I found the Heart of the matter

[Wolvesbaned]

OK I woke up this morning and realized what exactly we're actually doing. The chances of us being together after this is probably low, I know. But I would rather know his true feelings now than later. If it requires a pretend "break" of responsibilities, then be it. He needs to be forced to think about this now... we need to figure this out now... not years later when it'll be more convenient for him to do so and I've already done so much. In just a few months he'll be starting his career and it'll demanding - divorce is supposably not uncommon because of the stress. My reasons for writing that letter isn't completely unselfish. Before I get into something so demanding I think I should require certainty in his part.

 

I still love him. Regardless of everything said and done, I love him ... and this is why I'm doing this - for him and for me too. But we're stupid kids that don't really know what we're doing, but right now it has come to the point where something needed to be done. Resentment had kicked in for me too. And although we haven't tried counseling yet, in our mindset, I don't really think that would've worked for us right now. You have to know what you want before going into counseling, right? We were tired, exhausted to the point of not wanting to move.

 

Last night as we laid there and he told me how he felt, it was refreshing to hear us opening up again. I told him I don't regret a thing.

 

Like I said, I'll be realistic, I know that after experiencing freedom, its unlikely for anyone to want to be married again. Was he doing things because he had to or because he wanted to? In the real-world, sometimes we have to do things we don't want, we can't have it all our way, but at what extent? I should take this time to get myself together, to prepare.

[FolderWife]

This sounds like the hardest thing in the world. You are so strong!

[Wolvesbaned]

I made it through Day 1, it was hard and I did some crying but by the end of the night I was having fun and relaxing. It was a little empowering to be able to just relax again. We'll see how it continues.

[meanon]

Well done Wolvesbaned, I hope it gets a little easier for you.

 

I've been dreading life lately and I was at my wits end. I need a man that truly wants to be with me.

 

You could not have continued living like this and you had reached a total impasse - I think you took the only option left open to you.

 

I was able to write that letter because I was ready to let go.

 

Wolvesbaned, it sounds to me as though your husband blamed you for much of his dissatisfaction in life, if he was not so resentful he may well have been able to make the compromises necessary to make it work. If he does feel like this, it may be that the time apart will help him to let go of the past and make a fresh start, one that he has actively opted into.

 

I should take this time to get myself together, to prepare

 

I agree, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Whether you reconcile or separate, you have taken the steps you need to put your life back on the road to happiness.

[Wolvesbaned]

Break Day 2: We actually ended up hanging out with each other all day. We have similar interests so it was effortless and quite relaxing. Kind of just like friends spending the day, from visiting some computer stores to eating, to running a errand (something he never wants to do with me) to renting a movie. There was laughs and talk along the way but nothing serious. I guess when I said we are no longer friends, it didn't mean we didn't get along, it's basically just when we're angry, as being able to hang like this together isn't really surprising. We always shared common interests, and no matter what, no one can ever take that away from us. I was a little surprised because I thought he wanted "space" because I was "smothering" him, but I just followed his lead, and it was nice just being able to spend a day together without bickering.

 

Today (actually Day 3) I received my copy of "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman, a book my therapist suggested to me. Just by reading a third of the book it made obvious why I was so darn upset with his friendship. Yes, I always had trust issues, and I always knew his actions aggravated it but I could never fully communicate what it was I was feeling. It's almost as if I ever start to target it, the whole not being able to trust gets shoved down my throat along with guilt from my past mistakes. But it's obvious now --- I wasn't getting the expression of love that I needed and instead of just being without it -- it was given to someone else!

 

For instance, before their friendship I wasn't feeling appreciated, he was busy and didn't have time to do much for me. (According to the book my love language is Quality Time). Even though his study time with her was understandable, it was always something I would enjoy with him, but we didn't have time to do (meaning when his breaks fell in between a lunch). I always love to just eat with him and talk. When this last episode of him choosing a restaurant when she last took him out, I was pissed because I always wanted him to take the time out to look for a new place for us to go to. Again, his explanation is understandable, he has more time this quarter and never had the time to do this before. But geeez. When you do this kind of crap, you take your wife first. When I would feel awful with him chatting with her on AIM, it makes perfect sense now because I would like that type of connecting. I mean he communicates love with me in other ways, just not in my "love language".

 

To me it's obvious now why their friendship is a threat. No, nothing inappropriate ever occurred and even if his friend even hinted at flirting (or anything remotely close) he would stop it, but it wasn't that, it really isn't the case for me. I mean he still understands that a spouse should be the #1 confidant, and best friend, he hasn't showed me otherwise, except for the fact that he doesn't think how his "innocent" ways of communicating with his friend is not helping us, especially in the state we're in. When he starts sharing things with someone else that he doesn't share with me --and its the kind of regular 'ol stuff I actually long for, then there will be problems. There's a difference between having no trust and actually giving your spouse reason to feel insecure.

 

I know I'm trying to pinpoint a few things out of the whirl of events that unfolded, because in reality it is a cause and effect of both our actions. I can see how my nitpicking has led to him wanting to just chit chat and relax with someone else (either her or his males friends) but he should approach the matter in a more thoughtful way. I know I'm pointing fingers when I should just step back and recognize that we both perpetuated this. But I feel wronged and I don't know if I can just let this go.

[Wolvesbaned]

Crap, who am I kidding... I can let this go. All of his actions weren't calculated or intended to hurt me or exclude me. Even their last lunch meet, he told her, "It should be OK but he has to ask me first". It's my stupid decision to agree and later realize I couldn't deal with it.

 

He's napping right now and I won't talk to him about this. I think this is one of them "mediation times" for me. I've already taken the chill pill.

 

I will continue this Break thing and give him space to think. Afterall it's only been 3 days ...

[FolderWife]

Yay~

 

I hear progress in the above posts! I understand a lot better too! You were uncomfortable with his contact with her, because you were jealous of the fact that SHE got to hang out with him, and YOU didn't (I understand, because I would be the same way). Therefore, because of your jealousy, you ended up nagging him (unintentionally of course, but you were feeling threatened, and therefore were unconciously trying to get him to stop doing what made you uncomfortable) and that caused him to turn to her MORE, because she didn't nag and nit pick! Then, like you said before, he quit communicating with you as much, so he wouldn't have so many "nits to pick"

 

It makes sense...I actually stopped communicating with my husband in a lot of ways, because he's such a nag.

 

So now I see the situation. If you can quit nagging and nit picking, and just relax and not be so high strung, like you were today, then he'll naturally start talking more to you, and less to her, because naturally he likes and prefers his cool wife, to this little *bleep bleep bleep bleep* "friend".

 

Yay girl! ~hugs~

[Wolvesbaned]

Monday,

 

You were uncomfortable with his contact with her

Yes and I was very obvious about it but tried to understand by actually letting it happen

 

Therefore, because of your jealousy, you ended up nagging him (unintentionally of course, but you were feeling threatened, and therefore were unconsciously trying to get him to stop doing what made you uncomfortable)

My "nagging" was me trying to get him to think about the situation in another light - as in his or hers possible non-platonic intentions and when I would bring it up, it was very intentional. The problem with me is I never really asked him to stop being her friend because til this day he swares it's only a friendship.

 

that caused him to turn to her MORE, because she didn't nag and nit pick!

When this first started, they spent a lot of time with each other in school as is and yes, I do believe that our constant arguing is what opened him up to her even more.

 

Then, like you said before, he quit communicating with you as much

When this first started, our schedules were so jam-packed that we really didn't have too much time for each other already.

 

Now it's different. We have more time but I think one of the purposes of the "Break" is to stop the arguments and nitpicking on my end.

 

just relax and not be so high strung

I'm learning to just let some things go... but it's so hard when the "thing" means so much to you!

 

he'll naturally start talking more to you, and less to her, because naturally he likes and prefers his cool wife, to this little *bleep bleep bleep bleep* "friend"

Aww shucks girl, you're so sweet

[Wolvesbaned]

"The Goods"

I've been busy with school the last few days and this "Break", in a way has helped. For one, we're not arguing. We talk but about nothing serious but on Easter, while eating, we had a good chat, for me it was a bit of a heart-to-heart though what was said was very little and unrelated to what's going on now.

 

"The Bads"

But there are bads too. Although we sleep on the same bed, we don't touch, and our bed is small. There are times when I miss him so. It's a bit of a torture to be so close, but for some reason it's getting more and more soothing. Aside from having faith in his convictions, every night, to lay so close is all I have.

 

My thoughts

I've been able to sort out what's happened, I suppose detaching in a way gives me a chance for clarity. My conclusion as of today is:

 

1 This man had taught me love in so many ways in the past, it's no wonder why I feel a loss.

2 How do people get over things? I'm torn by my love and hope for us and my disappointment. The thought, "This shouldn't have happened in the first place" is in the back of my mind. I've heard and read about couples getting over all kinds of things, and compared to my situation, mine really isn't so bad but I just don't know how to let these kinds of things go.

[Samson]

Sorry for the hiatus in reply

 

 

 

I can see how my nitpicking has led to him wanting to just chit chat and relax with someone else (either her or his males friends) but he should approach the matter in a more thoughtful way.

 

GREAT!

 

How do people get over things? I'm torn by my love and hope for us and my disappointment. The thought, "This shouldn't have happened in the first place" is in the back of my mind. I've heard and read about couples getting over all kinds of things, and compared to my situation, mine really isn't so bad but I just don't know how to let these kinds of things go.

 

Getting over things, means forgiving, not forgetting. Some prople never seem to "get over" anything, other's cannot remember what happened last week, good, bad, or ugly. IMHO it is a function of whatever other priorities we have. Those that have little more to do than watch daytime TV, eat bon-bons, and have a manicure, seem to have much less time to forgive than those working 12 hour days.

[Wolvesbaned]

Hey Samson,

 

How's it going? Hopefully things are better. It's good to hear from you

[Wolvesbaned]

I'm preparing for the worst. Yesterday I broke 8 days of peace by asking where he was at. Which of coarse he reacted defensively and lead to him hang up on me. I wrote him a note saying I did not want to talk because I'm afraid it would end up in argument. I apologized for breaking our agreement and communicated that it was disrespectful of him to hang up and that I would rather have had a reminder (it was said casually, in conversation BTW).

 

But no apology. He actually said I deserved it because I did not want to get off the phone --though I was very calm and there was a long moment of silence. Of coarse he remembers the conversation as something else. It's like all he has to say is I don't want to talk and cut me off in mid-sentence and if I finish my thought, I'm already giving him a hard time.

 

He obviously doesn't want to work with me. Today he actually said that all I think about is myself and can't respect him for not wanting to talk. He says I keep on hurting him by not respecting his wishes. 8 days 1 slight mention, before the break, 2 arguments about things that didn't fit about him going out that I initiated. How is this excessive?

 

He also says that when I say things like "When you do this it makes me feel bad..." it's a put-down. Isn't that how I'm supposed to phrase things? Prompting the break, he said I was smothering him, but we hardly talked even then. Doesn't smothering actually require some kind of contact? Just tonight he said I "keep on breaking our agreement" when it only happened once.

 

I don't get it. I don't get him.

[Wolvesbaned]

I guess his whole integrity bit is shot to hell.

[Samson]

The more I read, the more it sounds as if this relationship should end expidiciously and with extreme prejudice.

How is this excessive?

 

Even I, Wolf, proponent of a man's right to privacy and to pease away fro the constant prying of women who wage an iquisative war to ferret out all real and imagined details of our activities, malevolent and benign, see that 8 days is more than enough time to be alone.

 

You are also "phrasing things" the right way. How you are "putting him down" by letting him know what effect his action has had on your feelings is incomprehensable. You are not judging him, or the activity, you are simply letting him know how you feel. He can continue to do it if he wants to make yuo feel badly, or he can choose to stop.

 

The balls, however apparently small, appear to be in his court.

[meanon]

I know you also both need a break from the conflict but still, to maintain that asking him to talk to you is not respecting his wishes and is therefore hurtful appears to me to be manipulative in the extreme. I think you are at the point where you need to communicate the minimum you can live with and that you will give him time to make similar compromises (without pressure) but that he can't expect to maintain the relationship entirely on his own terms.

 

For your part you are right, you need to let go of the past if there is to be any prospect of reconciliation. You've come a long way in compromising on your fundamentals. There's little more you can do other than trying to get him to address the problems in a constructive manner. Don't accept rules that mean you are never heard, that what you think doesn't matter. You matter - Wolvesbaned - it's time for him to acknowledge that or for you to consider whether you would be happier without him.

[Wolvesbaned]

That last incident really hurt me. It had brought up feelings of anger, loss and that old knee-jerk reaction of not wanting to lose him. When he says things like that I feel like a kid, helpless. But just before the "break" I was the one ready and (at least I thought) I was prepared to move on --I even prompted it, numerous times. Now I don't know anymore because so few little words changed all of it.

 

I told my Mom the other day to not feel bad for me. That this love I have for him isn't just gonna go away and regardless I will hurt. That it's a reminder that I'm alive. But it doesn't mean that I don't know when to walk away. As much as I love him I know there's a line ... and his little comments that act as manipulation crosses it.

 

I'm still wavering between being appalled by his actions and longing for him and I know I need to stop. Focus my thoughts on exercise, they say --I do need to do that.

 

My Mom didn't understand it when I told her I dream of him. When we first started the break, I had so many things I wanted to tell him, but I knew he wasn't ready to hear them, so I kept quite and spoke only of everyday things. We don't touch anymore, in fact the last time was a handshake to seal our deal. After a few days I'd noticed that I would dream of telling him the things that were on my mind and we would hold hands, hugs and kiss like we used to. When those dreams first started it seemed so real that I would actually think it did happen. Only to remember that it couldn't have. This continued for about 3 or 4 days. It's hard because we were very affectionate and although I've branched out and reunited with my family and friends, he was the only one there for me for so many years.

 

I try to remind myself how I was before we met. I never sought affection, that its just another response that'll just mess me up. That who he was before is different from who he has become.

 

As for my minimum requirements, I had already written them down and that was what I wanted to present to him on the 9th day. Maybe I will go running. These thoughts will still be here when I get back

[meanon]

Wolvesbaned - I'm not sure this is doing you any good. Being so close to him and not being "allowed" to love him. That sounds so hard.

[Wolvesbaned]

He says he needs some space to sort things out, so I'm giving it to him. We haven't talked yet, I think I'll wait until after Thursday at least before I give him my reqs. I have a hunch though --that he figured out he just wants to be single. I don't know how I know, but as of today... that's my guess.

 

We'll see...

[meanon]

Good luck, Wolvesbaned. I hope it goes well

[Samson]

Haven't changed my opinion. You need to make plans without this guy.

[FolderWife]

[Wolvesbaned]

I miss him like crazy. I still have hope. I kept myself busy all day yesterday and didn't come home until late that night, to give him space, us space to think and be. I need to keep myself busy, it helps... I smile, joke, function again. It's just today it seems that my anger has all but dissipated.

 

When I'm feeling like this I have to be even more mindful of my actions. I'm a caveman of sorts when I want something --I need to work on my finesse. If I react now, it cancels out all I'd written to him. He can't continue to take me for granted. He can't think it's OK to treat me like that. But somehow I have to communicate that I still care, because I do --though (I know) he should already know.

 

How do you balance?

1. Respect for yourself

2. Respect for him

3. Your happiness

4. His happiness

5. Working on your marriage

6. Doing the right thing

 

The answer is just love, isn't it? *Sigh*

[CurlyIam]

well... it usually takes two to tango...

[sami]

It all depends on your mutual understanding of the term " sacrifice". What it means to both of you and what is that you are talking about. You both can draw your own lines as equal partners in this relationship.

[meanon]

How do you balance?

1. Respect for yourself

2. Respect for him

3. Your happiness

4. His happiness

5. Working on your marriage

6. Doing the right thing

 

Lol we ALL wish we knew the answers to those, Wolvesbaned. It must depend on the personalities of the people involved and their values. For me mutual respect means being generous, compassionate, constructive. Balancing yours and his happiness means allowing the other person to pursue what makes them happy but expecting them to compromise if it makes you dreadfully unhappy. Working on the marriage - yes that's important but you both have to be prepared to give for it to work. Doing the right thing - sometimes that's the most difficult one of all. When to stay and give it all you've got, when to call it a day.