What is it with this woman? Bi-polar maybe?

[betterdeal]

Take it slowly. Get to know one another again. Put the past in the past. Let her know that you'd like to get to know her again and see if you can build something beautiful between you. Make clear whatever conditions you have from the start. For me, the only condition is to speak from the heart and make your actions and words concur.

 

Getting to know one another gives you a chance to see if you're suited to one another. You have to let go of the anger and fear from the past if you are to have a loving, meaningful relationship now. You may well need to be assured through experience that she is not as unstable as she once was. Importantly, you both need to be okay with each other's hobbies, pastimes, interests because these will be what fill most of your time.

 

Go for a walk in the park with each other. Talk to one another. See how it feels to be with one another. If there are topics raised that you aren't ready to discuss, say so. If there are topics that you will not discuss, say so. Take it gently. Be kind to yourself.

[betterdeal]

Take it slowly. Get to know one another again. Put the past in the past. Let her know that you'd like to get to know her again and see if you can build something beautiful between you. Make clear whatever conditions you have from the start. For me, the only condition is to speak from the heart and make your actions and words concur.

 

Getting to know one another gives you a chance to see if you're suited to one another. You have to let go of the anger and fear from the past if you are to have a loving, meaningful relationship now. You may well need to be assured through experience that she is not as unstable as she once was. Importantly, you both need to be okay with each other's hobbies, pastimes, interests because these will be what fill most of your time.

 

Go for a walk in the park with each other. Talk to one another. See how it feels to be with one another. If there are topics raised that you aren't ready to discuss, say so. If there are topics that you will not discuss, say so. Take it gently. Be kind to yourself.

[betterdeal]

Duplicate post

Edited March 9, 2011 by betterdeal

[You Go Girl]

You're such a control freak. You're examining this thing to an extreme, especially that she talked with the ex. Get over it already. Do you own her? Is she not allowed to talk to people? And what does it mean to your self-worth if she talked to someone else? Does it diminish you? Destroy you?

She already told you about it. What else do you need? She said she loves you, not someone else. So what is your problem?

She's probably freaking out because she realizes that you are a control freak. She doesn't understand why you are making so much out of everything, blowing everything up and wanting endlessly exhausting conversations over the issue. It's making HER UNEASY and she's not sure sometimes if she wants to be with you because you have control issues.

I see it all the time on LS...control issues all over the place.

We don't own other people. They are allowed to talk to other people on the planet, even people we may not like.

If your goal in life is to find somebody that you can monitor the heck out of, know what they are doing every second, and try to get into their heads to monitor their thoughts, you're not going to find what you are looking for.

Good grief. You want to monitor this woman to an extreme, this woman has had your child, and you haven't even married her?

I think it's time you gave a little of that control over to her. Let her control you, so to speak. Marry the woman. You need to learn what it means to love without being in control all the time.

Edited March 9, 2011 by You Go Girl

[don diego 78]

I hear you, but I don't think you're being completely fair. I may have been a control freak at times but I was no worse than her. The hypocricy matters. This is a woman who was just as jealous and possesive as I was at times, but the difference is I never gave her reason to wonder and now in the end she has. I have not heard the words "I love you" from her in a long time. I have heard "I miss my family" but that won't deal with our relationship. Our reconciliation has to about us. Realize that the email to her girlfriends was from October of 2009. A lot of time has passed in which I have remained focused and devoted to patching things up (not seeing anyone) and I would expect the same from her, so to hear that she has continued talking to the ex that at the end was like a manifestation of all my fears in the relationship. I dunno. Who caused that? Me?

Yes, I have been accused of living in her past and it probably did have to do with my insecurities and my own past relationships. I've owned that and really taken a look at myself in therapy. I feel like I have a right to know the extent of that relationship that was basically a secret emotional affair as we broke up in 09. No contact with him would've been what was right. Continued contact? I dunno.

 

Believe me when I say the last thing I ever wanted was a monitoring situation. I wanted a love I could trust and she had me convinced that's what I had even with all our problems. My devotion was never a question.

[You Go Girl]

Believe me when I say the last thing I ever wanted was a monitoring situation. I wanted a love I could trust and she had me convinced that's what I had even with all our problems. My devotion was never a question.

 

If she had you convinced, then why did you question it?

 

I understand where you are coming from. But I don't think making a mountain out of this molehill --that she talked to her ex--is going to fix anything.

You say that she doesn't say she loves you, but she wrote in that email that she does.

She had no reason to lie to the girlfriend in the email, so I would trust what she wrote. See, now you're questioning that too! You can't question everything, it will destroy you both.

 

Let it go...let it go...let it go.

 

Find the right time, make the time right, and tell her you love her yourself.

[don diego 78]

The last we had left it I had emailed her telling her if we had any shot she would have to help me understand why conversations continued with the ex after leaving me.

 

The other day she sent me an email saying she felt like she was having a heart attack. I called her up and supported her, told her to breath, it was probably anxiety. She emailed me afterwards, thanking me and telling me the reasons she continued talking had to do with rebellion, depression, and weakness.

 

I told her right there and then because I had been thinking about it a lot that I was moving on and I didn't see a way past this. She said so be it and understood and apologized for everyone (me, her, my son)after i explained why. To me it seemed like if I could be doing all the work for a year to master my emotions, lack of trust, insecurity, constantly making attempts to reconcile, and in that time period she was engaged in the same inappropriate conversations as before...it's not right.

 

Look, I don't know who is with m on this and I'm tired of having to even go to these lengths of investigation but...If there is an emotional affair with an ex going on behind my back as you leave me and I am witness to emails implying desire for that man, then you come back to me trying to work things out but withold information from me to put me at ease, then kick me out of your house for seeking the truth, then 1 year later reveal that more conversations occured over the phone in the last year...WHAT exactly is to stop me from thinking this turned into something physical? There's NOTHING to stop me from thinking that. NOTHING.

[don diego 78]

Just wanted to post another update. People can feel free to chime in with advice on how to cope because I feel like the moment has arrived for me to take control of my life. I realize that mistakes were probably made on my side, and hers, and it just seems like I have no choice but to accept the outcome.

 

Following my last post there was some email correspondence between us that was flirty but at the same time I stood my ground on the phone records and she said not to "hold your breath since my concern isn’t making you feel good about who ive spoken with since we broke up." She said I had too many conditions and I said there was nothing to talk about.

We remained friendly.

 

Later that week our son got sick and I ultimately ended up sleeping over at her place in bed with them because he was up all night vomiting. We worked as a team. The next day I stayed home with the kid at my place and she came by after work. She looked great and I was caressing her etc. like an idiot.

 

The following Monday she and I went to register our son for Kindergarten and we had a blast. It was just like old times. Joking about stuff, etc, being goofy with eachother. When she dropped me off I got out kind of cold and waved goodbye quick.

 

Couple of days later I'm feeling pretty wiped out at work and sick. Emailing her, she's offering me support, and in a moment of weakness I vent about how bad I feel to know she won't back down on the issue of transparency, even for "us." She says she can't help me like I can't help her, and to speak with a therapist the same way she needs to. She says to get to the moving on with my life. When I press her on my right to know if she had been with the ex considering the fact that they were talking she said I was not her father, she didn't have to explain a damn thing to me, and to stop the drama, that she was done "carrying my cross." She also said we broke up for our own personal reasons and there was never any going back. She said, "I’ve moved on YES and how, with who, whether its who you think or not will never be your business just because I gave birth to your son. Stop overwhelming your life. Nothing is worth losing your life." Finally, she said the conversation was over

she was moving on with her life. To please do the same. Two years is too long to be in limbo for anyone. She apologized for the mixed messages in her moments of lacking clarity, insecurity, sadness, etc. but that she was not moving towards being with me, for no reason other than we don’t work and she's not convinced otherwise. I can blame who I am or whatever I want but she's clear: Please move on and let her be in peace with her future.

 

That night I stopped by her place unexpectedly with the excuse I had to pick something up from her place. I hoped to smooth things over. My son latched on to me and didn't want me to leave. She got pissed and said I'd have to wait till he fell asleep so I rubbed his head while he lay on the couch, tried to rub hers and she moved away cold. All this time I hadn't had dinner yet and was sick so I did have to get home. My son fell asleep and I snuck out without saying anything to her. A minute later she's yelling down that he was awake again to come back up. I sat down and kept rubbing his head. She's telling me in spanish that I came by to "**** things up." He wouldn't go to sleep. I got up and picked him up and told him we were going to my apartment. His mom got very angry saying it was her night and started a litany in spanish. I'm miserable, I use my son as a crutch, etc, she never just stops by at my place (hardly true), why am i confusing him (after two damn years of her confusion)? I wasn't going to back down and it got loud (but in spanish). It was the exact thing I'd promised her I would never do again...yell in front of my son. And here I was doing it, even though she started it as usual in abusive fashion. Anyhow it was enough for her to take THIS event as the event that changed everything. "I haven't changed." All that work and therapy for nothing. She doesn't want to be me. Period.

 

So I said...F it.

 

In the end I don't know if I was wrong or right. If my pride was too much in the end. I think I was ready to move on with the courage and the belief that she had been "loyal" as she said. But I was too late. The idea that her not sharing her phone records back in 2009 and now, implied her sharing something that she didn't want revealed, that wasn't in her best interest bothered me too much.

 

I love her. But I have to walk away now. It hurts but there's been so much yo-yoing these past two years on her part that it feels a little less stinging this time.

[don diego 78]

I would be interested in knowing whether folks thought my suspicions were probably correct. Thanks.

[debtman]

Chances are, if she's unwilling to share the records with you, she's got something to hide. I know my W did.

 

It doesn't really matter though. If she can't commit to you, can't commit to her family, can't make the effort and work on changing to save the relationship and the family, she's not worth it.

 

Move on, be strong. Work on being the best person and best father you can be. Be the best role-model and influence you can be for your son. THE most difficult part of the entire process is losing time with the kids and watching them suffer and struggle with everything.

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[don diego 78]

Thanks for the words.

[don diego 78]

Would love to get more of the female perspective.

[You Go Girl]

Would love to get more of the female perspective.

 

Here's one female's perspective...

 

I think you're obsessing over those phone records. Does it really matter? No!

If you were going to reconcile, you would both put it behind you, EVEN if she did talk to him. So who cares about those stupid phone calls?

 

But, you aren't going to reconcile.

She has said that you should move on, that she has. Those are the stinging ending words of it all from my perspective. At that point, whether she talked to another man on the phone doesn't matter one iota.

 

I hope you take care of yourself and yes, love your kids as much as you can...they can't get too much love you know.

[debtman]

You go girl has a good point. I went snooping through my W's emails once and did find something. I didn't confront her about it because I knew it would just make things worse. Even when she asked me if I had been in her email and I told her that I had, I didn't tell her I found anything.

 

That was the last time I looked at her email, thought about checking her phone messages, etc. Just wasn't worth finding out.

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[don diego 78]

Here's one female's perspective...

 

She has said that you should move on, that she has. Those are the stinging ending words of it all from my perspective. At that point, whether she talked to another man on the phone doesn't matter one iota.

 

 

She has said this about 8 times in the last two years at different times...behaving like a real yo-yo but this time I'm pretty certain I can't go on with that anymore, and I definitely don't want my son going through it.

 

I guess in a way that's exactly the point about the calls. If it was just calls I could move on from it, and that's exactly what I was prepared to do I realized, if it was more than that then I wouldn't. She either doesn't love me enough to prove it and is allowing her ego to take over in the face of my ego's challenge or is too ashamed to acknowledge that she's been with the man, but knows what my decision would be if I knew so would rather just hold onto a phony sense of honor or whatever, keeping me in the dark.

 

I've read about so many similar circumstances and break-ups/divorce etc. Although an affair may have never happened I feel like transparency is not asking too much.

 

Period.

[don diego 78]

So the truth finally came out today. It's been what, about 2 months since my last post? Here's what I had finally started doing with my life:

 

-Getting it together for my son.

-Getting it together for myself.

-Getting it together with my career (which was suffering), and my ambitions.

-Getting it together with taking the gym more seriously.

-Getting it together with the "no contact" approach.

-Getting it together with socializing a bit, dating sites, etc. (preparing myself to start dating once again.)

 

The other day she calls me in tears. She's a mess. She has a new clarity and it's hitting her hard. Earlier in the day she had asked me what the plans were for father's day, and I said I might have plans already (keep in mind I have been with my son for every single father's day since he was born, she has missed one mother's day and was doing stuff most of the day on her own this past one) and she freaked out, accusing me of having met someone (after telling me about a month ago that she had started talking to someone.) Hearing her in tears made me admit that I wasn't seeing anyone (I should have played the none of your business card she's always played with me but I didn't have the heart) and she then admitted she had made up meeting someone to push me away. She said I was an incredible man. She mentioned hating the fact that I was putting "conditions" on us being together again (the phone records) but I stood my ground. The bottomline is if she had been with the ex (especially while leading my son and I on), "us" didn't exist anymore. Since she was afraid of the records I could only make my own judgement that something had happened and move on.

 

The thing is, I've been living, and happy, but also I think I had some reserved area in my heart telling me nothing had happened and this was just a control issue.

 

I just found out that wasn't the case. She called me from work and said that "if people told me she would regret it, they were right." Through the conversation we ended up having it finally became clear that physical stuff had happened with the ex while we were apart. She wanted to move on from it, said it was in the past, and we weren't together.

 

I basically summed it up like this: I am a man of conviction, I was always about working things out, what kind of man would I be if I took her back? No more than **** on the ground. I'm much better than that. The clearest thing I said I think was that I needed a STRONG woman with a backbone to match mine, who could weather the storms that life will inevitably throw at us. She denied trying to have her cake and eat it too, she denied coming back because it didn't work out with the ex. I told her she was a woman who needed to be treated like garbage to be happy (remember I'm an "incredible man.") She tried to tell me that because she's been in more relationships she has a better understanding of how love works than I do (the couples counselor used to call her on that bull**** all the time.) Those were relationships in which she was often cheated on. To me it's simple. She allowed the ex to get in the way of our reconciliation (denied btw.) There's a code to follow. She didn't follow it. She just did what she's always done: preserved the self. It's her world. Not at the expense of me and my son. Not anymore. She said she's happy for me being in a good place. I told her she sold out our family for some fantasy.

 

Here's the thing: Why do I feel like **** all of a sudden again? I've been in a good place. I need to get back there. Can somebody please help me get back there?

Edited May 27, 2011 by don diego 78

[dng]

Here's the thing: Why do I feel like **** all of a sudden again? I've been in a good place. I need to get back there. Can somebody please help me get back there?

 

Yeah.

 

You are what you are, stop trying to get advice from here. Everyone is different, some people will tell you "Love is everything, get over it" but you can't get over it and you know it.

 

Accept what you are and what the consequences of being you are. Stop giving her **** and scolding her, she wronged you (in what your world and your terms are, nothing wrong with that) and admitted to it.

 

You have good radars, keep listening to your instinct. You are sensitive to cheating, it makes you go insane, that's that. You can't take it, so that's that.

 

You are not crazy, you've been gaslighted, she also knows you and knew you would never take her back if she told you, or you would make her eat piles and piles and piles of dung before, if ever, forgiving her, she knew that too.

 

So be it. Roll with what you are, you know what to do.

 

Trying to change your nature to be with this woman is a losing battle for you. Change occurs slowly, over years, if there's a reason for it. Think about it.

 

If you put yourself in that situation again, you'll kill what's left of your ego and then your superego will kill you.

 

Something else to consider, as well. I dont mean to be harsh, but the fact she admitted means you don't have the upper hand you think you have in this. The fact she admitted means that she is moving on and accepting the consequences of her actions.

 

So stop being holier than thou, we all make mistakes, no one is perfect, she crossed right into your worst nightmares but it happens. It sucks, you feel terrible, your emotions are raw but it is what it is, for the better or worst. Something good will come out of it once you get yourself together again, someone more compatible. Meanwhile you can get off your white horse (I type this with a smile), maybe downgrade it to a white pony. We all make mistakes and err in judgement here and there, it just so happened she did whatever was the worst for you.

 

We all have different triggers and while all this feels very personal to you, let me assure you its all mundane in the face of the world.

Edited May 27, 2011 by dng

[don diego 78]

Thanks for this.

[whichwayisup]

Things didn't work with her and the ex..Or it wasn't what she thought it would be (a hidden affair to an out in the open real relationship) and realized once the 'fun and taboo' of the A wore off, she missed you.. And, she saw for a while that you weren't focussing on her anymore..That you were working on yourself, healing and slowly moving on, feeling better. She missed that cat and mouse game with you.. She sees you differently because you're not in her face moping and wanting her, fighting for her. You let go and now she is feeling it. Boo hoo for her.

 

She stirred up feelings in you. Don't confuse what she is doing with how she was in the very recent past. SHE TOLD YOU to leave her alone and get over you, move on with your life, that there was NO chance of you two working things out.

 

What you can do is suggest to her to work on herself, seek therapy and maybe one day soon do counselling with you BUT ONLY as Co Parents, not as a couple working things out. She needs to be on her own for a while. Figure stuff out. I have a feeling if you gave her a chance, she would push you away again because she's messed up.

 

Focus on being the best dad to your son, work on you and continue to have fun with friends.

[don diego 78]

My ultimate decision/analysis has to be this:

 

She took ahold of a root that she always blamed me for planting (thinking too much about her past relationships, questioning her love on occasion if I felt I wasn't getting enough affection etc.) and through her emotional affair and then what followed in our separation really cultivated that root, fed it while it became a plant and enjoyed its fruit, all the while knowing I was begging her to work things out. Knowing I suspected it had gone physical and it was driving me crazy. All the while sending totally confused messages to me and my son by yo-yoing when she felt the need to, and then yo-yoing away.

 

How could someone who claimed to love me manifest my fears in such a way.? I've done some therapy but damn if it doesn't make it harder to resume dating. It's why I've been alone for the last 2 years (even though everyone tells me I'm a catch, it's like I can't believe it.) My ego is obviously crushed. I'm just trying to rebuild it.

 

The thing that bothers me most is knowing that at the beginning of our separation she kept saying: "I know I'm going to end up regretting this." Now it's come full circle and I'm like you said regret 2 years ago and then went ahead and manifested this nightmare for me. Thanks for being strong. My feeling is she has always been a manipulator and this regret word was thrown out early on as the first of many carrots on a string that

I just blindly followed.

 

Is my self esteem that weak that I'm still trying to find explanations for her behavior. I should be looking at this situation and just saying the girl is not quality...period. Right?

 

This gaslight concept is new to me but seems very familiar. I'll look into it more.

[don diego 78]

What makes it especially hard today: I held her. She was crying and apologetic. Saying she was useless, would die alone, had ****** up etc.

 

I kept my cool. I told her I loved her, I also told her she'd get it right eventually with someone.

 

That's life I guess.

[robf1971]

Here's the thing: Why do I feel like **** all of a sudden again?

 

Because you shouldn't even be engaging in such conversations with this woman

 

Seriously, thats what voicemails were invented for..

[robf1971]

What makes it especially hard today: I held her. She was crying and apologetic. Saying she was useless, would die alone, had ****** up etc.

 

I kept my cool. I told her I loved her, I also told her she'd get it right eventually with someone.

 

That's life I guess.

 

 

She's seeing you begin to move on and that's not part of her plan. She wants you pining and crying for her, maybe as a backup plan if her little being single escapade fails. Please do not be someone's back up plan..

[don diego 78]

What I'm really upset about at this point is that she held me up from complete closure for SO long. Why was this? I imagine her intent was for me to never find out anything and continue living a lie. How many times in the last two years were there moments where we were sitting down asking the question of eachother: "So have you been with anyone? Nope. You? Nope." Further fueling HOPE. There were so many opportunities to let me know the info that would allow me to get on with living my life (what she kept insisting I do ironically enough) but she would pass so as not to look as she now does. Ego is a bitch.

 

All the same, I guess my moving on can be swift now due to this. I hope. I pray for strength.

 

Thanks to all who have helped along the way. Your perspectives mean a lot.

[don diego 78]

Having a hard time.

 

Following the revealing of the truth I really didn't know what to do with myself. A woman on facebook that shared a mutual friend with me randomly messaged me and we kind of hit it off. Problem was, she was in California. We began texting/IMing all the time. She had just been through a similar situation. The attraction was there. So was the distance. A part of me set no expectations of course, and I also realized this was probably a "safe" version of playing the field again. maybe not too realistic or healthy. All the same I planned a visit to California. During this time I rarely even thought about the ex. I'd see her daily as I always do in the dealings with our son but it's like I was over her. It was great.

Then I learned that this girl from California was trying to fix things with the ex. I cooled off from her significantly. Cancelled the trip etc. and found myself right where I started but with a little extra pain (even though I knew not to have expectations.) I've tried putting up a profile on dating sites and am not finding anyone I would be interested in (the ones I am, don't seem to respond and the ones I'm not seem to write me?) This point of weakness finds me wondering about the ex again in that romantic, idealistic way I tend to think. Then I'll have a day where I slap myself with my anger for her, for taking a bad situation and making it so much worse. It doesn't help that she seems ready to get together again if I wanted it, at the same time though last week I got an accidental call from her at 10:30 Friday night while I'm laying in bed with my son and I overhear her and a male voice followed by her saying "my a-hole was like..." and then her realizing I'm on the line and hanging up. It was like a dagger in my heart. She called back a few seconds later to cover-up/check what I heard, she acted like nothing had happened and was asking random questions. I texted her a minute later saying I shouldn't have to hear that **** and she apologized and said we had nothing and she was a on a date and they were talking "fresh" over a menu. I told her to f-off and that she could be getting $%#$% for all I cared.

The next morning she called and was crying. This isn't what she wants, she's heartbroken, suicidal when our son isn't with her on the weekends, etc. etc. and then she has the nerve to say "why can't you put yourself in my shoes?" She says that she's not as strong as me, that she dates people and they get the wrong idea ("catch feelings for her") (when you're talking about your a-hole with them? Really?) She said this wasn't the first date with this mystery individual when I commented at her ease talking raunchy...

 

I just don't know what to do at this point. I don't feel like I can ever forget what she did. Do I miss her? Yes. Very much so, even after 2 years. As my brother asked me though: If it isn't what she wants...why is she going after THAT and not what she WANTS? It's possible I'm just dealing with the pendelum while it's in my face. It'll swing away again which is why I stay put.

 

Maybe if I meet someone to put my attention in it'll be easier. I wish meeting someone wasn't so hard. I'm not a bad-looking guy, maybe I need to put myself out there some more, not just these dating sites.

 

I need therapy.

 

Edited August 2, 2011 by don diego 78