Giving Away Your Power

[NoIDidn't]

Can I ask - is that the only way you can interpret his actions? As part of a power struggle?

 

No. But for the purposes of this conversation, I stated that. He could have just wanted to be honest with her and set up his reasons for not being able to do certain things up front. But it was definitely a power move. That cannot be denied.

 

Are you assuming something negative about my post that you likely shouldn't?

[Silly_Girl]

No. But for the purposes of this conversation, I stated that. He could have just wanted to be honest with her and set up his reasons for not being able to do certain things up front. But it was definitely a power move. That cannot be denied.

 

Are you assuming something negative about my post that you likely shouldn't?

 

 

I felt it could have been him managing her expectations so as to prevent something backfiring for him later down the line. If he's scared he may be jeopardising his status quo - and cares for that status quo - then possibly he handed HER the power then, without realising.

[NoIDidn't]

 

I felt it could have been him managing her expectations so as to prevent something backfiring for him later down the line. If he's scared he may be jeopardising his status quo - and cares for that status quo - then possibly he handed HER the power then, without realising.

 

I like that. I've done more listening than speaking, but noted that power move that he made. But I think she's in your camp and realizes when she's got a man by his ... cahones...so to speak. LOL.

 

Plus, I think its pretty rude to approach a woman, exchange phone numbers with her, and then hit her with "I'm married and have no intention of leaving my W [so don't get your hopes up or ask or get too attached, is implied]". If he said it before getting her number, and not over the phone as he was heading home to his W (and likely managing how long he could be on the phone), I might not have reacted as negatively to it when she told me about the "new guy" she met.

[Silly_Girl]

I like that. I've done more listening than speaking, but noted that power move that he made. But I think she's in your camp and realizes when she's got a man by his ... cahones...so to speak. LOL.

 

Plus, I think its pretty rude to approach a woman, exchange phone numbers with her, and then hit her with "I'm married and have no intention of leaving my W [so don't get your hopes up or ask or get too attached, is implied]". If he said it before getting her number, and not over the phone as he was heading home to his W (and likely managing how long he could be on the phone), I might not have reacted as negatively to it when she told me about the "new guy" she met.

 

I'd have reacted negatively too, regardless of which 'camp' I'm in

[NoIDidn't]

I'd have reacted negatively too, regardless of which 'camp' I'm in

 

Uh oh, "camp" is now a bad word too?! Someone needs to make a list! LOL.

 

By "camp" I meant, she was able to capitalize on his shortsighted thinking. She's smart like you and saw the opportunity pretty quickly.

[Silly_Girl]

By "camp" I meant, she was able to capitalize on his shortsighted thinking. She's smart like you and saw the opportunity pretty quickly.

 

Thanks NID, for the erm... 'compliment'

[Summer Breeze]

Dude u CANT have an affair n keep any power. The only girls that dont give up power r the ones that say hell no I aint puttin myself in that situation, i aint nobodys mistress, u respect my power u be single first b4 u come sniffin round me again. The ones that give up ALL theyre power THEYRE the mistresses.

 

Dude you're wrong. I was in an A for 3 years and I never gave away my power. I compromised and it shifted, just like it does in any R. My life was mine and his was his. I didn't sit in and wait for the phone to ring and I didn't drop everything when he was free. He used to get tremendously jealous because I dated. He knew that if I found someone I could be serious over then we were done. He also knew that when I was tired of the A and wasn't happy to continue then we were done.

 

Someone made a comment about the amount of time their MM spent making sure things were ok and everything was fine. Mine did that too. The first time we had dinner he had a call from his W. When it was done I told him I would appreciate that not happening again. I didn't have other men calling me during dates and if they did I wouldn't answer. I never demanded that he not speak to her but I put my restrictions in place. The choice to go forward and how was his.

 

I know this is not the blueprint for most As but it was for mine. But it is the blueprint for all of the Rs I've had in my life so why should that one have been any different?

[delphin]

Hmm i can agree with you there, i've done it so many times and when i hang on to my power i feel so fantastic in charge of my own life and that i should be treasured, why the hell do i give it up? stupid stupid!!!!! i'm trying to stop myself doing it for the 6th time!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

oh bugger think it went to wrong post!!

 

um can someone tell ma what A's and R's and MM's are? i'm assuming R is relationship????

Edited March 8, 2011 by delphin
???

[donnamaybe]

I was on another message board once where a gal described her ex husband's abusive treatment of her to the point where she didn't feel she was worthy of being loved - sad, that. She then became involved with a MM and has been waiting around for him to leave his M for her - even said "we're heading toward M" at one point. Later on she begins to feel like he will never leave - was talking about how when his last child is graduated MUST be the time he will take action - yet, she was feeling like he might not and was discussing dating other men.

 

I can't help but feel this poor young woman has given away her power. More aptly, her power was stripped of her by her abusive ex, and she still hasn't regained it IMO. She is still waiting on what some man decides is going to happen to her life.

[SunsetRed]

Dude u CANT have an affair n keep any power. The only girls that dont give up power r the ones that say hell no I aint puttin myself in that situation, i aint nobodys mistress, u respect my power u be single first b4 u come sniffin round me again. The ones that give up ALL theyre power THEYRE the mistresses.

 

AMEN to that. What power can a mistress have when she is following a MM around, a man who's shared vows, home and income and children with another woman. All the mistress gets is sex and empty words. Sometimes if we're lucky, we get dinner out once in a while.

[Summer Breeze]

AMEN to that. What power can a mistress have when she is following a MM around, a man who's shared vows, home and income and children with another woman. All the mistress gets is sex and empty words. Sometimes if we're lucky, we get dinner out once in a while.

 

If that's all a mistress will settle for then that's what she'll get. I'd lay odds that she's one who 'settles' in any relationship she has.

[2sure]

This is an important topic. The subject of power regarding women and relationships with men is often obscured with feminism and social politics.

Its way more personal than that - and has to be considered with a lot of self reflection before a woman really understands what she wants and what she has to offer.

 

Ive tried to say it a million different ways but the concept is always taken as an insult to OW. Having been an OW, having been a BS , having been around the block - I can say from my heart that I only want to share with OW because I care...

 

When an OW feels she is empowered because her MM doesnt take calls from his wife when he is with OW, doesnt share a bed with his wife, defers to OW regarding issues in the marriage....

 

It isnt a position of power. It isnt honesty.

It is demeaning to you.

 

Yes, he is treating his wife like crap behind her back. Yes, he is sharing things with you he should be sharing with her.

Yet - for whatever reasons, he is still choosing her and not willing to risk the marriage by telling his wife the truth about you.

 

Its easy to be honest when it doesnt cost you anything, when there is no risk to yourself, when you think you can take it or leave it.

[BB07]

If that's all a mistress will settle for then that's what she'll get. I'd lay odds that she's one who 'settles' in any relationship she has.

 

 

It may be true.........and it's not a pretty picture is it? IMHO, being a OW puts most women in a disadvantageous position. It's just the nature of it, of course there are exceptions but many of the stories you read about here have few strong women as role models for OW. If a woman is strong, she wouldn't have such a difficult time walking away and a lot of women do have a difficult time walking away.

 

I decided a long time ago to NOT settle and I knew I'd never be a OW again so it was a double whammy to find that I was without my consent. Looking back......I see that even though I told myself I would not allow myself to feel that powerless again, there were aspects of it (being the unknowing OW) where I accepted things I shouldn't have or tolerated more than I should have. When love is involved.......my boundaries have sucked. No more! I will NEVER give that much of myself away again. My boundaries otherwise have always been pretty dang high. Go figure uh!

[Summer Breeze]

I was on another message board once where a gal described her ex husband's abusive treatment of her to the point where she didn't feel she was worthy of being loved - sad, that. She then became involved with a MM and has been waiting around for him to leave his M for her - even said "we're heading toward M" at one point. Later on she begins to feel like he will never leave - was talking about how when his last child is graduated MUST be the time he will take action - yet, she was feeling like he might not and was discussing dating other men.

 

I can't help but feel this poor young woman has given away her power. More aptly, her power was stripped of her by her abusive ex, and she still hasn't regained it IMO. She is still waiting on what some man decides is going to happen to her life.

 

Hey Donna Girl. I obviously have no idea what other board this person posts on but it's amazing. In the recent past there was a woman who was in an identical situation. Uncanny huh?

 

I digress.

 

I can't speak about the person you're referring to but I can the other one. She did talk about seeing other people and she did have a timeline in her mind as to when she wanted action. I used to date an investment banker who worked in Singapore. He was gone 9 months out of the year and at one point I told him I wasn't happy and he gave me his 'plan' and that it would include coming back by year x. I never lost power in the R but I did work with him till I figured out I was about to lose power in the R. It can be a fine line between comproimising and losing power. It can be nothing but a perception to someone on the outside. As OW on here are so very often told there is no one who knows what's said in the marital home. There's also no knowledge what's said between APs.

 

What we may see as a loss of power could be someone putting out limits and trying to work within them. I did. I never lost power. I never lost power with the banker. My friends thought I was nuts with the banker and that I gave him far too much leeway. I didn't.

 

It's a long way around it but the woman you describe may seem to you as having lost her power to 'some man' but it could well be that she has her boundaries in place and she's happy to live by them. She may think that he's worth the risk. He may be and he may not be. I thought the banker was and he wasn't.

 

Sometimes I think that we forget that what we read in here is often written out of pain and frustration. Even people in wonderful Rs have days they almost hate their partner and need to vent. We see people at their weakest and quite often that's what we take with us. Oh poor so and so. Oh my goodness she was such a bltch. Sometimes we're seeing a moment of pain or loneliness like we all have. We can't define the person by that moment.

 

I'll stop now. I'm sick of listening to myself think.

[donnamaybe]

SB, if that situation was similar to yours and caused you pain to think about it, I'm sorry. I had no idea nor any intention of causing you any emotional unrest.

 

As for defining a person by a "moment," I don't think a multi-year A can be classified as "a moment."

 

Believe me, I would LOVE to see all women - no, all people - empowered to NOT take any crap off ANYONE!

[Summer Breeze]

It may be true.........and it's not a pretty picture is it? IMHO, being a OW puts most women in a disadvantageous position. It's just the nature of it, of course there are exceptions but many of the stories you read about here have few strong women as role models for OW. If a woman is strong, she wouldn't have such a difficult time walking away and a lot of women do have a difficult time walking away.

 

I decided a long time ago to NOT settle and I knew I'd never be a OW again so it was a double whammy to find that I was without my consent. Looking back......I see that even though I told myself I would not allow myself to feel that powerless again, there were aspects of it (being the unknowing OW) where I accepted things I shouldn't have or tolerated more than I should have. When love is involved.......my boundaries have sucked. No more! I will NEVER give that much of myself away again. My boundaries otherwise have always been pretty dang high. Go figure uh!

 

We all have moments BB and you came through yours like a star.

 

I agree about what you said but my point is that if someone is weak enough to give their power away they'll do it in any R. Case in point my mother. Dad cheated on her for years and she never questioned it. She hurt and she hated him but she gave him her power without question. When my H cheated on me and I called to tell her I'd left him she cried and cried. We talked for hours and she told me she wished she'd had my courage. I told her that she'd had it all along but she knew her daughter would need it and she kept hold of it for me. My M was a subservient daughter and a person who was compromising to the point of being a doormat with friends. She was so strong for me growing up but she never was for herself.

 

I honestly think if she'd left him and found someone else it would have been more of the same. She was never a person who had the strength to keep power but she was strong enough to raise a daughter who did.

 

I just feel sad for all of the women, and men, around who don't have that self belief and make it show in all aspects of their lives.

[Summer Breeze]

SB, if that situation was similar to yours and caused you pain to think about it, I'm sorry. I had no idea nor any intention of causing you any emotional unrest.

 

As for defining a person by a "moment," I don't think a multi-year A can be classified as "a moment."

 

Believe me, I would LOVE to see all women - no, all people - empowered to NOT take any crap off ANYONE!

 

Oh doll you didn't cause me any pain! The fool flew me out to Australia a few months ago to see if he could bring me around again. Great trip for me and completely unsuccessful for him!

 

The 'moment' I spoke of was the moments when people step in here and are weak and needy. They could be going on great guns and all's well in the world and then all of a sudden their world collapses for an hour and they need the emotional connect of we biddies! I'm not saying the A was a moment, I'm saying opening up here and showing the soft underbelly.

 

I'm with you on the crap factor.

[donnamaybe]

Oh doll you didn't cause me any pain! The fool flew me out to Australia a few months ago to see if he could bring me around again. Great trip for me and completely unsuccessful for him!

 

The 'moment' I spoke of was the moments when people step in here and are weak and needy. They could be going on great guns and all's well in the world and then all of a sudden their world collapses for an hour and they need the emotional connect of we biddies! I'm not saying the A was a moment, I'm saying opening up here and showing the soft underbelly.

 

I'm with you on the crap factor.

Good! I was kinda wondering, because you seem to be a very strong gal indeed!

 

The thing is, those "moments" you speak of are the REAL person. Unfortunately, in the case where a person HAS given away their power, many times there is this false bravado (I KNOW he/she loves me and I KNOW my MP isn't lying to me and I KNOW he/she will someday leave their spouse!) and they lie to themselves. So rather than truly examining their own REAL feelings, they put on this happy face and pretend everything is fine. Obviously, everything is NOT fine, and if that's so, they must do something about it if they want to feel okay - be in charge of their own lives.

 

I just wish they'd take command and lay out their needs and INSIST on having them and REFUSE to take less.

[Summer Breeze]

Good! I was kinda wondering, because you seem to be a very strong gal indeed!

 

The thing is, those "moments" you speak of are the REAL person. Unfortunately, in the case where a person HAS given away their power, many times there is this false bravado (I KNOW he/she loves me and I KNOW my MP isn't lying to me and I KNOW he/she will someday leave their spouse!) and they lie to themselves. So rather than truly examining their own REAL feelings, they put on this happy face and pretend everything is fine. Obviously, everything is NOT fine, and if that's so, they must do something about it if they want to feel okay - be in charge of their own lives.

 

I just wish they'd take command and lay out their needs and INSIST on having them and REFUSE to take less.

 

Me strong. I've never been called that before . Thanks Sweets!

 

I know what you're saying and I understand where you're coming from but if you were having a chat with a few of your friends over a glass of wine on a Friday night. You'd just had a falling out with your partner (I know you wouldn't but work with me). You have a glass and one of the girls starts talking about something her H did and then someone complains about something their BF did and then you say that you love him but God there are moments you'd like to be alone. A moment. You know what that moment means. It means you're frustrated and have a few unresolved issues and you want to vent in a safe place. You know your gal pals will see that as a moment. Not how you truly feel in your heart.

 

What if one of them decided to take that as gospel and create their perception of your situation? Would it be a fair assessment or would it be a moment taken out of context and without the background only you and your strapping fella share?

 

I know I kept the power in my A and I know I struggled sometimes doing it. I can tell you right now I've had moments in every single relationship that I shared with people and I'm some glad they took them for what they were. I know you're saying what you are because you want people to find the strength to do better but sometimes they're doing fine and they're looking to what they want their future to be. They're trusting someone they love and the words and actions shared between them. Are they any more mistaken than the BS who has taken back a WS and invested 3 or 4 years of heartache on the road to recovery knowing it could come unpinned at any time? To me that's insanity but I look at people like Snowflower and Seren and they did it. They gambled and they trusted and they went against the odds and they did it.

 

The ones I feel sorry for are the unsuspecting young people who have no lifes experience to draw from. The BBs who are lied to and in the middle of the situation before they know there's a situation. I look at the people like me, OWoman, White Flower a little different to some of the 'kids' who are being consumed by their situations.

[donnamaybe]

Me strong. I've never been called that before . Thanks Sweets!

 

I know what you're saying and I understand where you're coming from but if you were having a chat with a few of your friends over a glass of wine on a Friday night. You'd just had a falling out with your partner (I know you wouldn't but work with me). You have a glass and one of the girls starts talking about something her H did and then someone complains about something their BF did and then you say that you love him but God there are moments you'd like to be alone. A moment. You know what that moment means. It means you're frustrated and have a few unresolved issues and you want to vent in a safe place. You know your gal pals will see that as a moment. Not how you truly feel in your heart.

 

What if one of them decided to take that as gospel and create their perception of your situation? Would it be a fair assessment or would it be a moment taken out of context and without the background only you and your strapping fella share?

 

I know I kept the power in my A and I know I struggled sometimes doing it. I can tell you right now I've had moments in every single relationship that I shared with people and I'm some glad they took them for what they were. I know you're saying what you are because you want people to find the strength to do better but sometimes they're doing fine and they're looking to what they want their future to be. They're trusting someone they love and the words and actions shared between them. Are they any more mistaken than the BS who has taken back a WS and invested 3 or 4 years of heartache on the road to recovery knowing it could come unpinned at any time? To me that's insanity but I look at people like Snowflower and Seren and they did it. They gambled and they trusted and they went against the odds and they did it.

 

The ones I feel sorry for are the unsuspecting young people who have no lifes experience to draw from. The BBs who are lied to and in the middle of the situation before they know there's a situation. I look at the people like me, OWoman, White Flower a little different to some of the 'kids' who are being consumed by their situations.

It doesn't matter which position a person is in (OW or BS) when they are being played for a fool and used. They have both lost their power.

 

As for someone just venting about some little habit of their partner's in an otherwise full time relationship, that is WAY different than finally admitting that all the promises by an MM/MW are wearing thin after waiting for years and years, and we all know that. Hell, I bitch about my kids once in awhile, but it's not because they have me in some sort of subservient position where I am accepting whatever crumbs they toss my way. Same with my man. I get bountiful riches with him. He might do some odd little thing that kinda tweaks me, and I might mention it to gal pals, but he's not attempted to place me in some position of "less than."

[Summer Breeze]

It doesn't matter which position a person is in (OW or BS) when they are being played for a fool and used. They have both lost their power.

 

As for someone just venting about some little habit of their partner's in an otherwise full time relationship, that is WAY different than finally admitting that all the promises by an MM/MW are wearing thin after waiting for years and years, and we all know that. Hell, I bitch about my kids once in awhile, but it's not because they have me in some sort of subservient position where I am accepting whatever crumbs they toss my way. Same with my man. I get bountiful riches with him. He might do some odd little thing that kinda tweaks me, and I might mention it to gal pals, but he's not attempted to place me in some position of "less than."

 

I've said all I can on the topic. I disagree with you on a key factor-sometimes when people come in here they're having a moment and they're weak. We can't judge the complete relationship on that moment. We don't have access to what's being said. We don't have access to how many nights a month they're together and holidays they're together for. I won't say that someone has given up their power because they're in a forum where they might have had a tough time and needed some support. I won't judge the whole thing that way. Why because that was me a few times in my own A. It was me with my alcoholic xH who ended up cheating on me. I had moments where I felt my world was falling apart but the reality was nothing was out of my control and I never lost power. If someone is in here consistently saying help I'm a wreck then yes I agree. But if someone comes in and once every few months needs to vent no I won't. If she feels she's holding on to her power that's her call not mine. Just because you say she has no power doesn't make it true. Having said that me saying she does doesn't make it true either.

 

That's all. At the core you and I agree-no matter the R you need to take care of you and yours. I always worry about some of the young newbies though. Having said that I've given sympathy cards to brides before too. Always as a joke, kinda.

[BB07]

We all have moments BB and you came through yours like a star.

 

I agree about what you said but my point is that if someone is weak enough to give their power away they'll do it in any R. Case in point my mother. Dad cheated on her for years and she never questioned it. She hurt and she hated him but she gave him her power without question. When my H cheated on me and I called to tell her I'd left him she cried and cried. We talked for hours and she told me she wished she'd had my courage. I told her that she'd had it all along but she knew her daughter would need it and she kept hold of it for me. My M was a subservient daughter and a person who was compromising to the point of being a doormat with friends. She was so strong for me growing up but she never was for herself.

 

I honestly think if she'd left him and found someone else it would have been more of the same. She was never a person who had the strength to keep power but she was strong enough to raise a daughter who did.

 

I just feel sad for all of the women, and men, around who don't have that self belief and make it show in all aspects of their lives.

 

I can relate to what you wrote about your parents dynamic.

My father was a serial cheater, among other things. I have often viewed my mother as weak because she kept taking him back but yet in other ways I view her as the strongest person I know. Doesn't make sense and it seems such a contradiction. I knew at 17 that I would NEVER put myself in a position such as hers but yet I've picked many unsuitable men that weren't cheaters but were certainly unsuitable in other ways.

Here I am.......50 years old and I just don't want to do it anymore. I don't see myself taking a chance on anyone again because I'm afraid to trust my own judgment. The strange thing is, I seem just fine without a man in my life and I confess there has been very little time in my past life when there hasn't been someone there in one capacity or another but I'm finding I'm just fine all by myself.

[Summer Breeze]

I can relate to what you wrote about your parents dynamic.

My father was a serial cheater, among other things. I have often viewed my mother as weak because she kept taking him back but yet in other ways I view her as the strongest person I know. Doesn't make sense and it seems such a contradiction. I knew at 17 that I would NEVER put myself in a position such as hers but yet I've picked many unsuitable men that weren't cheaters but were certainly unsuitable in other ways.

Here I am.......50 years old and I just don't want to do it anymore. I don't see myself taking a chance on anyone again because I'm afraid to trust my own judgment. The strange thing is, I seem just fine without a man in my life and I confess there has been very little time in my past life when there hasn't been someone there in one capacity or another but I'm finding I'm just fine all by myself.

 

Huh I wonder if somehow our mothers were separated at birth! You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

The key is to be fine with yourself at all times. Alone or in an R. The trick is to figure out whether or not you're ok when you're alone-not many of us like doing that.

 

You're a good gal BB and you're obviously made of good stuff.

[BB07]

Huh I wonder if somehow our mothers were separated at birth! You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

The key is to be fine with yourself at all times. Alone or in an R. The trick is to figure out whether or not you're ok when you're alone-not many of us like doing that.

 

You're a good gal BB and you're obviously made of good stuff.

 

 

Thanks SB...........and right back at ya girlie!

 

Sometimes I wish a bunch of us could meet up and have a girls night out.

[seren]

I have a very good friend who had been in an A for 15 years, she is one of the most assertive, got it together women I have known. She is heavily involved in Women's movements, equality groups at a National level a Union official and takes no crap from anyone. Yet, I watched while she turned herself into knots waiting for the MM to ring, would drop everything just to spend an hour with him and spoke about their future when they would be together when his wife had a new kidney (seriously), when their daughter graduated, when the grandchild grew up, just add a when .. It made no sense to me, she made excuses for him when he didn't turn up, excuses when he didn't show at her grandson's funeral or her father's.

 

As cynical as I am, I believed him when he said he wouldn't hurt her, that his marriage was just for him being a carer to his sick wife, until I met his wife and saw that he was a liar. He dumped my friend in a heartbeat when he retired and would no longer bump into her. I saw my friend crumple, she was never the same afterwards, lost her pazazz as she doubted everything she believed to be true and her self belief. His 'love' gave her confidence, she relinquished her power to him because she loved and believed in him. Dammed sad and never made any sense.

 

As a BS, I never felt I relinquished power, even on D Day, in fact on D Day I had the truth and was so relieved that I hadn't been going crazy (gaslighting is a bitch) I felt pretty powerful. Informed choice gives everyone power. If people in an A are truthful with each other, then I don't agree that there is a power struggle. Lying gives someone the opportunity for you (general) to base your actions, your acceptance or not of a situation based upon understood norms. If you are lied to, your choices are based on sand, simply because the situation isn't being read right. Now I am rambling, again ....