I found the Heart of the matter

[Wolvesbaned]

Today as i was taking my final, my husband called and left a message. My stomach was in knots, and I knew he wanted to talk. I checked the message and I was right, he was ready to talk.

 

We just got done talking... and it's over. We mulled over some details, but didn't come to a complete understanding with how we're going to split the expenses. I'll be spending the rest of the night with my Mom or a friend. I'm hurting but surprisingly I'm doing better than I thought I would. Hell, I'm writing on here while he's playing video games. *Deep breath*

 

OK people .. that's it. Thank you all for your support. I'll be sure to share the messy details of the divorce as soon as I get over myself.

[Wolvesbaned]

OK so basically he doesn't think we'll work out. We don't get along. He doesn't want to go to counseling. He thinks this is the best time for us to do this because we'll both be graduating soon and he'll be going to medical school.

 

As I told him I loved him, he said he didn't want to hear that because it just makes it harder. He says it's not about his girlfriend. I reminded him that all the arguments we've been having was about her ... but he fails to see it claiming we had problems prior to her. He says she is still just a friend.

 

We started talking about the expenses... we have $50k in credit card bills alone! He said he wanted to be fair... then continued with his suggestion and said if I didn't agree then we can come up with something else. He thought I should take ALL of the debt and he'll just pay me back plus interest and some when he starts his residency. When I mentioned taking a roommate to help pay for the bills he said he can't stand to live with a roommate and he wants to live by himself so he can fully study for medical school. When I started to say I didn't think it was fair, he jumped in by sounding annoyed and said, "Fine, I'll just have to file for bankruptcy". He explained that he can't afford to pay for the bills even after a roommate and bankruptcy won't affect his student loans. He threw in there how he thought we can handle this like mature adults, as in if he gets his way and if it doesn't we're immature. The credit cards are separate, meaning 1/2 is pretty much only on his name and the other only in my name. When he spoke of bankruptcy, he meant after the divorce, hence only his credit would be affected (is that even possible?).

 

The rationale with why he thinks it's fair: I'm getting free money in the end. My Mom offered me a room and so I wouldn't have to pay for rent so I won't really have any expenses. It's like an investment. He says no matter what I'll be paying my bills anyway, and since I'll be starting my career, I will be able to pay it all off in about 2 years! Then I would just have to wait 2 more years for him to start paying me back! When I said I intend to pay my Mom something, he said I shouldn't do something just to make myself feel better.

 

Aside from everything else that's wrong with this, in 4 years he'll start his residency when he'll be paid ~$40k while working 80hrs a week. This is the time his student loans need to be repaid, he'll probably relocate, need a new car (if his car makes it until then), and a new apartment. He thinks he can pay me back in 1 year? There's no-way. So in actuality, he'll be paying me back in about 6 years, that's if earth doesn't swallow him up by then.

 

Did I mention how he wants to keep our apartment, TV, and both computers (he just bought a brand new laptop for medschool). He says he likes this monitor because he can play games on it, or something! He says he'll pay me for it too! With what? Oh yes, with his play money he'll be giving me in 6 years! In other words, it'll be on his tab.

 

Holy crap... I really can't believe his selfishness. He actually thought he was looking out for me too. I humored him and explained opportunity costs of paying twice as much as I would be paying and what I would do with my time and money if I had only my half of the bills to pay. He actually said, well if lets say my half of the bills is only $10k and you'll want $100k then no-way, I'd rather file for bankruptcy!

 

Goodness... everytime I start mourning I think of what he said last night and I'm left in disbelief. I'm curious though, does anyone know how to run the numbers including the opportunity costs?

 

I'm at home now since he says he'll be gone all day. He says he wants to help me move. Oh yeh, that's what he said, it's not like I don't care anymore and I'm saying you're on your own, I don't care. LOL.

 

I'm wondering when the shock will wear off.

[meanon]

I've just seen your earlier post. I'm so sorry, Wolvesbaned. I'm sure it's for the best though. Now it's more of the same - he's made his plans without discussing them with you. Get some legal advice quickly. Don't leave the apartment until you do. You are a free agent now and the fact that you may be able to live rent free with your mother, that you may be earning before him is none of his concern. Look after yourself and your interests. The shock will wear off, Wolvesbaned. Post again when it does. Meanwhile we are all thinking of you and wishing you well. Big Hugs

[CurlyIam]

He must have been thinking of this before your little chat, that's for sure. I am so sorry, you should be using this time to heal, not to be protecting yourself from him. Make sure you won't share any of your future plans and ... toughen up! We're here for you and this is no time to be ruining you life from a financial point of vue too. Tell us your strategy!!!

[Wolvesbaned]

I have no idea what to do. I'm just so drained... I feel like sleeping. I don't know where to start. I've found support through you all, friends and family, I'm so thankful. But I still don't know what to do or where to start. After our talk last night and later talking with him on the phone, it's obvious he hasn't really thought this out. The divorce part yes, but the details needed to go through it no.

 

Today it had hit me, the figuring out who gets what, all those damned memories. Everything in our little apartment is about us. The books we used to read to each other at the park, the souvenirs from the places we visited, the inside jokes of things we'd bought, the toys we won at the fair that's been neatly saved for our future children. How can I breath when every speck of this beautiful city is filled with memories of us? We used to explore this place together .. fishing at the lake, the zoo, the parks, the picnics, the random exploring. Every bit of this place has memories of us. And good memories at that! Damnnn this feeling. How do you learn to live again when the one you loved for so long doesn't love you back?

 

That should be an easy answer... god I hope it gets easier. I still can't understand how the same man that used to cherish me and that showed me how to love can do this to me now. We used to be such a sweet man --now he doesn't remember his roots, his heart, he pushed back his memories and emotions. It's like clockwork to him, if it doesn't make sense, then that's it. I don't get it.

 

Someone said I should be happy to have the memories that I have. But dammnit it makes it worse, it makes it harder. I should have known. Since January I saw a change but I just thought it was stress. How can someone just change like that?

 

I wish I can say that I don't love him anymore and that I don't care what happens to him. I know I need to look out for myself first, because apparently no one else is. But it's so hard to unlearn. It's so hard to let go and live.

[FolderWife]

I still can't understand how the same man that used to cherish me and that showed me how to love can do this to me now. We used to be such a sweet man --now he doesn't remember his roots, his heart, he pushed back his memories and emotions. It's like clockwork to him, if it doesn't make sense, then that's it. I don't get it.

 

People Change

 

I want to cry reading your last response. It's funny the things that you don't remember when you are arguing, but when you finalize and break up, then all the good times come flooding back, and you remember the person you fell in love with...not the person you are dealing with.

 

The best mechanism I've ever used for getting over a man (although I never had a relationship as serious as a five year marriage) is realizing that they are NOT the person that I fell in love with. They are someone different. It's like the person I LOVED is dead, and I'm with this person who looks like them, but is not them.

 

That is why I can never just leave my husband when he hurts me, because he doesn't stay that mean cruel person that I hate for very long...pretty soon the man that I fell in love with comes back, and apologizes for all the horrible things that the mean cruel person that I hate did....and I fall in love all over again.

 

Your husband has remained the mean cruel person for months, and it doesn't look like he's going to turn back into the man you fell in love with again any time soon. Maybe if you could grieve the loss of a loved one the way that I did, it would be easier. Just tell yourself that the man you LOVE is gone forever, and you can't get him back. That helps to move on, so you're not hanging on, and hoping and wishing to get him back. Then you can go through all your memories together and cry over the loss of your love, and not hope for a future.

 

It may not work for everyone, but the only way I can/could ever get over someone is to put out of my mind the hope of winning them back, and the only way for ME to do that, is to tell myself that the person I love does not exist.

 

I don't know if this makes any sense...after reading what you wrote, I feel soooooo bad. I wish there was ANYTHING that I could do to help you through this. I wish I could afford to give you a plane ticket, and tell you to come stay with me for a couple of weeks, to get away from that city, and the memories that are with it. Give you some time to breath! We could go shopping, or to the movies, and maybe hanging out with a girl buddy would make you feel less man deprived.

 

Do you have any girlfriends that you could hang out with? Do you have a couple of weeks you could take off and go somewhere to get away from the memories? I know that when you break up, everywhere you look is a memory! I had an apartment, and my boyfriend would visit every day...he'd cook dinner, he'd leave his clothes laying around when he took a shower, he watch my tv, he'd play video games, I'd listen for his car to pull in the drive....then when he left me, all of a sudden, everywhere I looked was HIM! The kitchen reminded me of dinners he'd make, the parking lot reminded me of seeing his car parked there, the television reminded me of him sitting there, EVERYTHING was a memory. I moved out 3 days after we broke up, because I couldn't breath in that place...everything was a memory of him.

 

That's why I feel so good that my husband and I live a couple of hours away from my family. If we break up, I can go home again, and not have to face every memory being of him.

 

Can you get off work? Will they understand that you are a going to be miserable, and therefore not very productive for a while? Could your mom, or your sister, or your cousin go somewhere with you? It's spring, the perfect time to go to the beach. Maybe you could just go camping for a few days or something...anything to get away from the memories. I know that the first few days are definately the hardest.

 

Do you have any hope of reconciling with your husband? Do you think that maybe he'll go crazy in the apartment with your memories? Do you think maybe he'll wake up and realize what he's losing!

 

OOOOOOOOoooooh, I pray that this works out for the best for you, wolvesbaned

[Samson]

Sorry Wolv. Obviously, you cared a lot for the guy.

 

But it seems just as apparent he did not care for you.

 

Stop "discussing" anything with him, and leave the fair division of debt and assets to a third party's decision as quickly as possible.

 

Final observation Wolv:

 

You are also obviously intelligent, and most likly have the strength to recover and thrive. Do not lose the ability to care for another person just because this has happened

 

You will be stronger.

[moimeme]

First thing to do is look out for yourself. That's what he's doing with all this BS about bankruptcy. Don't allow him to get away with leaving you with all the debt because of his sad tale of bankruptcy. He's a grownup and has to sort his own finances out. How dare he want you to nurture him financially while he goes his own way? If he goes bankrupt - oh well. It was his choice. Too bad he doesn't want a roommate - sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do to get by.

 

What I do to get over someone is make a list of the wretched things he has done. Some of your list is here and, from the way you've described his behaviour, I'm sure you have more. Whenever the impulse to think kindly of someone who has treated me badly returned, I reread my list and wised up.

 

As for people changing; I don't think they do. I think it just takes a long, long while to know some people's true self and we tend to fall in love with the half-picture without giving ourselves time to find out whether the rest of the picture fits.

[meanon]

god I hope it gets easier

 

It does. It takes time but you will get over him and live a happy life again. You will

[Samson]

Whenever the impulse to think kindly of someone who has treated me badly returned, I reread my list and wised up.

 

As for people changing; I don't think they do. I think it just takes a long, long while to know some people's true self and we tend to fall in love with the half-picture without giving ourselves time to find out whether the rest of the picture fits.

 

Thanks for the great coping tool, Moimeme. I suppose I'll begin my list today. Silly me, I've been simply forgetting the details when someone treats me badly instead of ruminating on them for the remainder of my life.

 

At least now I feel justified in hopelessness.

[moimeme]

You mistake my meaning, Samson. I don't believe people change for the worse. If someone is dishonest or has some other character flaw, s/he can hide it for a long time, especially if the object is to woo and win someone.

 

I'm not saying people can't change for the better if they want to. Of course they can and plenty do. However, that is because they have actively chosen to change a behaviour. I just cannot see someone who has always been honest deciding to become a liar and becoming one or someone who is kind and loving at heart choosing to become cruel and thoughtles. I think that people marry people who may behave kindly because behaving kindly will win someone over, but who may not be as kindhearted as they make themselves out to be. Eventually the true self emerges.

 

The other side of that picture is that people misunderstand each other. Husband behaves one way; wife interprets it as 'unloving', gets mad at husband. Husband, not understanding wife's distress, thinks wife is 'angry'. Again, nobody has changed but people react certain ways to certain behaviours.

[Thinkalot]

Wolvesbanned...I just read some of these last few posts. I'm so sorry. Look after yourself though...be strong, and things in time will get easier.

 

A big hug to you! and all my best wishes.

 

If you need any financial objective advice, PM me, as my partner is a financial advisor, and even though we are in Australia, he still may be able to offer you some suggestions and help.

[CurlyIam]

Dear Wolvesbaned,

 

I thought a lot over these days about you. It seems I also made the mistake of pressuring you to move on. I remembered the grieving period helped me a lot. Asking myself all the questions, crying, regretting, not understanding going through hell just to be able to let it go afterwards. Don't force yourself to not think about it. Remeber everything exactly: the hurt,the pain, the dissapointment... It's crucial, because there will be fall backs (you know what I mean) and you'll need to have this fresh in your mind in order to make the right choice.

 

Listen to your friend, Monday, take your time, make moime's list, be weak, but for God's sake, watch your back...

 

You have the suport of your family and friends, you will get over this and you will be ok. In the mean time we'll all be here for you, you can bet all your money on it (I know, bad joke ) Anyway, you get the picture.

[Wolvesbaned]

Hi all, I finally get to post after leaving and ironically I'm posting here at the apartment until I get my room situated. I'm permanently living at my Mom's house now, it's been that way since the talk, I've only seen him twice (counting today) since he's helped me clean out the room I'm taking over.

 

Shortly after his night of outright selfishness, he woke-up and tried to be fair. Till this day he still says it's not about his "friend" --and that they're just friends.

 

I wish I had more time to write post today but I just want to thank all of you for your kind thoughts and words! I'm actually doing OK. I'm handling this quite better than I'd imagined. I haven't pushed myself to recall, but I've just let myself be and it's worked so far because my stress level is much lower now. When memories come, I just let them, when I'm feeling bad, I paint (my new room --the color's Meadow Flower BTW).

 

All in all, I know I've come out a better person after this. For the first time in my life, I truly know how to love. I will be OK. Thanks guys .. group hug!

 

 

meanon You're words are always encouraging. Big Hugs!

 

moimeme "As for people changing; I don't think they do. I think it just takes a long, long while to know some people's true self and we tend to fall in love with the half-picture without giving ourselves time to find out whether the rest of the picture fits."

 

I've given myself a lot of time for peaceful reflection and he has done things in the past that hint at selfishness. This was just the first we've encountered it because we had usually wanted the same things. The outcome is what it is and I have to let go but I'm comfortable enough to still say that I love him. For me, it can't just dissipate as quickly as his decisions. But I'm comfortable with it.

 

Monday "Do you have any girlfriends that you could hang out with? Do you have a couple of weeks you could take off and go somewhere to get away from the memories? Can you get off work? Could your mom, or your sister, or your cousin go somewhere with you? Do you have any hope of reconciling with your husband? Do you think that maybe he'll go crazy in the apartment with your memories? Do you think maybe he'll wake up and realize what he's losing! "

 

I do have girlfriends but I've only really hung out once since I've been at my Mom's. I'm free to veg at another friend's place, but somehow I haven't stopped by. I'm at my last week of school now, and I'll have exactly 1 week break until summer session. My Mom and I have been talking about saving up money and visiting Hawaii, she has an orchid-grower she wants to visit and I'd love to just go --I've always wanted to visit there!

 

Samson "Do not lose the ability to care for another person just because this has happened"

I don't think I can ever lose that!

 

Thinkalot Thank you so much for offering. For now, it looks like everything is manageable. Big hugs!

 

CurlyIam Don't force yourself to not think about it. Remember everything exactly: the hurt,the pain, the dissapointment... It's crucial, because there will be fall backs (you know what I mean) and you'll need to have this fresh in your mind in order to make the right choice.

 

I don't regret one bit the amount of effort I had put into this. Though I will not make a moi's list, I have a fairly good memory. You're right, I will be OK, regardless of the amount of support I receive (from family that is). Thank you!

[Wolvesbaned]

P.S.

Hopefully by early next week, I'll have regular access the internet/computer and will get to post here again. I hope everything's doing well with all of you --have a great week!

 

"The place to be happy is here,

the time to be happy is now."

-- Robert Ingersoll

[Thinkalot]

So glad you are coping OK!! A big hug to you...take care. Best thoughts your way.

[FolderWife]

I'm glad everything is going ok for you I've been worried, since we haven't heard from you!

[sasa]

Originally posted by Monday

Yay~

 

I hear progress in the above posts! I understand a lot better too! You were uncomfortable with his contact with her, because you were jealous of the fact that SHE got to hang out with him, and YOU didn't (I understand, because I would be the same way). Therefore, because of your jealousy, you ended up nagging him (unintentionally of course, but you were feeling threatened, and therefore were unconciously trying to get him to stop doing what made you uncomfortable) and that caused him to turn to her MORE, because she didn't nag and nit pick! Then, like you said before, he quit communicating with you as much, so he wouldn't have so many "nits to pick"

 

It makes sense...I actually stopped communicating with my husband in a lot of ways, because he's such a nag.

 

So now I see the situation. If you can quit nagging and nit picking, and just relax and not be so high strung, like you were today, then he'll naturally start talking more to you, and less to her, because naturally he likes and prefers his cool wife, to this little *bleep bleep bleep bleep* "friend".

 

Yay girl! ~hugs~