Is it time to end this relationship?

[Zapbasket]

We've been dating nearly a year now. Almost from the get-go, there were some dynamics that concerned me; I posted about that here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t233040/

 

Since then, some things have improved, and we've gotten to know each other...but the underlying antagonism that I elaborated a bit in the thread above has remained. From my perspective it has prevented us from getting closer except insofar as spending more time together makes people "closer" a.k.a. more familiar with and knowledgeable about each other.

 

Our rate of arguments has increased. We go along for 4 or 5 days and then something happens that dissolves everything into pure unpleasantness.

 

When I've called him out on his behaviors--for example, the behaviors I discuss in my previous thread--he has always listened to me, and I can see he tries to make changes. But then we're right back where we started. He says it's because I am unable to let go of some of the "mistakes" he made (again, that I discuss in my previous thread) early in the relationship. I say that it's not that I'm unwilling or unable to let go of those things, but that those things never seem fully to go away.

 

Back in the early months of the relationship, I felt I was truly on my best behavior, and so his behavior felt particularly uncalled for. Since then, after repeat instances, I finally blew my top, more than once, and so now I feel totally implicated in the things that go wrong.

 

I'm now afraid of ending it for fear it's me causing things to go wrong. I've told him I just can't feel safe with him; I have had a gnawing instinct that his insecurities and mistrust comprise a "structural" problem that just isn't going to get better with time...and yet I've held onto hope that both of us being good, intelligent, kind people will help us see a way to the kind of relationship I really want. And yet now I'm feeling it's only getting worse, and I'm feeling confused and sad, like once again I have failed at a relationship, once again my partner doesn't cherish me enough to treat me like a true and dear friend, and I'm just feeling hopeless all round. While also feeling this nagging sense that the responsibility for how things have transpired lies much more with him than with me.

 

I don't know what the right thing is to do. I try to tell him how I feel, and he listens, but he doesn't agree with me that the relationship should end. Which is comforting on one level, but then it keeps me holding on, hoping.

 

I haven't been on this board much as my job and my life after work keeps me off of the computer much of the time, so apologies for not being much of a presence here and then popping in with an issue. I really value the opinions on this site and so I appreciate any thoughts and advice.

[Eeyore79]

This is a tricky one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read it seems that he's a reasonably decent guy, doesn't cheat or abuse you, and since you haven't complained about these things I assume he's attractive, employed, ok in bed, etc. Your main complaint seems to be that he teases you and puts you down, thus making you feel hurt and insecure.

 

I think on the whole your relationship probably isn't bad, but you're getting so upset by this particular ongoing issue that it's become this huge thing that really upsets you. Not only do you feel like he's inconsiderate for teasing you, you also feel like he's inconsiderate for ignoring your concerns; you've told him the situation makes you unhappy but he's still doing it. You're getting to the point where you're thinking about dumping him because you find his inconsiderate behavior to be so hurtful; it essentially makes you feel like he doesn't love you.

 

Since (from what I've gathered) the relationship seems otherwise good, I wouldn't recommend that you dump him just yet. However I think you need to sit him down and tell him that you find his behavior hurtful, and it makes you feel unloved and insecure. It will be tricky to do this without making him defensive, so you really need to try not to be critical and just explain how it makes you feel. Tell him the situation needs to change if your relationship is to continue, and tell him you want to work on the issue with him. Ask him why he behaves like this - does he feel insecure, or does he not love you, or is there something in his past which makes him feel uncomfortable about being loving and caring? The key is to figure out why he's doing this and work together on fixing the problem from the very root.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for the advice, Eeyore. I just wish I knew how to convey how much his antagonistic behaviors hurt me. I have tried, but it feels like every time it goes like this:

 

1. N. acts in a way that is hurtful

2. I, feeling blindsided and alienated by the sudden unpleasantness in what is usually a nice time out or at home, react with surprise and hurt.

3. At first, he is very defensive.

4. His defensiveness makes me more hurt and sometimes at this stage I say something sarcastic in response to feeling despair that he will ever treat me with the warmth and care characteristic of a dear friend.

5. He reacts to my sarcasm and the whole situation escalates.

6. I end up in tears, he ends up super-pissed.

7. Somehow after that cycle has transpired we both calm down and he is receptive to hearing what I have to say, and I to what he has to say.

8. He apologizes for the insensitive behavior that started this cycle.

9. A few days pass where things are okay.

10. Cycle begins again.

 

It's not just that he'll tease, but also that he'll act in an antagonistic way, like grabbing or poking me over and over, or just being contrary. It's never vicious, just really annoying. He's gotten better with it but it still comes out and when it does my heart sinks and I feel hopeless.

[Eeyore79]

No disrespect, but it sounds to me like you have difficulties with discussing things calmly and resolving problems. The trick is to talk to him when he's not being hurtful, when you're both feeling happy and loving, and are in a good frame of mind to resolve any problems.

 

What usually happens in such situations is as you described: you accuse him, he becomes defensive, you feel invalidated and even more hurt, and you end up having a huge argument. This is why you need to discuss the problem when you're not mad or upset. Maybe if I explain how I handle such things it might help?

 

My usual strategy is this: I cuddle my bf and tell him he's wonderful, and point out all the great things he does for me. Then I say there's this one little issue I want to discuss, and I'd really appreciate it if he could listen because it's important to me. Then I explain "When you do X, I feel Y. You're a great guy and I know you don't mean to hurt me; I'd really appreciate it if we could make some changes so I don't feel like that. You're such a great boyfriend, and I know you care enough to do this for me". This strategy usually means he's receptive and not defensive, so he actually listens and is keen to address whatever issue I've raised. ("You're right, I am a great guy! Of course I can do that for you honey!").

 

Afterwards I thank him for listening, and tell him he's such a great boyfriend because he really listens and cares about the things that are important to me. I then have to avoid yelling at him about the issue again; if he does the same thing I just say calmly "Honey, I love you but you know it hurts me when you do that, and you promised not to", which usually results in him being apologetic.

 

Yes, perhaps it's a little manipulative, but it works. I basically tell him he's such a great guy that I'm sure he wouldn't mind addressing this one little thing just to make me feel better, and I'm so grateful that he listens and cares about me. Its non-critical, non-argumentative, and he comes out of it feeling like he's a great boyfriend for doing this for me. Yelling gets you nowhere, and this type of strategy works for me every time

[Alma Mobley]

I checked out your other thread for background, and I have to say, why are you still with this abuser? You seem like such a smart and grounded woman, but you put with this. Does he still yell "f you!" when he's angry?

[Zapbasket]

No disrespect, but it sounds to me like you have difficulties with discussing things calmly and resolving problems. The trick is to talk to him when he's not being hurtful, when you're both feeling happy and loving, and are in a good frame of mind to resolve any problems.

 

What usually happens in such situations is as you described: you accuse him, he becomes defensive, you feel invalidated and even more hurt, and you end up having a huge argument. This is why you need to discuss the problem when you're not mad or upset. Maybe if I explain how I handle such things it might help?

 

My usual strategy is this: I cuddle my bf and tell him he's wonderful, and point out all the great things he does for me. Then I say there's this one little issue I want to discuss, and I'd really appreciate it if he could listen because it's important to me. Then I explain "When you do X, I feel Y. You're a great guy and I know you don't mean to hurt me; I'd really appreciate it if we could make some changes so I don't feel like that. You're such a great boyfriend, and I know you care enough to do this for me". This strategy usually means he's receptive and not defensive, so he actually listens and is keen to address whatever issue I've raised. ("You're right, I am a great guy! Of course I can do that for you honey!").

 

Afterwards I thank him for listening, and tell him he's such a great boyfriend because he really listens and cares about the things that are important to me. I then have to avoid yelling at him about the issue again; if he does the same thing I just say calmly "Honey, I love you but you know it hurts me when you do that, and you promised not to", which usually results in him being apologetic.

 

Yes, perhaps it's a little manipulative, but it works. I basically tell him he's such a great guy that I'm sure he wouldn't mind addressing this one little thing just to make me feel better, and I'm so grateful that he listens and cares about me. Its non-critical, non-argumentative, and he comes out of it feeling like he's a great boyfriend for doing this for me. Yelling gets you nowhere, and this type of strategy works for me every time

 

Eeyore, thanks so much for your reply. I read it several days ago and have been mulling it over. I agree that I apparently don't communicate effectively when things bother me. My pattern, in my current relationship as well as previous ones, is that in the beginning I put up with pretty much everything. Even if it hurts me a little or bothers me, I won't necessarily say anything because I'm still trying to get a sense of who the person is, and if I am intrigued by them, I tend to give a wide benefit of doubt. Then, gradually, if the annoying or hurtful behavior doesn't abate, I start to speak up. At first I'm very level, e.g., "When you do this, it makes me feel..." Two relationships ago my big issue was that I found my partner utterly non-communicative about important things. At first with him I just took it in stride, telling myself that maybe I needed to learn how to better handle silences from other people. Then, when I realized that some of his reticence was just plain hurtful, I explained to him how it made me feel. My previous relationship, my initial issue was that my partner often said very derogatory things about women and his past relationships. It bothered me more and more and finally I spoke up about it, calmly telling him how much it disturbed me to hear him convey such attitudes about women and relationships. Both men said they understood, but the behavior continued, until finally I just got so frustrated I started to lose it. I'd get snappish; I'd argue with them; and eventually, feeling unheard, I would end up yelling to make my point heard. All that got me was them deeming me utterly unreasonable.

 

The pattern repeats in my current relationship. I found him somewhat rude and boorish and insensitive at times, from the beginning of the relationship, but at first I chose to wait and see how it would all play out. When that behavior never went away, I began calling him out on it, gently at first, but from the get-go I'd find myself in utterly ridiculous arguments with him as I tried to convey my point. For example, back last June when I desperately tried to convey to him, days after the fact after mulling things over first, that his peeing in the shower in our first shower together and joking that he "was peeing on me," and then when I jumped back and indicated disgust he told me to calm down and be quiet as the neighbors might hear, he argued back to me that "he didn't *actually* pee on me, just *joked* that he was peeing on me while he was peeing in the shower with me there." And I got so frustrated and annoyed and my tone conveyed it; I protested that that was not the point; that at best it was utterly unromantic and tactless and disrespectful; and at worst it was downright disgusting. And at the time he broke down and agreed and apologized...but months later when it came up again in an argument, he AGAIN pointed out that he hadn't actually peed on me. This was several weeks ago and I just went through the roof. And now that I've yelled at him, he can use on me that "I need to control my temper." Which is true; I don't feel good when I yell...but then I find myself acknowledging that I need to try not to yell to make my feelings known while never seeming to fully convey just how absurd it was that he'd still, months later, be quibbling about the peeing in the shower incident. And I feel again hopeless, because the fact that he'd still try after this time to justify his behavior in our first shower together shows that he just doesn't get how very offensive I found it. He'll say he gets it, but then he turns around and shows me with his actions that he completely does not.

 

I'm really at a loss. We had another fight last night until 2 a.m. and I almost ended it with him, but by then I was just too tired to go through with it. I told him in the course of our argument that I needed him to be more sensitive and romantic, that I felt unsafe in the relationship with him and felt that while in his own way he loved me, it nevertheless results in my feeling unloved and uncherished because he can so often be so boorish in his behavior, despite so many, many times of my pointing it out to him. So, today I receive a lunchtime text from him saying how he loves me and I'm his star, etc., and I feel unmoved at this point. Those compliments and romantic gestures only come after we've had an argument and he's trying to supplicate himself to me. It's not the status quo and so I feel it's disingenuous when he does it. And I feel bad; he'll say, "Maybe I'm not good enough for you," and I'm starting to feel that that's the truth. But simultaneously I feel terrible that I make someone feel that way; he deserves to feel good in a relationship just as I do. But I feel like he just keeps on making the same mistakes, and then getting mad at me for pointing out that it's the same thing over and over and over, ad nauseum.

 

I'm feeling like I want out but I want to know I've done all I can, truly, first.

[Zapbasket]

Given my complaints on LS throughout this relationship, I know it might seem ridiculous that I'm still hanging on. Here's why, or at least one reason why: unlike other partners I've had, he shows no signs of wanting to give up. He even suggested yesterday that we go together to see a counselor about our communication. His intentions are genuine, I feel, and (sadly) he does try to be more sensitive...I say "sadly" because even despite these efforts he can be such a clod about seemingly basic things and leaving me baffled that he doesn't know how to behave better--especially when I SEE him behave wonderfully and charmingly with other people, and when his whole family is as absolutely lovely as they are. I've asked him why he can be on such good behavior with others and never seem to get it with me, and he says it's because he always feels on edge with me, afraid that if he says the wrong thing I'm going to get upset.

 

I feel awful that he feels that way...but at the same time I don't think that's the only reason since his "on edge-ness" was present from the beginning, resulting in insensitive behavior time after time. I've proposed that perhaps he doesn't love me enough for me to inspire him to be on his better behavior, and he protests that that absolutely is not the case.

 

Anyway, he sticks with it and he tries, and I've always said that that matters more to me than whether someone behaves ideally all the time (which of course no one can achieve). But paradoxically that makes me feel as much like I maybe should end it as it makes me want to give it more more chances, since it seems like I'm always offended by some totally insensitive comment of his, or action...and I know that can't feel good on his end.

 

...Except insofar as I feel he thrives on pushing it to my limit for some reason. I pointed that out to him yesterday and he denied it and I gave up; I'm not his psychologist nor should I try to be. I'm increasingly feeling like I'm wanting him to be someone he isn't, someone more sensitive, mannerly, and less abrasive. And that's not fair to him. But when I've suggested that to him as a reason for perhaps going our separate ways, he doesn't agree.

[sunshinegirl]

Oh GreenCove, so sorry for your situation.

 

My advice is short and sweet: end it.

 

You've spent A YEAR trying to sort this out. You HAVE given it your best effort. Sorry to say that I do not think therapy is going to help enough for your dynamic together to fundamentally change.

 

Him still being defensive a year later about the peeing incident is really all the information you need: after a year, he still fundamentally disregards and disrespects your feelings. Veiled as a joke or not, that is some seriously undermining stuff for a relationship. I would never ever tolerate that from my husband.

 

I may have said this before: I do think at times your level of sensitivity to things is higher than most people, and maybe at times it gets in your way.

 

But so what? This guy doesn't accept you as you are. And you don't accept him as he is. And you have been trying to gymnastically twist yourself around this basic fact for a year and it's not working.

 

Please do something good for your mental and emotional health and end this thing. Healthy relationships, IMO, are not stressful to this degree.

 

(((hugs)))

[Els]

....Okay. Are the bf and I the only ones who actually both pee in the shower when we're in it together and don't mind it? We've both done the pee joke thing too and both laughed - it's a JOKE. So you minded it, and he apologized, okay.

 

Why did you bring it up in an argument months later anyway? It should have been over and done by then. Surely you cannot blame him for being defensive about it months later when you were the one who brought it up months later?

 

Not saying that anything else he did is okay (sorry, I mainly skimmed through your posts and didn't find any other concrete examples of what he did wrong, but that definitely doesn't mean they don't exist). But I'm still struggling to understand how you find it so very insensitive of him to be defensive over something that you brought up months later when you shouldn't have. It was just one silly joke, for pete's sake - a poor and tasteless joke in your opinion, but still!

Edited March 13, 2011 by Elswyth

[heartshaped]

I don't think the two of you have communication issues. I think the two of you have individual issues that need to be worked on before the two of you can become a healthy, functioning couple. Even if the two of you were to part ways, you aren't going to be in a healthy, functioning relationship until you deal with your issues; that's just the bottom line.

 

As for this guy, I just want to ask you a simple question, do you like him? No, not do you love him, but do you like him? Do you like who he is as a person? He isn't at all the sensitive man that you sound like you are looking for I'll tell you that. One of your biggest problems is on some levels you are expecting him to change who he is. This guy has a joking type of personality. It's who he is. Yes, sometimes he goes a bit far and that is something he needs to work out, but overall, he is the type of person that jokes a lot and mostly at others expense. If you can't deal with that, please end things for your sake and his.

 

You are overly sensitive as well and that's something that you need to work out to have a successful relationship with anyone because people aren't going to coddle you just because you might get offended. But I think a huge problem of yours is knowing when you are being overly sensitive and when something is a real issue that needs to be discussed.

 

Both of you sound like you have a bit of trouble handling arguments and discussions as well. Yelling, swearing, name calling, bringing up past issues etc isn't conductive. Don't tolerate it and don't do it. If you feel yourself getting upset during a discussion or see that your partner is getting upset end the discussion. Continuing is only going to damage to your relationship and nothing will be resolved besides.

 

I have to ask you also why are the two of you still arguing about this issue? You both acknowledged that this was a problem early on. It doesn't need to keep being discussed, it needs to be worked out. Action needs to be taken on both sides and then, after a period of time if things don't improve things need to be ended.

 

This isn't just his problem and I feel that you have been pushing this off to him like he needs to change his behavior completely and you need to do nothing; that isn't true. In some instances you have mentioned, you are clearly being oversensitive and in others, he is crossing the line, but both of you need to where the line is, what is okay and isn't and I think that's where you both are struggling.

 

I think you both could benefit from some counseling if the two of you are unable to resolve these issues on your own.

[xxoo]

Thanks for the advice, Eeyore. I just wish I knew how to convey how much his antagonistic behaviors hurt me. I have tried, but it feels like every time it goes like this:

 

1. N. acts in a way that is hurtful

2. I, feeling blindsided and alienated by the sudden unpleasantness in what is usually a nice time out or at home, react with surprise and hurt.

3. At first, he is very defensive.

4. His defensiveness makes me more hurt and sometimes at this stage I say something sarcastic in response to feeling despair that he will ever treat me with the warmth and care characteristic of a dear friend.

5. He reacts to my sarcasm and the whole situation escalates.

6. I end up in tears, he ends up super-pissed.

7. Somehow after that cycle has transpired we both calm down and he is receptive to hearing what I have to say, and I to what he has to say.

8. He apologizes for the insensitive behavior that started this cycle.

9. A few days pass where things are okay.

10. Cycle begins again.

 

It's not just that he'll tease, but also that he'll act in an antagonistic way, like grabbing or poking me over and over, or just being contrary. It's never vicious, just really annoying. He's gotten better with it but it still comes out and when it does my heart sinks and I feel hopeless.

 

Have you tried responding in a completely different way?

 

I'd just respond with a bored "That's enough, Dr. Jeckyl" (or another reference that H would understand immediately). It will point out how often he does this stuff, without getting into a big discussion about it OR showing that he's "gotten your goat".

 

I agree with pp that you need to stop bring up old issues.

[PinkInTheLimo]

GreenCove, I registered specifically to be able to reply to you. What you write hits a nerve with me because I recognize it very well from a previous relationship. I have also read your other topic.

 

In my opinion, your boyfriend is a verbal abuser and although it is subtle, it is abuse nevertheless.

You see, I would think that in a relationship, you care for each other and therefore you do not hurt each other on purpose. I once had a colleague who also made these "teasing" remarks which were hurtful (she knew damn well where my sensitivities were). When I told her I did not like a specific remark, she told me I had too long toes. My answer was: "Well, that is possible but why do you feel the need to step on them?"

 

You said that your boyfriend told you that when he feels he gets under your skin, he feels the need to "tease" you even more. I think that that is a very bad sign.

 

Basically, the question is not whether you are too sensitive. You are who you are. If the relationship often makes you feel bad and hurt, than step out of it.

 

This behaviour is going to get worse, remember, you are only together for a year, it will be worse in the future.

 

Read the books by Patricia Evans and Lundy Bancroft.

[Zapbasket]

Sunshinegirl, thanks so much for your thoughts. (((hugs)))

 

Him still being defensive a year later about the peeing incident is really all the information you need: after a year, he still fundamentally disregards and disrespects your feelings. Veiled as a joke or not, that is some seriously undermining stuff for a relationship. I would never ever tolerate that from my husband.

 

You have touched here on what I've been thinking, too. I feel like I got to this bad place in the relationship precisely because I DID tolerate his bad behavior in the beginning. I tolerated it by virtue of staying; despite all the times I tried to tell him how bad some of his behaviors made me feel, I still "condoned," implicitly, all his actions by staying on even as he figuratively continued to slap me in the face with rudeness and "joking" that sometimes wafts into the hostility camp, albeit in a very subtle way. I guess I kept thinking that he would care enough to change once he understood the negative impact some of his behaviors was having on me.

 

I may have said this before: I do think at times your level of sensitivity to things is higher than most people, and maybe at times it gets in your way.

 

Yeah, and that's why I have such a hard time drawing firm boundaries with people: when am I being "oversensitive," and when do I have a legitimate right to be upset? Each time N. has teased me, been irritable with me, been inexplicably antagonistic seemingly with no provocation on my part, I have to wonder if maybe I'm reading things wrong. Then I wonder why I feel so uncomfortable and unsafe. I want to believe that's my spidey sense kicking in, telling me to get out of this relationship before I get any more involved...and in my gut that *is* what I think. I mean, I have felt a combination of baffled and confused throughout this entire relationship: baffled, because I have not been able to understand or discern the source of his vague hostility in so many of his actions; confused, because then I wonder if I must be reading it wrong since it doesn't make sense.

 

And then, in my gut, I feel it's as you say, that

 

Healthy relationships, IMO, are not stressful to this degree.

 

Surely, if I find myself feeling unsafe and disrespected even while he can be sweet with me and he tells me how much he loves me, surely that's more than just my "oversensitivity" kicking in?

[Zapbasket]

....Okay. Are the bf and I the only ones who actually both pee in the shower when we're in it together and don't mind it? We've both done the pee joke thing too and both laughed - it's a JOKE. So you minded it, and he apologized, okay.

 

Why did you bring it up in an argument months later anyway? It should have been over and done by then. Surely you cannot blame him for being defensive about it months later when you were the one who brought it up months later?

 

Not saying that anything else he did is okay (sorry, I mainly skimmed through your posts and didn't find any other concrete examples of what he did wrong, but that definitely doesn't mean they don't exist). But I'm still struggling to understand how you find it so very insensitive of him to be defensive over something that you brought up months later when you shouldn't have. It was just one silly joke, for pete's sake - a poor and tasteless joke in your opinion, but still!

 

I agree that we shouldn't still be talking about the pee incident. What initially got me about it wasn't the fact that he conceived of peeing in the shower with me and joked that he was actually peeing ON me. It was how dismissive he was at the time of my negative reaction to it. He right off the bat said, "Oh, quit it; it's not that big of a deal." And that's always his answer whenever I indicate any form of displeasure or hurt at any of his comments or actions. He brought up the pee incident again all these months later, once again saying he didn't *actually* pee on me. And I couldn't BELIEVE that he still was on that and moreover, that he still didn't get that what upset me most about that and so many of his behaviors was that there was no room for me to dislike any of them. I *must* find everything funny, otherwise I'm "oversensitive."

 

I can totally see how two people familiar with one another could pee together in the shower and it wouldn't pose any offense to either party. It's not my cup of tea but if N. had just apologized off the bat when he saw it disturbed me, this would have not been a big deal at all.

 

I also agree that past incidents should never be brought up in a discussion. Throughout this relationship I have felt at a loss for how to convey to him how much some of his behaviors bother me. I think I'm being very articulate and clear...and it seems he's listening and understands what I'm saying...but then we're always back at the same place.

[Zapbasket]

Heartshaped, thank you for all you say here. I have taken your comments very much to heart.

 

I don't think the two of you have communication issues. I think the two of you have individual issues that need to be worked on before the two of you can become a healthy, functioning couple. Even if the two of you were to part ways, you aren't going to be in a healthy, functioning relationship until you deal with your issues; that's just the bottom line.

 

I think I don't know how to recognize off the bat when a relationship is hopelessly unhealthy. My stepfather treated me very badly when I was growing up, and I never experienced a loving, nurturing, supportive relationship with an influential male figure. I know that another woman would have walked the instant N. acted the way he did from the beginning. I kept excusing his bad behavior even while I kept feeling unsafe, and I think I tolerated that dichotomy because that was what I had to do to survive sharing a house with my stepfather all those years until college.

 

As for this guy, I just want to ask you a simple question, do you like him? No, not do you love him, but do you like him? Do you like who he is as a person? He isn't at all the sensitive man that you sound like you are looking for I'll tell you that. One of your biggest problems is on some levels you are expecting him to change who he is. This guy has a joking type of personality. It's who he is. Yes, sometimes he goes a bit far and that is something he needs to work out, but overall, he is the type of person that jokes a lot and mostly at others expense. If you can't deal with that, please end things for your sake and his.

 

I do like him. He comes off at first as a very friendly, level person with the kind of quirky sense of humor I really appreciate. That's what hooked me in. As soon as we began to establish a relationship, these negative behaviors appeared. Joking that kept going too far and had a vague hint of hostility a lot of the time. Complete dismissal of my feelings (e.g., "Quit being so sensitive") whenever I spoke up about words or behaviors of his I didn't like. Random impulses to squeeze, grab, poke, or prod me when we're sitting together on the couch, say, that also seem to contain a vague angst or hostility. Irritability. These are the behaviors I've called him out on time and again and that I increasingly find myself unable to tolerate.

 

You are overly sensitive as well and that's something that you need to work out to have a successful relationship with anyone because people aren't going to coddle you just because you might get offended. But I think a huge problem of yours is knowing when you are being overly sensitive and when something is a real issue that needs to be discussed.

 

Yes, that's a BIG problem. I don't know where or when to draw the line. I doubt myself even though my instincts have been spot-on EVERY TIME. I'm not sure how to work on this. With this guy, I felt like I entered the relationship with my eyes wide open...and yet I somehow ended up in the same unhappy place despite myself.

 

Both of you sound like you have a bit of trouble handling arguments and discussions as well. Yelling, swearing, name calling, bringing up past issues etc isn't conductive. Don't tolerate it and don't do it. If you feel yourself getting upset during a discussion or see that your partner is getting upset end the discussion. Continuing is only going to damage to your relationship and nothing will be resolved besides.

 

I regret that I finally began to lose my cool with him. I just got so frustrated over time that he didn't seem to *get it* despite so many times of my patiently explaining to him how badly some of his behaviors have made me feel. I guess because the bottom line is that he just doesn't respect me on some fundamental level, a level of which he perhaps is not even aware. And there's just no negotiating or arguing with that. Perhaps the only thing to have done, after numerous times of trying to have a mature discussion with him, was to just leave?

 

This isn't just his problem and I feel that you have been pushing this off to him like he needs to change his behavior completely and you need to do nothing; that isn't true. In some instances you have mentioned, you are clearly being oversensitive and in others, he is crossing the line, but both of you need to where the line is, what is okay and isn't and I think that's where you both are struggling.

 

I do see how I've contributed to this dynamic. I see areas where I really need work. But it's also starting to occur to me that perhaps this man fundamentally does not respect the women with whom he is in a relationship...and that's not something that we can work out together. It doesn't seem he recognizes how much of a problem this is. I do see abusive tendencies in a lot of his behaviors, though he'd never acknowledge them as such. I cannot imagine that he has treated all the other women he's dated better than me, and it's just with me that he's been such a brute so much of the time. I see how I have enabled and condoned his behavior by staying on and not drawing a FIRM LINE, from the get-go.

[Zapbasket]

Pink, thanks so much for weighing in and for reading my other topic. I'd love to hear more about the previous relationship you mention that prompted a strong recognition of the dynamics I've elaborated in this and the other thread. What happened, how or whether you got out, when you realized the dynamic wasn't fixable, etc.

 

You see, I would think that in a relationship, you care for each other and therefore you do not hurt each other on purpose. I once had a colleague who also made these "teasing" remarks which were hurtful (she knew damn well where my sensitivities were). When I told her I did not like a specific remark, she told me I had too long toes. My answer was: "Well, that is possible but why do you feel the need to step on them?"

 

That's exactly it. I feel like despite my sensitivity that can sometimes go too far, I really do recognize harmless teasing. I actually like a little ribbing now and then, dishing it and taking it. But the ribbing that feels safe to me always ends when my sensitivity starts to show; as soon as I start to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed, the ribber stops. N. doesn't stop; he either keeps going or gets annoyed with me. And THAT'S the source of much of my unease in this relationship. The majority of it, actually.

 

I've always distrusted the people who go around teasing and then, if the recipient doesn't instantly find it funny and endearing, gets bent out of shape, e.g., "Jeez, it was only a joke, what's wrong with you?" kind-of thing. I feel like the motives of such people, even if they're not aware of it, are somewhat hostile. I've always tended to keep a distance from people like that.

 

This behaviour is going to get worse, remember, you are only together for a year, it will be worse in the future.

 

This comment of yours in particular makes me curious what happened in your previous relationship that you mention. Why will it get worse? Why should I give up hope that it somehow will begin to get better, that eventually he WILL understand how some of his behaviors can be damaging and hurtful, because as he claims he does care and is trying and if I can look at some of my behaviors as well we can arrive at a better place...together?

 

Read the books by Patricia Evans and Lundy Bancroft.

[Zapbasket]

Another incident occurred on Wednesday night. We haven't spoken since--a deviation from the norm, since we touch base with one another every day in some form or other. I'm feeling like I might truly be done. This is very new territory for me. I feel hopeless and I feel like despite how much he claims to love me, he has absolutely no genuine respect for me whatsoever and the only thing to do at this point is step away. I'm curious to see what will happen over the next several days.

[sunshinegirl]

I've always tended to keep a distance from people like that.

 

If the above is true, GC, then it is particularly curious that you have allowed someone like this to be an intimate part of your life for a year, and that you are turning yourself around in circles wondering if you should give it more time.

 

I didn't know about your step-father...I would surmise that that relationship has had a profound impact on the type of men you choose. The classic "choose what you know" and/or "choose the same dysfunction over and over in an effort to fix it and win approval/love." I did that for quite some time, and it's only when I made serious effort in therapy to "fix my man-picker" that I met my now-husband.

[heartshaped]

Have you considered getting counseling GreenCove to help you establish boundaries and work out what is okay behavior and isn't?

 

I don't know if I'd go as far to say that this man doesn't respect you. No examples you have given demand so harsh or crude a judgment of him, but I do think that he feels your responses to some of the things he does are invalid and that's why he does nothing to change his behavior. He doesn't seem to realize that even if you are being sensitive or irrational those are still your feelings which still makes them valid. He feels that you need to toughen up, which may or may not be true, and therefore, doesn't want to feed into what he feels is invalid behavior.

 

Have you ever just laid it on the line GreenCove that you feel unsafe when he does x,y, and z and the only way you feel the relationship will work is if he stops doing x, y, and z?

 

Regardless of whether or not this relationship works out, I think you need to seek some counseling just to be able to figure out how to set boundaries and maintain them. If you do decide to stay in this relationship, the two of you could benefit from some couples counseling where you could be in a neutral setting and someone who isn't partial can help the two of you to work through your issues.