Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 If everyone would remember some of these posts (as bolded), we wouldn't be going round and round on the merry-go-round here .. And with the horses being excuses. But DIC, all you've highlighted in your post is YOUR truth. It is not THE truth, and it's not MY truth.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Tsk, tsk.... It's not a fact that NOBODY celebrates those M's, just some people. And you're right, the people in those M's love their spouses madly and don't care about what other people think... Not because they got what they wanted, but because they love their spouse. Oh, so there is only "love" when a M is a result of an A? Good gawd.
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Maybe so. But what is the script for M's after an A, period? Are they really that happy? Does the W REALLY believe he won't cheat again? She investigates, she verifies and she installs a keylogger or voice activated recorder in his car. At least the new MP knows he chose her because he WANTED her. Not because he didn't want to have to pay child support or give up half of his retirement. Men are so cheap at times. Funny that statistics only matter to those that have been betrayed. I don't know about you, but I make my own destiny. Have a great night! Just like with marriages between AP's, recovered marriages are unique. Statistics are just statistics, and do not necessarily mean anything about YOUR marriage or MY marriage (and they don't only matter to betrayed, nor do they matter to many betrayed)... Many marriages between AP's are completely successful and happy - and many fail. Many recovered marriages are not recovered at all, instead they are marriages in name only and full of constant fear. Many are not. And though in the early days after an affair there will be checking and verification, that does not continue if the marriage is truly recovered. I cannot speak for your marriage, as I am not in it. Since you say it is excellent, I believe you and hope for continued happiness for you. Mine is also excellent. Oh... and yes, I REALLY KNOW he will not cheat again.
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 NID's post said it all, and very simply. Everything else is just excuses. The marriage unit is closed. Not very 'closed' is it? When one or both parties invite someone else to be a part of their unit. Sometimes several times over... I understand your opinion, but it is not fact.
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Oh, so there is only "love" when a M is a result of an A? Good gawd. BB didn't say that, nor anything close to that.
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Oh... and yes, I REALLY KNOW he will not cheat again. How? How can we know with 100% certainty how someone will or won't react to future events? All the while a person is still breathing it's possible they could surprise us - and themselves!
desertIslandCactus Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Not very 'closed' is it? When one or both parties invite someone else to be a part of their unit. Sometimes several times over... I understand your opinion, but it is not fact. The M covenant is closed. R. Morris whittled into my storage facility and took valuables. Was I a bad steward of what was mine: Yes. Was he a thief: Yes. If my valuables grew legs and approached him, he still would have bore the responsibility for taking what was not his to take.
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 So I guess, I am not a "cookie-cutter conservative" after all, huh? . Don't feel like a @$$ for assuming on my behalf, please. It is nor necessary:p! I did not "assume." I came to a conclusion based upon your many threads here on LS, plenty of which appear on the "political" forum. If you are expressing yourself honestly, I think you've presented a reasonable picture of where you stand on the "traditional / conventional / conservative" continuum - excepting with regards to the institution of marriage, evidently. Anyway, I am not sure why you brought my politics up...not sure why that is pertinent? Because in one of your posts, you labelled people with socio/political labels, based upon how they respond to the results of EMA's: So that, a BS who "moves mountains" to fix he/his marriage and succeeds he/she is applauded by those, say. who are more traditional/conventional/conservative and the like but an AP who "moves mountains" to be with the married partner is frowned upon by the same. I find your conviction that somehow you are the person in charge of defining the mundane expression, "All's fair in love and war," and determining who does or does not actually understand it, amusing!
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 How? How can we know with 100% certainty how someone will or won't react to future events? All the while a person is still breathing it's possible they could surprise us - and themselves! Normally I wouldn't say I KNOW anything about anyone (including myself). I would say I believe such and so. However, this is indeed different. I really do know he would never cheat again. The kind of gut-wrenching changes that he went through after his affair were life-altering at a level I haven't seen before. He would never cheat again. He couldn't put himself through it.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I find your conviction that somehow you are the person in charge of defining the mundane expression, "All's fair in love and war," and determining who does or does not actually understand it, amusing!Interestingly, I found the very same thing.
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 NID's post said it all, and very simply. Everything else is just excuses. The marriage unit is closed. DIC I understand your thinking and where the closed marriage concept comes from but the fact is......when an affair goes on someone opened that door, the marriage is no longer closed.
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 BB didn't say that, nor anything close to that. You are right........I didn't say that. Frankly it makes me uncomfortable this talk about BB.
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Can I ask - do you think you could applaud and celebrate a successful marriage whereby one or both parties were committed to another when they met? Can it be celebrated if an affair ensued? And marriages that possibly should never have been are left behind as a result? Yes. I would still regret that the relationship had to happen under a cover of deceit and that much pain to other parties had to result from it. I would NOT "applaud and celebrate" such a "successful marriage" if the people involved in it did not regret the deceit and hurt they caused, themselves. If they self-righteously gloated and belittled the other parties, I would not see their union as "successful," but rather as a likely get-together of two selfish, careless people which was probably going to fall by the wayside as soon as one or the other of them encountered another attractive and "irresistible" candidate for infidelity.
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The reason nobody celebrates marriages that came from affairs is because they involved ending someone else's happy ending. Oh come now. Many marriages are the result of affairs. And many people attend those weddings and celebrate the marriage and toast to the happiness of the bride and groom. I know I have and most probably will again.
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 You are right........I didn't say that. Frankly it makes me uncomfortable this talk about BB. Sorry, I meant BeachBetty...
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Yes. I would still regret that the relationship had to happen under a cover of deceit and that much pain to other parties had to result from it. I would NOT "applaud and celebrate" such a "successful marriage" if the people involved in it did not regret the deceit and hurt they caused, themselves. If they self-righteously gloated and belittled the other parties, I would not see their union as "successful," but rather as a likely get-together of two selfish, careless people which was probably going to fall by the wayside as soon as one or the other of them encountered another attractive and "irresistible" candidate for infidelity. That all makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for clarifying.
Owl Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 DIC I understand your thinking and where the closed marriage concept comes from but the fact is......when an affair goes on someone opened that door, the marriage is no longer closed. So...to get back closer towards the original "All is fair in love and war" concept...does that mean that its ok for someone from the outside to push to open that door? Or should they respect that the door is closed? Or is the expectation that since the door wasn't locked, dead-bolted, security sealed and guarded with camera activated, motion-activated laser devices, the door was really meant to be opened by anyone who felt like it? This whole "all is fair" concept to me is actually all about rationalization of your actions. The people who typically tout it are doing so to justify actions that most outsiders would view as reprehensible.
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Sorry, I meant BeachBetty... Oppps...........my bad. lol Oh well never mind then.
BB07 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 So...to get back closer towards the original "All is fair in love and war" concept...does that mean that its ok for someone from the outside to push to open that door? Or should they respect that the door is closed? Or is the expectation that since the door wasn't locked, dead-bolted, security sealed and guarded with camera activated, motion-activated laser devices, the door was really meant to be opened by anyone who felt like it? This whole "all is fair" concept to me is actually all about rationalization of your actions. The people who typically tout it are doing so to justify actions that most outsiders would view as reprehensible. The door should be respected and left shut. When MP cracks that door, the AP rationalizes. Below is how I rationalized it. In my case.......even though I had false information (that he was separated), I told myself that the marriage was a mistake and since it was so short (6 months) that he had quickly realized his mistake and was doing the right thing (by leaving) and rectifying it quickly. Of course now that I know that the information he gave me that allowed me to make those rationalizations was false but still.......it's on me.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 BB didn't say that, nor anything close to that. But she makes sweeping generalizations about the script of a M trying to survive an A while, at the same time, making the sweeping generalization that a M as a result of an A is thus: "And you're right, the people in those M's (meaning as a result of an A) love their spouses madly and don't care about what other people think... Not because they got what they wanted, but because they love their spouse." Yeah. It couldn't POSSIBLY be because in SOME cases a cheater can't ever be satisfied, so continually searches for that "high" one gets from a new R. Of course, if someone is unlucky enough to end up with a broken person such as this, they are going to feel EXTREMELY loved - for awhile.
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Yeah. It couldn't POSSIBLY be because in SOME cases a cheater can't ever be satisfied, so continually searches for that "high" one gets from a new R. Of course, if someone is unlucky enough to end up with a broken person such as this, they are going to feel EXTREMELY loved - for awhile. And in some cases the married couple - former AP - truly love one another and have a wonderful marriage. Sometimes a marriage is not wonderful, not even good, but is broken. And sometimes someone who is in that broken marriage doesn't take the correct steps and divorce, and then look for a new partner. Instead they find someone new while still in the broken marriage. It's unfortunate for all concerned that the timing is not better, but it does happen sometimes.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 And in some cases the married couple - former AP - truly love one another and have a wonderful marriage. My point exactly. And sometimes, as you should know, a former WS and BS can have a wonderful marriage as well. It's funny how people who so often use the term "cookie cutter" have their own version of it. Sometimes a marriage is not wonderful, not even good, but is broken. And sometimes someone who is in that broken marriage doesn't take the correct steps and divorce, and then look for a new partner. Instead they find someone new while still in the broken marriage. It's unfortunate for all concerned that the timing is not better, but it does happen sometimes.And lying and skulking about is NEVER the answer.
silktricks Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 My point exactly. And sometimes, as you should know, a former WS and BS can have a wonderful marriage as well. It's funny how people who so often use the term "cookie cutter" have their own version of it. BeachBetty sounds like she is in a marriage that came about as an eventual result of an affair. She is understandably (to my mind) sensitive about the idea that an affair can never lead to a good marriage. Just as I am sensitive to the idea that a recovered marriage must be of necessity unhappy and suspicious. And lying and skulking about is NEVER the answer. Well, I guess I am going to have to disagree with you. It's not the best answer, or the preferred answer, but it is an answer. And sometimes in some circumstances people feel it is their only answer. I don't agree with them, but then I don't agree with a lot of people...
Silly_Girl Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Well, I guess I am going to have to disagree with you. It's not the best answer, or the preferred answer, but it is an answer. And sometimes in some circumstances people feel it is their only answer. I don't agree with them, but then I don't agree with a lot of people... Perfect response.
donnamaybe Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 BeachBetty sounds like she is in a marriage that came about as an eventual result of an affair. She is understandably (to my mind) sensitive about the idea that an affair can never lead to a good marriage. Just as I am sensitive to the idea that a recovered marriage must be of necessity unhappy and suspicious.Yup, but should people call her "bitter" over it? No. Well, I guess I am going to have to disagree with you. It's not the best answer, or the preferred answer, but it is an answer. And sometimes in some circumstances people feel it is their only answer. I don't agree with them, but then I don't agree with a lot of people... Of course it is AN answer, but an answer at the expense of others is cowardly and selfish.
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