Is there hope?

[dreamingoftigers]

I actually still think that that was the deal but she is now too triggered by everything that has happened to think remotely rationally and would rather just avoid the whole situation. Avoidance seems to be really common (and so is projecting blame) among walk-aways

[Craig2425]

Maybe you're right dot but I can't take that hurt anymore.

She wants me to leave her alone then fine she can have it. Like I said I screwed up buy nobody deserves to told the stuff she's said to me.

[trippi1432]

The dynamic of your situation Craig isn't like all of the other stories on here...more so, you left first but realized so much about what was wrong with the marriage and wanted your marriage back...I think that was where the women on LS were pulling for you.

 

Unlike most men who leave a marriage, they validate and try to justify it...you, on the other hand, turned yourself around very quickly. From my understanding, you didn't give her the ILYBNILWY speech...you had some valid reasons from your point of view...but also realized that that it takes two. She, basically, hasn't realized the things you did...and she may not for a very long time unfortunately.

 

You did the best you could under the circumstances....cut yourself some slack and just let things be for now. One day, she might see things differently...but it's clearly not something you can count on right now. Best thing to begin to do is work on healing for yourself and be there for your daughter. Today, my exH and I are still very LC....but he has not been verbally abusive in a couple of months now. Today, we actually had a very good co-parenting conversation....time will eventually heal the wounds.

[Craig2425]

Yes you're right I left cause I wasn't getting sex and diet want to cheat on her. I never gave her the ilybnilwy speach.

I never went out and got sex but after a few months I started reading up on men and womens needs and started to understand why mine weren't being met. I really have tried hard,read online,books offered to go to mc but none of that matters anymore. She met a guy that met her needs right away and now she thinks she never loved me or we never had any fun ever.

I did try and still would but I really can't take the hurt anymore.

I think she gets a kick out of it cause I left and now she gets payback. Only difference is I never wanted or tried to hurt her and she is to me.

[trippi1432]

Yes you're right I left cause I wasn't getting sex and diet want to cheat on her. I never gave her the ilybnilwy speach.

I never went out and got sex but after a few months I started reading up on men and womens needs and started to understand why mine weren't being met. I really have tried hard,read online,books offered to go to mc but none of that matters anymore. She met a guy that met her needs right away and now she thinks she never loved me or we never had any fun ever.

I did try and still would but I really can't take the hurt anymore.

I think she gets a kick out of it cause I left and now she gets payback. Only difference is I never wanted or tried to hurt her and she is to me.

 

Craig - Let's do a little straight talk okay? The best way to say this....perspective....not just yours. She says awful things because she is hurt and can't feel that she can trust you. She walked away from the reconciliation...she went out and found someone to meet her needs as soon as possible...of course that is going to make her wonder if she ever loved you. As a woman who spent many years trying to get her needs met in true intimacy and they weren't, I can tell you when someone comes along and meets them, the entire dynamic shifts. You can't go back to what was anymore....it's not the same.

 

Now, on your side, you left because your needs were not being met either...but you state that you educated yourself instead of acting on getting those needs met by someone else. You got a few ego-boosts here and there....but you didn't act on it. You wanted your family back and have made every effort to do so...yet she is mean and hateful...says hurtful things.

 

Do you see the guilt and blame dynamic going on here? This will not be healthy for your daughter in the future...Dad - I tried but your mom didn't want me back...didn't want to work on it. Mom - I stayed in the marriage but he walked out on us.

 

Two wrongs will never make a right. You need to let go of the anger and blame....even more the self-blame. I know this doesn't come across as very compassionate...straight talk never does...but meant with the best of intentions so you can get to healing without harboring.

[Craig2425]

So what you're saying is because I stopped meeting her needs and she found someone who does she will never be able to come back and try no matter what I've done?

I'm not mad. I like when people can give advice.

I'm not grasping here and I am working on myself.

Just trying to make sure I understand what you said that's all.

I've gotten past the blame thing on my end from her not meeting my needs. Just recently when I started to read up on her needs did I realize what I was doing to her and stopped putting all the blame on her.

I'm upset from what she has done to me in the past few weeks and said to me.

Thanks

[trippi1432]

I'm upset from what she has done to me in the past few weeks and said to me.

Thanks

 

This is what I am saying....fresh raw hurt. Do you see the push/pull? She said things that hurt...but you have both hurt each other...I know you are intuitive Craig...else you would have never realized the things you did. You are caught up in the emotional dramatic response....now educate yourself on the 180 for yourself.

[trippi1432]

So what you're saying is because I stopped meeting her needs and she found someone who does she will never be able to come back and try no matter what I've done?

 

And no, this is NOT what I am saying...it's what you have been trying has not been working...but you know that now.

[Craig2425]

Yes I'm upset by what's she's said recently but I have t told her or said anything to her about that. Yiure saying I should be ok with the hurtful things she's said to me? If I was ok with what she said that would probably mean I didn't love her and not really care what she had to say anyways.

I'm a little confused as to what you're saying trippi.

I'm not pissed yelling at her about it just upset that she can say this stuff to me.

1- if she means it our whole life together has been one big lie.

2- if she doesn't mean it she's just flat out being a bitch and trying to hurt me on purpose.

 

Well I made it thru the day without really wanting to call her. Towards the end of the night I was starting to think abiut her but I started to look at dslr cameras(lost mine when all this stuff went down).

She called to say goodnight

Me- hey what's up?

Her-hi

Me- I kinda cut her off, hold on and I'll get daughter.

They said goodnight then I got back on.

Me- did she say goodnight?

Her-yeah. Sorry I called a little early I'm sick and took nyquil and diet want to pass out.

Me- no problem . Have a good night then hung up.

I didn't even want to really talk to her tonight.

I think I'm just tired of being sh-t on when I talk to her.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes I'm upset by what's she's said recently but I have t told her or said anything to her about that. Yiure saying I should be ok with the hurtful things she's said to me? If I was ok with what she said that would probably mean I didn't love her and not really care what she had to say anyways.

I'm a little confused as to what you're saying trippi.

I'm not pissed yelling at her about it just upset that she can say this stuff to me.

1- if she means it our whole life together has been one big lie.

2- if she doesn't mean it she's just flat out being a bitch and trying to hurt me on purpose.

 

This is one of those forest/trees things.

Sometimes when you are smacked up against one tree you can't see the forest.

 

Craig, this woman does not know which way is up. She flat out is running on emotional speed and that isn't going to get her to a healthy place.

 

Most people in life live their relationship subconsciously. Something rubs them the wrong way and they fight about it etc.

 

She might be saying things to lash out, be a bitch, take revenge, blah blah blah but this isn't part of some bigger strategy she has all mapped out. She is still being wounded animal about it.

 

NO ONE is saying "just take it" but understand that you wounded her, she wounded you and now she is raging, sad, fearful, and feeling backed up in this new relationship (until that inevitably collapses due to a horrible foundation and poor relational skills on her part.)

 

The best thing you can do for yourself is the 180 and keep looking into what builds a positive relationship and a healthy person. Read some Bradshaw, Mars and Venus, 5 Love Languages, Divorce Busting, Divorce Remedy etc. and not just for her and you relationship, but for any future relationship.

 

Cease trying to trace and recover the wounded animal, she will just keep lashing at you and running. Let her go until she heals up and licks her wounds, wherever you are on that journey of healing your own wounds is where you are if/when she returns.

 

The more skills you gain in healing your own wounds and in the relational department will only serve you in the future.

 

The relationship with your wife is only a symtom of your own internal dynamic, as frustrating as that is.

 

I just started NC with my husband today.

[trippi1432]

Nope...I concede ...you are right..she is a total b*tch and you are justified. It sucks she keeps sh-tting on you...I'm sorry.

[Craig2425]

No one needs to be sorry. I'm just saying that what she has said sucks!

I never said anything to her about it at all because I know I've hurt her and she might just be saying stuff she doesn't mean.

Dot. I have started the 180 and I'm not doing it in hopes for our relationship. I just can't hurt anymore. I feel pretty good today.

Trippi.

I've read one of the threads you posted and started the other. In one of them you said some of the somethings my stbxw has said. Like it's gone too far and too long,I disgust her she's not attracted to me etc.

That's kind of an eye opener since you were done from that point too.

Again I'm not mad at anybody.

I am just upset that she can say that stuff to me but I never let her know that.

[Craig2425]

Also trippi I thought you had a lot of posts. On your threads some of those people had like 15,000 and have been members since 2000.

Thanks again . Everyone here helps out so much

Makes getting thru the day that much easier.

[Craig2425]

Dot. I'm not so sure she doesn't know what she's doing anymore.

She says she's sure on everything and seems like shes telling the truth.

It's weird(hope it's not just today) but I really didn't want to contact her at all today. The one time it popped in my head I distracted myself and it was gone real quick. Even when she called I was ok with not speaking with her.

I went for a hike again today which was pretty good. It was nice quite got to think and it wasn't all about us.then picked up my daughter and played at the park. I think the real test will be when I don't have my daughter to keep my busy after work.

As of right now I'm doing what she wants and letting her go.

To be honest I don't think see will be back. Not from the stuff she's said to me. Too little too late.

She even has said that to me. Right after she said she wished we could go back in time because she never wanted this or to date other people. I pushed this on her. But too much has happened and she has too much hate towards me.

I'm starting to accept the fact that she's made up her mind and she's done.

All I can do is make sure I know not to take the next girl for granted and get stuck with the blame game on meeting each others needs.

[dreamingoftigers]

Dot. I'm not so sure she doesn't know what she's doing anymore.

 

I didn't say that she didn't know what she was doing, what I said was that she wasn't being rational.

 

She says she's sure on everything and seems like shes telling the truth.

 

Oh sure she is convicted, but it is also stupid.

 

It's weird(hope it's not just today) but I really didn't want to contact her at all today. The one time it popped in my head I distracted myself and it was gone real quick. Even when she called I was ok with not speaking with her.

I went for a hike again today which was pretty good. It was nice quite got to think and it wasn't all about us.then picked up my daughter and played at the park. I think the real test will be when I don't have my daughter to keep my busy after work.

 

There will be ups and downs, you can also get glimpses of what you haven't been working on in your own life and self by trying to save the marriage so single-mindedly.

 

As of right now I'm doing what she wants and letting her go.

To be honest I don't think see will be back. Not from the stuff she's said to me. Too little too late.

 

Blah, it is all the same, and she may be honest and she may not be back.

 

She even has said that to me. Right after she said she wished we could go back in time because she never wanted this or to date other people. I pushed this on her. But too much has happened and she has too much hate towards me.

I'm starting to accept the fact that she's made up her mind and she's done.

All I can do is make sure I know not to take the next girl for granted and get stuck with the blame game on meeting each others needs.

 

She will, given enough time, see where she went wrong too. That doesn't mean wait.

 

BTW, I can tell that you are doing a genuine 180 because your posting went through the roof, that's exactly what happens when I am working my 180!

[Steadfast]

This is only my opinion and NOT advice Craig, Ok? Understand that.

 

When a relationship progresses to the point where you're talking about 'needs' being met (or not met) it's the beginning of the end. If you stop and think about it, the whole topic reeks of selfishness and control.

 

If I were married and my wife asked me to cook dinner because she was tired, I'd do it. Or take her out.

 

See, the whole business of 'reading minds' is the beginning of the end, IMO. If you need something, ask. I don't need to be told I should be considerate, loving or respectful. That's what loving someone is all about. Isn't it?

 

It isn't just you Craig, everyone second guesses. The answers you seek won't help you as much as you think they will. When love is present, the mystery of a person isn't threatening...it's interesting.

 

Leave her alone. Do as she asks.

[Craig2425]

When I say i didn't meet her needs I don't mean she was having me trying to guess what she wanted.

I mean I stopped treating her like my wife and just like my kids mom. I stopped with the hugs or kisses for no reason or wanting to take her out. Stuff like that which in turn made her not want to have sex with me which made me not want to do those things more. I realize that it's not all my fault as we both could and should have spoken to each other abiut this but I do see where she would not want to meet my needs.

But i have let her go. I can't keep letting her hurt me anymore and I have no more energy. I'm still getting no sleep at night so I need all the energy I can get for me

[trippi1432]

No one needs to be sorry. I'm just saying that what she has said sucks!

I never said anything to her about it at all because I know I've hurt her and she might just be saying stuff she doesn't mean.

Dot. I have started the 180 and I'm not doing it in hopes for our relationship. I just can't hurt anymore. I feel pretty good today.

Trippi.

I've read one of the threads you posted and started the other. In one of them you said some of the somethings my stbxw has said. Like it's gone too far and too long,I disgust her she's not attracted to me etc.

That's kind of an eye opener since you were done from that point too.

Again I'm not mad at anybody.

I am just upset that she can say that stuff to me but I never let her know that.

 

Yes, in my situation I probably did say a lot of the things your stbx said...my exH left me...(your ex's point of view) but he also took right up with another woman, similar to your situation on what she did to you (your point of view). Like you, when he got with the OW, I wanted him back but didn't want him back. It's a catch 22 situation...eventually you just get to closure on wanting them at all because you know that nothing will change the dynamic.

 

I guess the gist is that every contact with her is not a rejection....best to not even talk about the marriage or relationship at all if her opinion is that it won't work. You do that for yourself....to start your healing.

[trippi1432]

Craig - I will tell you something else my exH said to me....a year ago this month actually. He called to talk, without yelling for once, and told me that he realized that he didn't treat me well during our relationship....he said he realized it because he could treat his GF well, but didn't know why. He knew that he overstepped a huge boundary by being with this woman and he knew that he couldn't take it back. Yes, I know that sounds like an underhanded jab...but you have to understand his logic to know that he was actually trying to be sincere....in his mind, he was actually trying to work out something in his head.

 

A few months later, picking up our son...I had been out with some friends (actually had a hangover)...he texted me later and asked if I had been crying. Started texting me stuff like not to let them work me too hard at work...that place will kill you...sincere and caring stuff. I'm sure that every time he showed me this sincerity and I rejected it, he got angry and blamed me....but he never showed me real changes, he was still with the OW and made no efforts to leave her. Last contact in February was talking about taxes and it got ugly so he decided to smite me with the failure of our marriage. Yesterday, back to sincerity.

 

So, deep down, does he love me....yes, I believe he does...I know he does and did for fifteen years. When it ultimately breaks down...there is no logic to it anymore. Would I want him back? It would take a massive effort on his part as well as mine to get over that hurdle....if I even had the inkling, it would be because I am too afraid to look at what is out there and get hurt again.

 

These contact sessions....they feel like rejection and hurt because what we want on our end is not what they are going to give us on their end. Best to approach them without any expectations and it will get easier.

[debtman]

Trippi & Craig,

 

Like so many people on here say, don't believe anything you hear. When someone leaves a relationship or is left they need to convince themselves that they're better off and it doesn't matter how it makes the other person feel.

 

My stbx said some horrible things to me after she took up with OM and basically dismissed our entire relationship and re-wrote our history. She continually flips back and forth between telling me she would do ANYTHING she can to help and constantly offers to do whatever she can but I won't ask for anything because I know she'll only use it against me or to justify her decision down the road.

 

She has tried to provoke me on several occasions, but I know she's only doing that to try to convince herself that she made the right choice and that I'm just unreasonable, so I just dismiss it and tell her I'm not going to argue with her. It's a fine line to walk when I have to see/talk to her everyday because of the kids, but I try to avoid conversations about anything besides the kids. Of course, recently we had to talk about taxes, finances, etc. and that's always been a sore spot with us so I just told her everything was fine and moved on. My problems are no longer hers and vice-versa except where the kids are concerned.

 

The best thing you can do is stick to the 180. It's changed my perspective, my emotional state, rebuilt my confidence, gotten me active and fit again and helped my overall well being. And other people notice it as well. I've got 3 different women who I've known for a year or more who are suddenly interested in doing more things and spending more time with me. I'm enjoying the attention, but am being VERY careful to not step into another relationship, as easy as that would be.

 

The failure of a relationship does not lie entirely on one person...and it can't be fixed by one person.

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[debtman]

Craig - I will tell you something else my exH said to me....a year ago this month actually. He called to talk, without yelling for once, and told me that he realized that he didn't treat me well during our relationship....he said he realized it because he could treat his GF well, but didn't know why. He knew that he overstepped a huge boundary by being with this woman and he knew that he couldn't take it back. Yes, I know that sounds like an underhanded jab...but you have to understand his logic to know that he was actually trying to be sincere....in his mind, he was actually trying to work out something in his head.

 

My stbx did something very similar to me. She called a few months ago to apologize for the way she acted 3 years ago and told me that she was way out of line and sorry she treated me that way. Not sure what she was trying to work through, but, at first it made me angry because she wasn't apologizing for how cruelly she had JUST treated me a few months before by dating OM when I was still living with her and basically switching him for me in her life and in our kids lives. I think she just hasn't been able to "see" how unfair that was since she's still in the relationship fog and is too close to the situation. Maybe in 3 years I'll get that call from her apologizing for that...not that it matters.

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[Craig2425]

I have a question about the 180.

It says to not contact them but if they contact me i should talk? Doesn't that defeat nc?

[marqueemoon4]

I have a question about the 180.

It says to not contact them but if they contact me i should talk? Doesn't that defeat nc?

 

you can't go completely NC because of your daughter. keep any communications strictly on her, and if the convo strays, shut it down.

[Craig2425]

Yeah I know I can't go complete nc but the list of 180s I read(I think from divorce remedy) said if they contact you to go ahead and talk but keep light and short. Then it said if they bring up the relationship to go ahead and talk abiut that.

Just confused that's all.

Maybe it was someone else list I read.?

Thanks

[marqueemoon4]

Yeah I know I can't go complete nc but the list of 180s I read(I think from divorce remedy) said if they contact you to go ahead and talk but keep light and short. Then it said if they bring up the relationship to go ahead and talk abiut that.

Just confused that's all.

Maybe it was someone else list I read.?

Thanks

 

I mean, if she wants to talk about you and her constructively and you're ok with that, then its your decision.