Is there hope?

[marqueemoon4]

If this is the case then why is she in such a rush to be with someone else?

If it was she just doesn't want to be tied down to me she could still get a divorce .

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying. I've been having trouble concentrating and unable to do the simplest of tasks.

 

as other people are telling me on my thread.. I will probably never understand why my ex did what she did and is doing now..... you may not either. you want concrete ANSWERS for why your wife is behaving the way she is. maybe even she doesn't know?

 

i remember when I was pleading for a second chance from my exW.. she said if it ever did happen it would be YEARS, and that she was not waiting around in the meantime. I, for the life of me don't understand what the hell she meant by that. Is she assuming that in YEARS I will welcome her back with open arms after everything she has done to me? my God, I hope not.

 

i guess you're going to have to accept that there are no answers.. just the reality that your wife is with someone else. hopefully in time it will turn out to be a good thing that you two aren't together anymore? the future is wide open. i don't know man, the whole focus on your kids thing is true.. its no consolation whatsoever, but its all you can do. keep in mind, people are ****ed up in general. don't set any more expectations of her and you can't be disappointed anymore.

Edited August 21, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[Craig2425]

Trust me. I wish I could just be ok and over it.

I hate feeling like this and i hate that I have no say over the fact that the marriage is over and I can't see my daughter everyday.

I see what everyone is saying. It's just a lot easier to say do this or that then to actually do it.

[dreamingoftigers]

No kidding.

 

I wanted to avoid info overload too.

 

Plus remember gentlemen that Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

You will not be through your grief for some time. I find the two year mark for yours truly to be the processing point.

 

I try to improve my life by 1% per week.

 

Sounds low right?

Not really. I know that when I started in the height of grief that 1% was about all I could handle and it is actually a decent pace.

 

Enough to hold to when you are busy, and not too overwhelming especially considering all of the other changes around you can be and some will be.

 

Change is tough and your brain can only handle so much without becoming overloaded.

 

Reading helps tons and tons too. Even if you can only do a few pages a day.

 

Taking care of #1 has to be the base of everything.

 

Without checking into your health and working out close to everyday, you just get too damned overwhelmed with the anxiety, shame and grief.

 

Sometimes the most comforting thoughts are. "1.2.3.4.5.6....hill....push....push.... interval done......." that actually sounds kinda dirty.

[marqueemoon4]

It's without question the hardest thing I've ever been through.. and not much phases me.

[dreamingoftigers]

Truly though the greatest life pains that are not expected come from our intimate relationships.

 

Divorce is actually one of the hardest things for the brain to process.

 

That's from surveys on stress dating back to the 80s and the Amen Brain Clinics following it up by spectral scan more recently.

 

Death of a relative is actually easier for the brain to comprehend. If we had a mostly positive relationship with the relative, it is actually easier to grieve then if we had a strained relationship.

 

Ugh. And so many people act like marriage and divorce is something that you do every second Tuesday.

 

"just divorce them already, if they don't know how to make you happy by now, they never will."

 

Ugh.

[Steen719]

It's without question the hardest thing I've ever been through.. and not much phases me.

 

I hear ya!

[Craig2425]

Why is it that us men can't take our wives hints about stuff being wrong until it's too late? Then when we try they could care less and they don't want us trying.

Why is it that they can't see what we want?

Most of the stories on here(guys anyway) seems like we stopped meeting our wifes needs then they stopped with ours. After that it's just one big game back and forth till it's too late then there's nothing you can do to fix it.

 

Here I am after I put my daughter to sleep by myself sitting on my phone writing on a forum to people who basically have all done the same thing.

We all wanted the same thing but let little stuff build up until it became too much.

 

I think too many people think love and marriage is what the movies make it out to be.

"perfect" and if it's not then you're not in love or it's a bad marriage.

What a bunch of ****! Everybody gets into arguments but that doesn't mean that you're not in love.

Nothing in life is perfect and everything that's worth something takes time and work otherwise it wouldn't mean **** to anybody.

 

I hate that my daughter is crying and asking why her mom isn't with us tonight to help put her to sleep.

Ugh........

[dreamingoftigers]

Why guys ignore:

 

The short answer: you hear her criticism and you hear that you have failed her in some way as a man and husband. Cortisol releases. You don't like to gear her complain. Men are very sensitive to shame.

 

Women: do what they know, the talk about it. And talk. And talk. It becomes nagging, more cortisol for you. It becomes a trap, you get angry.

 

She gets a little fearful of you, starts to doubt you care for her. Nags harder. You shame her back.

 

She gives up and withdraws, doubts you will ever change. Packs up gone. She's "done all she can."

 

Women move on quicker after a split in general. When we lived in the jungle, if we weren't certain a mate would return we had to become stronger quickly or find a new man to protect us and our young.

 

Women will wait out a relationship unhappily for a very long time. Once she stops nagging, men assume she is happier. She's isn't she has given up and is gathering her resources. The effort to gather her courage and risk life alone in the jungle means you are not an acceptable survival risk.

 

Men, after they have gone take longer to feel alone and get over the shame. By the time he gets back, he has proven that he won't protect her. Taking a chance on a proven survival risk goes against our programming.

[jaymz]

Wow DOT.

 

I find this post very upsetting. It kinda reinforces everything my stbxw says about me. Before I thought it was a 50/50 split in thje breakdown in terms of commuinication problems, focusding on wrong areas, working too much and bad habits

[Steen719]

Why guys ignore:

 

The short answer: you hear her criticism and you hear that you have failed her in some way as a man and husband. Cortisol releases. You don't like to gear her complain. Men are very sensitive to shame.

 

Women: do what they know, the talk about it. And talk. And talk. It becomes nagging, more cortisol for you. It becomes a trap, you get angry.

 

She gets a little fearful of you, starts to doubt you care for her. Nags harder. You shame her back.

 

She gives up and withdraws, doubts you will ever change. Packs up gone. She's "done all she can."

 

Women move on quicker after a split in general. When we lived in the jungle, if we weren't certain a mate would return we had to become stronger quickly or find a new man to protect us and our young.

 

Women will wait out a relationship unhappily for a very long time. Once she stops nagging, men assume she is happier. She's isn't she has given up and is gathering her resources. The effort to gather her courage and risk life alone in the jungle means you are not an acceptable survival risk.

 

Men, after they have gone take longer to feel alone and get over the shame. By the time he gets back, he has proven that he won't protect her. Taking a chance on a proven survival risk goes against our programming.

 

I don't know if it takes men longer to feel alone or not, but I do know the part about women waiting out a relationship unhappily for a long time is true for me. I do think once the damage is done and you feel that you have done what you can, the desire to work anything out is gone. I am not looking for another man to help me survive, but I have been trying to gather the courage to be alone in the jungle. And, you are right. I would not believe he would protect me now. In my case, it is too little, too late. Instead of ever seeking that type of protection, I would now only want some companionship and continue to depend on myself. I think enough pain will make you do that.

[Craig2425]

I don't know if it takes men longer to feel alone or not, but I do know the part about women waiting out a relationship unhappily for a long time is true for me. I do think once the damage is done and you feel that you have done what you can, the desire to work anything out is gone. I am not looking for another man to help me survive, but I have been trying to gather the courage to be alone in the jungle. And, you are right. I would not believe he would protect me now. In my case, it is too little, too late. Instead of ever seeking that type of protection, I would now only want some companionship and continue to depend on myself. I think enough pain will make you do that.

This is the sad thing I was talking about.

Women(not saying you did this) nag and nag and nag to try and get their spouse to realize there're not happy and want to work on it instead of talking about it.

By the time you finally talk about your feelings it's too litle too late?

You have to remember that guys don't think the same way as women. We need stuff to just be thrown out there and not sneak around the bush about it.

I'm not saying it's all fault is out on women because it's just not.

It's communication problems on both parts.

I would bet most men if their spouse would have talked to them and told them how they are feeling and stuff isn't working things would be a lot different in a lot of marriages.

 

Men can't read minds. It's exactly like dot said. When you nag we just think it's little thngs and oh god shes nagging again.

Then you stop because you're checking out and we think oh good she's stopped and she's happy again.

Don't you guys see a pattern? Why is that when you guys check out and finally tell us how you feel we realize what's going on and want to work on the relationship?

Because we can't read minds.

It's not like we don't care about the marriage or not love you guys or we don't want to work together to be happy.

Too bad it's too little too late

[Craig2425]

This sucks so bad. I can't even ride bikes with my daughter today.

It's all the little things that bug me so much about this.

[Steen719]

This is the sad thing I was talking about.

Women(not saying you did this) nag and nag and nag to try and get their spouse to realize there're not happy and want to work on it instead of talking about it.

By the time you finally talk about your feelings it's too litle too late?

You have to remember that guys don't think the same way as women. We need stuff to just be thrown out there and not sneak around the bush about it.

I'm not saying it's all fault is out on women because it's just not.

It's communication problems on both parts.

I would bet most men if their spouse would have talked to them and told them how they are feeling and stuff isn't working things would be a lot different in a lot of marriages.

 

Men can't read minds. It's exactly like dot said. When you nag we just think it's little thngs and oh god shes nagging again.

Then you stop because you're checking out and we think oh good she's stopped and she's happy again.

Don't you guys see a pattern? Why is that when you guys check out and finally tell us how you feel we realize what's going on and want to work on the relationship?

Because we can't read minds.

It's not like we don't care about the marriage or not love you guys or we don't want to work together to be happy.

Too bad it's too little too late

 

I know what you are saying, Craig, and maybe it is that way for a lot of people. An example for me is this. I have been trying to work with an H who told me in May that he was no longer in love with me and had been unhappy for 13 years (post his affair). I had taken care of him through a grave illness and a liver transplant. No sex (well, little) for a variety of reasons, including his impotency and some other stuff I won't get into right now. So, he still wants to be married...despite some other things he is doing (online..perhaps EA?). I go to counseling, he goes, he has the insight of a gnat. He does not want to change...he wants me to change how I view him. He makes many plans without me...including 2 concerts; one today and yesterday drops another one where he got a back stage pass for this one coming up. "You don't like this kind of stuff, anyway" Not always true..I do like some of them. I told him that I really was over all of this. It really just was the last straw for me. When I told him that I would be working on the division of property for him to review, he got mad. "What, do you want me to see if I can get you a ticket for the concert tomorrow?" me: "No, thanks" Him: "Do you want me to see if I can get you a ticket for the one on the third?" me: "No, too little, too late".

I guess we all have a breaking point. Mine was this. But, of course, all of the problems have led me here, not just the concerts. Consideration for me for a change would have been nice and now, I don't want it. I just want out. Interesting side bit here: when I showed him the list, which was more than generous to him, he said "this is not fair to me". I said "how can that be true? I am giving you more than you asked for and if you need more of this "stuff", take it. I don't care" His answer, "well, I did not want to be unfair". How screwed up can a person be?

 

I am sorry if I hijacked your thread, but I wanted to tell you that sometimes it is just the last straw on top of all of them.

 

PS I may have nagged...I sure argued. I tried to get him to see my point and it did not work at all. You cannot make someone understand you if they do not want to.

 

 

You will feel better. We all will.

[Craig2425]

I wasn't blaming you or pointing the finger at you at all.

I was speaking in general. I'm also saying it's not just the womans fault. I know that it takes two people to get into tough times like this.

I was just saying that probably most people on this board wouldn't be here if they and their spouse would have had better communication skills

[Steen719]

Oh, I know you weren't. I did not take it that way. I just mean it can be the straw and the camel...and a person just cannot see a way to get past the past. I am to blame, too, for I should have communicated better also. It is just very sad that so many of us are hurting.

[marqueemoon4]

I understand people hit breaking points.. some much sooner than others.. but when there are children are involved I don't understand how you be so sure its over forever. My ex told me a week after she had left that "she would never feel the same way about me again". I couldn't believe she could say that.. I'm a never say never type of person, she led me to believe she was too.

[Craig2425]

I understand people hit breaking points.. some much sooner than others.. but when there are children are involved I don't understand how you be so sure its over forever. My ex told me a week after she had left that "she would never feel the same way about me again". I couldn't believe she could say that.. I'm a never say never type of person, she led me to believe she was too.

 

This is what I don't get. It wasn't that long ago when they wanted to try but instead of talking they nag and don't talk about it.

Why is when the other wants to try they are 100% sure they don't want to or they could love you again?

Seems silly to me that when yiu finally talk and say how you really feel and the husband wants to fix stuff you are done and out

[Steen719]

Hey marquee...I know. I was a never say never type, too. I stayed with this man after his affair 14 years ago because of my son. My son is grown, now, soon to be 21. H is acting like he is having another mid-life crisis and I am now at my breaking point. But, I hear you. I would have thought I would stay no matter what..thick and thin..but I just cannot do it anymore. I deserve for someone to treat me better than this, particularly after I have done so much for him. I am really not a "me" person, so this has been hard to decide to do.

 

I am sorry you are going through this and I am grateful that despite all, my son had his father while he was growing up. So, just be the best dad you can be. When they are older, they will know you did the best you could.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow DOT.

 

I find this post very upsetting. It kinda reinforces everything my stbxw says about me. Before I thought it was a 50/50 split in thje breakdown in terms of commuinication problems, focusding on wrong areas, working too much and bad habits

 

Look folks. We are part of a rare group here. The people in this culture toss marriage and family in the garbage for a nicer home or the chance to get laid by someone new.

 

We refuse to let it go at that. Given that fact, we need to see what our final goal is a create the steps to get there, just like EVERY OTHER FACET OF LIFE.

 

I am willing to bet that 50% of the marriages on this board alone can still be saved. The fact that we are here is a starting point.

 

Now to the lady who says she doesn't trust her H will protect her at this point: you may be right but they have different mechanics then us. They just do.

 

We all know exactly what to say to piss off our spouses, right?

We probably know about 1000 different ways to get them to file for divorce. If we have that much control in our marriages then it must be true at least halfway the opposite way. We must have the power to have them tolerate us at the very least.

 

In the beginning of your relationships there was something different. A different chemistry.

 

What did YOU do differently back then?

What made you "tolerable" even "likable" even "lovable?"

[dreamingoftigers]

I know what you are saying, Craig, and maybe it is that way for a lot of people. An example for me is this. I have been trying to work with an H who told me in May that he was no longer in love with me and had been unhappy for 13 years (post his affair). I had taken care of him through a grave illness and a liver transplant. No sex (well, little) for a variety of reasons, including his impotency and some other stuff I won't get into right now. So, he still wants to be married...despite some other things he is doing (online..perhaps EA?). I go to counseling, he goes, he has the insight of a gnat. He does not want to change...he wants me to change how I view him. He makes many plans without me...including 2 concerts; one today and yesterday drops another one where he got a back stage pass for this one coming up. "You don't like this kind of stuff, anyway" Not always true..I do like some of them. I told him that I really was over all of this. It really just was the last straw for me. When I told him that I would be working on the

division of property for him to review, he got mad. "What, do you want me to see if I can get you a ticket for the concert tomorrow?" me: "No, thanks" Him: "Do you want me to see if I can get you a ticket for the one on the third?" me: "No, too little, too late".

 

I have one of these at home too. The funny thing is they think you are upset about the little problem instead of what the "small" inconsiderations mean. He thinks you want to go to a concert and that you are pissy about s ticket that you would never have gone and gotten yourself anyways. He tries to get you said ticket and has no idea what a slap in the face it is. You tell him more or less to piss off and decides that you will never be happy.

 

The online stuff really short-circuits a lot of the humanity of guys like this. It is universal that the more we are stressed and the more we focus on it, the more narcissistic we tend to become. People use online affairs and porn snd garbage sometimes in an addictive way to deaden the stress feelings, but it makes their emotional fuse even shorter. Seriously, we cannot see past the

pain we are in and allow an outside source to control it.

 

I guess we all have a breaking point. Mine was this. But, of course, all of the problems have led me here, not just the concerts. Consideration for me for a change would have been nice and now, I don't want it. I just want out.

 

Now truly I bet that if he were to wake up tomorrow as the considerate husband that this would happen: a) you would not believe it b) you would think he was trying to manipulate you for something, maybe even his ego. Anyways you would be very suspicious c) you would question his nice moves. Tell him, "yeah, right." d) you would wonder what the hell happened to the bastard e) you would start testing his intentions f) you would test the **** out of him until you were comfortable that he was the genuine article g) you would vent your pain to him and if he didn't resist it and just accepted it and continued to act like a healthy partner that loved you in the way that you wanted, you might even forgive him and reconcile.

 

BUT the energy it would take on his and your behalf would be substantial given the damage. BUT it is possible with slow progress.

 

I am shocked how much of a dick my husband isn't when I take my half out of the equation. It takes a bit though and he tests me. I am secure in myself not to take it personally.[/b

 

Interesting side bit here: when I showed him the list, which was more than generous to him, he said "this is not fair to me". I said "how can that be true? I am giving you more than you asked for and if you need more of this "stuff", take it. I don't care" His answer, "well, I did not want to be unfair". How screwed up can a person be?

 

Ever hear of Jeffrey Dahmer? People can be pretty screwed up.

 

I am sorry if I hijacked your thread, but I wanted to tell you that sometimes it is just the last straw on top of all of them.

 

PS I may have nagged...I sure argued. I tried to get him to see my point and it did not work at all. You cannot make someone understand you if they do not want to.

 

 

You will feel better. We all will.

 

The bolded. Yes that is the recipe it seems for guys to not want to understand. Do not think I am faulting you in any way, we go what comes natural to is and often treat others how we wish to be treated. Just guys physically can't handle nagging and talking about feelings or offences. The online stuff only heightens that sensitivity to criticism. It does quite a number on the brain but examples of that and the processes are all over my own threads on LS, so I won't jack this one.

 

When splits happen and it looks like divorce or just after, that is often when men admit failure on some relational front and are actually willing to change. The funny part is that we are the last people they tend to show that to because of the shame/cortisol connection. Trust me on this one.

 

Men continue to be affected by their divorces and the internal shame it causes years after the fact. They also tend to marry much more quickly. Almost an attempt to make up for it and restore their self-esteems. Women, on average, if they do remarry tend to after 9 years of being single/dating. We Elmore have to be convinced that risking that might be worth it.

[dreamingoftigers]

This is what I don't get. It wasn't that long ago when they wanted to try but instead of talking they nag and don't talk about it.

Why is when the other wants to try they are 100% sure they don't want to or they could love you again?

Seems silly to me that when yiu finally talk and say how you really feel and the husband wants to fix stuff you are done and out

 

If I could share one little pearl of wisdom:

 

Her nagging was saying: I AM FRUSTRATED I AM FRUSTRATED FRUSTRATED FRUSTRATED FRUSTRATED

 

I guess that as women we watch for more of the non-verbal cues during communication. If you come home edgy but say that everything is fine, we know that it isn't.

 

We expect you to see the non-verbal cues just like we can with our girlfriends. As well you expect us to only listen with the literal words: if you say "it's fine" that means that there is nothing we can do about it and that you want to deal with it. Essentially you are saying to your wife: "you and I are fine. The rest I will deal with. Please respect me enough to give menthe space to do that."

 

If we come home edgy and say things are "fine." they aren't. When things are "fine" we talk about how "fine" they are. "fine" means "my work is fine, but I need a little support from you."

 

We need your attention more then it is socially appropriate to admit. It is looked at like a weakness that we like you guys so much. We are supposed to be independent, tough as nails, achieving what our grandmothers and mothers didn't. We aren't supposed to cry like little girls and want to be cuddled.

[dreamingoftigers]

In my experience the women who push away their men the hardest are the ones that need a steady man the most. And the ones that are the most embarrassed and ashamed to ask to be cuddled etc.

[marqueemoon4]

In my experience the women who push away their men the hardest are the ones that need a steady man the most. And the ones that are the most embarrassed and ashamed to ask to be cuddled etc.

 

exactly. I got pushed away like I had SARS and she put her hooks into 2 different "men" in under 6 months. pathetic.

[Steen719]

Thanks..now I am feeling a little guilty here for jumping in and jacking, so I'll just say he nagged more than I did, Keylogger shows he is ready to date, I always stay too long at the fair and when I finally get to this point, I am really done and if he came back tomorrow and begged on knees and said he had an epiphany, I would not take him back. I am really done.

 

But, until recently, I can see why that could have been and I know what you are telling Craig is different from my situation and what might work for him is certainly worth a try.

 

Anyway, thanks for your response and I will now try to NOT jack this thread anymore.

[robf1971]

In the beginning of your relationships there was something different. A different chemistry.

 

What did YOU do differently back then?

What made you "tolerable" even "likable" even "lovable?"

 

This is KEY in my opinion