"All's Fair in Love and War"

[MorningCoffee]

What's Q.E.D?

 

My Latin's a little rusty after decades of non-use, but I think it is Quod Est Demonstratum . . . It Is Proved. Somethng like that (couldn't have gotten by with such imprecision in Mrs. Moore's 8th grade Latin class )

[LifesontheUp]

Well, it is mean to call someone almost as big as a mountain. I don't know how we can't agree as to that, at least. I think the point that other posters are trying to make is that it makes OWoman look bad to have what she wants (her H) and still be throwing out insults about his ex-wife. It is not a classy thing to do. IMO. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

 

This made me think of another saying you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

The all fair in love and war saying is used by those to justify actions that others may find immoral and distasteful.

[xxoo]

The idiom warns you not to be surprised if your rival in a war or a love "battle" does the worst thing possible to win.

 

The idiom is also used to justify our own actions when we know them to be otherwise indefensible. That is where I take issue with its use.

 

It reminds me of one of the advice columnists (was it Miss Manners? or maybe Dear Abby.... one of those types) who said that most of the letters written to her were looking for permission to do the wrong thing just this one time because THIS situation justifies it. Where would we be if we only did the right thing--the honorable thing--when it was easy?

[desertIslandCactus]

Is this thread a free-for-all? I read the OP and the title and they seem to have nothing to do with each other.

 

What am I missing? Its not for support. There is no discussion other than what seems to be gloating and baiting. How can I be a good participant in this thread if I don't quite get the point of it?

 

Or was the OP's intent to get people to argue about the text of the OP?

 

Posters can't discuss the title and meaning upon which the thread was founded?

 

OP gleefully boasts (gloating) about her win, her trophy. What is there to support. She's acting happy.

 

Any question in her OP is being answered.

[findingnemo]

It's a term used sometimes on here for people who were once OWs but who left the affair and feel that it was a bad decision for us to have been in the affair in the first place.

 

Well, it is mean to call someone almost as big as a mountain. I don't know how we can't agree as to that, at least. I think the point that other posters are trying to make is that it makes OWoman look bad to have what she wants (her H) and still be throwing out insults about his ex-wife. It is not a classy thing to do. IMO. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

 

See the above. If you don't call making fun of someone's weight "mocking" them, then, I guess we just have total differences of opinion.

 

 

Star Bright, others have tried to explain to me the history of OWoman and her H's fW in light of my vigourous defence. Unless I actually read old posts, I will not be able to read the "insults" in the same context. That will get sorted in time though.

 

rOW. That's a new one as opposed to "once an OW, always an OW".

[findingnemo]

I cannot remember the exact Latin phrase the letters stand for, but it's meaning is that the subject has been proven. It's used in mathematics.

 

 

My Latin's a little rusty after decades of non-use, but I think it is Quod Est Demonstratum . . . It Is Proved. Somethng like that (couldn't have gotten by with such imprecision in Mrs. Moore's 8th grade Latin class )

 

 

Thanks!:)

[tami-chan]

WOW! Why are you being so argumentative with everyone except those who agree with you or understand what it is you're trying to say?

 

LOL:lmao:. Actually I was having fun with Owl. Settle down, your star is dimming. Check this out. People who live by the saying "All is fair in love and war" do not concern themselves with fairness. Asking the question "is this fair?" in this context is moot.

 

Do you really think you are smarter than everyone or have some expert understanding of this saying that the rest of us are lacking due to our unenlightenment? For real? Wow!

 

Heavens, no...although it is quite a shock to me that many have misunderstood or choose to misunderstand this saying.

[Viscious Vendetta]

Is that why there are many more martyrs than closeted sinners?

Non sequitur...

[Viscious Vendetta]

Is this thread a free-for-all? I read the OP and the title and they seem to have nothing to do with each other.

 

What am I missing? Its not for support. There is no discussion other than what seems to be gloating and baiting. How can I be a good participant in this thread if I don't quite get the point of it?

 

Or was the OP's intent to get people to argue about the text of the OP?

That's what I thought.

This made me think of another saying you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

The all fair in love and war saying is used by those to justify actions that others may find immoral and distasteful.

Or you can't polish a turd.

[Owl]

LOL:lmao:. Actually I was having fun with Owl. Settle down, your star is dimming. Check this out. People who live by the saying "All is fair in love and war" do not concern themselves with fairness. Asking the question "is this fair?" in this context is moot.

 

 

 

Heavens, no...although it is quite a shock to me that many have misunderstood or choose to misunderstand this saying.

 

I don't think its a "misunderstanding" of the saying.

 

I think it simply means different things to different people, also dependent upon the context its used in. See my previous post about the three likely meanings I'd mentioned earlier.

 

As far as people who use this phrase not being concerned with fairness, that's only partially true.

 

They're unconcerned with fairness when it would "cost them something" if they were required/expected to be fair to someone else.

 

Pretty much everyone expects everyone else to treat them "fairly". Even people who profess to live by this saying will be angry/upset/hurt if someone else treats them in a fashion that they feel is unfair. And...odds are that they'd be upset/hurt by someone who hurt them as a result of living by the "all is fair" concept and they came out on the 'losing end'.

 

Most people only accept "being unfair" when they benefit from it, when they do accept it at all. Very, very few people aren't concerned with fairness when they're the recipients of "unfair" behavior or actions.

[neveragain1]

That's what I thought.

Or you can't polish a turd.

 

pouring perfume on a pig doesn't do much for the stench either

[NoIDidn't]

I don't think its a "misunderstanding" of the saying.

 

I think it simply means different things to different people, also dependent upon the context its used in. See my previous post about the three likely meanings I'd mentioned earlier.

 

As far as people who use this phrase not being concerned with fairness, that's only partially true.

 

They're unconcerned with fairness when it would "cost them something" if they were required/expected to be fair to someone else.

 

Pretty much everyone expects everyone else to treat them "fairly". Even people who profess to live by this saying will be angry/upset/hurt if someone else treats them in a fashion that they feel is unfair. And...odds are that they'd be upset/hurt by someone who hurt them as a result of living by the "all is fair" concept and they came out on the 'losing end'.

 

Most people only accept "being unfair" when they benefit from it, when they do accept it at all. Very, very few people aren't concerned with fairness when they're the recipients of "unfair" behavior or actions.

 

Hi OWL!

 

I think there is just a huge amount of denial going on. So many OWs come to this forum thinking their affair was unique, only to read the stories and find out that theirs is textbook. Not saying this to insult them, there is just a script that married people that take lovers seem to follow. But somehow saying this is insulting to some. Or considered to be taking over the narrative of what this forum was meant for.

 

Back to my point, sorry. There is an amount of denial on the part of many OPs in that they actually seem to think that their married lover would never turn around and do the same thing to them that they did to their previous partner. It could be that the married lover is just that convincing in saying so.

 

Either way, I don't believe for minute that anyone claiming to always live by the title of this thread actually does so. Every normal person would be hurt and angry if an intimate betrayed them. Especially if the betrayer and their accomplice turned to them and said "all's fair in love and war".

 

FTR, I have no issue with the saying. I'm okay with being on the winning side of that equation, but I accept that I might not be. If its okay for me to unfairly win, I have to accept that its okay for someone else to do so at my expense too.

[NoIDidn't]

Well I don't believe all is fair in love. I can't speak about war because I am a lover not a fighter. But love is not fair.

 

I am a dancer. I travel with my dance company from time to time, leaving my wife at home with our children. I always spoil her before I go away, buying her nice pretty negligees and lacey stockings, the sort of things I'd like to wear myself, but in her size of course!

 

My wife knows I like to dress up in pretty clothes. I don't wear hers. I have my own which I keep in suitcase under the bed. I only dress up when the children are out. I don't want to have to explain to them that I am not gay, I just love getting in touch with my feminine side! But my wife could not accept me for the man I am and rejected my inner self and had an affair while I was away! Wench!

 

I can't afford a divorce with two children and a wife who doesn't work. But how can I trust her now? If I go away on tour she will get up to her tricks again I am sure! I can't believe she would put on those pretty things I bought her for this man who can't even tell satin from silk!

 

Love is definitely not fair!

 

Can't tell satin from silk?! Oh my!

[tami-chan]

I don't think its a "misunderstanding" of the saying.

 

IMHO, it is or was .

 

I think it simply means different things to different people, also dependent upon the context its used in. See my previous post about the three likely meanings I'd mentioned earlier.

Nothing to "see", you have not proven anything...QED-not!

 

As far as people who use this phrase not being concerned with fairness, that's only partially true.

 

They're unconcerned with fairness when it would "cost them something" if they were required/expected to be fair to someone else.

LOL:D...Owl...someone who truly believes and lives by this saying would have respect(albeit with hate, probably) for the opposing party who equally believes and lives by this saying.

 

Like I said, I do not really believe there are many who have to courage, the strength nor the integrity to live up to it( if you can call it "living up"). I certainly don't.

Edited March 3, 2011 by tami-chan

[Owl]

IMHO, it is or was .

 

Nothing to "see", you have not proven anything...QED-not!

 

LOL:D...Owl...someone who truly believes and lives by this saying would have respect(albeit with hate, probably) for the opposing party who equally believes and lives by this saying.

 

Like I said, I do not really believe there are many who have to courage, the strength nor the integrity to live up to it( if you can call it "living up"). I certainly don't.

 

You just seem rather bound and determined to try to walk right along the edge of insult today, TC. I've seen you accuse someone else on this thread of this, but your posts today have been rife with veiled/implied insults, towards me in particular.

 

Not interested in playing your game further...there just isn't any value in it.

 

Not really much left on this thread to discuss anyway...hasta, y'all.

[tami-chan]

You just seem rather bound and determined to try to walk right along the edge of insult today, TC. I've seen you accuse someone else on this thread of this, but your posts today have been rife with veiled/implied insults, towards me in particular.

 

Not interested in playing your game further...there just isn't any value in it.

 

Not really much left on this thread to discuss anyway...hasta, y'all.

 

Owl..nothing I said to you is veiled. I think they are pretty clear.

[findingnemo]

"If he loves you, he'll move mountains to be with you"...

 

Did we agree on this one? I think so, I dont remember any differing views.

 

Yet when he does (OK, she wasn't quite as big as a mountain...), the nay-sayers don't clasp their hands in delight at the manifestation of true love trouncing the adversity that threatened to obstruct it, instead they mutter darkly about "what he did with you, he'll do to you".

 

People, we haven't discussed this one yet except for the big mountain part. Is it true that the only time people are happy is when the OW doesn't get the man and is miserable? Do "nay sayers" on this forum frequently exhibit a double standard?

 

That's fine - he made love with me, I'm quite happy for him to make love to me, too :love:

 

I'm sorry if I seem to be fanning the flames here...As you all know, I am relatively new and so I'm still making my judgements about different posters. OWoman is very hard to miss. She fascinates me because she sometimes comes from so far left field - yet manages to make sense and offer a balanced and reasonable point of view. Her style is extreme provocation and she has no problem holding her own. That's what I think so far about her.

 

So as a newbie, I am quite inclined to worry about her assertion that people on this forum are hypocrits. That many will rejoice in the pain of an OW who has been thrown under the bus (I love that expression) and will do their best to dampen the spirits of an OW who has seemingly "won" her man. Is this true?:confused:

 

OWoman, where art thou?

[tami-chan]

Non sequitur...

 

LOL..is it?

[Spark1111]

I'm sorry if I seem to be fanning the flames here...As you all know, I am relatively new and so I'm still making my judgements about different posters. OWoman is very hard to miss. She fascinates me because she sometimes comes from so far left field - yet manages to make sense and offer a balanced and reasonable point of view. Her style is extreme provocation and she has no problem holding her own. That's what I think so far about her.

 

So as a newbie, I am quite inclined to worry about her assertion that people on this forum are hypocrits. That many will rejoice in the pain of an OW who has been thrown under the bus (I love that expression) and will do their best to dampen the spirits of an OW who has seemingly "won" her man. Is this true?:confused:

 

OWoman, where art thou?

 

In my experience, no.

 

Some people are provocative; some are extremely moral and religious; but no, I rarely see someone come here to bash OW specifically. There may be a few, but usually they are very newly in pain over an infidelity that affected them personally.

 

Some BS come here to educate to the pain they experienced; some come to speak of the selfishness of a WS during the affair.

 

I find most are really trying to be helpful, though everyone has an opinion, a right to express it; and a right to have it, or expect, it challenged.

 

That's my opinion of the majority of LS posters.

[tami-chan]

The idiom is also used to justify our own actions when we know them to be otherwise indefensible. That is where I take issue with its use.

 

Interesting, xxoo. I believe this is true. People use this saying as if it excuses them from the actions they have taken or decisions they have made. In reality, if they really believe in this saying they would not even care. The fact, that anyone would even say that seems to me that there is a need for outside validation. Which appears to destroy the whole premise.

 

Back to the OP :

 

I think we applaud and celebrate "successful" relationships when it reflects our own beliefs and values. So that, a BS who "moves mountains" to fix he/his marriage and succeeds he/she is applauded by those, say. who are more traditional/conventional/conservative and the like but an AP who "moves mountains" to be with the married partner is frowned upon by the same.

[woinlove]

You just seem rather bound and determined to try to walk right along the edge of insult today, TC. I've seen you accuse someone else on this thread of this, but your posts today have been rife with veiled/implied insults, towards me in particular.

 

Not interested in playing your game further...there just isn't any value in it.

 

Not really much left on this thread to discuss anyway...hasta, y'all.

 

FWIW, I read her posts to you and others the same way. ... hasta.

[pureinheart]

Wonderful! When your H tires of you and starts screwing OW, it will bo okay then.

 

I seriously doubt that would ever happen. To know OWoman, is to love her. She adds and doesnot take away.

[donnamaybe]

Maybe it's time to post a link to that blog again!

Mercifully, it was either deleted or just placed elsewhere on the net. Those were most definitely the ponderings of a person I would choose to never meet IRL.

[WTFBBQ]

I seriously doubt that would ever happen. To know OWoman, is to love her. She adds and doesnot take away.

You wouldn't know unless you were the MM.

 

Mercifully, it was either deleted or just placed elsewhere on the net. Those were most definitely the ponderings of a person I would choose to never meet IRL.

Unfortunately, there's another one that's as bad or worse. waste of bandwidth.

[desertIslandCactus]

You wouldn't know unless you were the MM.

 

Unfortunately, there's another one that's as bad or worse. waste of bandwidth.

 

... or his family, incl last wife.