Is there hope?

[Craig2425]

Cool. I think I'll just stick to our kid for now

[debtman]

Yeah, it's tricky with kids, pick-up/drop-off, etc. I try to avoid relationship talk, etc. but I also try to not be rude or confrontational. It's not worth my effort.

 

She often likes to tell me about what's happening with OM and his stbx because she says that I should know what's going on in case his stbx tries to contact me or so that I can keep an eye on the kids to make sure they're doing alright...total bs but I don't stop her, I let her talk and then just give a "Thanks, well, we gotta get going."

 

Since the kids are off this week for spring break, I was going to take them overnight tonight but she called up sounding depressed and left a message (I rarely answer her calls and just let them go to voicemail and then return them later) saying that she would really appreciate it if she could have the kids tonight. I haven't seen them since last Thursday, so I'm debating, but, I'll probably take them to dinner and let her have them since I have them Thursday night and this weekend.

 

She said something the other day about "lots of other stuff going on" so I'm just guessing that there are issues with OM, but I certainly am not going to ask...I really don't want to know.

 

Her mom is coming to town this Thursday and she's always loved me. I got a nice call from her last week saying that she was looking forward to seeing me and thanked me for offering her as much time as she wanted with the kids. I talked with my W last week and she mentioned maybe all of us going and doing something together...we'll see.

 

Really hard to do NC/LC sometimes, but, I feel that I can do it mentally and emotionally, even if I can't always do it physically.

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[Craig2425]

So I'm texting stbx abiut our daughter and Easter. It's her weekend this weekend but I have young nieces and nephews and asked if I could take her for a bit. She said ok just let me have her in the morning so she can spend time too.

I then ask her what shes doing for a basket etc. She just started her new job so she hasn't gotten paid yet . I haven't gotten one yet either so I say I'll just buy a bigger one from both of us.

A couple mins go by then I get this

We have an appt at 1130 tomorrow eighths councilor (I found and asked her to go to) can you make it?

I said yes.

I also asked what this means. She said she doesn't know if she wants to try. Just see what the councilor says and if she feels good and can move forward then she will try.

[Craig2425]

Any thoughts? Am I being setup to get hurt again?

[dreamingoftigers]

Expect a rejection but act completely in control. Think 180, breathe 180, live 180.

 

If she asks of anything has been changing tell the counselor that you have thought a lot about the situation and that you wish for your wife's happiness and that if she has to do this to be happy... Then by all means. You and your daughter will be okay and happy together. Ball is in your w's court and if age wants to see something different from you SHE has to spell out exactly what that is. You cannot be expected to read her mind.

 

If she goes on the offensive, do NOT defend yourself, do not AGREE WITH HER.

 

If she zigs, don't zig with her and don't zag.... Go left.

 

I.e. "he wouldn't come to bed with me..."

 

You: "I guess that could be frustrating, let me know if that is something you would want to see and maybe something will change. No pressure."

 

It sucks being the spouse left because your head gets screwed around and then you are supposed to find a way to put together the 2000 piece jigsaw puzzle while being dizzy beyond belief and on a timer!

 

While she sits back and criticizes!

[Craig2425]

She said that there was an opening tomorrow but if we keep going it will be at night on Tuesdays.

I looked at her fb and she's still friends with on and his friends.

Guess I'll find out tomorrow

[dreamingoftigers]

Honestly he doesn't matter. He is a symptom of her issues, nit the core problem as much as he feels like it. Whether he is in the picture or not, hold to that 180.

[Craig2425]

Ok . So she called and made the appt without me knowing.

Then she said she's still not sure if she wants to try. She wants to see what the councilor says ,shes not jumping ahead.she wants to be realistic and see if the councilor is encouraging towards our marriage then if she feels good with it she will try.

 

Why would she tell me just a few days ago that she's 100% sure that she's done and we can't work then all of a sudden she makes this appt?

Now even tho she's made it shes still saying she doesn't know?

I've heard horror stories about councilors . I looked around and she seemed like she was pro marriage so I hope she doesn't screw me.

Well I'll let you guys know how this goes.

[johan]

I read the first post and some of the more recent ones. Craig, you can go through the motions and let it all play out. And maybe you should. Because that may be the only way you finally come to the conclusion on your own that there is no hope.

 

She'd feeding you crumbs. That's not love. It won't turn into love. You have to figure out how to let go.

[dreamingoftigers]

Ok . So she called and made the appt without me knowing.

Then she said she's still not sure if she wants to try. She wants to see what the councilor says ,shes not jumping ahead.she wants to be realistic and see if the councilor is encouraging towards our marriage then if she feels good with it she will try.

 

Why would she tell me just a few days ago that she's 100% sure that she's done and we can't work then all of a sudden she makes this appt?

Now even tho she's made it shes still saying she doesn't know?

I've heard horror stories about councilors . I looked around and she seemed like she was pro marriage so I hope she doesn't screw me.

Well I'll let you guys know how this goes.

 

Don't even go to the trying/not trying thing. Just don't go there.

 

Go in, keep to 180 and mention her happiness and you working on your own happiness and if she says "blah, I want to try" or "blah I don't wanna try" or "blah I think I might wanna try."

 

You don't zig or zag, you go left and say something along the lines of: "well I just want to work out some basic issues and resolve some conflicts married or not. We still have a daughter and should be able to come up with a format to keep things under wraps with one another, instead of letting our personal conflicts come up all the time."

 

YOU GO LEFT.....Make it seem like you can take or leave her trying but "it would be appreciated....."

 

Develop the "it would be appreciated, um, pass the salt" attitude or you stay dead in the water.

 

You can fake it for an hour, right?

[Steadfast]

...I try to avoid relationship talk, etc. but I also try to not be rude or confrontational. She often likes to tell me about what's happening with OM and his stbx because she says that I should know what's going on in case his stbx tries to contact me or so that I can keep an eye on the kids to make sure they're doing alright...total bs but I don't stop her, I let her talk and then just give a "Thanks, well, we gotta get going...."

 

Great post, great approach and a great application of going NC while sharing custody. What I like best about this example is there is absolutely no game playing, hoping or scheming present. This is the way out.

 

As for the counseling, the wondering and the guessing you're involved in, I'll write this one more time; until she says "I'm sorry. I love you and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage" you have nothing. Just more limbo, more crumbs, more stalling and more her hoping for something 'better'.

 

I did the exact same thing as Debtman three years ago. In time, it allowed me to focus less what she was doing and more on what I'd do. Basically, you're removing yourself from her decision making process, forcing her to stand on her own. She may not love you, but she will respect you. Leave her alone Craig. Focus on the kids and when she talks, listen, but don't respond unless you hear the above statement.

[Craig2425]

Well counseling went pretty good I think.

She wasn't just saying stuff or pissed blaming me for everything. She admitted that she's really hurt from what I done and she never wanted to do this.

We both got some stuff out(that we've been trying to) with the 3rd party there it forced her to listen.

The counsilor said that with all the stuff we've both read and problems not being too bad we have a real good shot.

Soon to be ex towards the end asked her what would be the best way to fix this(live together or stay separated?). Also said that she wants to.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well counseling went pretty good I think.

She wasn't just saying stuff or pissed blaming me for everything. She admitted that she's really hurt from what I done and she never wanted to do this.

We both got some stuff out(that we've been trying to) with the 3rd party there it forced her to listen.

The counsilor said that with all the stuff we've both read and problems not being too bad we have a real good shot.

Soon to be ex towards the end asked her what would be the best way to fix this(live together or stay separated?). Also said that she wants to.

 

Okay now...

 

I have been waiting all day for your update!

 

Good news, but remember things will go South from here a little bit. Hold to your 180 and don't react to her nervous shifting.

 

[fltc]

I read the first post and some of the more recent ones. Craig, you can go through the motions and let it all play out. And maybe you should. Because that may be the only way you finally come to the conclusion on your own that there is no hope.

 

She'd feeding you crumbs. That's not love. It won't turn into love. You have to figure out how to let go.

 

What he said!

 

With one added thought, you can save yourself a lot of hurt if you'll admit to yourself it's over and move on now rather than trying to prolong it.

[Craig2425]

Maybe you nay sayers are right? But I came here for hope and I feel like Even if the counseling doesn't work I'll know (for me) I gave it everything I could for me,my daughter and my family.

In the end that's all that matters

[johan]

I think what you're doing is the right thing to do. It's at least the respectable thing to do. But I also feel like honest answers are the right thing to provide you. Not in order to discourage you, but because it really is your decision how long to endure the torment. Riding it out to the bitter end is not what's best for you or anyone else.

[dreamingoftigers]

Maybe you nay sayers are right? But I came here for hope and I feel like Even if the counseling doesn't work I'll know (for me) I gave it everything I could for me,my daughter and my family.

In the end that's all that matters

 

That's the way that I feel too, but I think I hit my limit or I am really close.

[Craig2425]

Thanks. I appreciate all advise. Ive only got 4 weeks till the end now so at this point why Not?

For the first time she on her own has made an effort into fixing this.

She called the mc(that I found)

She asked what we can do to fix this

And that she wanted to.

I wasn't trying to be a di_k. Was just saying that who knows, maybe you guys are right.

But for me I just need to know and I think mc is gonna do that.

[dreamingoftigers]

Dude, you might even get legally divorced, it doesn't mean that if things start picking up that they need to shut down.

[dreamingoftigers]

Who filed btw?

[Craig2425]

I left and wanted out but I was never available to do it so she said she would(and did). She didn't want to and took along time to do it.

I guess this was around the time I was still frustrated and had resentment towards her but just started reading online abiut different needs so I wasn't In such a rush either.

[dreamingoftigers]

That totally sucks.

 

Have you guys thought about maybe having a month-90 days of NC?

 

Or a healing separation?

[Steadfast]

Maybe you nay sayers are right? But I came here for hope and I feel like Even if the counseling doesn't work I'll know (for me) I gave it everything I could for me,my daughter and my family.

In the end that's all that matters

 

Speaking personally Craig, I'm not a 'naysayer'. You're way off. I don't want anyone to get divorced, I don't like seeing families torn apart...mine, yours or anyone's. Are you saying we don't believe you? Or that you haven't received the information you were looking for?

 

I think what you're doing is the right thing to do. It's at least the respectable thing to do. But I also feel like honest answers are the right thing to provide you.

 

This is my position as well. What do you want? The magic formula to make this all go away? It doesn't exist. Here's the bottom line; lots of people that love each other get divorced, but very, very few that love and respect each other do. Respect means not 'punishing' your spouse because you can't control them or because they upset you. Damn it man! That isn't love!

 

Words don't bring people together, the actions and intent behind them do. And that's only happens if both are willing to enter and stay.

 

I wish you all the best Craig. I know you love your wife and family, but you're not going to gain much here on LS by twisting it until you read what you want to read. Hang in there for a long as it takes...why not? Divorce doesn't have to be the end of the game either, but it usually is.

 

People here speak from experience, and I'm sure your councilor does too. I think all mean well. Again, speaking personally I have no agenda, but if you're looking to heal and move on (married or unmarried) you have good support here.

[willowthewisp]

Maybe you nay sayers are right? But I came here for hope and I feel like Even if the counseling doesn't work I'll know (for me) I gave it everything I could for me,my daughter and my family.

In the end that's all that matters

 

Really pleased to hear that the counselling went well Craig and I think you are doing the right things by pursuing it. I don't think there is a single person here who in your position would not give it everything before throwing in the towel. When I hear you speak about your marriage I see a couple who DO love each other but do not have the tools of communication that they need, hence why you left in the first place. Then add in the betrayal and lack of trust your wife feels as a result and it's a big old mess. But it is a mess that can be fixed (hopefully) and now that you have demonstarted to your wife that you respect her (she asked you to leave her alone to make the decision to try by herself, which you did by going 180 and NC) she is now willing to try.

 

I never had the opprotunity you had so I can't offer advice on what to do from here, I would imagine a lot of patience is going to be required.

 

Good luck and please do keep posting and let us know how things are going for you.

[dreamingoftigers]

Me personally, I post in a direction that exhausts all possibilities before ending a marriage. Mostly if there are children involved. I am well aware that most dating relationships can carry the same emotional weight of a marriage, but hf someone is doing deal-breaking mistakes during the dating period, then they fail the marital audition JMO. It's what I believe in so I post that way because in the long run the children of that marriage will be the most affected. Most adults if they choose will get remarried and they can take certain relational cautions to not get hurt again.

 

It is children that see and experience the affects of their parent's relationship affect them quite often their whole lives. Pattern get set up in their minds that are very tough to take. Whereas we as adults may be able to define the what's and why's of a situation and see an obvious consequence, our children often can't and often they take responsibilty for their parent's actions. The brain does this to give them some illusion of control over the brutality of their situation.

 

For Craig himself, yes he personally may feel somewhat better if he cuts it off completely. But having they baggage of not being able to 100% for sure tell himself and his daughter that he did EVERYTHING not just went ABOVE and BEYOND but did EVERYTHING will hurt his own self-paradigm.IMO.

 

Craig you will get to the point where you are exhausted and know they you have hit your limit and gone as far as you can go and went much further then most and you will be able to let it go with actually relatively little pain and you will respect yourself for having done what you set out to do. Or you will reconcile and know that what you did brought yourself self-respect as well.

 

The most important part is choosing that self-respect whether it be in leaving or staying. You know the risks at this point, they stare you in the face everyday. You know that there is a great chance that it isn't love and that she may never ever respect you. You have chosen to operate on the assumption that if there is a million dollars in this dump truck of manure that you are going to find it.

 

It you get halfway to three quarters of the way through the manure, it seems kind of dumb to quit now considering you are already pretty dirty and smelly with the stuff. You are going to shower off one way or the other, you might as well know for sure at this point whether that rumored million-dollar briefcase is in there or not. You aren't going to get dirtier or smellier at this point. You are as dirty and smelly as you are going to get.

 

I think it is funny on my thread that as soon as my husband was headed for treatment I got more posters saying to dump him. I badgered him for two years to go something about his problem and the second he does, I dump him?

 

"Dear husband since you gave finally taken a healthy step towards our family getting healed I have decided that I respect myself enough to drop your ass. I hope that your problem gets solved, I am off to date the next guy."

 

Some people see "too little, too late" or " that's all you are doing so far." others have a different lens and see.... Hey there is a little breadcrumb trail here, that might lead to something. Before she was giving 1%, now she is giving 10%, that's tenfold in a week, even if she gains a percent a week that means in two years, we can have a healthy marriage."

 

Investing in that way makes sense.

 

In most modern marriages based on percentages alone either you are your spouse are very likely going to do a "dealbreaking" behaviour. That doesn't mean that you "have to" or "should" put up with it. What I am saying is that risks come with the territory of being married to another human being and that through the capacity to survive a dealbreaking behaviour, it might sti be very possible to negotiate a stronger and happier marriage.

 

80% of couples married over 20 years have gone through a separation of two months or more.

 

The majority of people that are married it seems do not have the skills for great conflict-resolution. Most of is married people learn it trial by fire.