Giving Away Your Power

[Silly_Girl]

Yes, SG. That's definitely my experience with the one affair I've had. I gave up ALL my power. I had no real control over when we would see each other. The times we spoke on the phone were restricted to "working hours", he cancelled appointments with me to cater to "family" issues, spending the night together was a miracle, etc. The worst thing of all was that he had a life I knew nothing about. Anybody in that sitch will start to feel bad/small/unimportant/second rate. Those feelings are generally associated with a reduction of self-esteem, self-respect.

 

Don't you think it's the same for many OWs? It can't have been unique to me.

 

I would imagine it's not unique to you. But it also doesn't represent all the threads I've seen here.

 

Is this a new trend? Not just you FN but it seems that there's a real bent lately on this board, towards 'my experience is everyone's experience'.

 

I have not frequently heard an OW post on here describing a night together as 'a miracle'.

[findingnemo]

I would imagine it's not unique to you. But it also doesn't represent all the threads I've seen here.

 

Is this a new trend? Not just you FN but it seems that there's a real bent lately on this board, towards 'my experience is everyone's experience'.

 

I have not frequently heard an OW post on here describing a night together as 'a miracle'.

 

:lmao::lmao:the bolded part is hilarious!!! Unfortunately it was true in my case.

 

I don't know about the new trend. I didn't mean to say that my experience is everybody's either. I did ask you if I was unique, didn't I?

 

So the trend before I joined was to post an opinion or advice based on ALL experiences on this board?

[Silly_Girl]

:lmao::lmao:the bolded part is hilarious!!! Unfortunately it was true in my case.

 

I don't know about the new trend. I didn't mean to say that my experience is everybody's either. I did ask you if I was unique, didn't I?

 

So the trend before I joined was to post an opinion or advice based on ALL experiences on this board?

 

Nope. You just seemed a little taken aback when I suggested yours wasn't the norm. Before my guy told his wife about he and I, he was sometimes obliged elsewhere, same as me. He had to fit in with me just as much as I had to fit in with him. And I am under the impression I am far from unique in that also.

 

The picture you painted was quite a sad one. I feel bad for you, and glad you're no longer feeling that way.

[findingnemo]

Nope. You just seemed a little taken aback when I suggested yours wasn't the norm. Before my guy told his wife about he and I, he was sometimes obliged elsewhere, same as me. He had to fit in with me just as much as I had to fit in with him. And I am under the impression I am far from unique in that also.

 

The picture you painted was quite a sad one. I feel bad for you, and glad you're no longer feeling that way.

 

I think your case is not unique but also doesn't happen often. Before I came to LS, I had no idea that many As follow a similar script. I wish more OWs could be assertive from the get go. Hmmm...then they wouldn't be OWs, right? I wasn't because I didn't know how to be. Now I do!!!

[2sunny]

spending the night together was a miracle, etc.

 

I have not frequently heard an OW post on here describing a night together as 'a miracle'.

 

Miracle - noun

 

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of god.

 

 

 

i hardly think that such a selfish and self serving act (actions) - at the expense of others- would be determined as a "miracle". i'd venture to say that is is simply what it is - selfishness at its' highest level serving the ones involved in making it happen. when we need to "make it happen" it automatically becomes the farthest thing from a "miracle." that is truly self will.

 

see how that works? :lmao:

[Silly_Girl]

I think your case is not unique but also doesn't happen often. Before I came to LS, I had no idea that many As follow a similar script. I wish more OWs could be assertive from the get go. Hmmm...then they wouldn't be OWs, right? I wasn't because I didn't know how to be. Now I do!!!

 

Assertive women do not become involved in affairs?

[donnamaybe]

Assertive women do not become involved in affairs?

Not the kind of A where they hang on every moment their MM can spare them and obsess over whether he will leave his spouse or not and then wait for year after year after year for SOMETHING to happen besides the same ol' same ol'.

[Silly_Girl]

Not the kind of A where they hang on every moment their MM can spare them and obsess over whether he will leave his spouse or not and then wait for year after year after year for SOMETHING to happen besides the same ol' same ol'.

 

That is how all affairs are, in your view Donna? Do you accept there's a lot that aren't?

[donnamaybe]

That is how all affairs are, in your view Donna?

Nope. Never said that. I've just seen many of that very type here on LS. That's why I said "Not the kind of A..." Makes me sad for those poor people.

[2sunny]

That is how all affairs are, in your view Donna? Do you accept there's a lot that aren't?

 

Nope. Never said that. I've just seen many of that very type here on LS. That's why I said "Not the kind of A..." Makes me sad for those poor people.

 

 

Assertive women do not become involved in affairs?

 

 

just for clarity - of which affair might we be referring...??? she (OP) refers to her business relationship - but it all gets CLOUDY only when she brings in her personal relationship with her f?MM... if things are to stay healthy = it can't be both without the pain... there's a BIG difference here between the definition of 1 and 2 - then 7 and 8. the big change that makes it all look different are when FEELINGS that come into play.

 

that tells you = keep feelings out of business transactions.

 

 

af·fair (-fâr)

n.

1. Something done or to be done; business.

2. affairs Transactions and other matters of professional or public business: affairs of state.

3.

a. An occurrence, event, or matter: The senator's death was a tragic affair.

b. A social function.

4. An object or a contrivance: Their first car was a ramshackle affair.

5. A matter of personal concern.

6. affairs Personal business: get one's affairs in order.

7. A matter causing public scandal and controversy: the Dreyfus affair.

8. A romantic and sexual relationship, sometimes one of brief duration, between two people who are not married to each other.

[findingnemo]

just for clarity - of which affair might we be referring...??? she (OP) refers to her business relationship - but it all gets CLOUDY only when she brings in her personal relationship with her f?MM... if things are to stay healthy = it can't be both without the pain... there's a BIG difference here between the definition of 1 and 2 - then 7 and 8. the big change that makes it all look different are when FEELINGS that come into play.

 

that tells you = keep feelings out of business transactions.

 

 

af·fair (-fâr)

n.

1. Something done or to be done; business.

2. affairs Transactions and other matters of professional or public business: affairs of state.

3.

a. An occurrence, event, or matter: The senator's death was a tragic affair.

b. A social function.

4. An object or a contrivance: Their first car was a ramshackle affair.

5. A matter of personal concern.

6. affairs Personal business: get one's affairs in order.

7. A matter causing public scandal and controversy: the Dreyfus affair.

8. A romantic and sexual relationship, sometimes one of brief duration, between two people who are not married to each other.

 

2Sunny, yes, business + affair = disaster but I think you are talking about another thread I posted. . This thread discusses how APs give all control to MPs:).

[findingnemo]

Miracle - noun

 

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of god.

 

 

 

i hardly think that such a selfish and self serving act (actions) - at the expense of others- would be determined as a "miracle". i'd venture to say that is is simply what it is - selfishness at its' highest level serving the ones involved in making it happen. when we need to "make it happen" it automatically becomes the farthest thing from a "miracle." that is truly self will.

 

see how that works? :lmao:

 

 

Hmmm..."miracle" in the sense that it is extraordinary that it happened. Yes the actions were self-serving and all the words for selfish one can find. So because an act is "made to happen" and therefore a result of self-will makes it a bad thing? It can't be a miracle and can't be good? That's news to me:confused:. How many marriages are made to happen? How many people get married out of "self-will"? All these must be "bad". After all, these are a result of self-will.

 

See how that works?:lmao:

[2sunny]

Hmmm..."miracle" in the sense that it is extraordinary that it happened. Yes the actions were self-serving and all the words for selfish one can find. So because an act is "made to happen" and therefore a result of self-will makes it a bad thing? It can't be a miracle and can't be good? That's news to me:confused:. How many marriages are made to happen? How many people get married out of "self-will"? All these must be "bad". After all, these are a result of self-will.

 

See how that works?:lmao:

 

did i say any of it was bad? nope. bad is rarely a part of my vocabulary...never referred to any of it as "bad"! just pointing out the obvious... not really a miracle... it is what it is.

 

yes, marriages happen because - at times - people make the time and take the energy to have that event happen - this takes thought and effort (self will) - but i don't see how this correlates to the subject at hand.

 

you are making a BROAD brush stroke with self will being bad... it's not always - as if there is no harm to others, why would that be considered anything but great?

 

the problem (or new issues arise) when harm to others comes into play.

 

what i DID point out is that IF it's selfish or self serving; at the expense of others - it hardly deems it a "miracle."

[2sunny]

i do apologize for inter mingling the advice- you are right - that one of my posts above could/should be directed more towards your business transactions with MM- and i should have posted that reference over in your other thread...

[2sunny]

I've noticed that women in the position of OW or MW have a tendency to say in so many words "If HE wants it" or "I wonder what he thinks about us" and so on. It just got me to thinking that its just like a woman to give away her power, her chance to make her own choice and I don't know why that is.

 

I'm not really talking about Ws here, but I do know they do the same thing.

 

Does anyone know why? I'm asking sincerely. I've been told by many IRL that I don't think like the average woman (not meant as an insult or compliment, just an observation of me). And, admittedly, I don't understand the reasons that many women give away their power to the men in their lives - married to them or not.

 

Why wait on the guy? For marriage? To leave his marriage? What do we tell ourselves when we put it in the guy's hands instead of our own?

 

do i know why? well - when i USED to do it that way - it was because that's what i was TAUGHT to do growing up. i don't believe the lies i was TAUGHT any more. i don't hand over my power any longer.

 

why wait? i don't - i speak my truth now. i have choices. men have choices. once i speak MY truth - he has the ability to say yes or no to whatever it is i'm speaking about. THAT is HIS truth when he speaks to me.

 

what do we tell ourselves? well, i don't step into THAT world - but i can tell you from my experience with many of these men and women that do... all sorts of things they tell themselves come into play. mainly lies to self - that look a lot like justifying their part in it all... their behavior, manipulation, and the need to get what they think they may want - instead of just DOING what's right and staying away from the temptation.

 

if the reality of what they may be contemplating - could play out fully before they take action - many would reconsider if they really knew what they were signing up for.

[findingnemo]

did i say any of it was bad? nope. bad is rarely a part of my vocabulary...never referred to any of it as "bad"! just pointing out the obvious... not really a miracle... it is what it is.

 

yes, marriages happen because - at times - people make the time and take the energy to have that event happen - this takes thought and effort (self will) - but i don't see how this correlates to the subject at hand.

 

you are making a BROAD brush stroke with self will being bad... it's not always - as if there is no harm to others, why would that be considered anything but great?

 

the problem (or new issues arise) when harm to others comes into play.

 

what i DID point out is that IF it's selfish or self serving; at the expense of others - it hardly deems it a "miracle."

 

I got it. Was just playing around with the words.

[OWoman]

Is this a new trend? Not just you FN but it seems that there's a real bent lately on this board, towards 'my experience is everyone's experience'.

 

Sometimes I do wish that my experience was everyone's experience. Every one should have the chance to experience the depth and breadth and length of love that I've been blessed to experience and I really feel for those whose Rs don't work out that way - whether As or Ms or any other kind of R. Life is so short, love is so precious.

[NoIDidn't]

By the bolded, do you mean the AP could "out" the affair, such as telling the BS, and impact on the MP's life in that way? If so, that is an interesting aspect of power in an A which is unlikely to exist in a non-A.

 

In the context of the self-respect, I wonder which way that particular power goes. From stories here, I have the impression that, unless the A has already ended, once an AP is even entertaining the idea of outing their MP, self-respect is likely to be low. It seems like a somewhat extreme action - typically impacting on at least 2 lives, often more if the MP has children or close family. I wonder if an AP doing that feels powerful or desperate or both and what it does for self-esteem.

 

I agree, Wo. From my reading here and IRL the threat to tell the spouse happens when the OW is feeling particularly powerless. It seems to be done in an attempt to reverse the lack of power, to put fear into the MM.

 

I'm not sure I think that fear = power though.

[Breezy Trousers]

The one who loves the less is always the boss (no matter if it is a LTR, M or A). There are only few relationships where love and dedication are truly perfectly balanced. Even when it seems balanced there is a slight difference on the degree of the attachment. Besides, relationships evolute with time, what was balanced once is not always true in time.

 

Yes! A healthy relationship will be more evenly balanced .... However, all power can shift overnight, often by surprise.

 

In 1998, a man I knew from a healthclub invited me out for lunch after "grooming" me with conversation at the weight machines each morning. I told him I was married. He told me he was married, too, but had an "understanding" with his wife, mother of his FIVE children. Ugh. Well, three years later, I ran into him, and he looked depressed and lost. He was in obvious shock. He told me his wife had just left him, taking the kids. The power had dramatically shifted in their relationship, and it showed.

 

The whole notion of power is fragile and illusory ... It's really a shared agreement of sorts, but it only takes one to quit agreeing.

[2sunny]

I agree, Wo. From my reading here and IRL the threat to tell the spouse happens when the OW is feeling particularly powerless. It seems to be done in an attempt to reverse the lack of power, to put fear into the MM.

 

I'm not sure I think that fear = power though.

 

actually - if action is out of fear the power is usually handed over as soon as fear is present.

 

normally the one with the most fear has the least power...

[Summer Breeze]

This is an important topic. The subject of power regarding women and relationships with men is often obscured with feminism and social politics.

Its way more personal than that - and has to be considered with a lot of self reflection before a woman really understands what she wants and what she has to offer.

 

Ive tried to say it a million different ways but the concept is always taken as an insult to OW. Having been an OW, having been a BS , having been around the block - I can say from my heart that I only want to share with OW because I care...

 

When an OW feels she is empowered because her MM doesnt take calls from his wife when he is with OW, doesnt share a bed with his wife, defers to OW regarding issues in the marriage....

That is something I must disagree with. My telling my xMM that I don't want our time interrupted was exactly what I would have said in any R. When I'm out with someone I don't want phones going off and emails and texts dominating the time. It wasn't a demand or a deferral to me. It was how I choose to be treated and he reacted how he chose to. I wasn't asking him to treat me any differently than other men I date. To me that is retaining my power and making sure it wasn't set aside. We were never exclusive so I knew he slept with his W. I dated other men and when I found someone I enjoyed and wanted to explore a further R with I slept with him. Not a thing was asked of him that wasn't asked of other men in my life and I wouldn't let him treat me any worse than any other man. As a matter of fact he treated me better than 90% of the men I've dated. I do agree that if an OW is cowering before someone and in floods of tears and it creates a situation where he can lie then it is walking away from your power but if you set your boundaries you retain it.

 

I still say that most OW who fall to pieces and lose the power are the ones who will do that in almost any R. I believe Seren was talking about a friend who was all together and assertive and stayed as an OW for years and was a mess by the end. Being assertive and independent on the outside doesn't mean that's how you are in an R. Many strong women look for someone who takes that away from them. Not all but many.

 

It isnt a position of power. It isnt honesty.

It is demeaning to you.

 

Yes, he is treating his wife like crap behind her back. Yes, he is sharing things with you he should be sharing with her.

Yet - for whatever reasons, he is still choosing her and not willing to risk the marriage by telling his wife the truth about you.

 

Its easy to be honest when it doesnt cost you anything, when there is no risk to yourself, when you think you can take it or leave it.

 

My response above in bold.

 

Somehow I'd missed this post before!