Is there hope?

[dreamingoftigers]

So she wrote me back from my response to not wanting to go tomorrow.

I completely understand. I'm really sorry. I wanted to try for Daughter but I just can't. It's just too hard.

 

Just let it go for now.

[Craig2425]

Nothing like starting over on the nc. I think it's harder this time.

Didn't realize how dependent I am on her and I'm really depressed. Went for a hike and played hockey today and I camt get her out of my head.

Any help with that???

[Yasuandio]

I have medications prescibed by a doctor (xanex, adavan). But I already had an issue with an anxiety disorder. I have been NC two straight months and my head is still full of obsessive thoughts. (separated over 2 years).

 

1. When I'm trying to sleep - and I can't get the thoughts out of my mind, I slowly count from 100 to zero in my head. If it's really bad maybe I'll start at 200 or 300.

 

2. Another thing you can do is say the word "one" in your head very slowly, over and over again. Let the word "one" resonate or deeply ring like a big, loud bell - or grandfather's clock measuring and sounding off one more hour.

 

You cannot think about your wife when you are conducting either of these suggestions (or similar mental activity). If you can stop the obsessive thinking for just awhile -- another "mental activity" may be enough to break the pattern of the anxiety-ridden thinking. For me, this works better than the drugs on the "thinking" aspect of the symptoms many times.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Yasuandio

[Craig2425]

This song is exactly how I feel.

 

If you're going out with someone new

I'm going out with someone too

I won't feel sorry for me, I'm getting drunk

But I'd much rather be somewhere with you

 

Laughing loud on a carnival ride, yeah

Driving around on a Saturday night

You made fun of me for singing my song

Got a hotel room just to turn you on

 

You said pick me up at three a.m.

You're fighting with your mom again

And I'd go, I'd go, I'd go somewhere with you

 

I won't sit outside your house

And wait for the lights to go out

Call up an ex to rescue me, climb in their bed

When I'd much rather sleep somewhere with you

 

Like we did on the beach last summer

When the rain came down and we took cover

Down in your car, out by the pier

You laid me down, whispered in my ear

 

I hate my life, hold on to me

Ah, if you ever decide to leave

Then I'll go, I'll go, I'll go

 

I can go out every night of the week

Can go home with anybody I meet

But it's just a temporary high 'cause when I close my eyes

I'm somewhere with you, somewhere with you

 

If you see me out on the town

And it looks like I'm burning it down

You won't ask and I won't say

But in my heart I'm always somewhere with you

 

Laughing loud on a carnival ride, yeah

Driving around on a Saturday night

You made fun of me for singing my song

Got a hotel room just to turn you on

 

You said pick me up at three a.m.

You're fighting with your mom again

And I'd go, I'd go, I'd go

 

I can go out every night of the week

Can go home with anybody I meet

But it's just a temporary high 'cause when I close my eyes

I'm somewhere with you, somewhere with you

 

Somewhere with you

I'm somewhere with you

I'm somewhere with you

Somewhere with you

Somewhere with you

[Steadfast]

You love her. She knows. You're not perfect. She knows that too. It always comes back to the same thing Craig; you can't put your thoughts or your soul into someone else's body. If you could, it would ruin everything. It would ruin what love is. Pain and pleasure are closer than you think.

 

For now, leave her alone. Do what is right when you have a choice and be kind. Life has a way of leading us if our motivation is sincere and our intentions are honorable.

 

Let your actions speak.

[debtman]

Craig,

Hardest thing you'll ever do. Hit the 180, stick to NC/LC, focus on yourself. As far as taking your mind off her, let me know if you figure that one out.

 

A few things I've done that work (usually):

 

1) meditation (similar to what Yas said, instead of trying to "clear" your mind, just focus on your breathing, silently count your breaths 1 to 10, focusing on the number over and over during each breath, if you get distracted or start thinking about something else, start over, you'll be able to track your focus and progress...took me a few weeks before I could get to 10 consistently)

 

2) exercise...hard...use your anger, frustration and emotions to drive yourself. I've been able to push myself much harder the past few months.

 

3) friends, family, activities. Get out and distract yourself.

 

Of course, just when you start to feel like you're sufficiently distracting yourself, the dreams will start and you'll wake up in the middle of the night feeling lower than ever. Don't know what to tell you about that except that when I exercise hard, I sleep better...

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[Yasuandio]

I think listening to music with those type of lyrics is just asking for it. Try some up beat Stones, or some punk, Goth, or German eletronic is totally cool. Something really different with words that make no sense to you. The sound track to "Run Lola Run" is fab. Maybe see the movie on Netflex first. It is never ending high energy sound. I really enjoy the contempoary rock music in heavier languages such as German, Japanese, Portguese (Brazilian) and Russian. Just an idea.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Yasuandio

[debtman]

I think listening to music with those type of lyrics is just asking for it. Try some up beat Stones, or some punk, Goth, or German eletronic is totally cool. Something really different with words that make no sense to you. The sound track to "Run Lola Run" is fab. Maybe see the movie on Netflex first. It is never ending high energy sound. I really enjoy the contempoary rock music in heavier languages such as German, Japanese, Portguese (Brazilian) and Russian. Just an idea.

 

Excellent advice Yas. I've been listening to Vinnie Paz (which is weird because I'm not usually a fan of rap) and Streetlight Manifesto (some nice, high energy ska)...

 

It's a good outlet...

[What_Next]

Music.... Great for the soul, harmful for the soul. A double edged sword. I could go from singing at the top of my lungs while driving down the highway in my truck (my happy place ) to being brought to tears in a second by the wrong song. My solution, stick to the AC/DC, Floyd, etc, LOUD!! I mean LOUD!!

 

Also (and not to state the obvious) do not for heavens sake crawl inside a bottle to help with this. I know, I know, it's as obvious as the sunrise, but it can happen in an instant. Trust me. I spent the better part of 4 months inside a bottle and the impact on my body and heck even my employment was severe.

 

I do think exercise is key. Physically challenge yourself, because once your body is tired enough, it'll rest and tell your ever moving brain to shut the hell up.

[dreamingoftigers]

It is all about programming your limbic system not to be dependent on her, so do things that help heal your limbic system like exercise and meditation. When you meditate you go until those thoughts fall out if your head. You let them go and then you can stay centered. Virtually everytime I have meditated it has helped. I really should do it more often. EMDR therapy also really really helps ( I have probably posted this before)

[starting2wakeup]

Music.... Great for the soul, harmful for the soul. A double edged sword.

 

W_N hit the nail right on the head. Music is great at stirring emotions. You just have to make sure you are stirring positive ones. Don't listen to anything that could potentially draw a tear from your eye, unless it's a tear of joy. Believe it or not there are songs out there that almost seemed designed to help one stick with NC/LC. One of my favorites is

.

[Craig2425]

So I was doing nc and she text me abiut our daughter joins swim lessons tomorrow night.

I said that's cool she will have a blast. How much is it I'd like to pay for half.

She responds with the time and price and asks if I'm gonna go. I said no. It's not fair to me or our daughter with everything that's been going on.

I said I would like it if we could switch weeks so I could see her swim tho.

She responded with

Welli think it would be better for our daughter to have both parents there for this kinda stuff but I'll respect your decision.

I just said thanks and bye but wanted to say it would be better for our daughter if we were togeher.

Anyways I feel like she's trying to guilt me I to hanging out(circus and now

Swimming).

Am I wrong? Should I just have sucked it up and go to the swimming lessons?

Maybe later I will be fine with that but after all the yanking back and forth i just don't think I can.

Any input?

[Yasuandio]

Perfect! You did great. She is baiting you, and you ARE NOT taking the bait. That's called a Mega Left Turn, buddy (or a 180). And she may be frustrated. Maybe you could consider pepping it up a bit!

 

Like Debtman, those quality-time days alone with your child are going to be way different than SOP. These will be extremely unique and special days -- there is no way you will want to share them IF you end up splitting for good. I came up with some double-speak responses you may or may not like, as it appears you may have a chance to answer this question again.

 

1. Circular Sentence

 

Why would we go together if we're no longer together?

 

2. Excessive Word Repetition

 

Why would we want to appear together in FRONT of Suzy if our "togetherness" is really a FRONT? We would never conFRONT her with anything confusing, right?

 

3. More Complicated Than Necessary

 

Figuratively speaking, of course, and with all due respect, why would we want to symbolically appear as if we are together as a couple in FRONT of Suzy when, in reality, we would actuality be, putting on a FRONT that might cause our daughter some confusion as to our separation status as it stands at this point in time? I certainly don't mean to put you on the spot, however I really believe we must conFRONT this issue as soon as possible, don't you agree?

 

4. Overly Positive Attitude With a Compliment

 

YOU HAVE SUCH GREAT IDEAS! Which are my days? And, please, I do want to contribute my fair share! How much is it? (basically what you did, but fast, and really super-duper enthusism.)

 

5. Purposely Misunderstanding

 

Oh, did you say together? I see. She's bringing a friend along?!? That's nice. Talk to you later, by!

 

 

These are a couple of styles that I find useful when someone is irratating me. They tend to leave the respondant with a "duh" expression because they sound like they make sense, and some of them do!

Edited April 6, 2011 by Yasuandio

[trippi1432]

Craig - Just noting a pattern....she gave up the OG to attempt to try and work on things...however, you have both been going about it all wrong. Instead of truly working on what is wrong....what you have already stated in your first posts on LS, you have both been riding the coat tails of emotions...creating this whole push/pull dilemma and NC that you are in.

 

I'm just going to put this out there and perhaps I am wrong, but exactly when did the two of you sit down and have an open and honest discussion (and I mean straight from the hip discussion...she gets her stuff out and you acknowledge her feelings...point/counter/reset to let that sink in...you get your stuff out and let her acknowledge your feelings...not in retaliation, but your actual needs). Essentially, that you understand that her emotional needs were not met which probably led to the lack of sex and your subsequent leaving. Again, I am taking this from your cumulative postings here. Begging is one thing...yours and hers...it doesn't work because it shows desperation and not maturity. Did either of you get to forgiveness of the part of the relationship that didn't work before you went on the trip where she blew hot/cold? If not, then she will continue to blow hot/cold until both of you lay down your pride and talk that out. She's hurt/You're hurt....you can spend all the time together in the world, but until that is hashed out and you can both get to forgiveness...nothing will be resolved.

 

When my exH left the first time, I paid the $$$ and called Divorce Care....my exH came back in a few weeks because I showed him sincerity. I had hoped that MC would get us back on track....but it didn't because he has always hated therapists as he would have to look at his own behavior and felt judged (his own words during our separation). Like your wife, my exH said and did mean things during that month that he was back home....even cutting off our wedding song in the car on the way to MC when it came on the radio saying that he always hated that song (sober). Screaming at me on the phone because I couldn't control our son's bus schedule (sober). Reducing me to tears in front of dinner guests saying only his best friend knew him and I didn't (drunk). Just my personal side as he was/is an alcoholic...not to say that is your situation...but they blow hot/cold as well due to emotional instability. What did I do wrong during that time....I went on with life as I knew it when he came back..hoping that MC would work it out. Guess what he told me when he left again...for good..I DIDN'T CHANGE FOR HIM. And no, that wasn't the right thing either as no one should have to totally change for someone else...but two people do need to see their behavior and how it affects the relationship dynamic...something that was noted in your posts that you now see where things went bad and wanted to resolve them. To regain trust in any relationship...there must be consistency....every little action on your part will represent that. The big actions mean little to women...it's the little actions that speak to them.

 

I am telling you this because, your going NC with her is only reaffirming that you are again abandoning her....even more, she can now attest and tell her friends and family that you won't go to the circus or the swim meets with her and your child as a family....and they will validate her because you are showing her this with your actions. I'm not saying let her walk all over you, but what I am saying is tell her that you will be at these things for your daughter because they are FOR your daughter....maybe not the circus...but at least the swim meet. Be firm that you are there for your daughter...but until she knows what she wants, you cannot be there for her. Understand that by being apart you cannot prove to her that you can resolve her emotional needs unless she is willing to forgive that you now realize what the issues were leading up to your leaving. Emotional needs are not met by agreeing to sleep here or there...nor by going on a vacation...nor by going to the circus....they are met by consistent actions of little things that mean a lot....that is the 180.

[Craig2425]

I'm lc due to our child. Also it's not a swim meet it's lessons.

You're right we haven't had a serious talk about us but that's because she has said that she has a lot of hate towards me and can't forgive me yet.

She doesn't know if she ever can or ever be truly happy with me.

She know how I feel and what I want as I've told her that I want our marriage and willing to work on us. Told her that this is on her (not wanting to try) but since she told me she wished that she would have wanted to try on her own and not because of begging I'd respect her decision and leave her alone.

When she told me she had a lot of hate towards me she said that she couldn't forgive me yet or try 100%.

How is this me abandoning her again if I've told her multiple times how I feel and what I want? Also she said that she wished she would have chose this (to try) on her own.

So am I not doing the right thing by giving her space like she asked for ?

 

 

That's two responses I've gotten on this question and there're both different.

I'm open to ideas and the swim lesson isn't until tomorrow so I could still make it.

Just want to do the right thing but not get yanked around anymore.

Thanks

Edited April 7, 2011 by Craig2425

[Craig2425]

This Fu----g sucks so bad. This was my idea to take her to the circus and now I'm missing her first time.

I feel like I should just be moving on.

I mean clearly she wants nothing to do with me and has had a bf for 3-4 months.

I dunno just so pissed off right now.

[updown]

you did the right thing regarding the circus and swim lessons. no, both parents do not need to be there for swim lessons, and you were nice and offered two very acceptable solutions. pay half and switch off weeks.

 

my personal take on your back and forth is that she wants you to be the dad, and maybe a friend, but not the husband. my advice is to stop the dating, and "family" outings til you two go to some couples couseling, or parenting counseling, or parenting classes. you will have to co parent your daughter regardless of if you are together or not. if you are together you will live in the same house and therefore some things will be easier. but, you two still need to work out the ground work for co parenting period!

 

she wants her space, so give it to her. if you can work on being the daddy. i don't know if it's possible to "just be friends." to me it seems like she just wants you there to do the family stuff, but not the married husband stuff. trippi said a lot of really great stuff. re read her post. a couple times.

 

regarding swim lessons, you can show up. or try again to compromise and see if you could do an every other week. NONE Of my friends have taken their kids to swim lessons as couples. i can't think of a single one.

 

if i were in your shoes. i would do the 180. work on yourself as much as you can. if my wife were to contact me and suggest things like trips and outings as a family, i would tell her that i would love to but i think we need to meet with a counselor of sorts at least a couple times before we start doing family dates, or trips together. i'd tell her i love her and i want this to work, but in order for that to happen, we need to carve out time in our week to sit together with a third party and discuss a whole lotta stuff without life being there to get in the way. we can't have a successful outing or date until we sit down and talk some of this through. it just won't work.

 

that's what i would do in your shoes. but, like so many things in life.... easier said than done. right?

 

keep posting!

[dreamingoftigers]

One pattern that I noticed between my husband and myself was that we would vent a lot of feelings at each other or tell the other what they were doing 'wrong."

 

We wouldn't tell each other what we wanted to see, if you get the opportunity and she says "I just don't know if I can be happy with you" or "you are just going to xyz"

 

Just ask her what she would like to see, tell her "I know what isn't working for you, but I don't know what would work, what would help you feel better, so why don't you tell me so that I can show you."

 

This has actually forced my husband to really think about what it is he actually wants, instead of me guessing and getting it wrong. Anytime there is a negative venting going on, ask what she wants instead because knowing what she doesn't isn't as helpful.

[dreamingoftigers]

Dammit, you guys started on opposite sides of the forest and managed to meet in the middle but one of you is on one side of the tree and the other is on the other and you can't see each other and think that you are lost, there is only 6 feet between you!

[Craig2425]

The thing that pisses me off the most is all the little comments she says.

She's been thinking abiut this and us since this happened in oct. She can't try yet, not right now

Maybe one day?

Does she think that if we go thru the divorce I'm still gonna just be waiting on her?

We have a little over a month till this is final and that's it.

She also contradicts herself by saying stuff like she's not mad and it's nothing to do with anybody else then shes so mad and hatred towards me that she can't forgive and take fault for her actions in our marriage.

One of the last things she said to me was I've been thinking since oct. Don't wait on me

I don't want to try and I'm not dating anyone.

 

Sorry . It's late(early) and I'm just rambling on.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh I am sure that there is a list.

 

You know what, D doesn't matter as long as you still have that swinging emotional connection.

 

My god are you guys ever not ready for D.

 

Maybe post-D might even take a lot of the pressure off and you can 180 in peace.

 

Is that why everything is such a pressure-cooker?

 

BTW my PM box has space now.

[marqueemoon4]

This Fu----g sucks so bad. This was my idea to take her to the circus and now I'm missing her first time.

I feel like I should just be moving on.

I mean clearly she wants nothing to do with me and has had a bf for 3-4 months.

I dunno just so pissed off right now.

 

Craig if she has a boyfriend and you're still legally married you should try and prove adultery. I'm not sure how your state looks at this, but in VA they definitely take it seriously. If nothing else you have some leverage if things continue to get worse between the two of you and could help with custody.

[Steadfast]

People seem to think that divorce makes everything so final...like it'll all be over and somehow you'll mysteriously turn into strangers or something. It doesn't happen.

 

This is a situation filled with push and pull...hers and yours. She has to understand that you two being apart means you make your decisions -even the ones regarding being a father- by yourself. She has no imput, or should have none.

 

But...good luck with that. Three years on, my ex still thinks she has a say in my business. Her feelings get hurt when I remind her she doesn't, making one more 'situation' to deal with.

 

With all the back and forth between you and all of the conflicting advice you've received here, anyone would be lost and confused Craig.

 

Someone suggested sitting down with her and clearing the air, once and for all. I think that's a good idea. Agree beforehand that both must honestly share how they feel, and that answers like "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" aren't allowed where your relationship exists. If she isn't willing to do this and wants to continue in limbo...half in, half out, keeping you on the string, then it'll be time to just move on with your life. What choice does she leave you?

 

I know it isn't easy but people break up and get back together all the time. It isn't a good pattern to repeat, but that doesn't apply in your case. The 'X factor' here is her BF. She cannot make any wise decisions regarding your relationship as long as there is another man in the picture. This alone might be enough for you to call it off.

 

IMO, she's using your leaving as emotional blackmail to explore her options. There's a good chance she was thinking about stepping out before you left, but you doing so gave her and perfect weapon to test the waters while keeping you on emotional tenderhooks. A woman who truly loves her man would do no such thing. That's a fact.

 

Enough about her prolonged suffering and pain. That should have ended with your apology and desire to come back.

[Craig2425]

I know I shouldn't have but I did. I've looked at her facebook and I see that she keeps adding more of other guys friends on her friend list.plus shes still has him as a friend too.

Says she's not dating him but stuff doesn't add up. I think she's just saying that she's not and just waiting till we are final.

[dreamingoftigers]

As I said to you in PM: if she is trying to go in two directions at once she will get nowhere.

 

Didn't realize that she was still involved with OM. then she just blames you for what goes wrong!

 

If she is "trying" and trying to show her daughter that she is "trying" then she is being incredibly unfair to everyone in the situation including herself.

 

Cut her loose.