Is there hope?

[dreamingoftigers]

I mean you can't get yanked around forever, but you can let it all cone to a natural conclusion and be better off either way.

 

180 is the way to either back out of the m or to get back in it. Either way, by the time it is decided you have become a stronger, happier person.

 

You know from her and you separating before that you will survive and that it isn't as bad as you have envisioned. BUT now you just have to accept that it is a possibility and make sure that your heart doesn't go down with the ship if she hits an emotional iceberg.

 

The marriages that do survive have to be made of individuals that CAN stand on their own but want to be together. Emotionally neither you nor your wife are at that point yet. (me neither but I am a Helluva lot closer. My h is sllllllooooowwwwlllllyyyy coming to some small realizations, it takes time for the slower person.)

 

Don't think I am knocking you here at all but it is going to take LOTS of time. But that is actually a good thing because it also means that time is on your side. Let the marriage agenda go for now and focus on the gratitude aspect:

 

1. Your wife hasn't moved out yet and you can still enjoy her company when she reaches out for it.

2. You can be happy spending time with your daughter

3. You can be happy spending time with your friends.

4. You can be happy spending time doing things that you enjoy.

 

Let your life and marriage organically grow from that, and it will.

 

Seriously reread Divorce Remedy. I have also recently read The Success Principles and Taming Your Outer Child.

 

Don't let your heart remain empty because she can't fill it right now. She may not be able to give you anything for awhile.

 

There is hope but results will not come in your time. They'll cone when she has processed it and stops testing you so harshly.

[dreamingoftigers]

I had to learn the inviting thing the hard way, don't invite her to use your washroom if the only other option is her peeing in a bucket by the couch!

 

She'll just be like: "there's too much pressure, you just sound controlling, I'm happy with my bucket." on and on.

 

They're like a little kid that insists on pouring their own juice. You know they are going to get it everywhere and you are trying to help them etc. But they just get mad and throw a temper tantrum if you try to pour it for them. Let them spill the damn juice eveywhere. Let them clean it up too. She's older then 12 now so that's what she's gotta do.

 

Btw, my 2 year old did the water temper tantrum, I let get pour her juice. I gave her the cloth to clean up her spill. She did it and she was do proud. She now gets the cloth whenever she spills something; plus she can now pour her own water at two without spilling. Most people function much better when they are given a little space to figure stuff out.

[Craig2425]

That makes a lot of sense. That's was her answer a couple days ago.

I need to figure this out

I'm a big girl I can look by myself

Even tho she asked for my opinion.

I dunno if she thought I wouldn't try and help her or what. She did a few times.

What's your ideas on how to get past this .

I looked online and found this,this,this.

I'm not doing that! I can find it on my own.

[dreamingoftigers]

Do nothing for her that she can do herself and only some of what she asks you to. Don't ask her to do anything for you.

[Craig2425]

So she's told me he plan.

She can't work on herself while I'm here. Even tho I haven't bugged her she still feels pressure because she doesn't want or like hurting me and she knows I want us to work.

She's selling a few things and to pay me back some money that I brought in and she said I can stay here for a week or two till I get my stuff in order.

 

She said she really needs to work on herself she has a lot of problems and can't feel for me like a wife should. She doesn't want to have sex and she hates it.

I didn't really say too much and just kinda agreed and said ok but I'm hurting on the inside.

[Craig2425]

She so sure about her decision and knows this is right. She wants out.

She doesn't know even if she did get past her issues if she could ever love me like she should.

This sucks!

I just kinda listen to her and said if you're sure you're sure and ok but deep down inside I'm really hurting

 

How can she be so sure when she hasn't gotten help or tried to deal with her feelings? How is this her only answer?

Edited August 15, 2011 by Craig2425

[Craig2425]

I'm seriously bumming out. I just got on my bike and rode to an empty street and I'm just sitting here now.

I'm also pretty upset that she went last night. That is pretty selfish of her.

Yes I said it's ok but really what does she think I said it was ok for?

Edited August 15, 2011 by Craig2425

[Craig2425]

She came to me with her plan of exit(and it's a quick one).

Kept throwing out little digs the whole time. I had enough. I couldn't let her walk on me anymore.

I told her that what she did last night was selfish.there was no reason for her to come if she knows she won't try for us and to do it on my birthday is just horrible.

I told her I agree with what she says . Of she has no problem hurting me then why would I want to be with someone like that.

I probably shouldn't have said anything to her but I'm hurt and I've done nothing but work my ass off for her and my family. I don't deserve to be treated like that.

It's a lose lose for me. I stay quite and she keeps not trying and throwing little digs at me or i try and talk and she just throws out see this is why I can't be with you.

How about when you learn to have a conversation and be a grown up.

Everything is not my fault. You're not perfect. I think a big reason why she can't get past stuff is she doesn't to take responsibility for her part . It's easier to just blame me for everything and any time stuff starts to make sense in that regards just say this is why I can't be with you.

 

As you can tell I'm not happy but I've been treated like a doormat for 4-5 months taking all the blame and I'm the only one trying.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Craig2425

[dreamingoftigers]

I get that, totally. Really do. The thing is she is digging for a reaction to justify everything. She is seeking an emotional response and a criticism.

 

Most people (like 99%) will realize that they are being dicks after a week or two getting no reaction back. Then they just feel bad and realize they aren't helping anyone (especially with a kid involved).

 

I know it is so hard to stay calm when someone is saying "maybe I'll destroy your life this week, maybe if I get mad."

 

Truth be told though, she isn't going to face any of her responsibility in survival mode and she feels trapped in the marriage.

 

It actually isn't your job to critique your spouse. A lot of people feel that it is but truth be told it is not part if our job description in any way to pick apart their faults and display them for them. I sure that picking apart your faults and displaying them for you has not been terribly edifying. In a partner situation it just sounds condescending and parental.

 

"you're selfish" practically signs a death warrant. To her she acted like people should act given the situation. She probably was half-uncomfortable but that is actually a good thing.

 

You aren't going to change her behavior by giving her a PowerPoint presentation on it. Her digs got to your ego and you reacted. That's been the pattern in your marriage for a millenia.

 

She isn't going to change things without being convinced that she has to change. And she isn't.

 

In the case of my husband, I talked to Divorce Busters about the situation and they said "if his addiction was alcohol, you wouldn't give him the kids to the car. (this was before I knew he was back to drinking). So you don't give him the keys to the relationship while he judgment is impaired."

 

Truth be told I have been annoyed with him that last few days and I broke down and cried yesterday but I keep my mouth shut because I know in my heart that I don't need my feelings validated by him. I know that he likely won't validate them anyways. Because to him they are not valid yet. He can only see how he feels (and not even very often at that because he is trying to avoid that). So I validate my own feelings, I don't invite the shark into the cage. I don't tease the shark. I watch what the shark does when I leave it alone.

 

You know what the shark does? He rattles the cage until he makes sure that I am not a threat, then he goes about his business for awhile. Then he actually starts to surprise me. He draws closer trying to figure me out. What is this new thing in my environment? Hmm...

 

I have shared with him two feelings over the last week and neither were related to him. Truly, I don't wish to share with him my hurt or disappointment or anger anymore. It doesn't make sense to do so because he gets defensive, leaves or gets really upset himself. Which causes even more hurt and resent. DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!

 

Truth be told, while she is like this she isn't going to be able to have any empathy for you because she is busy pitying herself. She has to discover that self-pity isn't going to get her anywhere and that she might only be throwing an emotionally healthy spouse out. Part of the equation for her discovering that is you becoming more balanced and emotionally independent. You guys can't carry each other that way anymore. Especially now. If you vent any anger at her or become depressed and withdrawn the only

Emotion that will illicit from her is guilt. And no one wants to feel guilty all the time. It won't even be "useful" guilt like "I feel guilty that I am doing this." it will be "he's always making me feel so guilty, well he's been in ******* in xyz ways and I am so sick of hearing about it. Why can't he just be happy for two minutes? Why do I always have to make him happy when he doesn't make me happy?"

 

Seriously, the only way she's gonna feel that, "oh **** I am messing things up here" is when she has seen that YOU aren't guilting her, she just feels remorse for leaving. LATER she can see the screwed up patterns she is creating.

 

You are expecting a four year old to write a university paper.

 

When I met my H, he had a sixth grade education (well actually he did sixth grade 3 times.) my husband is actually not a stupid guy. The first things that ever struck me about him were how socially apt he was and how he listened and could make me laugh.

 

His tragic flaw was a childhood more screwed up then most (abandoned by 4 mothers and 5 fathers, and not even in pairs). Abuse of all kinds, in the foster system twice, became his own guardian at 15. Hit the streets shortly after that. Tried to go back to school, ended up working for the Government on one of their job creation projects (he was always able to make good connections). Then the drink got him again.

 

That's a lot to adapt to and overcome. I had to do his history before he went to treatment and contacting these people was like opening hailing frequencies to distant planets. Mother 3 blames Father 1 for the whole thing. Father 1 denies everyone else's take on the events that everyone else witnessed. Mother 1 is dead so good luck finding out the truth on that one. Father 2 pretended to be legally married to Mother 3 while having a completely different family in the states. Father 4 and Mother 3 are now married etc. The therapist at the clinic said " these things are usually in point form." I had to make a timeline. LOL

 

Anyways, my point is that that would mess anyone up pretty badly (and has). I can't expect at this point for him to act completely normally and functionally. BUT when I treat him like he DOES act normally and functionally AND that his decisions are his own responsibility AND I respect them. I end up with functional behaviour from him. Maybe not the same day, but it comes. When people stop feeling like you will clean up their mess OR mess up their space, they tend to either find someone that will or start to keep their own place organized. It will probably take a little time for her to grow up.

 

I can't expect my husband to be the Marriage Superhero, or even the average spouse at this point anymore then I can't expect my daughter who goes around saying "drink a bahboo" to start writing her name. She hasn't developed to that point yet.

 

I hope that I haven't blah blah blahed too much.

 

So Craig,

 

How is your wife going to test you? What buttons is she going to push?

[Craig2425]

I knew when I was writing it I shouldn't and when I was just about to send it i shouldn't but I couldn't take it anymore. I'm the one who's admitted that what I did was wrong. I'm the one trying to make things better and I don't need you who's not trying to tell me that everything is my fault .

 

The thing that hurts is how fast she's pushing for me go get out and how sure she is.

I can't be out of her life fast enough.

 

I wish I would have spoken to you first so I could have calmed down. Everything you've said makes a lot of sense and what good is gonna come from me getting upset? Nothing. It's not gonna change her mind and it's only gonna put stress on me.

 

How long should I stay here? I don't want to pack up and leave right away. But i don't want to piss her off anymore.

 

As for test ? I have no idea. Probably more of the same. Tell me she can't be with me.'

She's sure.

[dreamingoftigers]

Two things:

 

1. A phrase that I learned from an infidelity support group that I learned: Don't take the bait!

 

2. What is your living situation like right now? Are you living in rentals? The family home? What?

 

Don't worry about pissing her off at this point. In fact don't avoid pissing her off. Just don't guilt her/overload her. Her being pissed off means she isn't overloaded yet. Don't worry about her trying to sink her teeth into you, worry about you not poking the cage.

[Craig2425]

Two things:

 

1. A phrase that I learned from an infidelity support group that I learned: Don't take the bait!

 

2. What is your living situation like right now? Are you living in rentals? The family home? What?

 

Don't worry about pissing her off at this point. In fact don't avoid pissing her off. Just don't guilt her/overload her. Her being pissed off means she isn't overloaded yet. Don't worry about her trying to sink her teeth into you, worry about you not poking the cage.

 

Were in a rental.

What do you mean don't avoid pissing her off

And overloading her?

[Craig2425]

Dot, I sent you a msg that has more detail.

Let me know what you think

[dreamingoftigers]

Craig, I am pretty burnt tonight and not able to focus as nicely as I had wanted (Dexedrine worn off). Will write a response tomorrow.

[Craig2425]

Sounds good

[robf1971]

. How long should I stay here? I don't want to pack up and leave right away. But i don't want to piss her off anymore.

 

Ok, I've not gone back through this whole thread but why on earth should you be packing up and moving away. Also why should you care if you piss her off or not. Almost sounds like your afraid of her...

[dreamingoftigers]

He thinks if he pisses her off that he will lose her for sure.

 

Opposite is more likely true.

 

I don't think he should be the one moving either. If she wants things to be over than she needs to make the effort to pack up and go. She's making him do her dirty work so she can tell herself

 

A) he didn't fight hard enough for me or

B) he didn't respect that I need space

 

She's gotta do it herself.

[robf1971]

He thinks if he pisses her off that he will lose her for sure.

 

Opposite is more likely true.

 

I don't think he should be the one moving either. If she wants things to be over than she needs to make the effort to pack up and go. She's making him do her dirty work so she can tell herself

 

A) he didn't fight hard enough for me or

B) he didn't respect that I need space

 

She's gotta do it herself.

 

It's all a test IMO, women subconciously fitness test men all the time. Craig (no disrespect meant) wimping out, being scared of his wife, being the one to leave, his wife is thinking (subconciously) how can he stand up for me if he can't stand up for himself.

 

He needs to be able to do this without crying or being a jerk eg

 

"wife I've changed my mind I won't be leaving the house, if you want out your welcome to go, I'll even help you move"

 

Then when she freaks out at him (inevietable) not to lose his temper, say

 

"Wife until you can speak to me in a friendly and civil tone this conversation is over " and walk away.

 

I'm not just speaking cr*p i've reconciled my own marriage and done exactly this lol... ohh and she didn't leave either. I still get tested, I don't take her BS anymore.

[robf1971]

He thinks if he pisses her off that he will lose her for sure.

 

Opposite is more likely true..

 

I'd say DEFINITELY true,

[robf1971]

Tell me she can't be with me.'

She's sure.

 

My wife told me in front of the marriage counsellor that she "no longer wanted to be married to me", she told everyone we know that we were separating and that there was no chance of us getting back together. It was a year ago almost to the day!!

 

They are always so sure, thing is now she's sure she wants to be with me, so there is hope.

[Craig2425]

Rob I sent you a msg

[dreamingoftigers]

When you do a 180 and become an emotionally independent person, you don't let them control your life and they don't feel responsible for you.

[Craig2425]

Blah......

[dreamingoftigers]

That, right there, when you wrote Blah is the emotional overload I was referring to.

 

Since she has abandonment issues, her emotional overload is pretty quick, any additional pressure will just feel like stress, noise and guilt.

 

You can only be stressed out for so long.

 

Give yourself a break Craig. Your marriage wasn't totalled in a day and won't be saved in one either.

[dreamingoftigers]

Emotional overload is when you swim put of the cage and just say (through bubbles floating to the surface) "Shark, you win, it's buffet time."