Define rOW...good or bad?

[pureinheart]

Abuse is against the TOS and it is important to report any incident of abuse when it happens. Abuse should never be tolerated.

 

Having said that I don't think what Spark describes is abuse. For some people any cheating is a deal-breaker and their opinions will get voiced whether they are relevant to the case at hand or not. Things like what was wrong with you or the M that he cheated are also common views that we see on this forum as well. Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions and that mindset is going to come out in posts. These type of comments will be painful and probably not helpful, but one hopes there is also some good advice and posts with understanding and compassion too.

 

Some cases call for nothing but support and compassion because the person is in a bad state and there is really nothing they can do about it except try to feel better. My impression is that in such cases, typically, almost all the posts are supportive. In other cases, the person could actually take some action or decision to put themselves in a better position. In the latter case, there are likely to be differing opinions of what that would be and seeing a mix of perspectives can be useful and can ultimately stimulate the person to find their own path. Sometimes the person really will be best served by undergoing a change in their own perspective. I've seen that happen here.

 

If I remember correctly, Spark referred to her experience as being bashed or priddy close to it.

 

In bold, this is an individual opinion, and needs to also follow the particular guidelines set by the board they are posting on.

 

I don't think we should decide, or the individual should decide when a person needs to take responsibility, if ever. What I deem personal responsibility and what another deems responsible is different. Also, in most cases, people aren't ready and to push someone can be detrimental, no matter how necessary "we" think it is for them to do so.

[Spark1111]

Yeah I post in Dating sometimes and other posters will randomly ask "weren't you an OW?" So I feel the once-an-OW-always-an-OW label over there, but, at this point in my "dating" life, it's relevant, so, I don't really mind. I guess if they were saying it years down the road when I'm trying to date and no longer focused on the fact that I was an OW, I'd be annoyed. Although really I'm not very easily offended online because I realize it's a bunch of anonymous posters.

 

I don't know, for me, once I've been an OW, I will always have been one. It defines me to a certain extent, and all I can do is make the best of it and learn from it. I'm not saying I want to beat myself up about it forever, but it influences who I've been/who I am and who I don't want to be again. I imagine that if I had cheated I would feel the same way. So in that sense the "label" doesn't bother me -- it is what it is. I do believe there are people who are capable and incapable of cheating, and people who are capable and incapable of being an OW. When I read "you never know unless it happens to you"... I kinda cringe. Yeah I didn't expect it to happen and never thought it would, but, I knew what I was doing. I knew it was "wrong" according to my values and just plain common sense, and I did it anyway. I would like to think there are people who live according to their values (because I would like to be like that!!! and am aiming for that) who would never, ever, ever do it no matter what. And then those of us who would. So yeah it does define us to a certain extent, in my view. Maybe my view is messed though, who knows.

 

And you know what? I will always be a BS! For some, they will forever feel victimized as if it wasn't there fault. Some days, I do feel like that.

 

But other days? I loved my H deeply, passionately, and his affair will ALWAYS be a part of our history. And that can still really hurt me.

 

And like you, I cannot unring that bell. Just try to understand, to the best of my ability, what the hell happened to us and to me....

[donnamaybe]

I don't think we should decide, or the individual should decide when a person needs to take responsibility, if ever. What I deem personal responsibility and what another deems responsible is different. Also, in most cases, people aren't ready and to push someone can be detrimental, no matter how necessary "we" think it is for them to do so.

Again, all of this is telling others what the content of their posts should be. NO ONE should be able to tell others what they are allowed to think, and providing they put words to their thoughts in a non-insulting manner, they are free to say what they want.

[silktricks]

I know

 

None of us should ever post again. That way, no one will be offended, and no one will have detrimental advice given.

 

:lmao:

 

Sheezzzzz...

[findingnemo]

I have been reading old threads to see if some of my questions have already been addressed. While doing so, I keep coming across the Reformed OW concept and I'm a bit confused:confused:. In some posts, it sounds like a positive thing. In others, it sounds like a derogatory description.

 

 

Question: What does the term Reformed OW mean to you? Is it a positive thing or pretense? And to fOWs, would you call yourself a rOW? Why reform?

 

 

Hi y'all,

 

This is what I've learned.

 

Reformed? Good word but used as ammunition in the past by a group of former posters. In itself, the word is harmless but stirs up really bad feelings on this forum. For the sake of peace, we should ban any form of labeling of OWs and stick to giving case-specific advice.

 

I think only trinity and I thought we would call ourselves "reformed"... but we are newbies. The word "reformed" means changed, could mean "preachy", could mean anything really. Why reform for those who did? It hurt. It hurt like hell. It hurt so bad that we vowed never again.

 

We began to discuss how to deal with harsh/insulting posts which included derogatory labels such as rOW in its "negative" context. Everybody agrees that some posters are just plain mean and will give advice based upon their circumstances. Some argued that we should call them out and explain to the OP what those particular circumstances are so that if new, the OP doesn't get freaked out even more than they already are. Others argued that the act of warning the OP about some posters only serves to categorize or label them. This has happened in the past ie. rOW. They argue that warnings given in "good faith" actually introduce a bias and could scare off the targeted posters. This would amount to censorship.

 

To get to a conclusion, a couple of posters referred us all to the Terms & Conditions and correctly stated that there is no explicit ban against harsh words or tough love. There is no ban against the use of labels either. That being said, it has been suggested time and time again that if we find a post offending, we should hit the "ALERT US" button or simply ignore it.

 

Now...someone pointed out that threads like this go against the TOS (?) because they go off topic and people start hammering each other. Apart from one post (by a new member who surprisingly knows too much personal info about FooledOnce and Donna), this has been a heated but polite debate. Somebody else pointed out that we need to reach a point when we agree to stop. As the OP, I would like to humbly ask that we stop now. As far as I'm concerned, all has been asked and answered.

[pureinheart]

The whole thread is 'cos those being referred to as rOW don't like it BUT it seems it doesn't contravene the TOS.

 

So the Posters Formally Known As rOW are entitled to dish out tough love, as long as it doesn't break the rules.

 

Those who don't like it can say what they like, as long as it doesn't break the rules.

 

You can't try and control what someone does or doesn't post whilst using the principle 'no one should try and control what someone else posts'.

 

It's like a parent slapping their kid as punishment for the child having slapped another kid....

 

This is really good SG...yes it is like constantly walking the line to continue with negative behavior.

 

What is the big deal concerning labels...if you are you are, I would think it would be something to be proud of. I got sorta blasted by a poster and was speaking in general terms, wasn't even thinking of her. If you don't like the label then change your behavior.

 

May I also ask why it is sooooo important that the BS's and reformed make sure that everyone knows what they did wrong (taking responsibility) except for themselves? This is the basis for "everyone" having their say. I will never get this concept.

[Star_Bright]

And you know what? I will always be a BS! For some, they will forever feel victimized as if it wasn't there fault. Some days, I do feel like that.

 

But other days? I loved my H deeply, passionately, and his affair will ALWAYS be a part of our history. And that can still really hurt me.

 

And like you, I cannot unring that bell. Just try to understand, to the best of my ability, what the hell happened to us and to me....

 

Yeah, I am trying to understand too, even though I should know because in my sitch I'm the one who did the deeds. I still don't understand why I did them though.

 

I am sorry for your pain. Honestly I have no idea what it would be like to be a BS. I have never loved someone deeply and passionately and had them hurt me like that. The closest I've felt to passionate love was with exMM and that was a really messed-up love, I know. I expected to get hurt and did get hurt and I am sure the feeling is totally different from being blind-sided like that.

[pureinheart]

Again, all of this is telling others what the content of their posts should be. NO ONE should be able to tell others what they are allowed to think, and providing they put words to their thoughts in a non-insulting manner, they are free to say what they want.

 

And once again the complete context of what was being discussed was changed.

[Star_Bright]

If you don't like the label then change your behavior.

 

May I also ask why it is sooooo important that the BS's and reformed make sure that everyone knows what they did wrong (taking responsibility) except for themselves?

 

I must say I don't understand these two concepts at all. What do you mean by if you don't like the label change your behavior? Are you saying that if I don't like to be labeled a reformed OW, I should go back to being an OW? I am genuinely confused about what you mean.

 

Second, I don't understand your second question at all. "Except for themselves"? I really don't get what you're trying to say.

 

??

[fooled once]

I think it is simple too, but in a different way from SG.

 

My own view, is: just stick to responding to the OPs or arguing for or against someone else's response using your own arguments or perspective and all is fine. No reason to give a run-down on what kind of person you think is behind the post. In fact, best not to publicly judge other posters that way at all. Respond to their posts, to their ideas, to the actions, feelings, opinions,... they describe.

 

And that's the beauty of this.

 

We can disagree.

 

I think it's every bit as sinister as it's been described. It's intentional discrimination and deliberately creating/using labels to discredit a group of posters based on those labels.

 

It's been used here on LS to attempt to force other posters to stop posting, or to discredit their posts and viewpoints.

 

The use of rOW and BS/BBS both fit into this category...just as I've seen posters try to discredit advice/support from posters because they were OW/fOW or WS/fWS on the Infidelity side.

 

I DO believe it's an intentional, deliberate effort.

 

Ditto these two posts!

 

If someone uses any of these, or similar labels to discredit/discourage posting...mine at least...I'll have no issue with reporting it and seeing what the results are.

 

You're right...pretty much nothing to discuss.

 

Thanks Owl. I will start doing that too!

 

But here is the beauty of it!

 

I can ignore it or I can report it.

 

You do not have to agree with me! I do not have to agree with you!

 

You cannot judge the validity of my advice, I cannot judge the validity of your advice.

 

Only the original poster can decide what has value to them in their situation or not.

 

We are all wonderfully different, as you posted earlier to me.

 

I think it comes down to the very subjective opinion as to what constitutes advice and support for each one of us.

 

And that will run the spectrum of tea with sugar to 2by4 brickbats.

 

And no one should try to control support of advice unless it violates TOS on this site.

 

If you want to or feel there is a need to, you are always free to post elsewhere, discuss it with a counselor or close friend, tell it to your dog or your gold fish.

 

But as long as it is allowed at this site, by these owners and their mods, it will not, does not have to, change to suit what you and a handful of others may deem "better" advice for newbies.

 

Even labelling others will not help to attain that result here.

 

Spark is right on.

 

Finding Nemo,

 

Unfortunately, your thread got way sidetracked - especially by some who started their attacks. As you know, there are some former members who have been making up new names and coming on here to attack posters they disagree with. All we can do is continue to report it to the Mods.

 

People don't like labels. Unless I label myself, I would prefer to not continue to see a label thrown at me. As stated, I am a wife and mother - a daughter and a sister - an employee and a friend. Period. I'm out of this thread.

[pureinheart]

I must say I don't understand these two concepts at all. What do you mean by if you don't like the label change your behavior? Are you saying that if I don't like to be labeled a reformed OW, I should go back to being an OW? I am genuinely confused about what you mean.

 

Second, I don't understand your second question at all. "Except for themselves"? I really don't get what you're trying to say.

 

??

 

Hi SB....

 

No, not saying to change to OW, saying to change how one comes across.

 

I rarely every hear of how the BS or reformed screwed up in the R, it's always the AP and how the fault lies with them.

[Silly_Girl]

When people label others, they do it out of hate or fear.

 

I think you're speaking for yourself here. Society uses labels all the time; it's a necessity. Are you saying that anyone who refers to disabled people does so out of hate or fear?

[donnamaybe]

Hi y'all,

 

This is what I've learned.

 

Reformed? Good word but used as ammunition in the past by a group of former posters. In itself, the word is harmless but stirs up really bad feelings on this forum. For the sake of peace, we should ban any form of labeling of OWs and stick to giving case-specific advice.

 

I think only trinity and I thought we would call ourselves "reformed"... but we are newbies. The word "reformed" means changed, could mean "preachy", could mean anything really. Why reform for those who did? It hurt. It hurt like hell. It hurt so bad that we vowed never again.

 

We began to discuss how to deal with harsh/insulting posts which included derogatory labels such as rOW in its "negative" context. Everybody agrees that some posters are just plain mean and will give advice based upon their circumstances. Some argued that we should call them out and explain to the OP what those particular circumstances are so that if new, the OP doesn't get freaked out even more than they already are. Others argued that the act of warning the OP about some posters only serves to categorize or label them. This has happened in the past ie. rOW. They argue that warnings given in "good faith" actually introduce a bias and could scare off the targeted posters. This would amount to censorship.

 

To get to a conclusion, a couple of posters referred us all to the Terms & Conditions and correctly stated that there is no explicit ban against harsh words or tough love. There is no ban against the use of labels either. That being said, it has been suggested time and time again that if we find a post offending, we should hit the "ALERT US" button or simply ignore it.

 

Now...someone pointed out that threads like this go against the TOS (?) because they go off topic and people start hammering each other. Apart from one post (by a new member who surprisingly knows too much personal info about FooledOnce and Donna), this has been a heated but polite debate. Somebody else pointed out that we need to reach a point when we agree to stop. As the OP, I would like to humbly ask that we stop now. As far as I'm concerned, all has been asked and answered.

I guess the answer is no.

[findingnemo]

I guess the answer is no.

 

 

I guess so:lmao:. What's a girl to do? Tony???????

[Silly_Girl]

I guess so:lmao:. What's a girl to do? Tony???????

 

And now, on a thread which constantly reiterated about how LS is an open forum and we ought not police others posts... we're now demanding that the posts stop. Because 'I say so'...

 

C'mon ladies, please tell me that's a little funny??!!

[donnamaybe]

And now, on a thread which constantly reiterated about how LS is an open forum and we ought not police others posts... we're now demanding that the posts stop. Because 'I say so'...

 

C'mon ladies, please tell me that's a little funny??!!

Yes. It is funny that polite requests by the OP about their own thread are ignored.

[Silly_Girl]

Yes. It is funny that polite requests by the OP about their own thread are ignored.

 

You're a naughty girl Donna!

[OWoman]

Yes. It is funny that polite requests by the OP about their own thread are ignored.

 

I thought that was de rigeur on LS. Being a "public forum" where "anyone can post", and all.

 

On a slightly more serious note, though - does the OP retain ownership of "their thread" once others have posted on it? Does it not become public property, or community property, or shared property? Isn't it there for "the common good" - for anyone who might want to read it in perpetuity, and gain wisdom and understanding from its pages?

[Breezy Trousers]

When I see the word "reformed other woman," I tend to think it's a woman who had certain spiritual lessons to learn in a certain curriculum (i.e., the school of affairs) and who has graduated to a broader understanding of herself and others. It's not about guilt trips or shame. It's just about been there, done that & moving on. I don't see it as derogatory at all. But that's me.

[desertIslandCactus]

When I see the word "reformed other woman," I tend to think it's a woman who had certain spiritual lessons to learn in a certain curriculum (i.e., the school of affairs) and who has graduated to a broader understanding of herself and others. It's not about guilt trips or shame. It's just about been there, done that & moving on. I don't see it as derogatory at all. But that's me.

 

I agree Breezy.

 

I see it as growth - in the right direction.

[jj33]

I have been reading old threads to see if some of my questions have already been addressed. While doing so, I keep coming across the Reformed OW concept and I'm a bit confused:confused:. In some posts, it sounds like a positive thing. In others, it sounds like a derogatory description.

 

Question: What does the term Reformed OW mean to you? Is it a positive thing or pretense? And to fOWs, would you call yourself a rOW? Why reform?

 

 

Finding I think I replied earlier on but seeing where this thread has gone I am moved to reply again.

 

I do not regret the relationship that I had and I do not apologize for it. So while I am a former OW I am not a "reformed or repentant OW.

 

Many people naively come to LS looking for support while they are involved with a committed partner. It makes sense - just look at the banner "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner".

 

This board has changed since I joined. OWs are no longer allowed to celebrate their happiness about their affairs, I would post an example but I understand that is against the TOS. They are no longer allowed to be given real support for staying in their affairs.

 

This forum has become a "rehab" for OW. Its ok to come here saying I am unhappy please please help me get out of it. But its not OK to say I love my MM/MW/OW/OM and I am having trouble dealing with the whole situation sometimes but I am not looking for advice about how to end the A.

 

So this has largely become a forum for reformed or repentent OW and some well meaning others who want to help those in pain, and those in pain who are looking to end the A, or those who are working out their anger at having been cheated on, taking pot shots at OWs. Or as I call it OW rehab. Thats appropriate for some posters but its the ethos that is deceiving. Those who want suppot for sticking with it are not given that support.

This schism is what created the label ROW. Its meaningless to me now because the ethos of the board has changed so dramatically.

 

Query why you are curious OP? Are you writing an article?

Edited March 13, 2011 by jj33

[woinlove]

Finding I think I replied earlier on but seeing where this thread has gone I am moved to reply again.

 

I do not regret the relationship that I had and I do not apologize for it. So while I am a former OW I am not a "reformed or repentant OW.

 

Many people naively come to LS looking for support while they are involved with a committed partner. It makes sense - just look at the banner "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner".

 

This board has changed since I joined. OWs are no longer allowed to celebrate their happiness about their affairs, I would post an example but I understand that is against the TOS. They are no longer allowed to be given real support for staying in their affairs.

 

This forum has become a "rehab" for OW. Its ok to come here saying I am unhappy please please help me get out of it. But its not OK to say I love my MM/MW/OW/OM and I am having trouble dealing with the whole situation sometimes but I am not looking for advice about how to end the A.

 

So this has largely become a forum for reformed or repentent OW and some well meaning others who want to help those in pain, and those in pain who are looking to end the A, or those who are working out their anger at having been cheated on, taking pot shots at OWs. Or as I call it OW rehab. Thats appropriate for some posters but its the ethos that is deceiving. Those who want suppot for sticking with it are not given that support.

This schism is what created the label ROW. Its meaningless to me now because the ethos of the board has changed so dramatically.

 

Query why you are curious OP? Are you writing an article?

 

Great post. I don't agree with much of it, but it is a great post for clearly conveying your perception of LS and the topic of the OP.

 

I don't agree that those who are happy and celebrating their affairs are not allowed to post here. Some current threads even have OW expressing their happiness with how or where their affair is going. If you are talking about celebration threads being removed, my impression is those are ones which were seen to be taking digs at others (typically BS).

 

As for support for sticking with an affair, again I think it is largely a matter of perception. When someone is looking for such support, it may seem to others that they are not completely happy being an OW. In that case, well-meaning people may try to get them to see things differently so that they might be happier. The flip side, is one sometimes sees the type of support you describe coming from other OW who themselves don't seem that happy with the status quo and might be encouraging others to stick it out as a way to reinforce to themselves that they are making the right decision in sticking it out. It's not clear to me that the latter is better than the former.

 

In the end, I can see the attraction of forums just for like-minded people who want encouragement to stay in an affair and I can also see what one might gain from a forum which brings a broader spectrum of views. LS falls into the latter category and I don't see anything wrong with that, provided people follow the TOS and are not rude, don't belittle others, etc.

[jj33]

Thanks WOINLOVE. I dont see anything wrong with LS I think its a great place but I think that there are so many digs against OW on this board that its not a very welcoming environment for someone who is in an affair. Most of those threads get polluted by infighting. If I had come here during my A I would never have posted because I would not have been interested in dealing with all the flack but thats just me, I wasnt interested in debating my position, just living my life so at that time I was on a board where everyone was an AP or WS and it worked for me at the time.

 

My apologies to OP for the small t/j but I think that may give you some insight into the use of the term.

Edited March 13, 2011 by jj33

[findingnemo]

Finding I think I replied earlier on but seeing where this thread has gone I am moved to reply again.

 

I do not regret the relationship that I had and I do not apologize for it. So while I am a former OW I am not a "reformed or repentant OW.

 

Many people naively come to LS looking for support while they are involved with a committed partner. It makes sense - just look at the banner "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner".

 

This board has changed since I joined. OWs are no longer allowed to celebrate their happiness about their affairs, I would post an example but I understand that is against the TOS. They are no longer allowed to be given real support for staying in their affairs.

 

This forum has become a "rehab" for OW. Its ok to come here saying I am unhappy please please help me get out of it. But its not OK to say I love my MM/MW/OW/OM and I am having trouble dealing with the whole situation sometimes but I am not looking for advice about how to end the A.

 

So this has largely become a forum for reformed or repentent OW and some well meaning others who want to help those in pain, and those in pain who are looking to end the A, or those who are working out their anger at having been cheated on, taking pot shots at OWs. Or as I call it OW rehab. Thats appropriate for some posters but its the ethos that is deceiving. Those who want suppot for sticking with it are not given that support.

This schism is what created the label ROW. Its meaningless to me now because the ethos of the board has changed so dramatically.

 

Query why you are curious OP? Are you writing an article?

 

No jj33. I'm writing not an article. When I first saw the label "reformed", I immediately thought it described me in that I was an OW who'd vowed never to be one again. As I kept reading older threads, I noticed the label used in "attacks" or negatively and I was confused.

[findingnemo]

Thanks WOINLOVE. I dont see anything wrong with LS I think its a great place but I think that there are so many digs against OW on this board that its not a very welcoming environment for someone who is in an affair. Most of those threads get polluted by infighting. If I had come here during my A I would never have posted because I would not have been interested in dealing with all the flack but thats just me, I wasnt interested in debating my position, just living my life so at that time I was on a board where everyone was an AP or WS and it worked for me at the time.

 

My apologies to OP for the small t/j but I think that may give you some insight into the use of the term.

 

No need to apologize. This thread went off topic a long time ago in my view.