Define rOW...good or bad?

[tami-chan]

There's nothing wrong with offering one's experience or offering advice to leave the A if the OW is hurting and confused. To encourage someone to stay in a place where they are second fiddle and actually ARE feeling second, isn't a healthy or a good thing for anybody.

 

Of course there is nothing wrong with offering advice. However, do you not agree that there is something wrong with "bullying" or "shaming" someone into submission or surrender? And yes, it does happen.

 

See, your idea of a rOW is different than others. You are talking to the extreme of it. Not ALL rOW are like that. Maybe one or two, but not all. Just look at BB. YOU going to tell me that she fits YOUR description of a rOW? She's got a heart of gold and is helpful, to everybody on here. Not just to OW's but to BS's, MM's as well.

 

Of course, not all reformed OWs are bullies or disrespectful , that goes without saying. Do we need to qualify things every single time? The OP has a question about rOWs because she noticed there was something "different" about it-so that is the focus. If it there was no other connotation attached to the term,other than a remorseful OW,findingnemo would not be so confused and people would not have all these input.

 

To me, some people around here, it seems, resent it when an OW decides to no longer be an OW and has the strength to walk away. If someone is ashamed or embarrassed to have been an OW, and feel good about themselves that they chose a new and better path, THAT should be good, not be held against them and be told "you are reformed OW and you suck, how dare you leave our nest of OW" Yes, that is extreme, not saying that actually is said, but it is certainly implied, with intention to certain members on here.

 

I do not know anybody who resents another for deciding to no longer be an OW. I think we celebrate anybody who makes a decision to take a path that she believes is better for her.

 

I have never read what you quoted above, that seems loony, crass and made up. BUT then again, I am not a regular poster on this forum on LS.

 

Reformed/moved on to a happier life. rOW and exOW are more or less the same. A choice made or an affair ended not by choice, still makes BOTH women exOW. Putting the r infront of it is just reason to cause fighting in this place and discredit someone else's advice.

 

Yes, we all know what it means LITERALLY. Ideally, it should not mean anything but someone who was involved in an affair who got out and is repentant, period.The question arose from the OP because she noticed there is a different connotation to the term.

 

If the advice is respectful and honest, coming from a good place, even if harsh or given reality check that needs to be heard, is STILL useful advice and shouldn't be dissed just because others feel it's not up to their par or standards.

 

Yes, for the most part, I do believe the advice are sincere. The breakdown is that when an OW decides to do something contrary to their advice then the respect and compassion is thrown out (usually), then the bullying, insults, shaming and denigration start.

[lovingwhatis]

Wow, woggle, thats a great perspective! I hadnt thought of that, though in general the advice i read on here is one of empowerment of the person who is posting. But irl i can think of situations like that.

 

I can think of only one rOW on here, a woman who after her really long A is really harsh on other Ows, and identifies with the BSs on this board. I feel she has some serious guilt projected outwards.

 

I dont regret the A, i followed my heart, took a chance, and did what i deemed was authentic in this situation. I didn't compromise my values. After being schooled here on LS, i will think hard before entering another EA, just because i feel i understand the nuances a lot more.

[tami-chan]

Whenever people try to leave a bad situation there are those who try and pull them down back into it. It is a crabs in a barrel kind of mentality. They want others to wallow in misery with them. I know people who stopped abusing drugs and other substances and their old friends resent them for it. When a woman manages to break out of the vicious cycle of drama and heartbreak that comes with the overwhelming majority of affairs people still stuck in it want to pull her down.

 

I understand what you are saying. Misery loves company and all that. It is the same misery that SOME betrayed spouses experience over and over again when confronted with stories of affairs. It is the same misery that fuels their venom when they berate and shame people who are involve in affairs who come to this forum to seek help, solace ,support.

Edited March 6, 2011 by tami-chan

[BB07]

The more I think about this, the more it gets under my skin. Why should anyone who is a XOW have their advice discredited just because of their status??????

 

And btw..........I have not forgotten that I loved xmm, yes I did but.......

 

I regretted the affair before I came here, I regretted the affair after I came here, I regretted the affair after I found out the truth, none of that changed and yes if he and I were still together and things hadn't happened as they did, I'd still regret it and I make no apologies for my regret.

 

And of course I'm more cynical of mm and their motives, after having lived through what I have, who the hell wouldn't be?

[Woggle]

I understand what you are saying. Misery loves company and all that. It is the same misery that SOME betrayed spouses experience over and over again when confronted with stories of affairs. It is the same misery that fuels their venom when they berate and shame people who are involve in affairs who come to this forum to seek help, solace support.

 

They are bitter because of betrayal. Being betrayed is the worst feeling in the world because you place your trust in somebody and they completely tear it to pieces. Betrayed spouses are innocent parties who entered into a marriage thinking that their spouse was as honest as they are. Finding out it was all a lie is like having your heart thrown into a blender.

 

Knowingly getting involved with a married person on the other hand is a risk a person willingly jumps into and a person who has been down that road and experiences the pain that it brings is somebody who should be listened to. It's like a scared straight program. Chances are an OW will not find love with a MM unless it is part of the small and minute amount of people like OWoman who do get lucky.

[whichwayisup]

Yes, for the most part, I do believe the advice are sincere. The breakdown is that when an OW decides to do something contrary to their advice then the respect and compassion is thrown out (usually), then the bullying, insults, shaming and denigration start.

 

Actually, I do agree with you, but with that I'm adding alot of it is also other members jumping in and feeding off of eachother and THAT is where the bullying starts, insults and fighting etc..It isn't directed at the person who created the thread, it's certain members here who don't get along or see eye to eye. There, I said it. And everybody knows this too.. Hell, I know I've been guilty of it sometimes, the person isn't here anymore though. I try my hardest not to fan the flames.

 

 

Of course there is nothing wrong with offering advice. However, do you not agree that there is something wrong with "bullying" or "shaming" someone into submission or surrender? And yes, it does happen.

 

Yes it does happen sometimes, and sadly I think it goes with the fact alot of people have been or are affected by infidelity or just been hurt, lash out but not intentionally directed at the OP, but reacting to their own situation. And fact too, LS allows anybody and everybody to come and post/reply. It's not right but it happens.

The thing tony wants everybody to do is hit the alert us option instead of jumping in and fighting/reacting to that post. Let him take care of it and delete the comment.

 

I do not know anybody who resents another for deciding to no longer be an OW. I think we celebrate anybody who makes a decision to take a path that she believes is better for her.

 

I could name someone, but I won't.

 

I have never read what you quoted above, that seems loony, crass and made up. BUT then again, I am not a regular poster on this forum on LS.

That's why I said "Yes, that is extreme, not saying that actually is said, but it is certainly implied" Implied and reading between the lines when things are said a certain way and a tone comes off by how something is worded.

 

Yes, we all know what it means LITERALLY. Ideally, it should not mean anything but someone who was involved in an affair who got out and is repentant, period.The question arose from the OP because she noticed there is a different connotation to the term.

 

Because someone used it in a negative way towards another member and it got out of hand and got used in that negative context over and over again, it caught on. Just like the BBS thing. One person made it up and then others use it, even though they must know it causes more reaction and fans the flames between certain members. I can see why she wanted to know what people thought it meant to them. It is a good question.

[whichwayisup]

Chances are an OW will not find love with a MM unless it is part of the small and minute amount of people like OWoman who do get lucky.

It happens and there are some OM who married their MW's too. HAL is one I can think of.

 

Those though who are with their partners and are happy, worked together to be where they are. They didn't have years of the MM/MW playing both sides, lying, gaslighting, going back and forth, and taking years to decide. MM held up his word, put a plan into action and followed through. Didn't treat his OW badly, or throw her under the bus. It's rare, but it happens. GEL, OW, are the ones who come to mind.

 

Problem is, there are so many OW and OM who come here and their MM/MW are NOT doing, not even close to doing, what GEL and OW's MM were doing to get out of their marriage. The ones I read about, many of them are just looking to stay in the affair and enjoy it for what it is. An affair. As much as it's cliche and I guess cookie cutter advice - There is a certain pattern that married people follow, a script that become so obvious after a while, it's just trying to get a new poster to see that their situation isn't as unique as they think is hard. What is interesting though? Later on they DO see it, when they are ready to.

 

sorry, I went abit off topic..

[tami-chan]

They are bitter because of betrayal. Being betrayed is the worst feeling in the world because you place your trust in somebody and they completely tear it to pieces. Betrayed spouses are innocent parties who entered into a marriage thinking that their spouse was as honest as they are. Finding out it was all a lie is like having your heart thrown into a blender.

 

I understand. I was a BS for many, many years.

 

Knowingly getting involved with a married person on the other hand is a risk a person willingly jumps into and a person who has been down that road and experiences the pain that it brings is somebody who should be listened to. It's like a scared straight program. Chances are an OW will not find love with a MM unless it is part of the small and minute amount of people like OWoman who do get lucky.

 

Absolutely..but if they decide not to listen, that does not give anybody to verbally abuse them or does it? Do you think the insults, the shaming, the bullying are well-deserved and necessary?

[tami-chan]

It happens and there are some OM who married their MW's too. HAL is one I can think of.

 

Those though who are with their partners and are happy, worked together to be where they are. They didn't have years of the MM/MW playing both sides, lying, gaslighting, going back and forth, and taking years to decide. MM held up his word, put a plan into action and followed through. Didn't treat his OW badly, or throw her under the bus. It's rare, but it happens. GEL, OW, are the ones who come to mind.

 

My xMM and I are both divorced and are together. We are happy.

[BB07]

Absolutely..but if they decide not to listen, that does not give anybody to verbally abuse them or does it? Do you think the insults, the shaming, the bullying are well-deserved and necessary?

 

I know you addressed this to Woggle, but hope you don't mind that I comment.

 

No the above examples in your post are not OK, however we should agree that sometimes it's difficult to know when the line is crossed because of interpretation and intent but yet on the other hand sometimes it's clear to all but those are the cases when it should be dealt with by a mod.

[jsb58]

Absolutely..but if they decide not to listen, that does not give anybody to verbally abuse them or does it? Do you think the insults, the shaming, the bullying are well-deserved and necessary?

Back up your comment with evidence. I posted a comment I thought was legit. Some guy sent me a notice otherwise. Somebody is around here to judge what's legit and what's not. Maybe you're mad it isn't you.

[AuthenticBliss]

Hello,

I joined this forum for another reason, but saw this thread and felt compelled to reply, even if it results in more than I care to share in the beginning. I'm posting here in rebuttal because I get the impression that it's frowned upon to have an experience and turn away from affairs as a result.

 

As a college freshman, away from the sheltered life I'd lived at home, I developed a crush on an older man. This man told me that he was getting separated. Things quickly evolved into something both emotional and physical. No need for details, but I ended the relationship when it became clear that a separation, much less divorce, wasn't going to happen. At the time, I was young and naive and didn't even consider myself an other woman. I did, however, regret moving so fast, knowing I should have waited for him to divorce before entering a relationship. We kept in touch periodically over the years, and when he found out I was seeing someone seriously, he tried to resume the relationship, which I now recognize was an affair. Long story short, I refused. Longer story short, he persisted, and I ended up cutting him out of my life completely.

 

I never wanted to be an other woman. I wouldn't dream of myself ever telling a woman to be part of that ever. I suppose that if I posted on this board, my advice would be seen as cookie cutter advice. My beliefs are my own, no matter the circumstances, and I must be true to myself and my beliefs. I don't know if my past and my regret over it makes me reformed or not. I know myself though, and I know that my morals and standards wouldn't allow me to tell someone to be in an affair. I made a grave mistake not being true to myself back then, and I won't make that mistake again. I will be true to myself always, even if it means I won't ever support another's point of view on the matter.

 

AB

[Summer Breeze]

Everyone has been putting it really well but I tend to be kind of blunt sometimes.

 

In my experience a reformed anything is someone who preaches AT people. They don't come across as willing to help or sympathize or guide. They come across as trying to bash it into you.

 

I don't care who any of you are or what 'side' you sit on. We have all seen reformed OW and reformed BS on here preaching AT people. We tend to allow our 'side' to get away with it because it's our side! It's no different to disagreeing with the ref at a basketball game. We may cast a blind eye to the fouls missed for the other side but we see every one missed for us. Deep inside we know.

 

There are OW and BS in here who show tremendous amounts of sympathy and empathy for everyone. There are others that are horrible. They take no notice of how fresh the wounds are or how deep the scars are. They don't seem to see if someone has posted because they're having a really crap day and just need to vent somewhere. No matter what it's full on attack. That is when it feels like this isn't a safe place to post.

 

I look at SI and I don't like the way their threads aren't balanced. I don't like the fact there aren't OP and BS talking and understanding and taking parts of that in their healing process. But I can see now why they do it-to make it safe to post and to vent. I will never participate in a forum like that but if I were a 20 something who got in a situation way over my head and wasn't savvy with what was going on with the world I would be too scared to post here.

 

In saying all of this there are only a handul who I consider almost militant in their responses. I feel that by and large it's a good grouping of people. I also feel that no matter what everyone is saying what they feel needs to be said to help others. Sometimes it's the words chosen for that particular moment that is the problem.

 

My 2p. But with inflation that knocks it to almost worthless!

[Silly_Girl]

I have been labeled with being rOW. I don't care for the label because it's been used in a derogatory way at times.

 

I regret that I was involved in an affair, it was against my beliefs and my moral code but yet I did it anyway. I stumbled upon LS because I still had unresolved issues about it several years later.

 

A lot has happened since I first came here and I'm even more convinced now that it's on my top five list of things I wish I'd never done. However.........with that said, I try to remain compassionate and I hope that sometimes I can help.

 

But BB, I don't see you in the gang of those I was referring to. Because you still have compassion, you can still read a post and feel their pain and offer advice from your painful experiences. And the advice IN PRINCIPLE may be the same as those from other corners but - rightly or wrongly - it feels as though it's coming from a very much kinder, more understanding place. No one here wants posters to suffer in a destructive relationship, regardless of who is married to whom. But I love your posts because I never feel judgement or disdain.

[Silly_Girl]

To me, some people around here, it seems, resent it when an OW decides to no longer be an OW and has the strength to walk away. If someone is ashamed or embarrassed to have been an OW, and feel good about themselves that they chose a new and better path, THAT should be good, not be held against them and be told "you are reformed OW and you suck, how dare you leave our nest of OW" Yes, that is extreme, not saying that actually is said, but it is certainly implied, with intention to certain members on here.

 

 

Not seen that and it shouldn't be the case.

 

I think too many posters from each 'side' wind up trying to play devil's advocate, with good intention, and overshoot it.

[Silly_Girl]

Of course there is nothing wrong with offering advice. However, do you not agree that there is something wrong with "bullying" or "shaming" someone into submission or surrender? And yes, it does happen.

 

 

 

Of course, not all reformed OWs are bullies or disrespectful , that goes without saying. Do we need to qualify things every single time? The OP has a question about rOWs because she noticed there was something "different" about it-so that is the focus. If it there was no other connotation attached to the term,other than a remorseful OW,findingnemo would not be so confused and people would not have all these input.

 

 

 

I do not know anybody who resents another for deciding to no longer be an OW. I think we celebrate anybody who makes a decision to take a path that she believes is better for her.

 

I have never read what you quoted above, that seems loony, crass and made up. BUT then again, I am not a regular poster on this forum on LS.

 

 

 

Yes, we all know what it means LITERALLY. Ideally, it should not mean anything but someone who was involved in an affair who got out and is repentant, period.The question arose from the OP because she noticed there is a different connotation to the term.

 

 

 

Yes, for the most part, I do believe the advice are sincere. The breakdown is that when an OW decides to do something contrary to their advice then the respect and compassion is thrown out (usually), then the bullying, insults, shaming and denigration start.

 

Started to highlight the good bits but the whole post needs bolding!!!!!

 

Thank you for this.

[Summer Breeze]

But BB, I don't see you in the gang of those I was referring to. Because you still have compassion, you can still read a post and feel their pain and offer advice from your painful experiences. And the advice IN PRINCIPLE may be the same as those from other corners but - rightly or wrongly - it feels as though it's coming from a very much kinder, more understanding place. No one here wants posters to suffer in a destructive relationship, regardless of who is married to whom. But I love your posts because I never feel judgement or disdain.

 

I agree totally with this post. As I rambled on before it isn't about what is said it's how it's said. If a child comes to you wanting to talk about something serious like having sex-it doesn't work to rudely say 'don't do it because it's wrong at your age'. You can convey the meaning in a much gentler and effective way. I also agree that if someone comes in and is all bluster and rudeness then they deserve what they get.

 

Great post about BB SG from SB, a BS and xOW or r OW. Sorry too much coffee.

[OWoman]

To me, some people around here, it seems, resent it when an OW decides to no longer be an OW and has the strength to walk away. If someone is ashamed or embarrassed to have been an OW, and feel good about themselves that they chose a new and better path, THAT should be good, not be held against them and be told "you are reformed OW and you suck, how dare you leave our nest of OW" Yes, that is extreme, not saying that actually is said, but it is certainly implied, with intention to certain members on here.

 

I have seen this claim made before, but I've never seen any actual instance of this, either stated directly or implied, in any post on LS, ever!

 

If anyone has an actual example of this, I'm sure all of us would be grateful to have it linked so that we can see it, as we must have missed the original posting.

 

(Actually, BeachBetty's description of a ROW is pretty close to my understanding of a ROW, too. I'm not sure how others view the term, but I wouldn't have said her description was "extreme" or unusual...? )

[OWoman]

Reformed/moved on to a happier life. rOW and exOW are more or less the same. A choice made or an affair ended not by choice, still makes BOTH women exOW. Putting the r infront of it is just reason to cause fighting in this place and discredit someone else's advice.

 

I disagree. I am an xOW. I am not a rOW.

[woinlove]

I have been labeled with being rOW. I don't care for the label because it's been used in a derogatory way at times.

 

I regret that I was involved in an affair, it was against my beliefs and my moral code but yet I did it anyway. I stumbled upon LS because I still had unresolved issues about it several years later.

 

A lot has happened since I first came here and I'm even more convinced now that it's on my top five list of things I wish I'd never done. However.........with that said, I try to remain compassionate and I hope that sometimes I can help.

 

Everyone can see the heart and compassion in your posts. Often those labelling or berating groups of other posters are just showing a part of themselves. Fortunately, we can all think for ourselves, even if a few posters seem to want to do our thinking for us.

[Summer Breeze]

Everyone can see the heart and compassion in your posts. Often those labelling or berating groups of other posters are just showing a part of themselves. Fortunately, we can all think for ourselves, even if a few posters seem to want to do our thinking for us.

 

As do some of the participants who continually preach at everyone no matter their situation or level of need of support.

 

If you look at the posts after BB's you'll notice we all supported her and the style of posts and compassion from her. In that there is a showing that when someone approaches their communications in a certain manner it's noticed and respected.

[woinlove]

If you look at the posts after BB's you'll notice we all supported her and the style of posts and compassion from her. In that there is a showing that when someone approaches their communications in a certain manner it's noticed and respected.

 

Not sure which "all" you are referring to here, as I haven't seen you or others supporting BB labelling or berating other posters. I agree with your general sentiment that the manner of communications is noticed.

[woinlove]

The more I think about this, the more it gets under my skin. Why should anyone who is a XOW have their advice discredited just because of their status??????

 

They shouldn't. Which is a reason why this label is not very useful for labelling groups of posters. If someone wants to label themselves, fine, but that hasn't been how this label has been used on LS.

[findingnemo]

Just for clarity's sake - when I call myself a rOW, I mean that I'm no longer seeing the MM (shudder). Reformed as in no longer. That's what we're talking about, right?

 

See....I get too confused to participate anymore.

M

 

Yes, reformed should mean that. At least that what it means to most people.

[findingnemo]

Myself - I am a person who was involved with a MM many, many years ago. I was not married and he was separated and living apart from his wife when I met him. As with many OW, promises were made and broken. Needless to say, I moved past that time and met my H and married him and have been happily married for almost 13 years. I am here to share my experiences, to support those who truly want to end the pain of an affair and to offer any advice I can (not just in this section, but in other sections as well).

 

:bunny: I like your posts - it is important to know that there is a whole world out there and that happiness does exist. Thank you!!!