending their marriage. He has tried to make things better for her to leave- he will pay the mortgage or the rent on an apartment for her (even though she makes good money), he will do anything to make things easier on her except what she wants- to work things out.

 

I know it doesn't make much sense to wait until she gets to the anger stage. It made sense to me at first because when you get to that stage you see things more clearly, you dont internalize everything, and you can function. I know I shouldn't be waiting around for him. I KNOW this. But our brief three months was the best relationship I've ever had. I know he's such an ******* for hurting his wife and I'm to blame as well. But he took care of me, he LOVED me, he kept me safe. And that is so hard to let go of. I don't expect his wife to just walk away. I expect HIM to man up and walk away. But I know that 20 years with someone has to be difficult to just up and abandon them in a few days. Maybe I am making excuses. I'm just afraid to let go. things are just as good now as they were before the discovery between us. Being in crisis has brought us closer. Perhaps Im an idiot and he's just using me to help him get through rough times at home. I know he hates going home every day to questions and he has to tread a thin line of trying not to devastate her to tears but trying not to give her any hope.

 

Maybe I will be the one who gets to the anger stage first and I'll just walk away from him. I don't know..

 

RE: the bolded parts of your post...

 

Miranda, I was always find it interesting how fixated the OW often is on the marriage of the MM. The bolded parts of your post, which is most of your post, seem to indicate this.

 

BTW, the things your MM is saying are exactly what so many MM say, including my H during his affair, so it is nothing original. Please don't fall for it.

 

I'm not trying to be mean...but I'm concerned. Where are YOU in all this? What about your feelings...they are added at the end almost as a footnote...like your feelings and hopes aren't as important as your MM's marriage and wife. And I will bet this is how the MM likes it; it seems to be all about your conflict-avoiding MM.

 

Please don't put up with this! This is a bad situation for you to be in and frankly, some of the stuff you are posting about is none of your business and is not your problem.

[woinlove]

 

I hope his wife finds her strength and puts a boot up his behind and finds someone worth more than he is.

 

I doubt he will make a move as long as he has two women competing for him, so I hope one or both of these women find the strength, as the status quo may be ego boosting for him, but it sounds like it is not making either woman happy.

 

miranda, unless you are enjoying this (the drama and playing therapist sounds horrible to me), you are better off deciding what it is you want and what you are willing to put up with, and then act accordingly.

[whichwayisup]

I agree, their marriage and the details isn't any of your buisness. I think the MM is telling you what you want to hear and is omitting alot of stuff. he has to though, to keep you in his life.

 

Anyway, sadly for you, it's obvious you're going to stick around and stay on the rollercoaster ride. Guess you'll have to suffer more pain, until you reach your enough is enough stage. Just know it's going to get worse and more damage is going to be done, not only to his wife, but to YOU.

 

Good luck. I doubt very much their marriage is over and chances of him actually leaving are really nil.

[neveragain1]

I am more level headed today and here is what I think and see- I think MM loves me because our relationship is all GOOD feelings. I appreciate him and love him back and have done things with him that in 20 years his wife never has.

 

uh huh.

 

and if he had been with you for 20 years, he surely would be filled with romance every single day, because you are special.

 

just tell yourself that and blame his wife all you want. forget the fact that he has cheated before, and that he really has no reason to stay with his wife if all you say is true.

[Snowflower]

I was thinking about this thread and IMO, Miranda, it is disrespectful and almost an invasion of privacy to post all these details about the BW in your situation. Sure, we are all anonymous here and personal stuff is posted here all the time but it is different if one is posting their own experience. The BW in your situation unknowingly is having very painful parts of her life and personal things put out here on a public forum and she doesn't even know.

 

It just seems wrong somehow and she is going through enough. And FTR, I would feel the same way if a BS was posting all these private details about the AP out here (without the AP's knowledge)...it is just wrong.:sick:

 

I'm off this thread--

[whichwayisup]

I am more level headed today and here is what I think and see- I think MM loves me because our relationship is all GOOD feelings. I appreciate him and love him back and have done things with him that in 20 years his wife never

This is your heart and emotions talking. If you truly believe you've shared MORE with him than his own wife, in such a short span of time, mind you, IN an affair dynamic, you are fooling yourself.

 

You have NO clue what their marriage has been like for the past 20 years. You only know what he's told you, and we all know WS's rewrite history to suit them best and put them in the best possible light. It's like he has you thinking he's shi.t doesn't stink! Well, it does. Alot.

[fooled once]

again thank you all for your insight. I am ten years younger than MM. I have never even dated anyone who had a girlfriend much less a wife. He took the pain away that I was feeling from my last relationship. The only reason I compared a broken engagement to what his wife may be feeling is that in ways it is similiar and hurts just as much. It's not 20 years and I'm sorry for causing her devastation. I'm sure he hasn't told me the whole truth. But I do know that he wasn't happy at home. He had an affair ten years ago and yearned for that AP ever since. Is he a bad guy for that? Yes! But that is between him and his wife. They have NO kids. She has a child that she had with someone else when she was 15 years old. Her son was a huge source of problems in their marriage. MM says he did everything for his step son and his wife coddled him and he turned out horribly. He blames the step son for missed opportunities in his life (moving for a great career) and the step son has been in and out of jail and is currently in prison for something horrible and MM testified against his own step son to put him there.

 

** you do not know that he isn't happy at home. YOU are hearing the words he says to you. An unhappy person leaves a marriage. An unhappy person doesn't go around throwing his mistress in his wife's face. An unhappy person leaves the unhappy situation .. not continue to be a cheater.

 

I have a child that I had with my first husband and please do not think you know what a step situation is like UNLESS you live it. This cheating MM is blaming EVERYONE but HIMSELF for his lack of happiness. This entire post is "MM says" "MM feels". You are not the MM so you truly have NO IDEA what his marriage is like. I know you think you do - you think everything he says and does is magical and wonderful. He isn't magical or wonderful. He is a coward, a cheater, a liar and an abuser. Yes, he is mentally abusing his wife IF he is truly doing what you proclaim he is doing. How any woman can sit there and care for some guy who treats his WIFE - HIS WIFE - like this, I have no idea. His behavior is disgusting and revolting.

I am more level headed today and here is what I think and see- I think MM loves me because our relationship is all GOOD feelings. I appreciate him and love him back and have done things with him that in 20 years his wife never has. At 40 years old they were basically living like a couple in their 60's or 70's. didn't do anything together, no common interests, not much affection. And I know that he TRIED. He told me the things he did to try to spice things up, to make her feel happier ect. And I think he just gave up and resigned himself to living like casual roomates. And when he found the AP 10 years ago he came alive again. And when he found me he felt alive again. He feels a sense of responsibility to his wife. obviously not enough to keep from cheating on her and that makes him a bad guy yes,. but I honestly think right now he is torn and weighing his options. He wants to stay with her just to take her pain away. But he's said he knows that this would only be temporary. That yes, she will feel better for a short time because he hasn't abandoned her but then the rage and anger and hurt will set in and he said he just can't fix it. nothing will ever be the same between them and he just wants to move on with his life.

 

** so in 90 days, he protects you, loves you and keeps you safe. Sorry, but I bet his wife said that for many years. So this MM, this cheater, he can change (seeing as he can find delight in cheating on his wife), but he just KNOWS his wife will never change. How about calling her and asking HER if what HE says about her is true? You really, really have blinders on. Don't you realize that IF you end up with this cheater, that in 2-5 years, he is going to be BORED with you and he will want some excitement again? He sees that cheating is okay because he has women just fighting over him

 

Yet he wants his wife to throw him out. Where is all his courage? Why doesn't HE LEAVE since he is so miserable? WHY doesn't he take the ACTION to leave instead of being the victim of wanting the wife to throw him out? What happens if she never does that? What happens if she says "you want to leave - GO. But I won't file for divorce - YOU do it". How long are you willing to sit and wait - and text - him? Do you really think because you text someone a whole bunch that it means everlasting love?????

 

And how do you know SHE checks the online cell bill every day? Because HE tells you to? Let me share something with you - as a WIFE - I have NEVER, EVER checked out cell phone bill online. NEVER.

He said he knows (and its already started) that she will do ANYTHING to keep him around. That she will pay more attention to him, have a lot of sex with him and probably try new things she never would before, that she will smother him with affection, get involved in sharing his interests etc. He said after 20 years that would be FAKE. That he knows she's never done all that before and she would do it to try to keep him around and then it would go back to "normal" once she succeeded. He said he doesn't want to force her to be someone she's not and that he thought he could live like they did and be ok. But once he met me (and the other AP) he got a taste of what he COULD have. ANd he knows that even if his wife tries she can't replicate that. And he feels it is better to go their separate ways. She's at the stage now that she wants to be held and comforted and for him to tell her he loves her. He said (he todl her this) that he cant touch her. That he feels he would be cheating on me and also he feels so bad for what he did. He said he can not comfort her because it would give her hope.

 

** This guy is such a pig. Nice who he trash talks his wife to you. How sad that you two sit around and discuss her and her pain. How pathetic that he gets off on being so disrespectful and disgusting to his wife.

 

He told me that last night she said to him that deep down she knows he's done. That he's there but he's not "there". that he doesn't want to be with her and that its only a matter of time before he leaves her for good and she doesn't know how to accept this. He keeps telling her she will get to the point where she wants to pack his stuff and throw him out. or that she just wants to be on her own because she will realize it will never work out. He doesn't talk to me right in front of her. she knows how much we text and talk because she looks at the phone tracking online every day. She doesn't know he bought another cell like he had before so we are actually talking about twice as much as what she sees.

 

she has asked him several times to do just ONE thing for her- wear his weddign ring, STOP contacting me, hold her. And he has told her over and over he won't do any of that.

 

Even if I walk away (and I know I should but even my own mom said that I won't walk away,that I wouldn't be able to handle that) I don't think his feelings would change. I think he would just pretend to be home and miss me. He is more devastated that I might leave him than he is about his wife and him ending their marriage. He has tried to make things better for her to leave- he will pay the mortgage or the rent on an apartment for her (even though she makes good money), he will do anything to make things easier on her except what she wants- to work things out.

 

I know it doesn't make much sense to wait until she gets to the anger stage. It made sense to me at first because when you get to that stage you see things more clearly, you dont internalize everything, and you can function. I know I shouldn't be waiting around for him. I KNOW this. But our brief three months was the best relationship I've ever had. I know he's such an ******* for hurting his wife and I'm to blame as well. But he took care of me, he LOVED me, he kept me safe. And that is so hard to let go of. I don't expect his wife to just walk away. I expect HIM to man up and walk away. But I know that 20 years with someone has to be difficult to just up and abandon them in a few days. Maybe I am making excuses. I'm just afraid to let go. things are just as good now as they were before the discovery between us. Being in crisis has brought us closer. Perhaps Im an idiot and he's just using me to help him get through rough times at home. I know he hates going home every day to questions and he has to tread a thin line of trying not to devastate her to tears but trying not to give her any hope.

 

Maybe I will be the one who gets to the anger stage first and I'll just walk away from him. I don't know..

 

I put in bold some thoughts above.

 

You could walk away, you just chose not to because you think he is such great love or something. He is a cheater. He is a liar. He is a liar. He treats the woman HE chose to marry like poop. Real great guy.

 

I agree, their marriage and the details isn't any of your buisness. I think the MM is telling you what you want to hear and is omitting alot of stuff. he has to though, to keep you in his life.

 

Anyway, sadly for you, it's obvious you're going to stick around and stay on the rollercoaster ride. Guess you'll have to suffer more pain, until you reach your enough is enough stage. Just know it's going to get worse and more damage is going to be done, not only to his wife, but to YOU.

 

Good luck. I doubt very much their marriage is over and chances of him actually leaving are really nil.

 

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO