Am I done? Or do I still have a chance?

[phxsun]

Hey guys, new poster here

 

So I've been friends (sigh*) with this girl for a few years now, but I didn't see her in a compatible kind of way until about a year ago. We're in a close group but we weren't ever close in the "tell each other real personal stuff" kind of way either. We just hung out because our group is close and we did a lot of things together.

 

It wasn't until last year when she changed herself to become more girly (she used to dress a little bit like a tomboy, jeans nice top etc) and started wearing dresses more often did I finally notice her and she got the attention of other guys too. Honestly, I didn't notice her until I found out this guy liked her and she kinda liked him too which got me a little jealous. Took me about 6months to figure out if what I felt was real or not and decided it was.

 

Anyway, we'd used to go clubbing together (with the rest of my group) but we didn't ever really interact a whole lot (other than talk and drink), but it wasn't until a few months ago did she start holding my hand when she wanted to go to other areas of the club, like the bar and stuff. a few times, she tried to fix my hair when it was a little messed up. Last time we went clubbing she led me round the club with our hands interlocking at the fingers. A few times I've tried to sort of loosen up to let her go but she just tightened her grip and sometimes she would tighten her grip anyway.

 

Thing is, other signs point to her seeing me as a brother. On my birthday while having a shot, she goes "Happy Birthday Brother!" Maybe I'm in denial, but sometimes I feel like she's saying it not because there's no chemistry but because she's too scared to change the dynamics of our relationship because of what our friends would think. She's never been in a serious relationship, so I think she may also be too scared to get into one with me.

 

I'm not sure exactly what I should do. I've tried my hardest before to not think of her in this way, but I've accepted the fact that I like her and would risk our friendship to get her. I'm a very humble, modest and unselfish guy but for once I want to be selfish. With her. I've thought about it and for me, i think the best option is to break down our friendship (not to the ground obviously) and build it back up to one where she could see me as someone more compatible.

 

Thoughts? Maybe I'm just lying to myself. If anyone thinks I'm in total denial and can't see the forest around the tree and that I have no chance, please say so.

[tonyp56]

It might be that she does think of you as a brother or it could just simply be a deflection of how she feels. (other words, calling you brother could be a way for her to not show what she really feels.)

 

Best thing you need to do is go to her and TELL her how you feel. Regardless of the outcome, you can't truely be friends with her when you feel the way you do, unless you can NOT get jealous 100% of the time (no matter what she does)!!!

 

Tell her, let the chips fall where they may...

[phxsun]

I don't feel that telling her right now is the best option for me. She doesn't have a guy in her life that would force my hand so right now I think I should just be working on breaking out of the friends zone and make her see me as a suitor.

 

I just wasn't sure if I was too deep to do anything or not.

[NoMagicBullet]

How do you know she sees you as only a friend/brother and not as a suitor? Just her saying "Happy Birthday Brother!" doesn't necessarily mean that. It sounds like you're both pretty young, and from what you described, it also sounds like she's pretty inexperienced with men & relationships. It sounds like she's trying to change that (just started dressing more girly a year ago), and it could be that expressing interest in a man is still very awkward for her. [Actually, it can be awkward for anyone, male or female, no matter how old they are or how long they've dated, but I digress.]

 

I agree with tonyp56 -- tell her how you feel. Or if that seems like too much at this point, ask her out on date, some activity where it's just you & her without the rest of the crowd.

 

I'm not really sure why you think you need to break down the friendship, and I'm concerned about how you might go about that. If you are going to start acting differently without telling her how you feel, she'll just be confused, and depending on what you do and how you treat her, you could come off like a jerk. She might decide you're not worth it as either a friend or a potential boyfriend, so I don't think it's a good idea.

 

Just be direct with her, tell you how you feel, or at least ask her out on a date.

 

Why does there have to be another guy in the picture for you to do something about this? Given you didn't really notice her until another guy did, I kind of wonder what your motivation really is here, like you only want what you can't have. I would be pissed if a guy I liked only showed interest in me when other men did, then ignored me when I was available.

Edited March 2, 2011 by NoMagicBullet

[spiderowl]

It sounds to me like she is testing out what a relationship with a guy could be like with you. She obviously feels very comfortable and safe with you. She wants you there and close - she's holding your hand and pretty much insisting on it. I think you are borderline very good friend/possible boyfriend here. I don't think she'd object if you tried to take it further; in fact, displays of manliness might be your best move here. I wouldn't necessary recommend leaping on her, but showing her in little ways that you are not just a good friend but a passionate man would change her perception of you and give you the feedback you need.

 

I suppose what I'm thinking of are little ways of taking the lead. At the moment, she is leading you and you are happily going along with it. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want her to view you as a potential sexual partner too, then you need to be a bit more confident. If she pulls your hand, you could gently but firmly lead her where you'd like to go. When you help her up somewhere, put your arm round her firmly and decisively, but let it go shortly afterwards. Show her you are making little moves but are confident and restrained so that neither she nor your passions have control of the situation. A guy in control of himself but relaxed is very attractive.

 

Lead the way a little, suggest places to go and if she doesn't want to, go yourself. You won't need to be unpleasant to her about it, just seem keen on going wherever it is and not put off by her lack of company. The aim is to show yourself to be a confident, independent guy who enjoys time with her and isn't panicked if she chooses not to join in. She needs to feel free to join you if she wants but to also get the message than underneath there is a strong and passionate guy, not the friend she can pull around when she wants to.

[Eddie Edirol]

You dont have to tell her how you feel, just treat her like a woman that you would be dating .Start flirting with her, stay confident, and eventually go in for the kiss. If she backs off, then you know what the deal is. For now, Turn up the heat.

[phxsun]

How do you know she sees you as only a friend/brother and not as a suitor? Just her saying "Happy Birthday Brother!" doesn't necessarily mean that. It sounds like you're both pretty young, and from what you described, it also sounds like she's pretty inexperienced with men & relationships. It sounds like she's trying to change that (just started dressing more girly a year ago), and it could be that expressing interest in a man is still very awkward for her. [Actually, it can be awkward for anyone, male or female, no matter how old they are or how long they've dated, but I digress.]

 

I agree with tonyp56 -- tell her how you feel. Or if that seems like too much at this point, ask her out on date, some activity where it's just you & her without the rest of the crowd.

 

I'm not really sure why you think you need to break down the friendship, and I'm concerned about how you might go about that. If you are going to start acting differently without telling her how you feel, she'll just be confused, and depending on what you do and how you treat her, you could come off like a jerk. She might decide you're not worth it as either a friend or a potential boyfriend, so I don't think it's a good idea.

 

Just be direct with her, tell you how you feel, or at least ask her out on a date.

 

 

We're both in our early 20's but she had a bit of a wayward childhood so she sort of had to fend for herself early on and rely on herself so I do suspect giving in would be something new to her. She is inexperienced with men and relationships (she's never really had a serious one) and considering her past, you may be right about her being awkward showing affection/interest in a man.

 

I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to breaking out of the friends zone (which I assume I'm in) so I thought breaking down foundations of our friendship and building it back up to the point where I can be a suitor would be the way to go. Maybe it is the wrong way to go, but considering my inexperience in this area, I was probably right to ask on this forum before I went ahead.

 

Why does there have to be another guy in the picture for you to do something about this? Given you didn't really notice her until another guy did, I kind of wonder what your motivation really is here, like you only want what you can't have. I would be pissed if a guy I liked only showed interest in me when other men did, then ignored me when I was available.

I feel like without a guy in her life (another guy), I don't have that pressure that would force me to make a (maybe the wrong move) move that would maybe push her away. I can plan out my strategy carefully and carry it out in a planned fashion.

 

Also, it did take me a good few months to realize if what I felt for her wasn't just "like you only want what you can't have." It's definitely the trigger that got me interested, but when it comes to developing attraction for a friend, anything can be a trigger, right?

[phxsun]

It sounds to me like she is testing out what a relationship with a guy could be like with you. She obviously feels very comfortable and safe with you. She wants you there and close - she's holding your hand and pretty much insisting on it. I think you are borderline very good friend/possible boyfriend here. I don't think she'd object if you tried to take it further; in fact, displays of manliness might be your best move here. I wouldn't necessary recommend leaping on her, but showing her in little ways that you are not just a good friend but a passionate man would change her perception of you and give you the feedback you need.

 

I suppose what I'm thinking of are little ways of taking the lead. At the moment, she is leading you and you are happily going along with it. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want her to view you as a potential sexual partner too, then you need to be a bit more confident. If she pulls your hand, you could gently but firmly lead her where you'd like to go. When you help her up somewhere, put your arm round her firmly and decisively, but let it go shortly afterwards. Show her you are making little moves but are confident and restrained so that neither she nor your passions have control of the situation. A guy in control of himself but relaxed is very attractive.

 

Lead the way a little, suggest places to go and if she doesn't want to, go yourself. You won't need to be unpleasant to her about it, just seem keen on going wherever it is and not put off by her lack of company. The aim is to show yourself to be a confident, independent guy who enjoys time with her and isn't panicked if she chooses not to join in. She needs to feel free to join you if she wants but to also get the message than underneath there is a strong and passionate guy, not the friend she can pull around when she wants to.

 

The gap between a good friend and suitor may seem small but the obstacle between them is huge. It's the difference between being a viable suitor and being in the friends zone. Once you're in the friends zone, it's very difficult to come out of it. I can't be sure exactly where I'm at, but to be safe, I assume I'm in the friends zone already.

 

You give some good advice on what I should do. I will definitely take aboard some of the things I should do to take the lead and become more for a suitor.

[phxsun]

Also, I should emphasize how much of an influence my small group of friends has on the friendship. I probably didn't emphasize it enough as it is one of the reasons I'm still where I am now.

 

The group which originally had 8 friends is now down to 6 as two moved overseas. It's a smaller group with another friend who sort of has his own group of friends now, so it's really 5 including me. Anyway, very early on in the friendship with this group (3-4years ago), one of my good mates found out that the girl had a thing for him and he sort of had a thing for her too. He talked to me about it and at the time, I didn't think much of her and told him that he should think of what would happen to the group if they started dating and had a falling out after a breakup. He took my words and didn't proceed any further. It wasn't until about a month ago when I finally talked to one of the group members (the sister of the girl's best friend), did I find out that he still has a thing for her but she has no interest in him whatsoever now because she considers him too sensitive. It came as quite a shock to me because I didn't think he even thought about her, let alone still thinking about her since then.

 

I suppose he's one of the reasons I have yet to make any real moves. I told him what I thought years back and that would have changed everything. If the past me gave the same advice to the present me now, I would probably not listen. But that would mean I would have contradicted myself and went back on my own words.

 

I just feel it's a pretty delicate situation right now. Good thing is that, the only person in the world who really knows our situation is the sister, who has since moved overseas. So no one in our group knows. I thought about telling the best friend about it since another close friend of mine told me that telling the best friend would be the way to go, but assuming they would talk to each other about everything, even if I tell them not to, it didn't seem like the smart thing to do just yet.

 

Considering my current situation with the group of friends and my mate, what would your advice be now? =/

[indija]

well, i'm curious as to how it came about that you started seeing her differently...did you like her when you first met her, or did it come on gradually as you got to know her, or did you suddenly have an opportunity to see her in a different light? i'm in a (painfully) similar situation, except i'm the guy and he's the girl (you know what i mean). i know that one reason i haven't pursued it is the very real fear of losing the friendship, which is extraordinary. how do you feel when you're around this girl? do you feel appreciated, accepted, understood, loved? do the others in the group notice/presume anything special or different about you two? has anyone ever made remarks or suggestions about you two hooking up? man, i don't know what to think either!

[phxsun]

well, i'm curious as to how it came about that you started seeing her differently...did you like her when you first met her, or did it come on gradually as you got to know her, or did you suddenly have an opportunity to see her in a different light? i'm in a (painfully) similar situation, except i'm the guy and he's the girl (you know what i mean). i know that one reason i haven't pursued it is the very real fear of losing the friendship, which is extraordinary. how do you feel when you're around this girl? do you feel appreciated, accepted, understood, loved? do the others in the group notice/presume anything special or different about you two? has anyone ever made remarks or suggestions about you two hooking up? man, i don't know what to think either!

 

Don't worry mate, I understand. The feelings are the same no matter which team you play for .

 

She (call her J) started dressing more girly, I suppose. When we first met, she was quite different to who she is now. She used to not like dresses at all and it was a pretty rare sight to see her in a dress so when she started wearing dresses whenever we go out, it sort of changed her whole look. I guess that's how I started noticing her. At the same time, other guys started noticing her as well and I really started feeling for her when I felt jealous she and another guy started seeing each other.

 

I'd be lying if I said there is a clear bond between us because it isn't all that clear. I feel like I've tried to push her away this whole time because I was too scared of my own feelings for her. I do think there is chemistry between us but I feel there's something separating us. I think it may be her shyness and not knowing what to do considering the dynamics of the group as I mentioned and also her inexperience with showing affection. Or it could just be me overthinking everything and letting the opportunities get away. When I told the best friend's sister (who is also in the group, but has now moved overseas), she was quite shocked since she had no idea. I'm assuming the best friend and J, has some idea/feeling that I may have a thing for her, but because of the nature of the group and my friendship with her, they probably don't think it's likely. No one has made any remarks, but that's because I try pretty hard to keep things looking very friendly, which is why I'm assuming I'm in the friends zone.

[indija]

Wow, I'm reading this and it sounds/feels so familiar...so I guess that makes us both either perfectly normal or equally lame, lol. In any case, I can see you're torn, and it is wrenching because it seems like you don't want to lose what you DO have, but it can be painful, especially if you're having to see her around other guys or whatnot. Damn, and the sister had no idea??? That's why I was asking, to see maybe how you guys appear to other people. I mean, does anyone else SEE what you guys are like together? Or, do they maybe see something you (or she) don't see? It is so difficult to know what, if anything, to do. Lol, so how bad do you want this thing? And what, exactly, do you think you're wanting from this? Like are you just massively hot for her all of a sudden, or do you think, gulp, this could actually be something...

[phxsun]

Wow, I'm reading this and it sounds/feels so familiar...so I guess that makes us both either perfectly normal or equally lame, lol. In any case, I can see you're torn, and it is wrenching because it seems like you don't want to lose what you DO have, but it can be painful, especially if you're having to see her around other guys or whatnot. Damn, and the sister had no idea??? That's why I was asking, to see maybe how you guys appear to other people. I mean, does anyone else SEE what you guys are like together? Or, do they maybe see something you (or she) don't see? It is so difficult to know what, if anything, to do. Lol, so how bad do you want this thing? And what, exactly, do you think you're wanting from this? Like are you just massively hot for her all of a sudden, or do you think, gulp, this could actually be something...

 

I'm very good at keeping things low key and keeping my emotions to myself. I don't raise many suspicious so there's nothing really to suspect.

 

I starting noticing her about a year ago and took about 6months to realise that this isn't just something stupid. I'm not just hot for her. What do I want? I want her for myself. I want to be with her. I'm at the point where I'm even considering risking our friendship to make it a relationship. Maybe I'm blind but that's how I've been feeling for a good 3-4 months now.

[indija]

wow, now it's my turn to sigh (would it be rude of me to ask you to read my lame post?)...it sounds like if you're feeling that strongly about it, you should say/do something or else you're consigning yourself to a really painful situation. but, yeah, if what you're feeling is that strong/intense/real, you'd almost be foolish to not risk everything for the chance at a real relationship...damn it...sigh...

[phxsun]

Would be rude of my not to listen after you gave me advice. Assuming your story is similar to mine, I'm sure no one would object.

[indija]

lol, awesome, thanks...i'm sure you can find it easily (liking to platonic to liking)...in the meantime, i've got to ask, how often do you see her/talk to her/interact with her? how does the interaction take place? do you know if she IS seeing other guys or whatever? i mean, she may be on the same page as you and you don't know it, or she may have a whole other life you're not aware of. what did the sister say after all that?

[phxsun]

I normally see her once a week since my group likes to plan for stuff every week, even if not everyone can make it. I used to talk to her online almost every day and message her every other day but the frequency has dropped off because I wanted to see if she would start a conversation with me. To my dismay, she rarely ever starts a conversation (online) with me and it's always me who has to initiate it. Maybe that's the wrong thing to do? I just didn't want to do anything that could push me further into the friends zone.

 

But yeah, we see each other about once a week but never alone because it'll be too weird for the both of us since we both have to consider the group. I know right now she isn't seeing any guys. She messages this guy but he's in another state and she's told me about how he's pissed her off before and would take a lot for him to get back in her good books (as in, see him as a possibility). I'm quite positive she doesn't have anyone else who's close to being a suitor. It's also been a long time since I've seen her with another guy in the clubs.

 

The sister of the best friend said that J sees me as a brother. I know it sounds bad, and it hurt me to hear it too, but considering J isn't really experienced at showing affection (she still has many boyish mannerisms from her early days) and she's probably would feel a little awkward showing it, it doesn't surprise me that the sister of the best friend got the impression that J sees me as a brother. Like I said before, I may be seeing stuff that isn't there, but something tells me that she is hiding behind the "brother" tag because it's too awkward within the group for her to act differently. It's pretty awkward for me too act differently to her as well because of the group. Anyhow I don't have any evidence of this, but it's just a feeling.

 

I don't know what you make of my situation but I think to be safe, I'm just going to assume she sees me as a brother and my plan would be to stop her from seeing me as such. So I suppose, if you have nothing more to add and you do think that I'm in her friends zone (she truly sees me as a brother), then how should I proceed to making her see me as more than just a good friend and a potential suitor?

Edited March 5, 2011 by phxsun

[Dazdnconfuzed]

If you are 100% certain she sees you as a brother but you are really into her that much, ask her what she thinks about incest... LOL

 

In all seriousness, sometimes to lose what you have - The Friendship and Group thing - which is the same advice you gave a few years back to another guy in the group might not be worth what you might have a slim chance of getting.

 

I have a similar situation where I was completely repulsed by a female actually and then she started dressing and talking differently and got to know her and now I am extremely hot for her, problem is the only way I knew how to not act on it is to push her away so hard that she will not utter a word to me... Either way I lost both friendship and potential and boy was she into me at the time as my friend tells me.

 

Either enjoy what you have and bottle up your emotions or go for the glory and hope you have the Ace card.

[NoMagicBullet]

Reading through the additional posts, I think I better understand your concern about being in her friendzone, not to mention the Group Friendzone you are both in. Group Friendzone may be the worst.

 

Based on what the sister of the best friend said about J seeing you as a brother, now I'm kind of leaning toward J actually seeing you as a brother. Of course, she could be wrong about J's view of you. Strange as it sounds, sometimes girls don't talk about their crushes with friends, and with the complex group dynamics, she could be keeping her feelings to herself, if she has feelings for you.

 

I don't think there's a best way to proceed here -- it pretty much comes down to letting things remain as they are or making some kind of move and potentially losing it all. Whatever you decide, I wish you luck and hope it turns out for the best.

[phxsun]

Reading through the additional posts, I think I better understand your concern about being in her friendzone, not to mention the Group Friendzone you are both in. Group Friendzone may be the worst.

 

Based on what the sister of the best friend said about J seeing you as a brother, now I'm kind of leaning toward J actually seeing you as a brother. Of course, she could be wrong about J's view of you. Strange as it sounds, sometimes girls don't talk about their crushes with friends, and with the complex group dynamics, she could be keeping her feelings to herself, if she has feelings for you.

 

I don't think there's a best way to proceed here -- it pretty much comes down to letting things remain as they are or making some kind of move and potentially losing it all. Whatever you decide, I wish you luck and hope it turns out for the best.

 

It's a concern which I've come to accept and I plan to somehow escape from it. Pretty much I plan to proceed as though she has no feelings for me and she sees me as a brother. I'm not as worried about what the rest of the group thinks but rather the other guy in the group that still has a thing for J.

 

The sister of the best friend isn't as close as J is to the best friend (obviously) but the best friend and her sister are very close and they tell each other a lot. Likewise, J and the best friend are very close as well (they both have tattoos of the first letter of each others names on their wrist). So in a way I'm getting decent information from the sister. But what she said about J seeing me as a brother is her opinion. I don't believe they (whether it be J and the best friend or J and the sister) have actually had discussions about me. I think it's 50/50 about J telling the best friend about me if she does have feelings for me (if she does). They are very close but considering how shocking it was for me to tell the best friend's sister, it could be the same if J told her best friend.

[indija]

So, at least you're getting what seems like some inside information...but how useful is it, right, lol? The funny thing is, people have suggested to try the "oh, we're drunk, oopsie" thing, but I'm getting the feeling this is more than that to you. You seem to really be taking this seriously, which is why it's so hard for you to know how or whether to move. You seem to be in a good position to let it ride for a while and see what happens, and it's good that she doesn't seem to have any other major guy action going, hopefully giving you a chance to become someone more significant in her life. Lol, maybe YOU should try changing things up a bit, dressing up more, acting more like a "guy" instead of a brother? Would you be able to maybe ask her if she wants to do something with just you and not the group night out? Something harmless, perhaps, like some tickets to a show you know she'd like, or something that would involve just you two. Like get her used to the idea of hanging out with you on your own and take it slowly and easily from there. Be real courtly, like focusing on her and stuff, but not exactly committing yourself to it being like a "date" date. That way, if she DOES only see you as a brother, you're still having a good time, but giving yourself the opportunity to be seen on your own merits. Hell, I don't know...lol, at least your group isn't trying to shove you guys down each other's throats, making an awkward situation even worse. So, lemme ask you, would you WANT her to be communicating with you, instead of you always having to do the initiating? Cuz in my experience, that's only backfired for me...if she's afraid of pushing YOU away, maybe that's why she hasn't initiated with you, especially if she's still all boyish and stuff. I've GOT it! Invite her to do something, and when you have an awesome time, get matching tattoos to commemorate it! (Damn, how come HE gets a tattoo...) Do you know at all what she does, who she hangs out with when she's not with you/the group?

[phxsun]

So, at least you're getting what seems like some inside information...but how useful is it, right, lol? The funny thing is, people have suggested to try the "oh, we're drunk, oopsie" thing, but I'm getting the feeling this is more than that to you. You seem to really be taking this seriously, which is why it's so hard for you to know how or whether to move. You seem to be in a good position to let it ride for a while and see what happens, and it's good that she doesn't seem to have any other major guy action going, hopefully giving you a chance to become someone more significant in her life. Lol, maybe YOU should try changing things up a bit, dressing up more, acting more like a "guy" instead of a brother? Would you be able to maybe ask her if she wants to do something with just you and not the group night out? Something harmless, perhaps, like some tickets to a show you know she'd like, or something that would involve just you two. Like get her used to the idea of hanging out with you on your own and take it slowly and easily from there. Be real courtly, like focusing on her and stuff, but not exactly committing yourself to it being like a "date" date. That way, if she DOES only see you as a brother, you're still having a good time, but giving yourself the opportunity to be seen on your own merits. Hell, I don't know...lol, at least your group isn't trying to shove you guys down each other's throats, making an awkward situation even worse. So, lemme ask you, would you WANT her to be communicating with you, instead of you always having to do the initiating? Cuz in my experience, that's only backfired for me...if she's afraid of pushing YOU away, maybe that's why she hasn't initiated with you, especially if she's still all boyish and stuff. I've GOT it! Invite her to do something, and when you have an awesome time, get matching tattoos to commemorate it! (Damn, how come HE gets a tattoo...) Do you know at all what she does, who she hangs out with when she's not with you/the group?

 

I've actually (and stupidly) thought about the "oops I was drunk" thing but since I'm still not at least 50% sure she feels the same way, I just think it's too risky. I'd rather not resort to that either. Yeah, I suppose I'm in a decent position to just sit back and see what's up but I'm going to try and turn it up whenever we meet in person. Gotta start leading. I guess, other than messaging, I haven't REALLY given her the impression (in person) that I'm interested so I probably should start to change that.

 

I've changed a fair bit since a year ago. I dress a lot better, lost about 10kgs/22lbs (down to 11.8% body fat now woo....) from just working out and watching my diet and put on a lot of lean muscle. The best friend's sister said I'm changing into someone that's more her type from just working out and looking better. So I have that going for me I guess? But yeah, I've changed a fair bit since I've lost weight, I can wear clothes I couldn't wear before (size wise).

 

I've asked her to dinner twice, on the premise that I would be in the city (where she works) anyway for something else so we could meet up after but one time she was busy because she had to held her dad carry stuff home (which she did) and the other time she said yes but she invited the best friend as well since she would be in the city at the time too. I think I have a lot more things to work on before I try again.

 

I'd like her to initiate sometimes. I understand I'm the guy, but a friendship (not even talking about r'ship right now) should be a two way thing. Can't just be me all the time, you know what I mean? But yeah, I think taking a backseat and seeing what she'll do has backfired on me too. Perhaps my expectations wasn't right. I don't know why she doesn't initiate, maybe she's waiting for me to do so since it was always me doing it. But since taking a backseat to it all, she really hasn't shown the same willingness to start a conversation (this is all online and over text btw, in person we're fine). Not sure what the deal there is . I know it's a bit silent when we don't see each other, so how big of a factor do you think this is in the grand scheme of things?.

 

Anyway, what would you do in your situation if there's another party who likes the guy you like, but this 3rd party is also a good friend of yours? Is it bros before hoes, or the winner takes all the glory?

[indija]

In MY situation? Well, I have wondered what I would do if/when some other chick were to appear on the scene (besides die a little inside, lol). I mean, I’m sure that we’ve both c***blocked each other without meaning to, just by appearing to be “together,” but to actually know one of my friends likes him? I don’t think I’d be able to be as cool about it as I’ve been in the past with other friends or even exes. If you go the bros before hos route, tho, you risk losing both the girl AND the friendship and then where are you (especially with the group)?

 

Funny thing is, you know what your friend is like as a friend, and you know what J is like as a friend, but do you know what J is/would be like as a “girl?” Another thing I’m wondering is, how exactly do you know your bro is keen on J? Did he mention it, what did he say? Cuz, like, if he came out and said “wow, I’m keen on this girl,” and you haven’t stated your interest, then I’m with bro. If he’s been kind of just hovering around on the verge (like you/us, lol), then I’d say go with ho and take whatever glory there is to take (altho it might have the same fallout, but at least your conscience would be sort of clear).

 

More questions: does J get like calls or texts from other guys while you’re hanging out? What evidence of an outside life do you have on her? Do or would you know if she’s actually gone out with your friend on their own? Does HE know you’re keen on J? Lol, I’m almost tired of thinking of all of this stuff and wish that we could all just BE, but it’s so hard because we’re dealing with people who have their own separate feelings and needs and stuff.

 

To get back to the hanging out with her on your own deal, maybe you could make it like a getaway, like when you invite her, put it in terms of something for just the two of you, ooh, like maybe you guys are gonna pull a prank on the group so it HAS to be just you two going, so then you have something that you’re in on together! Ok, I know that’s silly, but something fun like that would be awesome. I know that’s one thing that I enjoy, that feeling of being in on some private joke.

 

That having been said, I’m still thinking about which way should you go, bros/hos...I know that when we hang out with the group, my friend and I each flirt with whomever and hang out and stuff, but there’s always this sort of unspoken agreement that we don’t, like, rub it in each other’s faces. Sometimes when I’m talking to some guy, he’ll walk up and start chatting too (until the guy goes away, it seems--sometimes I feel a little c***blocked), but I try to leave him to his thing, y’know? Or, if I talk to whatever chick he’s flirting with, I do it after, so she can see it’s all good, I’m ok with her talking to him. I guess, honestly, I would go bro before ho, except in this case, since he’s so special to me, the bro would be him, and anyone else would be relegated to ho, so I guess I’d want him to be happy with whoever makes him happy. Yuck. Man, the idea of your friend being keen on J too absolutely sucks. But, on the up side, then maybe you’d REALLY get inside information for future, because of course they’d never work out and they’d be totally wrong together, lol!

[phxsun]

In MY situation? Well, I have wondered what I would do if/when some other chick were to appear on the scene (besides die a little inside, lol). I mean, I’m sure that we’ve both c***blocked each other without meaning to, just by appearing to be “together,” but to actually know one of my friends likes him? I don’t think I’d be able to be as cool about it as I’ve been in the past with other friends or even exes. If you go the bros before hos route, tho, you risk losing both the girl AND the friendship and then where are you (especially with the group)?

 

Funny thing is, you know what your friend is like as a friend, and you know what J is like as a friend, but do you know what J is/would be like as a “girl?” Another thing I’m wondering is, how exactly do you know your bro is keen on J? Did he mention it, what did he say? Cuz, like, if he came out and said “wow, I’m keen on this girl,” and you haven’t stated your interest, then I’m with bro. If he’s been kind of just hovering around on the verge (like you/us, lol), then I’d say go with ho and take whatever glory there is to take (altho it might have the same fallout, but at least your conscience would be sort of clear).

Like I've mentioned, J is quite inexperienced when it comes to relationship, so I can't be totally certain what I'm getting if she becomes my girl. I just know that I want more than what we have now. I want to take this holding hands business out of the club and take it outside.

 

I know my bro is still keen on J because the best friend's sister (I'll call her R), told me he got really drunk one day (probably around Xmas time last year) at a party and she was upstairs looking for something in her purse and he came up and blurted out that he still liked her and he stopped going clubbing with us (and her) because he can't hack being around her. He also told another close friend of his, who, for some reason, told J about it, so she knows he still likes her. J told the best friend and the best friend told her sister and that's how I know. R told me she has no interest in him.

 

I don't think he wants to make a move to be honest. I think he's actually trying hard to get over her. Few weeks ago we were just chilling and he just randomly said, "man I need a GF." I'm assuming he's jus trying to get over J. So the only obstacle involving him is the fact that he told he they had a thing for each other way back when and I advised him against getting together because of the group (this was years back, when we all just started becoming good friends).

 

So I only really wanna make a bold (meaning the group would know) move if I know she has feelings for me too, otherwise it could hurt the dynamics of the group with two guys liking J and J not liking either lol.

 

More questions: does J get like calls or texts from other guys while you’re hanging out? What evidence of an outside life do you have on her? Do or would you know if she’s actually gone out with your friend on their own? Does HE know you’re keen on J? Lol, I’m almost tired of thinking of all of this stuff and wish that we could all just BE, but it’s so hard because we’re dealing with people who have their own separate feelings and needs and stuff.

 

She does get texts (no calls that I know of) from this one guy who she used to like. I joke with her saying stuff like, "so how's your boy (the guy who texts her) ???" But she's just like "what boy???" and when I specify she told me he's a real sulk and a dick etc. I asked her if she still liked him and she's like nope. But I kept pushing saying, "well if he wasn't as much of a dick now would you still like him?" But she just said, "he's gotta do A LOT to get back into my good books." So I don't see him as a big threat now, but he's probably the only real threat since they seem to text each other a fair bit more than we text each other (but we don't text much anyway). Good thing is, he's in another state so he doesn't get the face time I do. But either way, I'll have keep my eye on that.

 

Anyway, I have no evidence she doesn't go out and see my bro, but she is literally, always with the best friend. When J used to see this other guy in the city, the best friend would go with her but they would do their own thing. So I pretty much have a pretty good idea of where she is most of the time. Since my mate has no idea I have a thing for J, he would tell me if anything small like him and her hanging out and stuff. But none of that has taken place. I'm about 99% sure they aren't seeing each other behind our backs.

 

To get back to the hanging out with her on your own deal, maybe you could make it like a getaway, like when you invite her, put it in terms of something for just the two of you, ooh, like maybe you guys are gonna pull a prank on the group so it HAS to be just you two going, so then you have something that you’re in on together! Ok, I know that’s silly, but something fun like that would be awesome. I know that’s one thing that I enjoy, that feeling of being in on some private joke.

 

That having been said, I’m still thinking about which way should you go, bros/hos...I know that when we hang out with the group, my friend and I each flirt with whomever and hang out and stuff, but there’s always this sort of unspoken agreement that we don’t, like, rub it in each other’s faces. Sometimes when I’m talking to some guy, he’ll walk up and start chatting too (until the guy goes away, it seems--sometimes I feel a little c***blocked), but I try to leave him to his thing, y’know? Or, if I talk to whatever chick he’s flirting with, I do it after, so she can see it’s all good, I’m ok with her talking to him. I guess, honestly, I would go bro before ho, except in this case, since he’s so special to me, the bro would be him, and anyone else would be relegated to ho, so I guess I’d want him to be happy with whoever makes him happy. Yuck. Man, the idea of your friend being keen on J too absolutely sucks. But, on the up side, then maybe you’d REALLY get inside information for future, because of course they’d never work out and they’d be totally wrong together, lol!

 

I got a lot of planning and work ahead of me. Since there's no legit threats right now, I can sort of take my time with her. First thing I gotta do is to break out of friends zone. Gotta let her see me for me and not me as some brother (eff that makes me feel sick). I'll keep trying to get some 1 on 1 time with her but if I can't I'll just have to dial up my mojo whenever I see her then. She's not going to be guyless forever, so I can't let any more opportunities go by. I think I'm just going to work on this first before worrying about the bro. If she and I do have something together, love will find a way right?

[indija]

Omg, you sound so exactly like me, it’s not even funny...no wonder I feel like there’s no way my “J” can see me as a girl if I think so much like a guy...well, it’s kinda sad for your bro that J obviously doesn’t like him, but great for you, except for the fact that she texts more with him? Are they better friends, or do you think maybe their texts are more utilitarian and yours are more meaningful?

 

Anyway, I agree about the taking time and just relaxing with it. That’s what I’m gonna do, just sort of let it be. The frantic wondering/worrying is getting old, and I don’t think that’s what love should feel like. These loves of ours are so very quiet in their own way, they probably just need to be left alone and not picked at so they can develop properly. You are definitely right, love WILL find a way. Let’s just let it wash over us and enjoy it and let whatever happens happen (lol, at least until the next time we feel like if we can’t BE with them we’re gonna burst!). But, yeah, be the guy that you are, and if she sees it, great—if she doesn’t, then do you really want her after all?

 

In the end, and this is what I have been telling myself, if it doesn’t work out at all, then at least you have a better idea of what YOU are looking for. Like, “I want someone like her, but for me.” Cuz if these people are not for us, they’re close enough that maybe when we DO meet the ones for us, we’ll be better able to recognize them! Sigh.