What is it with this woman? Bi-polar maybe?

[don diego 78]

My ex and I have been separated for about a year and a half now. She moved out on me and I had discovered she was speaking with an ex right before she did that. We attempted reconciliation but she backed out of couples counseling. I was caught trying to look through her phone records after she refused to show me them and she kicked me out of her place. She has always promised me nothing physical ever happened with said ex. Flash forward a year and the other day she called me up tearfully saying she missed our family. Mind you that this was immediately after me going the "silent treatment" route after about a year of me pursuing her and constantly being denied. Basically after a month of silence from me she broke down and said the usual textbook stuff..."I didn't realize what I had till it was gone." blah blah blah.

It's funny because she really had me considering again...UNTIL. Today I was on a internet forum that we both used to be on and I hadn't been on in ages. Someone had posted an interesting article about how it's the little things in love relationships that we remember. I began getting nostalgic, thinking of her of course...lo and behold I come across her response which chimed in agreement and said something to the effect of "oh yeah, the standout moments are not getting flowers at work (something i used to do too) but being carried gently and lovingly to bed when you fall asleep on the couch and waking up tucked in." guess what? she wasn't talking about me, and guess what? she was writing this literally 4 days before calling me crying. if i can be reading something like that and thinking of her and she can be reading it and thinking of someone else...I dunno...the way I see it this has no fixing. i love my son and wish it could be but...love has to be 50/50. any thoughts?

[You Go Girl]

No, she's not bipolar. Selfish, yes.

 

You're plan B. Plan A fell through.

 

I know you don't want a woman who isn't truly in love with you and you alone.

That type of love isn't good enough for most people--if not all (except those crazy polyamorous types).

 

Don't reconcile unless she is in love with you, and you alone. At this point, that's not the case, sorry!

Wait months. String her along if necessary to find out. If she's truly in love with you, she won't be seeking to replace you during that time.

 

I don't advocate stringing people along--but her heart's in more than one place--and she foolishly published it on a website.

Or...bail. You don't have to wait if you don't want to!

[cowgirltuff]

IMO, I'd let her go.

It sounds like she is confused as to what she really wants. I think this is a common problem when ending a long term relationship (especially when there are children involved).

She wants out, but yet still wants what you had to offer her, but she wants so and so, but yet she doesn't...lol bi-polar maybe! I think she's being selfish and is playing you.

 

If you are not enough for her to make up her mind for, then don't let her keep playing these games with you and your feelings. Close the door for good. Loving someone shouldn't be this dang hard nor confusing!

[don diego 78]

I should mention the last year has been an up and down roller coaster which is why I had to finally go as no contact as possible. I have to deal with her daily because of our son. It was because of him i decided to close the door for good. There was a period around Christmas when she was into coming over to my place and spending the night with our son in bed with us, playing house (no sex though). It was messing both me and my son up and I was seeing no sign of a commitment from her. She would get us used to her staying over and then stop all of a sudden etc. It hurt too much. yeah, games galore.

Edited March 1, 2011 by don diego 78

[cowgirltuff]

Closing the door the first time was very wise of you, especially when it isn't only messing with you but your son as well!

Keep the door closed so both you and your son can heal and move past this. She obviously doesn't care who she hurts!

 

Good luck to you both!

[debtman]

Sounds like you're better off. I know my stbx has said several things to me since she told me our M was over last Oct. (and she turned her EA into a PA) about reconciling or working things out and it took a lot of effort to remind myself that I'm finally dealing with this, moving past the pain and loss she caused and getting on a solid ground as far as the kids are concerned.

 

I miss not seeing them everyday, but, the time I do spend with them, is just us, and it's better quality time and I appreciate it more.

 

If I had decided to take her up on her offer, I'm sure we would have slipped right back to where we were since she wasn't interested in MC or IC and I would never be able to trust her again to meet new people or make friends (which I always encouraged her to do). She's too stubborn to admit that she made any mistakes, or that she has any fault in the state of the relationship, so she will never learn to address the communication problems we had, and she will end up repeating them again with OM, it's just a matter of time.

 

I plan to, eventually, find a relationship that I can focus on and be more attentive to. Something I learned from this relationship and am taking forward with me to the next one.

 

Not that I'm looking for anything right now. Now, I'm just focusing on my kids, paying bills (now including child support) and making it through the last year of my debt plan so that, next year, I'll be able to let one more stress go and start enjoying free time again.

 

You're better off...she's looking for something better and hoping to string you along as a back-up. She'll eventually find someone who will put her up on a pedestal and tell her how great she is...for a while. Then the honeymoon phase will wear off and she'll be right back where she started.

 

Focus on yourself, your son and staying as LC as possible.

 

Good luck and keep posting!

[don diego 78]

Thanks for sharing debtman. Your ex sounds eerily similar to mine.

 

I hope I have not committed a loveshack forums no-no but I have this post in a nother section as well hoping to broaden my perspective as much as possible. I just added these developments from today and would be curious to see what people in here thought.

 

I don't doubt she is confused. It's why I had to draw the line...She basically spent the months of December and January staying over at my place in bed with me and my son, showering over here, eating with us...but she didn't really cross any physical boundaries. Basically playing house but not committing.

 

I don't think there's anyone in the picture because she has repeatedly said to me that she is not good for me right now, or anyone. It's like she's accepted there's something about her but she only talks of finding a therapist and never really does.

 

Today I emailed her and basically told her "Go to therapy so this BS can end and told her the same things she told me on the phone when she called crying: I miss our family too, Do I have to beg?, What do I have to say, I'm hearbroken...but with the added demand for HER to make a decision. I suppose I called her bluff basically, and her response was:

I'm sad because I have no faith because I’m scared because I’m happy because I feel guilty for that because Im scared to put (our son) through anything again. I’m sorry I cant have this conversation and I’m sorry you carry this weight I’m heartbroken too.

 

What I said next felt like the truest thing I've said in a long time, what I said we need to ask ourselves is:

 

Am I better off without this person in my life? Is there something missing?

 

 

 

Once you know the answer to that question then everything will fall into place...whichever way it goes...

 

She then responded that I was a King. I told her she was a Queen and deserved to be treated that way and she got skittish again saying she was busy with something at work, thanking me and saying she'll get to a healthy place with time. She then owned up to self destruction and depression this winter and how she's optimistic about spring. she closed saying: Im sorry I cant give you what you want and deserve yourself

 

.

I told her that was her decision then.

 

I'm back on "No Contact," or as little as possible being that we have a son. To me it's like all this love on a timetable stuff is wrong. You either feel something for someone or not? Am I being pushy?

 

I just don't know what to think anymore.

[You Go Girl]

Im sorry I cant give you what you want and deserve yourself

.

I told her that was her decision then.

 

I'm back on "No Contact," or as little as possible being that we have a son. To me it's like all this love on a timetable stuff is wrong. You either feel something for someone or not? Am I being pushy?

 

I just don't know what to think anymore.

 

First, I want to tell you that I tried to edit my original post, but it was too late. I think I shot from the hip there.

This other forum--did it say romantic love? Because falling asleep on the couch and being carried to bed could be what a parent did. I assumed there she meant the OM, and that was wrong of me. It could also be something that happened in a romantic relationship prior to OM, and prior to you? Her memories of life before you haven't disappeared either, although knowing you could read that would be in bad taste on her part.

 

I too struggle with your last question, the timetable, the waiting, and that you are either in love with someone, or you're not, plain and simple.

But...at the same time...people do need time to overcome hurt, work through issues, and work on themselves, so I'm stuck there too.

I think the timetable is basically within you. She doesn't get to set it, you do. It's your life, and when you've waited as long as you can stand to, then you will free yourself if need be, or insist upon reconciliation and actually get results. At that point, you win either way because you won't be stuck anymore.

[debtman]

...what I said we need to ask ourselves is:

 

Am I better off without this person in my life? Is there something missing?

 

 

I just don't know what to think anymore.

 

It sounds like you do know what to think. It will make you crazy trying to figure out what someone else is thinking and why they are making the decisions they make...

 

If you want a stable life for yourself and want to provide a stable environment for your son, it sounds like the best thing you can do is continue on the NC/LC path, work on yourself and work on letting your relationship go. She may change her mind, she may not, if she does, it may be too late because you may have moved on and found happiness within yourself, which is what she needs to do, but she isn't willing to do the work and is too insecure to admit that or make steps to change that.

 

It's been 5 months since my W told me our M was over and I'm just starting to get my life back together, enjoy working on myself and having more fun and quality time with the kids than ever before...It's not easy, but it's the best thing for me and for them...I'm healthier physically, working on the emotional and mental health and getting MY life back the way I want it to be. It's hard work and it takes effort everyday, but the rewards are fabulous.

 

Good luck and keep posting!

[worldgonewrong]

debtman: you are THE MAN.

I keep seeing how you counsel people and I'm just really in awe of your strength & wisdom. I keep learning a lot from you, so thank you.

 

don diego 78: as you browse around this forum, you'll notice a certain consistency with these situations. The variables might change here and there (for instance, there's no Other Man in the picture re my wife) but the psychological meltdown & bridge-burning is right there, just as I've read it in countless posts. So know that I and others share your pain. I hate saying "welcome" in this case, 'cause it's such a sh*tty club to belong to! But hey, as debtman points out, there IS always a light at the end of the tunnel. That's a fact.

[debtman]

wgw, thanks, LS has certainly helped me immensely over the past months and I'm just trying to do whatever I can to try to help out other people who were in similar situations.

 

It's during times of crisis, or while facing the obstacles and challenges that life throws at you that you really dig down and figure out what really matters to you and what is really important.

 

I know you've certainly done lots of that and made some major self-changes and that's what it's all about. If we don't learn from our previous relationships, we're bound to repeat the mistakes we made.

 

dd78, all you can do is focus on yourself, accept the fact that you can't change her or force her to see the insanity of her decision or understand how it affects everyone else.

 

Be strong and keep posting!

[don diego 78]

So, major update.

 

This past weekend it was my weekend with my son. The day she dropped him off I couldn't help but giver her a hug after she mentioned driving by our old apartment (a grandparent was hospitalized last week with pneumonia and I was feeling vulnerable I guess so I broke NC), I then told her she sucked and she said I know and she then said everything was going to be alright (not sure what she was referring to.) Normally when she calls to check in over the course of the weekend I don't get on the phone but she was asking for me and seemed to be happy sharing that "phone time." Today she calls in the AM and tells me she has sent an email asking me on a date. I said oh boy but not much else. Then she said she was coming over to get our son. Normally, I don't let her in the apartment anymore since NC but she had thrown a line so I figured I'd see where it went. The minute she came in gave me a quick kiss and then we held eachother a while. My son was watching TV in the bedroom and she lay down and I rubbed her back. It felt great. Then she asked me to lay down next to her and said something to the effect of so this ball is rolling then? I said to slow down and she pressed me for why and I told her we never got through that transparency phase...she never let me see those phone records and I didn't trust her. She asked why I had to see them and I said because I need to know what the truth is about this ex. I said all this with hesitation because I was afraid she'd bolt again, turns out I'm the one bolting. She asked what period of time and I said the whole time (a year and a half since she moved out). She brokedown and said I'm going to see conversations but that's all they were. Maybe 7 of them, some RECENT, friendly stuff...no more than 10 minutes. No midnight calls or anything like that. I told her there was nothing to talk about. She cried, we talked a little more, and then I asked her to leave. Again, she's "assuring" me nothing happened but how am I supposed to believe this...?

[worldgonewrong]

If you get what you want, regarding the record of phone calls, ultimately what will it do for you? Ya know? Will it close the book and then enable you both to grow?

I'm just trying to figure out what the end result is supposed to be, what this will achieve.

(I support you, btw.)

[don diego 78]

It's a good question. Well, to be honest, I was really hoping that there was no contact between them since that summer but part of me knew better. The thing is in the end I see no way forward.

 

Throughout our relationship, I always suspected I wasn't receiving 100%. My insecurities led to my belief that she was carrying a torch for someone (she had multiple relationships before me, I had one) and I brought a lot of drama, petty jealousy, and was accused of "living in her past" just for trying to make sense of the present/future.

 

There came a point in the spring of 2009 where I had had enough and I wanted/needed answers. I installed a keylogger on our computer and began checking emails. She had recently begun hanging out with some old girlfriends from high school who were involved in affairs from what I heard. I was worried. Everything was fine for a month, then I found some poems that seemed to be describing an old flame in a dream. One day I told her I heard her saying someone else's name in her sleep and she seemed bothered but denied. I would say for the month or so that I was monitoring her emails I didn't see anything that said affair. As our relationship started to crumble for other reasons I continued checking her emails and finally discovered she had been chatting with the ex the day before moving out. I then went in her phone records online...checked the texts. There had been communication between the two with a brief lull while we went on vacation. Then it started up again as our relationship went to ****. Turns out she initiated the contact after I mentioned the name in her sleep...it was him she was dreaming about and she saw it as some "bad karma" that she wanted to deal with. Then it became "friendly" chats...the longest couple of calls were about 40 minutes. Everything was done in secret, behind my back. The email in which I discovered the contact was her telling her girlfriend how much his voice was turning her on in their conversations (emotional to physical>?) I contacted that ex at work and scared the crap out of him, when she found out she emailed both of us in the same email and even quoted what she had said to her girlfriends about his voice to "have everything out in the open." 3 months later we were hanging out, I went in her phone while she slept and found an email to her girlfriends in which she stated the following:

 

I'm still in love with (me). I can't deny it. We had that major fight this weekend and a small one yesterday and in the solitude of Sunday with (our son) and the rain, I accepted the negatives I bring into all of my relationships, this one included. (He) is already claiming his so it's nice to hear him speak, now I wait for his actions. Watching (our son) on Sunday play made me realize that (he) and I were a good couple on our good days and that the family we were creating was a beautiful one.

 

(Ex's name), the name, is an illusion, a fantasy, and I need to stop living like a 17 yr old girl with stars in my eyes and see what's before me before it's too late.

 

(Name of another male friend), or insert name of hot ass here, is another form of ego stroking illusion.

 

(Again referring to me) is looking good, swaggering more confidently and he's asked me to date him, to allow him to court me and I've said Yes!

 

 

Somehow she convinced me that I was reading the above wrong when I got upset. I didn't understand how her lies to me about the ex not meaning anything and there was never any intention etc. with him could lead to the above statement a couple of months later. She also admitted they had spoken over the phone that summer yet again to laugh at the whole thing.

 

After a difficult summer we agreed to move in together, did couples counseling before she bailed as pressure was on to see the phone records (I always assumed it was that.) Our interactions were better but we had a few moments, mostly fed by my fresh insecurity/suspicion (did I have a right at this point?) Then came me trying to break into her phone account and find information I felt I needed to move on. I was kicked out and it'll be like a year and a half this July.

 

I feel like this long narrative is telling me everything I need to know but I am in denial. I have a strong sense of pride and honor but at the same time I want to be humble for love. She's sitting across from me crying about how she has no self-worth and is accusing me of making everything about this ex when I had my issues too...I acknowledge them, went to therapy for a year while she has done 0 therapy. Wasn't it a bad decision of hers to continue "friendly chats" with this man after all we went through...even if it is all that happened (which I still doubt)?

 

I'm lost.

Edited March 7, 2011 by don diego 78

[willowthewisp]

Erm, she is admitting to the girlfriend in the message that she is considering her husband (you) as an option as compared to two other men! She is married, she shouldn't even be considering other men and definately not comparing them to you. This women has no committment, no integrity and no honour, ask yourself, is that someone you want to be with?

 

Personally I think you deserve more, everyone does. There are decent women out there who would not treat you like this. I was faithful to my ex for nearly 20 years, in body and mind, as in I didn't even fantasise about other men, not even celebs. Why would I? I loved my ex dearly, you don't do that to someone you love. This women does not know what it means to love.

[don diego 78]

Just to be clear we were not married. Engaged, with a son, Co-habitating for 5 years. For us...we were married...living like it...I know others might say "but technically" but I believe it's more a state of mind.

 

It's funny. The qualities you bring up: I was all those things. Sure I had my faults but I never strayed and always put her at the top. Even over myself. That's what I need to stop for future relationships I think.

 

And the funny thing about this ex is that he (is one of many boyfriends who) cheated on her multiple times and in their case basically had her as a mistress without her knowing it. She picks the winners I guess.

 

Thanks.

Edited March 7, 2011 by don diego 78

[willowthewisp]

Just to be clear we were not married. Engaged, with a son, Co-habitating for 5 years. For us...we were married...living like it...I know others might say "but technically" but I believe it's more a state of mind.

 

It's funny. The qualities you bring up: I was all those things. Sure I had my faults but I never strayed and always put her at the top. Even over myself. That's what I need to stop for future relationships I think.

 

And the funny thing about this ex is that he (is one of many boyfriends who) cheated on her multiple times and in their case basically had her as a mistress without her knowing it. She picks the winners I guess.

 

Thanks.

 

I wasn't married either, but lived as we were and he led me to beleive he thought of me as his wife, just kept promising marriage for 10 years and never delivering, complete committment phobic, bolted when we finally booked the church. Anyway, I get what you mean, you thought of her as forever and you have a child together.

 

Goodness knows what her problem is, I can't get into the mentalilty of these women who behave like this.

[don diego 78]

I just dunno.

 

She reinforces that she never met with him in person, has not gotten into any relationships, and yet, I find it so incredibly wrong of her to have maintained this "phone friendship" all this time. it's a lack of honor in my book. what if that was just leaving another door open? It should have been closed if she had any intention with me because now I'm looking at the facts and just saying no...If she had gone no contact with this ex after what happened that would've been a different story I think.

 

I have no way of verifying what did/did not happen at this point. Even if she does accuse me of being capable of spinning all kinds of stories before evn looking at the phone records, it's still an epic fail on her part.

[don diego 78]

Could really use some advice on this folks. No matter what you want to give. I know it's a lot to read so forgive me, I am without health insurance at the moment which means no therapy.

[You Go Girl]

And I think the opposite...

you put aside your so-called pride and honor for this woman if you love her, otherwise you lose.

She said quite a bit in that email or text or whatever it was...she said the most important thing--that she is still in love with you.

What else do you want? That's all there is buddy. Love is as good as it gets.

So put aside the control issues, insecurities, phone and computer monitoring, and decide what's more important--feeding your insecurities or loving someone back who obviously loves you.

[trippi1432]

I guess a perspective here is that if you truly love her and she wants another chance, then you should both try for a fresh start. Lay it on the table at this point that you want the two of you to have an open and honest relationship...no games and no using the past to control her or take unfair advantage of the relationship.

 

On the other hand, if you feel that you can never trust her, then you need to push on as her behavior and your mistrust may not be resolved. I see a lot of push/pull on both your parts in what you have written so far....Push/Pull...that is the reason for her behavior, you are both riding each other's emotions and causing the confusion. She's not bipolar, your relationship is...cycling between indecisiveness on both your parts. You are both acting and reacting to each other's emotions.

[worldgonewrong]

And I think the opposite...

you put aside your so-called pride and honor for this woman if you love her, otherwise you lose.

She said quite a bit in that email or text or whatever it was...she said the most important thing--that she is still in love with you.

What else do you want? That's all there is buddy. Love is as good as it gets.

So put aside the control issues, insecurities, phone and computer monitoring, and decide what's more important--feeding your insecurities or loving someone back who obviously loves you.

 

 

THIS!

And what Trippi wrote, too!!

[rugbyplayer1990]

Do you think your ex girlfriend has had an affair in the past? not including the past 1.5 years of seperation? I'm in the same boat in many ways, however, I think my STBX had a relationship prior to our seperation..

[don diego 78]

Thanks for the comments all. I really appreciate it. They've made me think. It's true, if there is love here on both sides we should definitely fight for this (realize I've been fighting all along however) particularly with a son involved, particularly when it is the family we both miss the most I think. We saw eachother last night at the pick-up of our son. It was kind, we hugged, etc. but made no mention of anything. Earlier in the day I had expressed everything to her via email with the notion we could move on but that it was going to take work and there had to be something done to help me understand why contact was continued with the ex, even if it wasn't physical (which I can't completely rule out you know?) In my mind the thing that sticks out the most is that I have done a year of therapy and made many changes, addressing what I brought to the relationship. She has done 0 therapy and now appears to be displaying the same behaviors (behaviors that in effect WILL make me suspicious), behaviors that produce a vicious cycle by talking with the ex. Our couples counselor way back had told me in private once she bailed and I continued going to her that it seemed like a relationship in which she was always going to push my buttons, buttons that perhaps wouldn't even be there if it were not for her taking actions that provoked. So I'm feeling kind of stuck emotionally. Afraid. Confident in my love but not completely confident in hers. What are people's thoughts on this...We were separated...was talking to the ex in that time after everything we had gone through with that third party on her way out bad form? She has promised there were no "midnight" calls. Do I take her on her word? Is it fair for me to have told her yesterday you either cut the cord with him or me?

 

@ rugby, no I know there were no affairs in our time together.

[don diego 78]

To me, if she was talking to her ex the whole time it might explain her inability to come back, something she chalked up to fear the whole time. Confusion? My thing is what if this separation was meant as a pass for her to do whatever she wanted? She has demonstrated in other areas that's what it was about for her (at first) but changed once I showed her that it was affecting her relationship with her son (she was out partying/dancing a lot like she did as a kid, leaving our son at grandma's all the time when she had him.) Obviously, if this is what happened then it is too late. I feel like integrity is important but what sucks is I keep reacting from a place of which situation will hurt more? leaving or staying. the thought of a future without her is difficult even after all this time...does that say more about me or her? IS that unhealthy?