Giving Away Your Power

[OWoman]

AMEN to that. What power can a mistress have when she is following a MM around, a man who's shared vows, home and income and children with another woman. All the mistress gets is sex and empty words. Sometimes if we're lucky, we get dinner out once in a while.

 

Perhaps that's the difference between a mistress and an OW? I've never been a mistress, but I've been OW several times, and I don't recognise myself in anything described here. I never followed a MM around, and I never got "sex and empty words". I got whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, on my own terms. It was the most power and the most control I've had in any R.

[BB07]

Powerful post Seren and you are right about the lies taking the power away. The deck is stacked in the liar's favor regardless if you are the BS or the AP or both.

 

I can relate to your friends story because sometimes I'm afraid that I have lost parts of myself that I will never find again. I'm afraid the damage is too great and I won't ever allow anyone close to me again. Hard lessons to learn.

[SunsetRed]

Seren, I have a friend like yours as well. She carries herself like the next Oprah, is superwoman with her career and manages to work out and look hot. She's been in an affair with a married man for 25 years. That's basically her whole adult life as she's 47 now. To make matters worse, she pays for everything when they go out, as he's on disability for "his back." Also, when she does get assertive with him and expresses frusteration with him being married, he hits her. She refuses to change anything about her situation so I am assuming this is either something she wants or something in her thinks she doesn't deserve better.

 

Personally, I do want better for me. I have been faithfully doing NC even though it's killing me, I've gone out on dates and I'm replacing thoughs of MM with affirmations. I COULD have chosen to let someone else's husband move into my place and I didn't. On the outside I'm doing everything right. Its just that my stupid heart won't cooperate and I still long for whatever it was that MM did to draw me in. I can't wait for my outside circumstances to match all the recovery I am striving for.

[seren]

I think we all are shaped and formed by our life experiences, we just don't recognise when and how it changes us, or how much it makes us want to appear. Inside, I always say that I have 'me', me lives in a little glass ball, me learned to not trust too easily although it is in my nature to think the best of everyone, me learned through hard and horrible experiences to hide in the little ball and feared anyone getting too close incase they broke the glass and left me without shelter. So what does me do, well me puts a gloss and veneer on the outside to make it strong, it puts up warning signs so that the ball vibrates when someone comes too close and develops all sorts of bigass attitude to frighten away anyone who might cause hurt.

 

Trouble is, the one thing me needs is love, affection, affirmation that me is lovable and good enough. Therein lies the kicker. Me lets in The One, basks in their love, stretches and grows because me has love and is loved and look world, someone so wonderful loves me, so I must be good enough. Right?

 

Then The One takes a big hammer, smashes the glass and there is no place to hide anymore, the safe place has gone. Believe me, no one will ever come near my glass ball with a hammer again, even though I recognise why I let them in the first place. Power in a relationship is an illusion, we all want and need love, it makes us blind, it is a basic human need, it makes us who we are, how we and others see us.

 

It is a choice to decide whether to give up that power or to share it with someone, it is also a choice to take it. Ideally everyone would realise that the greatest power is simply giving someone truth so that they have the same choices, same version of their relationship so that they make decisions. For me, truth, whether to ourselves or others is a huge thing, tis massive power and should be the basis for all our actions.

 

Power isn't because someone sneaks off to see you, or because you(BS) take someone back after a D Day, power is being able to say this is what works for me, this is my line in the sand, this is what makes me be able to look in the mirror each day and be content that I am the best person I can be and that The One recognises that and respects it.

 

Good for you Sunset, I appreciate it must be very hard to not be with someone who you love, but if he cannot commit his love to you by being with you, it takes a great deal of power to say, I want and need .... rather than just accepting. I wish all things good for you.

Edited March 9, 2011 by seren
just words

[findingnemo]

Thank you' date=' Nemo! for the bolded. This is what I was missing. And its such a simple and to the point answer that I just didn't think of. I was thinking that the power was being given away for the [i']ultimate[/i] goal of being with him fulltime (as in married, or equivalent). I didn't consider that some time was better than no time. I'm an all-or-nothing person.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

Hey, so long as you aren't waiting as in doing nothing socially in the hopes that he might leave one day or keeping your heart closed to other potential Rs, I wouldn't say you're still giving away your power. But if you are still only ever considering being with him while not in an affair, I'd say he still has it to a degree.

 

It takes time to move from A to NC to truly able to commit to another R for some. If you are still holding out that kind of hope to be with him, I'd only be concerned if its still the case in a year or two.

 

Good luck, Nemo. Thanks for your response.

 

Thanks, NID. I realized that MM still has "my" power to a certain extent (..he will never know though) all thanks to your question. I am not dating and frankly need a break from Rs of any nature. As for the time it takes to move on, our A ended over 7 years ago and though I got married and had a family, I failed to fully commit. I highly doubt that another 2 or 3 years will make a difference to how I feel.

 

PS. I will start another thread with an update on MM later.

[findingnemo]

SunsetRed said..."Its just that my stupid heart won't cooperate.." Such profound truth!!!! I'm going into a meeting but have this to say:

 

The women you are talking about, the ones who are successful , intelligent, in control but still in an A are a paradox. If you asked them why they would allow that kind of treatment, they can't tell you because they don't know the answer. If they did, they would have broken what seems like the "love spell" keeping them in the A. I'm in an EA (learned that on LS) and if it wasn't for my feelings for MM, I would have moved on a long time ago. I tried everything, I plotted and I planned and I executed what seemed like good exit strategies. But you know what.. ..."Its just that my stupid heart won't cooperate.."

 

How many times have I asked myself why I continue to feel so much for someone who has caused me so much grief? Can't I feel pity on myself? I grew up reading Mills & Boon, Harlequin, Barbara Cartland, Danielle Steel, etc. Those books showed me that there is a kind of love that when found will make you sing. It would send shivers down my spine, it would make me whole. I learned that there was a Mr. Right for me, my own personal knight in shining armour. When my eyes read the words, and my brain understood them, my heart took them literally. And so one day I met him - the one. I knew he was the one because of the physical reaction I had. Hell, I still have it though it is easier to control it now. No other man has made me feel the way he does. I kid you not. When we make love, it is almost spiritual. I have never felt that with someone else. So you know what, my heart is adamant. It knows what it knows. HE is the ONE and until another comes along and makes me "feel" again, my heart will not let me do what my brain says I should. Does that make sense? I demand to have that kind of love - no less.

 

So perhaps the only reason that a woman who is otherwise intelligent, in control, who has it all together, may subjugate herself (give away her power) to a man is because the man has something that she can't easily find somewhere else. If he is her H and he loves her, then the position she is in may not be bad. If he is an MM in an A, can you imagine what he can get away with?

[findingnemo]

I think we all are shaped and formed by our life experiences, we just don't recognise when and how it changes us, or how much it makes us want to appear. Inside, I always say that I have 'me', me lives in a little glass ball, me learned to not trust too easily although it is in my nature to think the best of everyone, me learned through hard and horrible experiences to hide in the little ball and feared anyone getting too close incase they broke the glass and left me without shelter. So what does me do, well me puts a gloss and veneer on the outside to make it strong, it puts up warning signs so that the ball vibrates when someone comes too close and develops all sorts of bigass attitude to frighten away anyone who might cause hurt.

 

Trouble is, the one thing me needs is love, affection, affirmation that me is lovable and good enough. Therein lies the kicker. Me lets in The One, basks in their love, stretches and grows because me has love and is loved and look world, someone so wonderful loves me, so I must be good enough. Right?

 

Then The One takes a big hammer, smashes the glass and there is no place to hide anymore, the safe place has gone. Believe me, no one will ever come near my glass ball with a hammer again, even though I recognise why I let them in the first place. Power in a relationship is an illusion, we all want and need love, it makes us blind, it is a basic human need, it makes us who we are, how we and others see us.

 

It is a choice to decide whether to give up that power or to share it with someone, it is also a choice to take it. Ideally everyone would realise that the greatest power is simply giving someone truth so that they have the same choices, same version of their relationship so that they make decisions. For me, truth, whether to ourselves or others is a huge thing, tis massive power and should be the basis for all our actions.

 

Power isn't because someone sneaks off to see you, or because you(BS) take someone back after a D Day, power is being able to say this is what works for me, this is my line in the sand, this is what makes me be able to look in the mirror each day and be content that I am the best person I can be and that The One recognises that and respects it.

 

Good for you Sunset, I appreciate it must be very hard to not be with someone who you love, but if he cannot commit his love to you by being with you, it takes a great deal of power to say, I want and need .... rather than just accepting. I wish all things good for you.

 

 

Shoot...I posted my thoughts before reading this. This is what I'm saying too, Seren.

[woinlove]

I think we all are shaped and formed by our life experiences, we just don't recognise when and how it changes us, or how much it makes us want to appear. Inside, I always say that I have 'me', me lives in a little glass ball, me learned to not trust too easily although it is in my nature to think the best of everyone, me learned through hard and horrible experiences to hide in the little ball and feared anyone getting too close incase they broke the glass and left me without shelter. So what does me do, well me puts a gloss and veneer on the outside to make it strong, it puts up warning signs so that the ball vibrates when someone comes too close and develops all sorts of bigass attitude to frighten away anyone who might cause hurt.

 

Trouble is, the one thing me needs is love, affection, affirmation that me is lovable and good enough. Therein lies the kicker. Me lets in The One, basks in their love, stretches and grows because me has love and is loved and look world, someone so wonderful loves me, so I must be good enough. Right?

 

Then The One takes a big hammer, smashes the glass and there is no place to hide anymore, the safe place has gone. Believe me, no one will ever come near my glass ball with a hammer again, even though I recognise why I let them in the first place. Power in a relationship is an illusion, we all want and need love, it makes us blind, it is a basic human need, it makes us who we are, how we and others see us.

 

It is a choice to decide whether to give up that power or to share it with someone, it is also a choice to take it. Ideally everyone would realise that the greatest power is simply giving someone truth so that they have the same choices, same version of their relationship so that they make decisions. For me, truth, whether to ourselves or others is a huge thing, tis massive power and should be the basis for all our actions.

 

Power isn't because someone sneaks off to see you, or because you(BS) take someone back after a D Day, power is being able to say this is what works for me, this is my line in the sand, this is what makes me be able to look in the mirror each day and be content that I am the best person I can be and that The One recognises that and respects it.

Good for you Sunset, I appreciate it must be very hard to not be with someone who you love, but if he cannot commit his love to you by being with you, it takes a great deal of power to say, I want and need .... rather than just accepting. I wish all things good for you.

 

What a great post, Seren. I particularly like the bolded. So many insightful points.

 

And, Sunset, Seren is absolutely right - it takes a lot of power to not accept less than what you need and want. Good for you!

[OWoman]

Speaking as the ex wife, I did that too, gave away my power. I have taken it back now. I got a divorce. I believe the reason for giving your power away is because you are the one who loves the most. There is always one in every relationship who loves more. The other one has the power.

 

This is why I believe in being "equally yoked" when it comes to love. It's no good if one loves more than the other - then the power balance is skewed. If both love equally, passionately and as a priority, then power can be shared.

[OWoman]

I believe that to be true. The man in question has something that the woman can't easily find somewhere else. That gives him power over her whether or not they are married. The husband can get away with as much as the MM can.

 

Fortunately, some relationships are more equal, and the woman in question also has something the man can't easily find somewhere else. Those are the best relationships.

 

My H has something I can't find elsewhere - my heart. And I have something he can't find elsewhere - his heart. :love:

[East7]

SunsetRed said..."Its just that my stupid heart won't cooperate.." Such profound truth!!!! I'm going into a meeting but have this to say:

 

The women you are talking about, the ones who are successful , intelligent, in control but still in an A are a paradox. If you asked them why they would allow that kind of treatment, they can't tell you because they don't know the answer. If they did, they would have broken what seems like the "love spell" keeping them in the A. I'm in an EA (learned that on LS) and if it wasn't for my feelings for MM, I would have moved on a long time ago. I tried everything, I plotted and I planned and I executed what seemed like good exit strategies. But you know what.. ..."Its just that my stupid heart won't cooperate.."

 

...

 

And so one day I met him - the one. I knew he was the one because of the physical reaction I had. Hell, I still have it though it is easier to control it now. No other man has made me feel the way he does. I kid you not. When we make love, it is almost spiritual. I have never felt that with someone else. So you know what, my heart is adamant. It knows what it knows. HE is the ONE and until another comes along and makes me "feel" again, my heart will not let me do what my brain says I should. Does that make sense? I demand to have that kind of love - no less.

 

I believe that attraction isn't a choice no matter if the subject is a man or a woman. When I first came on LS and said I fell in love with a MW regardless my experiences in relationships or good self-esteem, and I couldn't stop to fall for her, I got many "no-no" from other posters, who would tell me how I'm wrong and responsible for my feelings.

 

Sharing a woman with her H was a humiliating experience for me, still I had a very hard time to let her go because I really loved her. I felt she was the one and I would move mountains to be with her. I had LTR before with single girls and no one had made me feel the same chemistry I found with xMW.

I got the power back only when I gave up my expectations and hopes. There is nothing worse than loosing hope. Fortunately for me it was also a turn-off.

 

Speaking as the ex wife, I did that too, gave away my power. I have taken it back now. I got a divorce. I believe the reason for giving your power away is because you are the one who loves the most. There is always one in every relationship who loves more. The other one has the power.

 

I strongly believe that too. The one who loves the less is always the boss (no matter if it is a LTR, M or A). There are only few relationships where love and dedication are truly perfectly balanced. Even when it seems balanced there is a slight difference on the degree of the attachment. Besides, relationships evolute with time, what was balanced once is not always true in time.

[Silly_Girl]

I believe that to be true. The man in question has something that the woman can't easily find somewhere else. That gives him power over her whether or not they are married. The husband can get away with as much as the MM can.

 

Fortunately, some relationships are more equal, and the woman in question also has something the man can't easily find somewhere else. Those are the best relationships.

 

You're right. And it's how my bf and I view our relationship. There are times one needs the other more, then it goes back the other way.

[lovingwhatis]

Oh Seren, when I read your posts first thing in the morning I get this jolting by the power of what you've expressed! And it is a good jolting. I am really liking this discussion now, and at first I couldn't quite relate to it. Actually a lot of posts really resonated, but I will start here.

 

I agree with you that power is an illusion. Specifically power over others is an illusion. They will do what they will do. I mean, people can manage to control over others and gain a sense of power, but it is totally an illusion. We have power over what we do and say, but again in terms of will-power I also believe that is an illusion. You've described many people's attempts at self-protection well. The glass ball gives us the "feeling" of security, and by function power over our lives, but that is just a glass ball. I for one am glad when people have shattered my glass ball in life. The only thing more powerful than that is when I can shatter it myself, but at times that becomes a difficult task. I don't want a class ball to separate me from life. I want to feel it all, the pain and heartbreak included.

 

So going back to power in relationships. Yeah, I can clamor for power, and make myself feel better, or I can let Truth shatter it all and look at things with fresh eyes. And if another is ready to walk by me, and we connect to each other, if not they are absolutely free to walk away. I wish them nothing but the best.

 

The beauty of the shattering of illusions is that I don't Need anyone to love me. Whether they do or don't is completely besides the point.

 

 

I think we all are shaped and formed by our life experiences, we just don't recognise when and how it changes us, or how much it makes us want to appear. Inside, I always say that I have 'me', me lives in a little glass ball, me learned to not trust too easily although it is in my nature to think the best of everyone, me learned through hard and horrible experiences to hide in the little ball and feared anyone getting too close incase they broke the glass and left me without shelter. So what does me do, well me puts a gloss and veneer on the outside to make it strong, it puts up warning signs so that the ball vibrates when someone comes too close and develops all sorts of bigass attitude to frighten away anyone who might cause hurt.

 

Trouble is, the one thing me needs is love, affection, affirmation that me is lovable and good enough. Therein lies the kicker. Me lets in The One, basks in their love, stretches and grows because me has love and is loved and look world, someone so wonderful loves me, so I must be good enough. Right?

 

Then The One takes a big hammer, smashes the glass and there is no place to hide anymore, the safe place has gone. Believe me, no one will ever come near my glass ball with a hammer again, even though I recognise why I let them in the first place. Power in a relationship is an illusion, we all want and need love, it makes us blind, it is a basic human need, it makes us who we are, how we and others see us.

 

It is a choice to decide whether to give up that power or to share it with someone, it is also a choice to take it. Ideally everyone would realise that the greatest power is simply giving someone truth so that they have the same choices, same version of their relationship so that they make decisions. For me, truth, whether to ourselves or others is a huge thing, tis massive power and should be the basis for all our actions.

 

Power isn't because someone sneaks off to see you, or because you(BS) take someone back after a D Day, power is being able to say this is what works for me, this is my line in the sand, this is what makes me be able to look in the mirror each day and be content that I am the best person I can be and that The One recognises that and respects it.

 

Good for you Sunset, I appreciate it must be very hard to not be with someone who you love, but if he cannot commit his love to you by being with you, it takes a great deal of power to say, I want and need .... rather than just accepting. I wish all things good for you.

[lovingwhatis]

And that story is so wild! It is amazing that strong woman went through that. What a contradiction.

 

As far as lying is concerned, I really feel that deep down we know, we just choose not to see it. We don't need another's truth in order to follow our truth.

 

The only time I have remained in a R beyond the point where I knew I had to get out was in a R where my xbf's father was in the ICU, and I felt it was too harsh to break up at that time. It was excruciating though. He even cheated on me right at the end, I never learned the truth from him but I Knew on a deeper level.

 

I have a very good friend who had been in an A for 15 years, she is one of the most assertive, got it together women I have known. She is heavily involved in Women's movements, equality groups at a National level a Union official and takes no crap from anyone. Yet, I watched while she turned herself into knots waiting for the MM to ring, would drop everything just to spend an hour with him and spoke about their future when they would be together when his wife had a new kidney (seriously), when their daughter graduated, when the grandchild grew up, just add a when .. It made no sense to me, she made excuses for him when he didn't turn up, excuses when he didn't show at her grandson's funeral or her father's.

 

As cynical as I am, I believed him when he said he wouldn't hurt her, that his marriage was just for him being a carer to his sick wife, until I met his wife and saw that he was a liar. He dumped my friend in a heartbeat when he retired and would no longer bump into her. I saw my friend crumple, she was never the same afterwards, lost her pazazz as she doubted everything she believed to be true and her self belief. His 'love' gave her confidence, she relinquished her power to him because she loved and believed in him. Dammed sad and never made any sense.

 

As a BS, I never felt I relinquished power, even on D Day, in fact on D Day I had the truth and was so relieved that I hadn't been going crazy (gaslighting is a bitch) I felt pretty powerful. Informed choice gives everyone power. If people in an A are truthful with each other, then I don't agree that there is a power struggle. Lying gives someone the opportunity for you (general) to base your actions, your acceptance or not of a situation based upon understood norms. If you are lied to, your choices are based on sand, simply because the situation isn't being read right. Now I am rambling, again ....

[fooled once]

I have a very good friend who had been in an A for 15 years, she is one of the most assertive, got it together women I have known. She is heavily involved in Women's movements, equality groups at a National level a Union official and takes no crap from anyone. Yet, I watched while she turned herself into knots waiting for the MM to ring, would drop everything just to spend an hour with him and spoke about their future when they would be together when his wife had a new kidney (seriously), when their daughter graduated, when the grandchild grew up, just add a when .. It made no sense to me, she made excuses for him when he didn't turn up, excuses when he didn't show at her grandson's funeral or her father's.

 

As cynical as I am, I believed him when he said he wouldn't hurt her, that his marriage was just for him being a carer to his sick wife, until I met his wife and saw that he was a liar. He dumped my friend in a heartbeat when he retired and would no longer bump into her. I saw my friend crumple, she was never the same afterwards, lost her pazazz as she doubted everything she believed to be true and her self belief. His 'love' gave her confidence, she relinquished her power to him because she loved and believed in him. Dammed sad and never made any sense.

 

As a BS, I never felt I relinquished power, even on D Day, in fact on D Day I had the truth and was so relieved that I hadn't been going crazy (gaslighting is a bitch) I felt pretty powerful. Informed choice gives everyone power. If people in an A are truthful with each other, then I don't agree that there is a power struggle. Lying gives someone the opportunity for you (general) to base your actions, your acceptance or not of a situation based upon understood norms. If you are lied to, your choices are based on sand, simply because the situation isn't being read right. Now I am rambling, again ....

 

I think we all are shaped and formed by our life experiences, we just don't recognise when and how it changes us, or how much it makes us want to appear. Inside, I always say that I have 'me', me lives in a little glass ball, me learned to not trust too easily although it is in my nature to think the best of everyone, me learned through hard and horrible experiences to hide in the little ball and feared anyone getting too close incase they broke the glass and left me without shelter. So what does me do, well me puts a gloss and veneer on the outside to make it strong, it puts up warning signs so that the ball vibrates when someone comes too close and develops all sorts of bigass attitude to frighten away anyone who might cause hurt.

 

Trouble is, the one thing me needs is love, affection, affirmation that me is lovable and good enough. Therein lies the kicker. Me lets in The One, basks in their love, stretches and grows because me has love and is loved and look world, someone so wonderful loves me, so I must be good enough. Right?

 

Then The One takes a big hammer, smashes the glass and there is no place to hide anymore, the safe place has gone. Believe me, no one will ever come near my glass ball with a hammer again, even though I recognise why I let them in the first place. Power in a relationship is an illusion, we all want and need love, it makes us blind, it is a basic human need, it makes us who we are, how we and others see us.

 

It is a choice to decide whether to give up that power or to share it with someone, it is also a choice to take it. Ideally everyone would realise that the greatest power is simply giving someone truth so that they have the same choices, same version of their relationship so that they make decisions. For me, truth, whether to ourselves or others is a huge thing, tis massive power and should be the basis for all our actions.

 

Power isn't because someone sneaks off to see you, or because you(BS) take someone back after a D Day, power is being able to say this is what works for me, this is my line in the sand, this is what makes me be able to look in the mirror each day and be content that I am the best person I can be and that The One recognises that and respects it.

 

Good for you Sunset, I appreciate it must be very hard to not be with someone who you love, but if he cannot commit his love to you by being with you, it takes a great deal of power to say, I want and need .... rather than just accepting. I wish all things good for you.

 

Beautiful post Seren.

 

I personally don't get the 'power' thing - at least not in my marriage(s). I admit to being a control freak but I am not a doormat nor do I 'wait' for anyone. I am rather independent and sometimes even my H hasn't quite figured out I WANT to be with him; I don't NEED to be with him. There is a big difference

[NoIDidn't]

The discussion is getting interesting. Thanks.

 

More and more posters though are starting to sound like "power" is synonymous with "self-respect". Is that really the case? Can they be interchanged in that way?

[findingnemo]

The discussion is getting interesting. Thanks.

 

More and more posters though are starting to sound like "power" is synonymous with "self-respect". Is that really the case? Can they be interchanged in that way?

 

That's a good observation, NID. I don't think that "giving away your power" means giving away your self-respect. In a normal R, both parties need to give up some power by compromising on certain things. But that's more like an exchange, isn't it? He gives and so does she. In an A, one person ends up doing most of the compromising ie. giving away ALL their power. Once this happens, that person will begin to suffer the consequences including a loss of self-respect.

[Silly_Girl]

That's a good observation, NID. I don't think that "giving away your power" means giving away your self-respect. In a normal R, both parties need to give up some power by compromising on certain things. But that's more like an exchange, isn't it? He gives and so does she. In an A, one person ends up doing most of the compromising ie. giving away ALL their power. Once this happens, that person will begin to suffer the consequences including a loss of self-respect.

 

Firstly, that's possibly your experience of affairs (you concede all power, it's not an exchange as in a 'normal' R) but from what I've read here it's not everyone's opinion. I think the power is different in an affair. Whilst one party possibly has more say over practical arrangements, the other often has power, should they choose to use it, to substantially impact on the MP's life. That aspect of power is unlikely to exist in a non-A relationship.

 

Secondly, I just read your post to say exactly what you said it didn't... What you wrote left me thinking that it's your view that loss of power and self-respect occurs simultaneously.

[woinlove]

Firstly, that's possibly your experience of affairs (you concede all power, it's not an exchange as in a 'normal' R) but from what I've read here it's not everyone's opinion. I think the power is different in an affair. Whilst one party possibly has more say over practical arrangements, the other often has power, should they choose to use it, to substantially impact on the MP's life. That aspect of power is unlikely to exist in a non-A relationship.

 

Secondly, I just read your post to say exactly what you said it didn't... What you wrote left me thinking that it's your view that loss of power and self-respect occurs simultaneously.

 

By the bolded, do you mean the AP could "out" the affair, such as telling the BS, and impact on the MP's life in that way? If so, that is an interesting aspect of power in an A which is unlikely to exist in a non-A.

 

In the context of the self-respect, I wonder which way that particular power goes. From stories here, I have the impression that, unless the A has already ended, once an AP is even entertaining the idea of outing their MP, self-respect is likely to be low. It seems like a somewhat extreme action - typically impacting on at least 2 lives, often more if the MP has children or close family. I wonder if an AP doing that feels powerful or desperate or both and what it does for self-esteem.

[Silly_Girl]

By the bolded, do you mean the AP could "out" the affair, such as telling the BS, and impact on the MP's life in that way? If so, that is an interesting aspect of power in an A which is unlikely to exist in a non-A.

 

Exactly. Messy, as a concept, but it gets discussed fairly frequently on the board and certainly happens from time to time.

[woinlove]

Exactly. Messy, as a concept, but it gets discussed fairly frequently on the board and certainly happens from time to time.

 

I seem to recall at least one case where this happened and it didn't even end the affair - one has to wonder how that works.

Also, I can imagine a MP feeling like they have to continue an A under threat of the AP outing them. So there definitely could be some power/control there.

[findingnemo]

Firstly, that's possibly your experience of affairs (you concede all power, it's not an exchange as in a 'normal' R) but from what I've read here it's not everyone's opinion. I think the power is different in an affair. Whilst one party possibly has more say over practical arrangements, the other often has power, should they choose to use it, to substantially impact on the MP's life. That aspect of power is unlikely to exist in a non-A relationship.

 

Secondly, I just read your post to say exactly what you said it didn't... What you wrote left me thinking that it's your view that loss of power and self-respect occurs simultaneously.

 

 

Yes, SG. That's definitely my experience with the one affair I've had. I gave up ALL my power. I had no real control over when we would see each other. The times we spoke on the phone were restricted to "working hours", he cancelled appointments with me to cater to "family" issues, spending the night together was a miracle, etc. The worst thing of all was that he had a life I knew nothing about. Anybody in that sitch will start to feel bad/small/unimportant/second rate. Those feelings are generally associated with a reduction of self-esteem, self-respect.

 

Don't you think it's the same for many OWs? It can't have been unique to me.

[findingnemo]

Firstly, that's possibly your experience of affairs (you concede all power, it's not an exchange as in a 'normal' R) but from what I've read here it's not everyone's opinion. I think the power is different in an affair. Whilst one party possibly has more say over practical arrangements, the other often has power, should they choose to use it, to substantially impact on the MP's life. That aspect of power is unlikely to exist in a non-A relationship.

 

Secondly, I just read your post to say exactly what you said it didn't... What you wrote left me thinking that it's your view that loss of power and self-respect occurs simultaneously.

 

I need to add something here. NID is referring to an on-going A in which it appears most MPs dictate the terms, right? How then can the ability of the AP to blackmail the MP be considered "power"? How would that work exactly? If MM doesn't spare time for me, can I threaten him with telling his W about us?

 

As someone pointed out in another thread, all control/power is really an illusion which can be easily shattered. Whatever R I'm in and whatever the control my partner has over me, ultimately, I can opt out. In an A, everybody has the power to end it too. Perhaps the difference is in the variety, ie. simply saying it's over, outing one's partner or pulling boiler bunny stunts.

[donnamaybe]

Secondly, I just read your post to say exactly what you said it didn't... What you wrote left me thinking that it's your view that loss of power and self-respect occurs simultaneously.

Actually, what I got from that was that letting someone else take away your power, as in you are giving and enduring more than they are, you are in turn giving away your self respect, thus you lose some of it.

 

And, yes, in many MANY A situations I see this. At least on LS. Fortunately, I've also seen many take back their self respect and refuse to lose it again (those are the posters who have been labeled ROW), and THAT makes me happy for those people. Yeah, yeah, I have seen some say, "But I'm happy now, and that's all that matters," but then elsewhere (and I've seen it) the same people (and this is more than just one) say how after all the time that has passed they doubt their AP's intentions and are worried they won't leave their spouse and they are waiting, waiting, waiting. I'm sorry, but THAT is a total giveaway of your "power" or self respect, IMO. Waiting for someone else to decide how your life will play out? Sometimes for years and even half a decade or more in some cases? The AP has ALL the power in that situation.

[donnamaybe]

Yes, SG. That's definitely my experience with the one affair I've had. I gave up ALL my power. I had no real control over when we would see each other. The times we spoke on the phone were restricted to "working hours", he cancelled appointments with me to cater to "family" issues, spending the night together was a miracle, etc. The worst thing of all was that he had a life I knew nothing about. Anybody in that sitch will start to feel bad/small/unimportant/second rate. Those feelings are generally associated with a reduction of self-esteem, self-respect.

 

Don't you think it's the same for many OWs? It can't have been unique to me.

And that is the aspect that some folks just can't cop to, and it's unfortunate because, at least for me, I would SO prop them up verbally as best I can; try to empower them emotionally to choose better for themselves, regardless if it's with their AP or without them. I don't have this "squash the A relationship" vendetta. Not at all. I do, however, have a "squash the lying, sneaking, and slithering about" that WS have to do to continue their A.