When is a cheater no longer a cheater?

[pureinheart]

If it is the truth that we carry the label of "whatever" for life, then we all are liars and cheaters, as we have all lied or cheated in some form in the past.

[Snowflower]

If it is the truth that we carry the label of "whatever" for life, then we all are liars and cheaters, as we have all lied or cheated in some form in the past.

 

For once, I agree with you, PIH! Everyone has lied or cheated in some way in their life.

 

And yes, I cheated on a boyfriend back in the day. He deserved it after hitting me and the relationship was on its way out anyway. Guess I'm a cheater for life. I've told a few lies too...although I do try to be as good of person as I can be and try not to lie.

 

Anyone who says that they never have done either would at least be lying...

[pureinheart]

For once, I agree with you, PIH! Everyone has lied or cheated in some way in their life.

 

And yes, I cheated on a boyfriend back in the day. He deserved it after hitting me and the relationship was on its way out anyway. Guess I'm a cheater for life. I've told a few lies too...although I do try to be as good of person as I can be and try not to lie.

 

Anyone who says that they never have done either would at least be lying...

 

Wow, I am so sorry that happened to you SF, laying hands on a woman, that is truly a cowardly act, I am really glad you got out!!!!!

[Silly_Girl]

Hi SG!

 

Personally I think we are all capable of becoming addicted to anything, becoming a "cheater", and much, much more. With that I would say live the best you can with what you have...live the best you can and do the best you can and don't trip, nor put all of your faith in man. "Man" will let you down everytime, and if we allow fear that he/she will cheat, use drugs or drink (insert fear), we will subconsciously fulfill that "fear". I think fear will keep us from our destiny and happiness.

 

Speaking specifically to the EMA's: those that ended up with AP and those that reconciled, I think the chances of re-visiting the past is unlikely IF the core issues were dealt with, the root issues.

 

Whatever is meant to be will be, we cannot change that, but we can change how we react.

 

Love this. Thanks Pure!

[Silly_Girl]

I find this topic to come up with OPs that are now in "proper" relationships with their former AP. Its a constant worry for them. Its similar to the "Why demonize the married person" thread title (one I admit I once started myself) in wondering why people will forever related that person with the cheating and the usually poor behavior that accompanied it.

 

Just like the former BS has to accept that their marriage has forever changed with the new knowledge of who their partner really is (should they stay married), the former OP needs to accept that their SO is a person that has the potential to cheat on them too.

 

Relapses are possible and somewhat common until they figure out why they are doing it.

 

But, yes, the cheater label will stay with that person for life. They will never forget it themselves. They will tell the story to friends and family when its appropriate - whether they help a friend that's cheating or try to warn a friend from doing so. They will tell that story as it is now part of who they are.

 

Its evidenced by people even in this thread. They might not be cheating at the moment, but they remember the time when they did. And its a sobering reminder of what they are capable of. It doesn't mean that future partners should be consumed with worrying about it. But it does mean that they shouldn't be in denial about the possibility of it happening.

 

NID I can assure you that I am not the least bit worried in respect of my boyfriend. That's a massive assumption. Or maybe he's unusual in the way he has reacted to the situation and the ways in which he's changed...

 

As for denial, I don't think anyone in any relationship with anyone should close their mind to the potential threat of infidelity. On the part of either party.

[neveragain1]

LD, some probably compare the BS to the victimized child and that is why there is the comparison being a child molester and a cheater.

 

IMO, it is ludicrous to even compare the two and trivializes the horror of child molestation.

 

thats because you didn't read it right.

 

wasn't comparing child molestation to cheaters. was talking about the idea that people can change. that should apply to everyone, no?

 

as far as comparing things, the comparison to alcoholism, or reference, was made by the OP.

[neveragain1]

For once, I agree with you, PIH! Everyone has lied or cheated in some way in their life.

 

lied? yes. everyone has at the very least told a little "white" lie.

 

cheated. nope

 

Anyone who says that they never have done either would at least be lying...

 

nope, never cheated on anyone, never will. so you lied about lying:)

[Snowflower]

lied? yes. everyone has at the very least told a little "white" lie.

 

cheated. nope

 

 

 

nope, never cheated on anyone, never will. so you lied about lying:)

 

Whoa, nice shooting "dex"

 

I said 'either' cheated or lied...not just cheated. Just to clarify.

[neveragain1]

Whoa, nice shooting "dex"

 

I said 'either' cheated or lied...not just cheated. Just to clarify.

 

ok, kinda looked like you were lumping them both together.

[Snowflower]

ok, kinda looked like you were lumping them both together.

Reading back I can see how it could kind of look like that. It's hard to sometimes convey in writing what is meant. Thanks!

[NoIDidn't]

NID I can assure you that I am not the least bit worried in respect of my boyfriend. That's a massive assumption. Or maybe he's unusual in the way he has reacted to the situation and the ways in which he's changed...

 

As for denial, I don't think anyone in any relationship with anyone should close their mind to the potential threat of infidelity. On the part of either party.

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't intend to imply that it was a constant worry for you. It was a general statement. That I stand by, as evidenced by the second paragraph in the quote.

 

When people are in relationships with someone they know has cheated in the past, whether they were the OP to that person or not, the non-cheating partner tends to not ever discount the possibility that the person might cheat on them.

 

But I do believe that there is a level of denial built into Rs between MPs and OPs that get together following an A. During the A, the OP is filled with "you're perfect", "no one would ever cheat on you", "I'd never have cheated if I was with you" and so on. But maybe the word isn't denial, but false or over-confidence in the fact that they themselves will keep their partner from cheating - be it with better or more sex, less nagging, a smaller waistline or whatever.

 

I guess the answer to the question when is a cheater no longer a cheater is when someone trusts them enough to believe it. Otherwise, I think they are cheaters for life - whether actively cheating or not. I might not treat them like cheaters, but there is a mindset that cheaters has that doesn't seem to go away - especially if they don't think there is anything wrong with it.

[Silly_Girl]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't intend to imply that it was a constant worry for you. It was a general statement. That I stand by, as evidenced by the second paragraph in the quote.

 

When people are in relationships with someone they know has cheated in the past, whether they were the OP to that person or not, the non-cheating partner tends to not ever discount the possibility that the person might cheat on them.

 

But I do believe that there is a level of denial built into Rs between MPs and OPs that get together following an A. During the A, the OP is filled with "you're perfect", "no one would ever cheat on you", "I'd never have cheated if I was with you" and so on. But maybe the word isn't denial, but false or over-confidence in the fact that they themselves will keep their partner from cheating - be it with better or more sex, less nagging, a smaller waistline or whatever.

 

This is the opposite to my approach and experience. I have no rose-tinted glasses. I firmly believe that every successful relationship (of any sort, not just romantic) requires a good deal of work. My boyfriend clearly, in a specific set of circumstances, is capable of lying and cheating. I'm not blind to that. But we have a different way of dealing with things.

 

He knew that due to my experience (with him and with my ex) my reaction to lying or withholding would be zero tolerance. And he REVELS in it. He and his wife brushed everything under the carpet. Very much 'fake it 'till you make it'. I'm the total opposite and believe that dealing with shyte as it happens prevents things getting out of control.

 

The man that used to leave his phone on silent and kept it buried in his pocket/bag now leaves it lying around, we use each others phones from time to time, each others laptops... And when a 'wife-issue' comes up we discuss it upfront. We have a very different dynamic to them. That's possibly the best we can do. Honesty and openness is paramount to me. If we fail on trust issues despite our efforts then so be it. But my confidence is not borne out of some misplaced faith in Mr Perfect.

[pureinheart]

lied? yes. everyone has at the very least told a little "white" lie.

 

cheated. nope

 

 

 

nope, never cheated on anyone, never will. so you lied about lying:)

 

So, you've never cheated on anything? Wow, I find that extremely hard to believe...and I suppose you have only told a "little white lie" in your entire life.

 

I guess delusions aren't an issue either:rolleyes:

[neveragain1]

So, you've never cheated on anything?

 

 

unless you are referring to something like cheating at a game when I was a kid, no.

 

Never cheated on taxes, on people, etc.

 

 

Wow, I find that extremely hard to believe

 

thats because you desperately want to believe that others are like you which might make you feel better about cheating yourself.

 

 

...and I suppose you have only told a "little white lie" in your entire life.

 

pretty much

 

 

I guess delusions aren't an issue either:rolleyes:

 

only for you

[ladydesigner]

 

thats because you desperately want to believe that others are like you which might make you feel better about cheating yourself.

 

See the bolded would probably not apply to me at all and I agree with PIH's post. You see I am not concerned whether there are people like me (a cheater) out there and knowing that there are does not make me feel better or worse. It just is.

[neveragain1]

See the bolded would probably not apply to me at all and I agree with PIH's post. You see I am not concerned whether there are people like me (a cheater) out there and knowing that there are does not make me feel better or worse. It just is.

 

you can agree with PIH all you want. Still doesn't change the fact, other than pre-adolescent immaturity, that some of us haven't cheated, whether it be on someone or in other aspects of life once childish things were put away long ago.

[ladydesigner]

you can agree with PIH all you want. Still doesn't change the fact, other than pre-adolescent immaturity, that some of us haven't cheated, whether it be on someone or in other aspects of life once childish things were put away long ago.

 

Well my A was beyond the pre-adolescent immaturity. It was a choice, I made it. I am an adult and am dealing with the repercussions of an A. The only choice I have is to learn from this and be a better person. That's all we can do as ex cheats I'm not going to condemn myself forever. Life is not meant to be lived that way.

[OWoman]

This is the opposite to my approach and experience. I have no rose-tinted glasses. I firmly believe that every successful relationship (of any sort, not just romantic) requires a good deal of work. My boyfriend clearly, in a specific set of circumstances, is capable of lying and cheating. I'm not blind to that. But we have a different way of dealing with things.

 

He knew that due to my experience (with him and with my ex) my reaction to lying or withholding would be zero tolerance. And he REVELS in it. He and his wife brushed everything under the carpet. Very much 'fake it 'till you make it'. I'm the total opposite and believe that dealing with shyte as it happens prevents things getting out of control.

 

The man that used to leave his phone on silent and kept it buried in his pocket/bag now leaves it lying around, we use each others phones from time to time, each others laptops... And when a 'wife-issue' comes up we discuss it upfront. We have a very different dynamic to them. That's possibly the best we can do. Honesty and openness is paramount to me. If we fail on trust issues despite our efforts then so be it. But my confidence is not borne out of some misplaced faith in Mr Perfect.

 

Agree with this completely. I don't know where the perception that fAPs live a life of denial in their post-A Rs comes from - it's certainly not my experience, nor that of any fAPs that I know.

[neveragain1]

Well my A was beyond the pre-adolescent immaturity. It was a choice, I made it. I am an adult and am dealing with the repercussions of an A. The only choice I have is to learn from this and be a better person. That's all we can do as ex cheats I'm not going to condemn myself forever. Life is not meant to be lived that way.

 

not saying you should condemn yourself forever. your cheating would be for someone else to decide, if they know, if they can handle the facts and maintain a relationship with you.

 

the conversation to which you replied had to do with SG not believing that there are people out there that have not cheated during their adult life, whether it be in a relationship, on taxes, or on a board game.

 

and I'm telling you that there are people out there that haven't. me, case in point.

[jthorne]

The man that used to leave his phone on silent and kept it buried in his pocket/bag now leaves it lying around, we use each others phones from time to time, each others laptops... And when a 'wife-issue' comes up we discuss it upfront. We have a very different dynamic to them. That's possibly the best we can do. Honesty and openness is paramount to me. If we fail on trust issues despite our efforts then so be it. But my confidence is not borne out of some misplaced faith in Mr Perfect.

I think it's really sad that something so common among regular relationships, such as leaving a phone out, is seen as a milestone by an AP. The fact that the AP is STILL an OW speaks to the fact that he really hasn't changed that much.

[NoIDidn't]

This is the opposite to my approach and experience. I have no rose-tinted glasses. I firmly believe that every successful relationship (of any sort, not just romantic) requires a good deal of work. My boyfriend clearly, in a specific set of circumstances, is capable of lying and cheating. I'm not blind to that. But we have a different way of dealing with things.

 

He knew that due to my experience (with him and with my ex) my reaction to lying or withholding would be zero tolerance. And he REVELS in it. He and his wife brushed everything under the carpet. Very much 'fake it 'till you make it'. I'm the total opposite and believe that dealing with shyte as it happens prevents things getting out of control.

 

The man that used to leave his phone on silent and kept it buried in his pocket/bag now leaves it lying around, we use each others phones from time to time, each others laptops... And when a 'wife-issue' comes up we discuss it upfront. We have a very different dynamic to them. That's possibly the best we can do. Honesty and openness is paramount to me. If we fail on trust issues despite our efforts then so be it. But my confidence is not borne out of some misplaced faith in Mr Perfect.

 

I understand what you are saying. I am very much the same way. I don't brush anything under the carpet, ever. My H was from a family that did and he hated that about growing up. So I certainly understand why your BF revels in it with you. My H does the same.

 

But I didn't say anything about your BF being Mr. Perfect. I addressed the fact that many an OW is filled with stories of how they are Mrs Perfect and that the former MM would never cheat on them - often said from his own mouth. It creates false confidence in some. If you don't fall into the category of people that are prone to false confidence and walking around in denial of certain facts of the people they are dealing with and about themselves, then that wouldn't apply to you.

 

What I said is below. It refers to the OP, not the MP.

 

But I do believe that there is a level of denial built into Rs between MPs and OPs that get together following an A. During the A, the OP is filled with "you're perfect", "no one would ever cheat on you", "I'd never have cheated if I was with you" and so on. But maybe the word isn't denial, but false or over-confidence in the fact that they themselves will keep their partner from cheating - be it with better or more sex, less nagging, a smaller waistline or whatever.

[whichwayisup]

Just curious as to whether a cheater can ever be an ex-cheater in the way an alcoholic may become an ex-alcoholic or whether the consensus of the board is simply the old leopard/spots issue and even if someone has been faithful and true for 30, 40 or 50 years, if they once cheated they shall be spoken of as a cheater for the rest of their life.

 

I haven't read the whole thread so if what I'm going to say has been said already..Whoops! Though, it's my thoughts on this. Not sure if I'm right or wrong, doesn't matter..

 

Serial cheaters, there's more going on then just choosing to cheat. There are underlying issues. Major therapy has to happen, a desire to want to get better and want to be faithful, to fix oneself. If that doesn't happen, then once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

For the person who has cheated once during their marriage. I believe people can learn from their mistakes and choose never to do it again. For those, it's a choice.. It's selfish. And they know it too. But, if someone suffers their consquences and has an understanding and is affected by the fallout, it is possible to not cheat again.

 

Comparing a cheater to an addict/alcoholic only works if the person is a serial cheater.

[NoIDidn't]

 

Comparing a cheater to an addict/alcoholic only works if the person is a serial cheater.

 

I really agree with this. I said previously in this thread that cheating involves a mindset. Serial cheaters have it in spades as if its a personality trait or something.

 

But, I'm starting to agree with Lizzie on cheating and men (no offense meant, fellas - I know this is a HUGE generalization). I think a serial cheat is born every time that "only time cheating" becomes "first time cheating". KWIM?

[Silly_Girl]

I think it's really sad that something so common among regular relationships, such as leaving a phone out, is seen as a milestone by an AP. The fact that the AP is STILL an OW speaks to the fact that he really hasn't changed that much.

 

It is a milestone. In our relationship. I dated someone who was fiercely private of that stuff. And I'm not. I appreciate the openness. Need it. I was simply demonstrating small ways in which the man in MY life is different to how he was when he was in that destructive relationship.

 

Naturally I'd not expect you to be anything BUT sarcastic. You don't want someone to be happy with someone they met whilst one party was married.

[Silly_Girl]

But I didn't say anything about your BF being Mr. Perfect. I addressed the fact that many an OW is filled with stories of how they are Mrs Perfect and that the former MM would never cheat on them - often said from his own mouth. It creates false confidence in some. If you don't fall into the category of people that are prone to false confidence and walking around in denial of certain facts of the people they are dealing with and about themselves, then that wouldn't apply to you.

 

What I said is below. It refers to the OP, not the MP.

 

I getcha. Yes. But it's okay for me. I AM perfect :laugh:

 

Just kidding. That one scares me actually. I have seen one poster here (maybe as many as three) who were so cutting and cruel about the MM's wife... They really saw themselves as more than a cut above the 'competition' and so yes, they would probably go in to a future R with MM never considering for one second that any infidelity could occur in THEIR life because they're just such an amazing catch who gives their MM everything he needs....