Owl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well, I guess I am going to have to disagree with you. It's not the best answer, or the preferred answer, but it is an answer. And sometimes in some circumstances people feel it is their only answer. I don't agree with them, but then I don't agree with a lot of people... Respectfully I'm going to disagree with you. It's not an answer...it's a postponement. It's avoidance of providing an answer. It simply delays the need to provide an answer...but unfortunately it comes at a price paid by others, rather than just by the person who should be seeking the answers directly, rather than avoiding dealing with them in an up front manner. It's a short term avoidance technique, rather than a true solution. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Respectfully I'm going to disagree with you. It's not an answer...it's a postponement. It's avoidance of providing an answer. It simply delays the need to provide an answer...but unfortunately it comes at a price paid by others, rather than just by the person who should be seeking the answers directly, rather than avoiding dealing with them in an up front manner. It's a short term avoidance technique, rather than a true solution. I agree that it's rather along the line of saying "God brought him" when asked by your 3 year-old where his baby brother came from. It's not a complete answer, and it is not a true solution, but it is at some times and for some people the only "answer" available to them at the time. (and please remember, I'm not defending cheating.... ) Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Respectfully I'm going to disagree with you. It's not an answer...it's a postponement. It's avoidance of providing an answer. It simply delays the need to provide an answer...but unfortunately it comes at a price paid by others, rather than just by the person who should be seeking the answers directly, rather than avoiding dealing with them in an up front manner. It's a short term avoidance technique, rather than a true solution. That's subjective. I may agree with your view on what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people cheating IS the true solution and will be for the foreseeable future, or forever. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 That's subjective. I may agree with your view on what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people cheating IS the true solution and will be for the foreseeable future, or forever. We'll have to agree to disagree. Lying/cheating is an avoidance of dealing with a problem...not an actual solution. Not subjective IMHO...my experience has shown me that there's always a price to be paid for going this route...it's just postponed for some length of time and typically made worse by lying and cheating about it. I'll grant that they may THINK it's a solution at the time...but there's rarely much thought about the long term ramifications, or any real understanding of what's likely to come out of this choice when it's made. They THINK it's their solution...but they eventually find it was simply a delaying tactic for actually addressing the issues. Like I said...we'll probably have to agree to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 DIC I understand your thinking and where the closed marriage concept comes from but the fact is......when an affair goes on someone opened that door, the marriage is no longer closed. It's always a closed contract. If someone works for a company, leaves the company and in doing so - sacrifices the terms of the contract, I think that could be termed as violating the closed contract. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It's always a closed contract. If someone works for a company, leaves the company and in doing so - sacrifices the terms of the contract, I think that could be termed as violating the closed contract. Moonlighting? Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It's always a closed contract. If someone works for a company, leaves the company and in doing so - sacrifices the terms of the contract, I think that could be termed as violating the closed contract. Well you said it.........someone did violate the closed contract, that was my point. Violation, opened, it's pretty much the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Oh come now. Many marriages are the result of affairs. And many people attend those weddings and celebrate the marriage and toast to the happiness of the bride and groom. I know I have and most probably will again. I wouldn't attend. I can understand people wishing to compromise. But it's still no reason to celebrate. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Moonlighting? I know DIC is not going to see the humor in that, but I almost fell out of my chair laughing. :laugh: No DIC I'm not laughing at you because I get it that you take this closed stuff very seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The thing is, it's not really "opened" if all parties aren't aware it's opened. How "open" is a marriage wherein only ONE party feels they should be allowed to cheat? If the WS were to tell their spouse about their little side fling, THEN the M could be truly "open." Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The thing is, it's not really "opened" if all parties aren't aware it's opened. How "open" is a marriage wherein only ONE party feels they should be allowed to cheat? If the WS were to tell their spouse about their little side fling, THEN the M could be truly "open." Well you are stating the obvious but you would agree if someone is in a affair the marriage isn't closed either, right? Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I wouldn't attend. I can understand people wishing to compromise. But it's still no reason to celebrate. I understand and appreciate the fact that you hold to your standards, but my response was in regards to a prior statement (I don't believe you made it) saying that no one celebrates a marriage that comes about due to an affair. That is simply not true. I personally wish that no marriage ever suffered through an affair, however, my standards are different from yours, and once the couple has resolved the deception and stopped the lying I would willingly celebrate their new marriage. I would not, however, help them in the original deceit nor be a party to it. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I know DIC is not going to see the humor in that, but I almost fell out of my chair laughing. :laugh: No DIC I'm not laughing at you because I get it that you take this closed stuff very seriously. I saw her humor and with her happyface. I just told myself: SG Your reeeching.. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well you are stating the obvious but you would agree if someone is in a affair the marriage isn't closed either, right? Obviously not. Hence, the lying and sneaking around like a little boy trying to get away with misbehaving is NEVER the way to go. The only one it's "open" to is the one who knows about the deceit. What a 5h!tty way to handle the situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Yes' date=' they do. Especially when they came about after an affair. Those have a 75% or higher failure rate. Much higher than the 50% bandied about here. I guess the next OW to the MM that marries his OW has a much better chance of getting him to leave.[/quote'] Luckily in many REAL LIFE cases, there is no "next OW" for the current W to worry about... Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 The reason nobody celebrates marriages that came from affairs is because they involved ending someone else's happy ending. Oh ? I don't call my parent's M a "happy ending" for either of them - they were both completely miserable, and only stayed together "for the kids" and split as soon as we were grown. My father's A did not "end" anything, and certainly not a "happy ending". Instead, it spawned one Some people get M for reasons other than love and a belief in a "happy ending". Pretending otherwise is disingenuous and also ignores the fact that abusive, toxic or unhappy marriages SHOULD be ended, and should not be masked as "happy endings" to brainwash kids into thinking all Ms are like that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Tsk, tsk.... It's not a fact that NOBODY celebrates those M's, just some people. And you're right, the people in those M's love their spouses madly and don't care about what other people think... Not because they got what they wanted, but because they love their spouse. While I don't care what haters think, I do care what other people think. It matters to me that his family celebrate our M, because his family matter to BOTH of us, and we to them. It matters to me that his friends celebrate our M, because friends matter. It matters to me that our neighbours celebrate our M, because good neighbours are a boon and a blessing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Normally I wouldn't say I KNOW anything about anyone (including myself). I would say I believe such and so. However, this is indeed different. I really do know he would never cheat again. The kind of gut-wrenching changes that he went through after his affair were life-altering at a level I haven't seen before. He would never cheat again. He couldn't put himself through it. I can relate to this, having been through a similar process with my H. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 My fathers OW who then became his wife felt it was all fair. Now my father has dumped her upfor his new OW let's just say she doesn't find it fair any longer. Yes its rationalization and seems to me it's all good as long as you get what you want. This is true!! My H's xW considered all to be fair when she was the one having an A... but when she was on the receiving end, she was less in favour... I guess one's view is shaped by one's perspective? Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 And in some cases the married couple - former AP - truly love one another and have a wonderful marriage. Sometimes a marriage is not wonderful, not even good, but is broken. And sometimes someone who is in that broken marriage doesn't take the correct steps and divorce, and then look for a new partner. Instead they find someone new while still in the broken marriage. It's unfortunate for all concerned that the timing is not better, but it does happen sometimes. I wish this forum and a "like" button. I find myself "liking" many of your posts, Silk. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I saw her humor and with her happyface. I just told myself: SG Your reeeching.. It's a fair cop guv!! Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Obviously not. Hence, the lying and sneaking around like a little boy trying to get away with misbehaving is NEVER the way to go. The only one it's "open" to is the one who knows about the deceit. What a 5h!tty way to handle the situation. You disagree in principle with the behaviour but you must concede that plenty of marriages with begin 'closed' are opened up to other parties by one or both spouses. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 You disagree in principle with the behaviour but you must concede that plenty of marriages with begin 'closed' are opened up to other parties by one or both spouses. It's called cheating. It's NOT an "open marriage." An open marriage, by definition, is a marriage wherein the parties have agreed that they are free to have sex with others. There's no agreement by the parties when someone is lying and slithering around. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It's called cheating. It's NOT an "open marriage." An open marriage, by definition, is a marriage wherein the parties have agreed that they are free to have sex with others. There's no agreement by the parties when someone is lying and slithering around. I did not say it was an Open Marriage. I said it was not Closed. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I did not say it was an Open Marriage. I said it was not Closed. Oh, boy. Link to post Share on other sites
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