Define rOW...good or bad?

[findingnemo]

I have been reading old threads to see if some of my questions have already been addressed. While doing so, I keep coming across the Reformed OW concept and I'm a bit confused:confused:. In some posts, it sounds like a positive thing. In others, it sounds like a derogatory description.

 

Question: What does the term Reformed OW mean to you? Is it a positive thing or pretense? And to fOWs, would you call yourself a rOW? Why reform?

[desertIslandCactus]

Reformed OW .. or I consider her repentant OW, is a good thing .. It means she knows she has made a mistake, has stopped it - and is going on with her life.

 

Sometimes our mistakes make us better people - because I would not do it again.

[Silly_Girl]

I think the concept of rOW is misleading. If you make decisions you regret then make amends with your life and move on.

 

I think here on LS it's used as a derogatory term because there are some posters who are labelled (by themselves or others) as rOW and seem to castigate those in a position they were previously in, and can sometimes show remarkably little empathy or compassion and sometimes even seem nasty.

 

That attitude concerns me and often advice is not as balanced as it might be. In fact, often the BSs here offer a more rounded and empathetic viewpoint than those with first-hand experience of the OPs predicament.

 

I don't think the term rOW is used accurately on the board.

[donnamaybe]

I have seen many instances where a prior OW has explained how her experience has affected her view on A's in a very respectful manner, yet she was descended upon by some who shot phrases at her like "well your MM might not have cared about you but mine loves me. You're just bitter." Uh, yeah.

[Woggle]

It's a good thing when somebody turns their life around and comes to their senses. I look at them in the same way I look at reformed addicts.

[BenThereDunThat]

I guess you could classify me as a rOW. It's been 5 years and I'm still extremely embarrassed that I got myself in such a stupid situation. I've forgiven myself but I still cringe over the thought of it.

 

I can't post here anymore because of my own anger at myself. I just can't be compassionate like I should. I don't judge but what I have to say just comes out wrong and bitter.

 

So I silently cheer certain people on from the anonymous sidelines.

[desertIslandCactus]

I guess you could classify me as a rOW. It's been 5 years and I'm still extremely embarrassed that I got myself in such a stupid situation. I've forgiven myself but I still cringe over the thought of it.

 

I can't post here anymore because of my own anger at myself. I just can't be compassionate like I should. I don't judge but what I have to say just comes out wrong and bitter.

 

So I silently cheer certain people on from the anonymous sidelines.

 

Share what you know and don't be afraid to speak out. It can be very helpful to others.

 

The enemy would love for us to be stifled.

[tami-chan]

Silly_Girl is right. Here on LS, the term "reformed OW" carries with it a negative vibe ONLY because many treat the OWs worse than some of the BSs themselves! You would think they would be more sympathetic and understanding but they are not. Most are so full of themselves. All have left their MMs with their dignity intact and have moved on to bigger, better things....riiight~~~

 

While I don't care for their ways much, I think,I understand where they are coming from. Having been there, having gone through the pain of being an OW, they want to give "tough love" to the current OWs-to put sense into the OW's head, to help realize there is a "better" way, etc.etc. The problem is there are other OWs who are clear in what they want and it is contrary to the "reformed" OWs'--and here lies the problem, the rOWs refuse to respect that the person is an adult and has made a decision for herself. You know, they do not have to respect the person, they only have to respect that the person is an adult and is capable of making her own decision.

 

That said, many members in LS celebrate all former OWs ( me, included) who are happy in their chosen paths.

[findingnemo]

Reformed OW .. or I consider her repentant OW, is a good thing .. It means she knows she has made a mistake, has stopped it - and is going on with her life.

 

Sometimes our mistakes make us better people - because I would not do it again.

 

DIC, I learned from my mistake all right. NEVER EVER EVER AGAIN!!

[desertIslandCactus]

DIC, I learned from my mistake all right. NEVER EVER EVER AGAIN!!

 

I agree. ..

[findingnemo]

I think the concept of rOW is misleading. If you make decisions you regret then make amends with your life and move on.

 

I think here on LS it's used as a derogatory term because there are some posters who are labelled (by themselves or others) as rOW and seem to castigate those in a position they were previously in, and can sometimes show remarkably little empathy or compassion and sometimes even seem nasty.

 

That attitude concerns me and often advice is not as balanced as it might be. In fact, often the BSs here offer a more rounded and empathetic viewpoint than those with first-hand experience of the OPs predicament.

 

I don't think the term rOW is used accurately on the board.

 

 

Yeah...I know the type. I have a relative ("S") who in my view is the biggest hypocrite this side of the Pyramids. She was an OW for over 10 years with the same MM. A few months ago, I watched in shock as "S" under the guise of "tough love" told her younger sister that "..it is sick to desire a MM. You should pray and hope that God stops you from going down the devil's path"...What a load of crap!!!

 

I have seen many instances where a prior OW has explained how her experience has affected her view on A's in a very respectful manner, yet she was descended upon by some who shot phrases at her like "well your MM might not have cared about you but mine loves me. You're just bitter." Uh, yeah.

 

There is always the odd comment coming out of left field, huh?

 

It's a good thing when somebody turns their life around and comes to their senses. I look at them in the same way I look at reformed addicts.

 

Reformed addicts? I wonder, can being an OW really be addictive in of itself?

 

I guess you could classify me as a rOW. It's been 5 years and I'm still extremely embarrassed that I got myself in such a stupid situation. I've forgiven myself but I still cringe over the thought of it.

 

I can't post here anymore because of my own anger at myself. I just can't be compassionate like I should. I don't judge but what I have to say just comes out wrong and bitter.

 

So I silently cheer certain people on from the anonymous sidelines.

 

BTDT, you and I are in the same sitch and I post. I am not mad at myself anymore - it has been over 7 years and since I ended the A, I came out of it feeling a little in control. Hang on...I am learning so much on LS. Apparently, I am in an EA now and so may still be an OW? Hmmm...no way.:mad: Don't be angry at yourself any more. Why should you be? It's over.

 

So for others out there, why reform? Was it the negative feelings associated with being second best? Were you fed up of being passed over for the silliest things or for having a "phantom" lover that you couldn't even admit to having? What was so bad for you that you "reformed"?

 

(I know there are OWs who do this by choice but those take on another title in my mind - Mistresses).

[woinlove]

I wouldn't call myself reformed, as the word just isn't one I use for myself or others. Actually I try to stay away from any labels except for the ones everyone uses for convenience and others feel comfortable with.

 

But I don't want to be an OW again - mainly because how I treat others and impact on others is more important to me than it used to be. In hindsight, I now see how I rationalized a lot during my OW days (he was the one lying, not me, I didn't know her, what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her, etc.) I came here wondering if it really would be so bad to give in again to an attraction to a MM in a supposedly closed M. The pain of OW, as well as BS, on this forum opened my eyes and made my decision an easy one.

[BenThereDunThat]

Share what you know and don't be afraid to speak out. It can be very helpful to others.

 

The enemy would love for us to be stifled.

 

What I know is the reality of my personal situation that I see repeated here over and over again. And such good advice is given by people like you who are so much better at responding than me.

 

I start to respond and get so emotional that I have to delete, delete, delete and let it go.

 

I am so glad I was able to come here at the time though. If I were to see someone who wasn't getting good responses and I thought I could help, I would jump in.

[BenThereDunThat]

BTDT, you and I are in the same sitch and I post. I am not mad at myself anymore - it has been over 7 years and since I ended the A, I came out of it feeling a little in control. Hang on...I am learning so much on LS. Apparently, I am in an EA now and so may still be an OW? Hmmm...no way.:mad: Don't be angry at yourself any more. Why should you be? It's over.

 

Just for clarity's sake - when I call myself a rOW, I mean that I'm no longer seeing the MM (shudder). Reformed as in no longer. That's what we're talking about, right?

 

See....I get too confused to participate anymore.

[woinlove]

BenThereDunThat, I hope you find the compassion soon to completely let go of the anger, hurt and bad feelings associated with your past actions. Sounds like that is all in the past and you should give yourself credit for living the way you want to live now. Sometimes it can be difficult showing ourselves the compassion and kindness we try to extend to others, but once we learn the lessons we want or need to learn, there is so much more to be gained by being kind with ourselves. Even while learning, we can be kind, while still being honest with ourselves.

[BenThereDunThat]

BenThereDunThat, I hope you find the compassion soon to completely let go of the anger, hurt and bad feelings associated with your past actions. Sounds like that is all in the past and you should give yourself credit for living the way you want to live now. Sometimes it can be difficult showing ourselves the compassion and kindness we try to extend to others, but once we learn the lessons we want or need to learn, there is so much more to be gained by being kind with ourselves. Even while learning, we can be kind, while still being honest with ourselves.

 

Thank you, woinlove. All that stuff up there that you wrote is at the heart of a lot of a lot of my "problems" in life in general. Obviously can't go into it here but wanted to acknowledge your post and say thanks.

[fooled once]

I have been reading old threads to see if some of my questions have already been addressed. While doing so, I keep coming across the Reformed OW concept and I'm a bit confused:confused:. In some posts, it sounds like a positive thing. In others, it sounds like a derogatory description.

 

Question: What does the term Reformed OW mean to you? Is it a positive thing or pretense? And to fOWs, would you call yourself a rOW? Why reform?

 

The term popped up here several months ago when a former member(s) decided to use it towards some of the former OW who they didn't like and who they wanted to discredit, as in their opinions means nothing because they are "reformed" and then compared it to born again Christians, etc. It was used a put down, the same way those same former member(s) threw the "bitter" word around at betrayed spouses. One current member even went so far as to start using BBS - for Bitter Betrayed Spouse - again done to discredit and belittle members.

 

Reformed OW .. or I consider her repentant OW, is a good thing .. It means she knows she has made a mistake, has stopped it - and is going on with her life.

 

Sometimes our mistakes make us better people - because I would not do it again.

 

I agree

 

I have seen many instances where a prior OW has explained how her experience has affected her view on A's in a very respectful manner, yet she was descended upon by some who shot phrases at her like "well your MM might not have cared about you but mine loves me. You're just bitter." Uh, yeah.

 

Agree

 

Silly_Girl is right. Here on LS, the term "reformed OW" carries with it a negative vibe ONLY because many treat the OWs worse than some of the BSs themselves! You would think they would be more sympathetic and understanding but they are not. Most are so full of themselves. All have left their MMs with their dignity intact and have moved on to bigger, better things....riiight~~~

 

While I don't care for their ways much, I think,I understand where they are coming from. Having been there, having gone through the pain of being an OW, they want to give "tough love" to the current OWs-to put sense into the OW's head, to help realize there is a "better" way, etc.etc. The problem is there are other OWs who are clear in what they want and it is contrary to the "reformed" OWs'--and here lies the problem, the rOWs refuse to respect that the person is an adult and has made a decision for herself. You know, they do not have to respect the person, they only have to respect that the person is an adult and is capable of making her own decision.

 

That said, many members in LS celebrate all former OWs ( me, included) who are happy in their chosen paths.

 

Care to share with the rest of us who YOU deem a reformed OW? Care to point out where YOU deem that the people you call rOW are "worse" than BS's in their treatment of current OW and where you deem that these rOW are "full of themselves"? Also show us where the rOW refuse to respect that a person is an adult and has made a decision for herself.

 

Finding Nemo - as I said above, there was a group of former (and some still current) members who use this as a derogatory term because they seem to want to discredit the advice they give. Not sure why they feel so threatened by it that they needed to come up with a term to belittle them.

 

Myself - I am a person who was involved with a MM many, many years ago. I was not married and he was separated and living apart from his wife when I met him. As with many OW, promises were made and broken. Needless to say, I moved past that time and met my H and married him and have been happily married for almost 13 years. I am here to share my experiences, to support those who truly want to end the pain of an affair and to offer any advice I can (not just in this section, but in other sections as well).

[trinity1]

The term popped up here several months ago when a former member(s) decided to use it towards some of the former OW who they didn't like and who they wanted to discredit, as in their opinions means nothing because they are "reformed" and then compared it to born again Christians, etc. It was used a put down, the same way those same former member(s) threw the "bitter" word around at betrayed spouses. One current member even went so far as to start using BBS - for Bitter Betrayed Spouse - again done to discredit and belittle members.

 

Fooled Once, your post made me wonder how long this term has been used on Loveshack. I did a search and found many old posts. The oldest one dated all the way back to November 15th 2005, so it seems this terminology has been established here on Loveshack for a long time.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=622795&postcount=8

 

I am not familiar with the term myself, and am new on this forum, so I am trying to get an understanding whether this is indeed a derogatory label or not.

[tami-chan]

Care to share with the rest of us who YOU deem a reformed OW? Care to point out where YOU deem that the people you call rOW are "worse" than BS's in their treatment of current OW and where you deem that these rOW are "full of themselves"? Also show us where the rOW refuse to respect that a person is an adult and has made a decision for herself.

 

I am sure findingnemo already has an idea who these "reformed" OWs are, or at least have an idea. If not, I am sure she will make it her business to know-given that she has come up with all these thoughtful, innocent, truly-just-wanting-to-understand questions/scenarios...one more research would not be too much.

 

or..you can always just go back and re-read your own posts.

[BB07]

I have been labeled with being rOW. I don't care for the label because it's been used in a derogatory way at times.

 

I regret that I was involved in an affair, it was against my beliefs and my moral code but yet I did it anyway. I stumbled upon LS because I still had unresolved issues about it several years later.

 

A lot has happened since I first came here and I'm even more convinced now that it's on my top five list of things I wish I'd never done. However.........with that said, I try to remain compassionate and I hope that sometimes I can help.

[whichwayisup]

I have been labeled with being rOW. I don't care for the label because it's been used in a derogatory way at times.

 

I regret that I was involved in an affair, it was against my beliefs and my moral code but yet I did it anyway. I stumbled upon LS because I still had unresolved issues about it several years later.

 

A lot has happened since I first came here and I'm even more convinced now that it's on my top five list of things I wish I'd never done. However.........with that said, I try to remain compassionate and I hope that sometimes I can help.

 

Nicely put. Reformed isn't and doesn't have to be negative and bible thumpin', cookie cutter advice. I hate that people say that, it's total bunk.

 

There's nothing wrong with offering one's experience or offering advice to leave the A if the OW is hurting and confused. To encourage someone to stay in a place where they are second fiddle and actually ARE feeling second, isn't a healthy or a good thing for anybody.

 

A ROW thinks that EVERY OW should go NC and leave the A. And forget that she ever loved the MM and wanted a life with him.

 

See, your idea of a rOW is different than others. You are talking to the extreme of it. Not ALL rOW are like that. Maybe one or two, but not all. Just look at BB. YOU going to tell me that she fits YOUR description of a rOW? She's got a heart of gold and is helpful, to everybody on here. Not just to OW's but to BS's, MM's as well.

 

Reformed isn't always negative. IT all depends on each persons meaning of the word and there own experiences of 'other' reformed *insert either OW, or smoker, drinker, etc* people in their lives.

 

There are lots of people who make mistakes and acknowledge it, realize the choices they made hurt themselves, as well as others. They regret it, they learn from it, they grow from it.

 

To me, some people around here, it seems, resent it when an OW decides to no longer be an OW and has the strength to walk away. If someone is ashamed or embarrassed to have been an OW, and feel good about themselves that they chose a new and better path, THAT should be good, not be held against them and be told "you are reformed OW and you suck, how dare you leave our nest of OW" Yes, that is extreme, not saying that actually is said, but it is certainly implied, with intention to certain members on here.

 

I think alot is projection goes on, depending on the persons frame of mind. And it IS judging someone, which I thought in here especially, people don't like to be judged or singled out.

[whichwayisup]

I am sure findingnemo already has an idea who these "reformed" OWs are, or at least have an idea. If not, I am sure she will make it her business to know-given that she has come up with all these thoughtful, innocent, truly-just-wanting-to-understand questions/scenarios...one more research would not be too much.

 

or..you can always just go back and re-read your own posts.

 

Reformed/moved on to a happier life. rOW and exOW are more or less the same. A choice made or an affair ended not by choice, still makes BOTH women exOW. Putting the r infront of it is just reason to cause fighting in this place and discredit someone else's advice.

 

It's up to each person, a new poster or an older poster to decide for themselves what advice they want to take. It irks me when I read don't listen to this person because of abc reasons or that person because they are on this side of the fence.

 

If the advice is respectful and honest, coming from a good place, even if harsh or given reality check that needs to be heard, is STILL useful advice and shouldn't be dissed just because others feel it's not up to their par or standards.

 

Just my 3 cents, respectfully.

[Woggle]

Whenever people try to leave a bad situation there are those who try and pull them down back into it. It is a crabs in a barrel kind of mentality. They want others to wallow in misery with them. I know people who stopped abusing drugs and other substances and their old friends resent them for it. When a woman manages to break out of the vicious cycle of drama and heartbreak that comes with the overwhelming majority of affairs people still stuck in it want to pull her down.

[whichwayisup]

Wogs, you just pretty much summed up what I was trying to say but with less words!

[Woggle]

I told you about running into of my exes manhating friends who is now a changed women and apologized to me. I forgave her because I could tell she was truly sincere and she was two years clean and sober and all around seemed like a completely new woman from when I first met her. All her old friends want nothing to do with her because she pulled herself out of the muck. The same concept applies to OW who managed to break free of the cycle of pain and drama.