Tony...my mentor...

[Paulie]

Tony, you are really a saint, and a stud. I really appreciate your sage advice, in response to my postings, as well as to those of others.

 

You might recall my posting far below, but just in case, I'll recap. My girlfriend of three years went to europe for the summer, and everything was wonderful when she left. The relationship was very much based on "needs," but there was love there as well. When I dropped her off at the airport, she couldn't let me go. A week later...I noticed less calls, and a colder attitude, which got me scared. I naturally inquired what was going on, she called me less and less, and told me she needed space, wanted to stay out until all hours with her friends, etc. Eventually she started saying B.S. like that she loved me, but was "looking around." I tried to give her space, but really just wanted a nice, heartfelt reassurance that she really loved me, and truly just was having a good time, but the vibes that I was getting were significantly colder. Well, eventually she broke up with me, and I told her that, while it hurt me tremendously, I would give her that, but asked that she not call me for a while, so that I could heal. Right before she came back from europe (a few days ago) I started getting e-mails that she still loved me, wanted to HANG OUT with me,and misses me. She also began continually calling me. Naturally, I got hopeful that maybe she was sorry and wanted me back. To make a long story short...I met up with her for lunch, and she told me that she now has a boyfriend in europe, and plans to visit him frequently (she has the financial ability to do so). This also means that she was sleeping with him when I was hopeful of getting back together. Over lunch, she told me that the new boyfriend (who doesn't have much going for him) is "strong," and that me showing weakness (when she went away and didn't call me) was a turnoff. Basically, I am kicking myself in the ass because I feel like less of a man because I acted like an insecure girl in displaying my emotions and insecurities to this girl, and am upset that it may have been my attempt at communicating my feelings that lost the love of my life. Also, even though I have come to realize that maybe she isn't the right girl for me (due to constant fighting, clashing values, etc.) it really really hurts that I acted like less of a man by displaying my emotions, and now some other guy has the woman I love because he is "strong." The thought of her being intimate with another man because he's "more of a man" than me, really, really hurts. Tony, this woman made me feel like SO much of a man for three years, and yesterday I looked into her eyes and felt so much pain because I no longer look like a man in her eyes, and know that this person with whom I have so much emotions and history with, is the latest conquest of some other guy, who in her words, is strong around her, but also has a history of being a womanizer. I never cheated once on this girl, and truly wanted to marry her. Knowing that she's on the other side of town, in love with another man, who's more "strong" than me...just devastates me. How can I get over the fact that she's with another guy?

[Tony T]

Well, first, I recall your post really well and I recall that in no uncertain terms I told you to write her butt off. The fact that you didn't shows you are lacking in emotional strength but there may be hope for you.

 

Why in heaven's name would you call a girl the love of your life when she hugs you passionately at the airport, leaves the country, and a week or two later falls in love in Europe and writes your can off. To me, that sounds like an immature, selfish, spacey, flakey airhead.

 

OK, if you find immature, selfish, spacey, flakey airheads to be the stuff that would make the love of your life, you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM finding another one real fast becuase there are a lot around.

 

Even if this girl drops this guy tomorrow, YOU SHOULD NEVER, EVER GO BACK WITH HER. She is so unstable, so extremely immature, so fickle it is pathetic. She is very young and you served her life well for the time you were together. She has now reached a new level of immaturity and flakiness so she needs this guy in Europe to fill her needs at this time. He is probably equal in airheadedness to her.

 

YOU DON'T NEED THIS GIRL TO WASH YOUR CAR, MUCH LESS BE YOUR GIRLFRIEND.

 

It's great that you enjoyed your time with her. She was different then or she was just fooling the hell out of you. More than likely she was using you, even without knowing it consciously.

 

I wish you would have read my earlier post a little bit better. You just don't seem to get it. You do sound like a very nice guy but when you learn that love is not a cone of sweet soft serve ice cream but a serious business not designed for lovesick wimps, then you can have any situation you want on the planet.

 

I'm not advising you to became a mean or insensitive person. What I am trying to get you to understand is that you have to be firm, assertive and not take any crap from ladies or from any person in your life. As a matter of fact, they won't tell you this but many girls will test a man to see just how much of their crap the guy will take. If you take stuff off of them, they will manipulate you, get what they can from you, eat you up and spit you out in the sewer. You are lucky if they say Bye Bye.

 

This girl has told you what most any girl will tell you if they have enough guts....THEY WANT A STRONG MAN. Not so much strong physically but a MAN who is a MAN, who they can look up to, A MAN WHO WILL TAKE CHARGE AND WHO CANNOT BE USED OR MANIPULATED. Give her a lot of credit for telling you this. It may be just what you needed to change your life for the better. (I told you before she did!!!_

 

GET STRONG, BUB, OR GET STEPPED ON FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

[Larry]

Well, first, I recall your post really well and I recall that in no uncertain terms I told you to write her butt off. The fact that you didn't shows you are lacking in emotional strength but there may be hope for you. Why in heaven's name would you call a girl the love of your life when she hugs you passionately at the airport, leaves the country, and a week or two later falls in love in Europe and writes your can off. To me, that sounds like an immature, selfish, spacey, flakey airhead. OK, if you find immature, selfish, spacey, flakey airheads to be the stuff that would make the love of your life, you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM finding another one real fast becuase there are a lot around. Even if this girl drops this guy tomorrow, YOU SHOULD NEVER, EVER GO BACK WITH HER. She is so unstable, so extremely immature, so fickle it is pathetic. She is very young and you served her life well for the time you were together. She has now reached a new level of immaturity and flakiness so she needs this guy in Europe to fill her needs at this time. He is probably equal in airheadedness to her. YOU DON'T NEED THIS GIRL TO WASH YOUR CAR, MUCH LESS BE YOUR GIRLFRIEND. It's great that you enjoyed your time with her. She was different then or she was just fooling the hell out of you. More than likely she was using you, even without knowing it consciously.

 

I wish you would have read my earlier post a little bit better. You just don't seem to get it. You do sound like a very nice guy but when you learn that love is not a cone of sweet soft serve ice cream but a serious business not designed for lovesick wimps, then you can have any situation you want on the planet. I'm not advising you to became a mean or insensitive person. What I am trying to get you to understand is that you have to be firm, assertive and not take any crap from ladies or from any person in your life. As a matter of fact, they won't tell you this but many girls will test a man to see just how much of their crap the guy will take. If you take stuff off of them, they will manipulate you, get what they can from you, eat you up and spit you out in the sewer. You are lucky if they say Bye Bye. This girl has told you what most any girl will tell you if they have enough guts....THEY WANT A STRONG MAN. Not so much strong physically but a MAN who is a MAN, who they can look up to, A MAN WHO WILL TAKE CHARGE AND WHO CANNOT BE USED OR MANIPULATED. Give her a lot of credit for telling you this. It may be just what you needed to change your life for the better. (I told you before she did!!!_ GET STRONG, BUB, OR GET STEPPED ON FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

[Tony T]

Larry, I couldn't have said it better myself!!!

[artlover]

WOW. I agree that this girl is immature, flaky and has numerous serious issues that are probably too varied and too deep to even discuss here. However, to even hint that she is representative of ALL women (to some degree) is just insulting. I, too desire a strong man. But I think my definition may be a little bit different. To me a strong man is not afraid to show his emotions and be truthful with me. After all, isn't that the advice we all gave Help Me just yesterday? Advising a man or men to withhold their emotions only contributes to the canyon-like divide that already exists between the sexes. I'm not saying a man or a woman should be a sniveling, clingy, needy mess. But to believe that a man simply asking his girlfriend what's going on in their relationship is weak or to suggest as the original poster did that he was acting like an "insecure girl" by showing his distress at being dumped is ridiculous to me!

 

Just because one has a penis does that mean they cease to be human and have human emotions? Would it have been more palatable had he gotten drunk and slept with random women instead? Would that have made him more manly? I realize that I'm exagerrating here. But I'm just trying to show that there's some needless blaming going on here. This crazy girl has the problem, not this original poster. There are MANY women out there who would be thrilled to have a man express his emotions clearly and honestly. Whatever they are. No one likes neediness or clinginess, but to go to the opposite extreme will make future relationships for this poster impossible.

 

Note to original poster:

 

a. Your ex doesn't know HERSELF yet so she's incapable of understanding what a real man is or what real love is.

 

b. If your self esteem and sense of manhood is so fragile that a woman who is clearly unstable and immature can make you doubt yourself, you have a much bigger problem that this break up.

 

Forget about her, but I see no reason for you to become bitter and closed because of one person whose name you will have probably forgotten in 10 years!

[Paulie]

I don't think Tony's gonna respond to you...'cause he's done talking about my ex. I think I made him sick. Rightfully so. He's an awesome guy, though. Rarely can I get such a sense of character over a message board. But, Artlover, I would be curious to know what your feelings are on how I can get over the fact that this girl who I am still in love with (in a sick way) is having wild sex with some other guy. She was really prescious to me. Thanks...and Tony, before you start...I realize you're done with this topic, this is between me and artlover! (ha ha)

 

[Tony T]

I have re-read my original as well as subsequent posts I made on this topic and I have detected absolutely nowhere where I have even remotely implied that this girl is representative of all women.

 

I did say there are many women out there who are manipulative and users and, if you would like, I will take some time to assemble them for your benefit. Luckily, many of those will change and mature over time and become less selfish and self centered. But new ones will follow. I promise you that there are sufficient numbers of women who, if they detect a guy is a wimp or is nauseating lovesick over them, will stomp all over him. BUT NOT AT ANY POINT DID I SAY ALL OR EVEN IMPLY MOST WOMEN WERE THAT WAY!!!!!

 

Your definition of a strong man is a valid one. But my answer was directed at the poster and his particular lady, not the entire world. It actually was not meant to be a definition of a strong man...but what kind of a man this young girl is attracted to at this point in her life. To a young, immature, flakey lady, a strong man is a guy who will not give in to her so easily, who will not make her the focus of his entire existence and a man she can look up to who forms healthy boundaries...a man who can live without her. That's what this particular girl wants...and I would say a majority of young girls are looking for that because that's sort of what daddy was like.

 

Because you are not this kind and perhaps have never been, first God Bless You, and second, that is why you may have responded the way you did to my post.

 

Later in life, usually around the mid twenties, sometimes earlier, sometimes later, these ladies start realizing that they are not after a daddy replacement but someone for whom they can show love, admiration and respect for their uniqueness.

 

I stand very firmly on my advice to this man, and he has likewise reposted to tell me I was right on the money.

 

I love criticism if it's justified but I love women and I would never indict the entire female population. My mother was a lady herself and they come no finer. She is now deceased, therefore the "was."

 

Furthermore, I do not have the power to insult you or anyone else. You make the decision to be insulted. My wish is that those with differing opinions come behind me with follow-up posts and give their take own take on specific problems and issues without getting emotional about any one post.

 

I do pray you will read my post again carefully to assure yourself I did imply that this woman was representative of all women. If I did, please cut and paste it on a new post and I will profusely apologize and do one thousand push ups in front of my computer as an act of contrition for such a heinous sin.

[Paulie]

Tony...Some of the stuff you say scares me. How do you have such insight. You talk about some selfish girls' looking for a guy that can live without them being probably the result of their own fathers' acting in a similar fashion. My ex-lady's father pretty much never had a conversation with her for the first 13 years of her life, and now cheats on the mother with all kinds of tramps and whores. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I just think there was some validity to artlover's post, because although you didn't say it or imply it, I think it might have been helpful to state that there are plenty of women out there who would appreciate emotional openness. Also, Tony, this lady was by any standard, extremely attractive, and very superficial in this sense. Do you think there is a higher propensity for extremely ATTRACTIVE YOUNG girls to fall into the category of which you speak? It seems that way to me.

[Taressa]

Paulie,

 

There must be some heavy-duty loneliness in your life that is causing you to cling to her. My one suggestion would be to gather around your friends - - your TRUE friends who know you and will speak the truth to you.

 

Start rekindling the friendships that will help you return to the things and life you enjoyed before this woman. Concentrate on making today a good day. Do one thing today that you enjoy.

 

Stop torturing yourself with these false dreams; The sex she's having isn't wild, it's cheap. She's giving the most intimate part of herself 100% to someone else.... she's said bye-bye to you... stop this weak clinging.

 

The only way to get over her is to make the decision to give up on the false hopes, wishes, and dreams you're carrying. You're going berserk, my kind man. Gather your friends around you and follow other passions and pleasures.

 

Love won't work for you until you build a solid social life... desperate love is not love.

 

Best wishes for new strength today and tomorrow.

 

PS... read your post again (copied below)... what would you say to a friend who said this same sick thing to you?

I would be curious to know what your feelings are on how I can get over the fact that this girl who I am still in love with (in a sick way) is having wild sex with some other guy. She was really prescious to me

[Tony T]

You write: "I just think there was some validity to artlover's post, because although you didn't say it or imply it, I think it might have been helpful to state that there are plenty of women out there who would appreciate emotional openness."

 

If you will read my post to Artlover, I absolutely positively told her she was RIGHT in what she said. However, I was posting to you earlier...and this particular lady, your ex, who is having sex with somebody else and has given you all the details like the worm she is DOES NOT APPRECIATE EMOTIONAL OPENNESS. I was NOT talking about every lady in the world. Your ex doesn't even know what she appreciates!!! If our creator was a corporation, the U.S. Government would order a recall on her butt!!!

 

For the record and for the benefit of the world, again, I absolutely back Artlover and you in saying that there are lots of mature, sane, levelheaded ladies in the world who really do appreciate emotional openness.

 

You also wrote: "Also, Tony, this lady was by any standard, extremely attractive, and very superficial in this sense. Do you think there is a higher propensity for extremely ATTRACTIVE YOUNG girls to fall into the category of which you speak? It seems that way to me."

 

You are REALLY trying to get me in trouble aren't you. This is a trick question if I have ever heard one. However, my gut feeling is that SOME ladies who aren't so attractive are just as inclined to act the same as SOME very attractive women towards men who are weak and lovesick. A girl is a girl and women just like men who they can feel protected by, secure with, men who are sure of themselves, men who aren't pathetically slobbering all over their butts.

 

I have personally known many extremely attractive ladies who were as kind, caring, selfless, sweet, etc. as is possible. I think a lot of that has to do with upbrining, life experiences, etc.

 

You just can't generalize, which is what you were trying to get me to do so Artlover would crawl all over me again. Everybody is different. I think men who write off lesser attractive women are doing themselves a great inujustice because it is my own personal feeing that many (or some) lesser attractive women work harder to please their man, to be honest, sincere, thoughtful, etc.

 

Let's face it, a beautiful girl who is highly confident about herself who has no morals, ethics or principles has the capabilities of doing just about anything she wants to just about anyone she wants if she is so inclined and others allow her to do this...and that's what happned to you...and she is still doing it to you...and will continue doing it do you until you forget her.

 

Let me just leave you with this thought. You have total control over your life. YOU have the power to let any lady you meet fall into any category you allow her to. I hope you understand this.

[Help Me]

Ok, I go away into my own fantasy world for a short while and the name of this message board changes to the semantics shack.

[artlover]

As a matter of fact, they won't tell you this but many girls will test a man to

 

see just how much of their crap the guy will take. If you take stuff off of them, they will

 

manipulate you, get what they can from you, eat you up and spit you out in the sewer. You are

 

lucky if they say Bye Bye.

 

This girl has told you what most any girl will tell you if they have enough guts....THEY WANT

 

A STRONG MAN. Not so much strong physically but a MAN who is a MAN, who they can

 

look up to, A MAN WHO WILL TAKE CHARGE AND WHO CANNOT BE USED OR

 

MANIPULATED. Give her a lot of credit for telling you this. It may be just what you needed to

 

change your life for the better. (I told you before she did!!!_

 

************************************************************

 

Please don't misunderstand me Tony, I think you offer EXCELLENT advice on a consistent basis. It's probably your tone more than your actual words that I am responding to. Although your words sound a bit bitter. Men also push and test women. And men ALSO want a partner who is strong and can't be pushed around (at least the healthy ones). Also, I didn't say you insulted me, I said I found your words insulting. There is a difference. And yes, I'm quite aware that it was my choice to feel that way and also my choice to respond to your post.

 

Having said all that, I still hold firm that Paulie did nothing wrong in originally trying to get to the bottom of his problems in his relationship. If someone just dumps you whether you've closed your eyes to the warning signs or it comes out of the blue, I think it's only natural (male or female) to be very hurt and sad. I also think there's nothing wrong with expressing that. If someone chooses to see you as weak because of your legitimate feelings, they have serious fears and insecurities and ISSUES which is probably why they're capable of hurting another human being so viciously in the first place. In that case I don't think the answer is to pretend you're just as screwed up as that person is. Why should we live down to other people's levels in that way?

 

I know a lot of the differences between men and women are because of biology. But I also think we're socialized, men and women alike, to feel as little as possible and to express even less. But let's face it, men are socialized, for the most part to feel NOTHING PAINFUL and it's reinforced every day in our daily lives. THAT makes me sick.

 

To Paulie:

 

Just get on with your life. Try your best to forget her. She's shown you her true self and she's seriously done you a favor. You didn't lose anything. Besides, you can't lose what you never had in the first place. If you're in school, devote more time to your studies. Hang out with your friends. If you have a hobby you're passionate about, spend lots of time pursuing that. If you're working, throw yourself into that. Writing in a journal can be helpful. Write down all of the anger, sadness, etc. that you feel and then you can destroy it, if you want to, when you've filled it up. Write her a long angry letter and then DON'T send it. And then one day you will wake up and you'll feel better. Like magic. And for God sakes, don't deal with her on any level ever EVER again. And I definitely agree with Tony. If it gets to be too much. See a qualified counselor to help you heal. Good luck.

[Tony T]

Wow, this could go on forever. I'm getting dizzy. But, for the record, I see and understand your point.

[artlover]

After composing my letter I came back to the index to find 3 more messages. Whew. Bottom line is we ALL agree Paulie's ex is whack.