Before going cold turkey

[Emme]

What? Not one person telling me how great that MM is making some movement? Just kidding.

 

When you get the key to his new apartment in hand we might all begin to call it movement...

[Flabbergaster]

What? Not one person telling me how great that MM is making some movement? Just kidding.

I think it's great...for him. I'm concerned that you might be caught in what is really "round 2" of cake eating.

If you distance yourself and he really does leave her, you have a chance with him. If you distance yourself and he doesn't, you're safe from his ways. Stay next to him...you'll stay in pain.

 

What I do know is that I can't possibly know what's really going on there.

CORRECT. You can't trust him to tell the truth, and you can't trust yourself to interpret the evidence objectively (you'll manipulate the interpretation in his favor)

 

Thanks for your honesty and letting me into that way of thinking. I don't understand how men who love their SO's can think like this.

Well, that's why he needs therapy.

 

Yes, he said he is making an appointment next week to see someone he saw (and liked) years ago.

Good! now that he is out of danger, he is NO LONGER your responsibility. You brought him to safety, now gohome.

 

I've already given up thinking I'll have it all, so I guess that is why I am willing to compromise what I want for love.

Wrong compromise, you'll never forgive him. Can you afford to parent on your own? If so, find sperm donor. YOu'll be too busy to worry about love, once baby comes. I know afew women doing this, in their mid to late 30s. They are HAPPY with the choice.

 

I think I will. Problem is that I'm thinking of all the great sex we can have next week when I'd be able to be with him every day of the week. So, in my mind one voice is telling me to just push it off and enjoy that time...

ROFL I swear we are kindred spirits, in a 'torture myself' kind of way. As it was falling apart...I had a few days completely free that i could have used to visit OW. Didn't even need to fake alibi. "The sex will be great!!," i told myself. The other stuff (time together, talking, holding hands, etc) would also be great. I knew we were headed to 'end'...and i knew if i showed up it would be a blast (PA and EA wise) for a few days. After thinking about it for a week or two, I realized that it would only make it harder for either of us to let go, and that it might prolong the end of the A for weeks, even months. I didn't tell her about the opportunity.

SO i drank very heavily those days...and OW never knew i was available.

Key point for you: don't make mistake of thinking you can handle 'one last fling.' The best wayto have a last fling is to call the previous one the last.

 

And the other part is thinking how it would be really good for him to have that time all alone-

It will be really good for YOU if he has all that time alone.

That week...find a speed dating event. Don't have to go on second date from it, the goal is to see 'other fish in the sea.' It's not cheating, it's MEETING people.

 

although who knows if he'd stay alone, right, Flabbergaster?

Well...the last time he was alone he immediately called another woman. That should tell you something.

 

Get away from him for now. Let him work through this. Once he's done that, decide if you still want him. If you don't give him space and time for therapy to work he won't heal properly, and he'll be just as unsettled with you as he was with her.

[lovingwhatis]

Flabbergaster, you have a way of speaking from experience that really comes through. I would only object to the speed dating thing. IME speed or online dating can complicate things. Amour could use some time alone too, and though speed dating is fairly low risk, it can burn someone who is emotionally not ready. I used to go on two coffee dates a day with guys that were perfectly nice to chat with and maybe would have been suitable to date at another time, but after a month i was exhausted and even more certain that my feelings for xmm were unique.

[Amour7]

Lovingwhatis, I connect with you, too, and am grateful, for this burgeoning friendship. I appreciate you how you tell it like it is- raw, real, and I am beginning to see, from experience. I would love to hear more of your story some day.

 

Thank you for sharing what you have about your story. I might be able to picture myself two years down the road with your wisdom, sense of self, as well as lingering heartbreak. I appreciate your honesty about missing your xMM. What is so admirable is that you have come to love yourself so much that it seems to trump the pain most of the time.

 

Thanks, and we'll be in touch.

 

Amour, if we lived in the same city I would have asked you for coffee already. I really connect with you because you are very honest, sweet and real, this is how you come through in this forum, and that's why I feel that so many people have really been in your corner. For you to come after the breakup and share what's really going on has been inspiring. You've also shed different light on your love for MM and his character, and I can definitely see why you are giving this a new chance.

 

As for me sounding like your therapist, I will take it as a compliment, though I tend to have serious qualms with therapy, and have been against it for myself (for number of reasons). But ultimately, I have reached some of the same conclusions on my own regarding the stuff beneath the surface. For that's the only thing that could rationally "explain" the irrationality of some situations. Though I am now realizing that some things just cannot be explained, but I won't go into that now...

 

i will address one thing, your feeling that you will not find a better man, or that your dreams will not be fulfilled so that's why you feel you can settle. Your love for MM is real enough and its good that you are honoring it, and not trying to completely demonize because of the A part. I mean, yes MM has redeeming qualities, and I think the heart needs just that little to hold on to hope. I will tell you one thing about myself though, even if you stop this now in the cleanest break (this is what happened to me) it is no guarantee that you will find another love. That's the harsh truth. I stopped the A at exactly the right time, things were really as clear cut as they could be, I was honest with feelings, he didn't give me any false hope with words, we went NC and it has been NC for almost 2 years. But I have not stopped loving him, nor having this glimmer of hope in the back of my mind. That's why I haven't dated, because nothing compared, and I am not willing to settle for lesser love. This means I've been alone for two years, and that aint easy. Your fears are real enough, but this is life, life doesn't promise us anything. From an eastern perspective, the suffering just is, and it is not our job to try to escape the suffering. We can transcend it, but not through trying to get what we want. Its a completely contradictory thing.

 

But there is hope in being happy with or without a relationship. That I can tell you for sure. I am at peace for the majority of the time. And when I am not, I remind myself that is part of this thing called life, and is not for me to argue and bitch about.

 

Nice talking to you. Looking forward to talking more.

[lovingwhatis]

Amour, you are sweet! And very wise, you just seem to not fully realize how wise you are yet. When I read your post yesterday, I got this sense that you are connecting with the part of you that knows what's what. And I am so glad for you! And I can't wait for you to get PM privileges so we can talk more about books and stuff. You sound like you have a great therapist, and I would just love to share some of the experiences that have helped me so much. I'd do it in a post, but I get the sense that it will be a bit too far out sounding for this board. haha I am half joking, but you know that I mean!

 

Keep being real and self-honest, and whatever you end up doing will bring you what you need to learn.

Lovingwhatis, I connect with you, too, and am grateful, for this burgeoning friendship. I appreciate you how you tell it like it is- raw, real, and I am beginning to see, from experience. I would love to hear more of your story some day.

 

Thank you for sharing what you have about your story. I might be able to picture myself two years down the road with your wisdom, sense of self, as well as lingering heartbreak. I appreciate your honesty about missing your xMM. What is so admirable is that you have come to love yourself so much that it seems to trump the pain most of the time.

 

Thanks, and we'll be in touch.

[mizliz]

Thank you, thank you... Thanks for being here and for your unconditional support. (((mizliz)))

 

I will try my best to keep emotional distance. I hadn't really thought about how painful it would be for him to separate and then decide to go back to work on his marriage. That is a real possibility, I'm sure, but actually, I think it is more likely that he won't end up leaving.

 

I will try to keep busy, too. I've been trying to go for a long run on the weekends, and it has really helped lift me up. The runner's high is a pretty good anti-depressant.

 

Good for you, Amour. And, it's my pleasure to offer support.

 

I've read your last few posts, and I can see that you are really digesting the advice and support you are receiving here.

 

I'm proud of you for balancing your emotions and love for MM, with your willingness to confront the many possible outcomes that go along with these situations.

 

You are going to be just fine - remember that, above all.

[Amour7]

I'm proud of you for balancing your emotions and love for MM, with your willingness to confront the many possible outcomes that go along with these situations.

Thanks, Mizliz, I am trying to keep a balance, avoid getting sucked back in (as WWIU cautions), and work on "me" as you have all suggested.

 

Just don't get sucked in. This is his marriage ending and if you become the one who consoles him during this, the one he runs to, the one he stays with, it WILL take it's toll on you. You two are on "hold" for a long long time. He has nothing to give, to make what you to share stronger. He has to be done with his old life before he can commit or even continue to grow with you.

 

Have NO expectations. don't put him first. Go on with your life. Let his actions show and prove to you that he is following through. Anything short of that, well, is CRAP.

 

I get that you need to see this through, okay, but don't lose "you" in the process. YOU count too. Your life is just as imporant as his. Your problems count too. So, for a while, get used to it being ALL about him.. Focus on your friends, family, good things in life and don't make him your number one until the timing shows you he can be.

 

I had a great session with my therapist today. It was two weeks ago that I was in her office feeling frenzied about needing to end it ASAP because I couldn't lose momentum, etc. Well, I had a lot of updates to share with her, and I thought her most interesting question for me was what kind of momentum I wanted to maintain now. It feels different now; it's about continuing to communicate my needs and to "try on" some different ways of being with him, and to not let myself feel like I'm being pulled back if he starts going back to status quo. After reading some recent posts and contemplating my future, I've wondered what if I did end up with MM? I'd be afraid of not being able to trust him, and I wouldn't want to continue some aspects of our dynamic, such as me being at his beckon call, willing to drop everything/everyone to make time for him, etc. So, it seems now is the time, if there ever were a time, to just "do me" as I'd want to do me in any bona fide relationship. If he doesn't like it, it's better to know sooner than later, right?

 

When you get the key to his new apartment in hand we might all begin to call it movement...

Emme, I appreciate you setting the bar high

 

Amour, you are sweet! And very wise, you just seem to not fully realize how wise you are yet. When I read your post yesterday, I got this sense that you are connecting with the part of you that knows what's what. And I am so glad for you! And I can't wait for you to get PM privileges so we can talk more about books and stuff. You sound like you have a great therapist, and I would just love to share some of the experiences that have helped me so much. I'd do it in a post, but I get the sense that it will be a bit too far out sounding for this board. haha I am half joking, but you know that I mean!

 

Keep being real and self-honest, and whatever you end up doing will bring you what you need to learn.

Thanks, as usual, LWI When do I get PM privileges? After a month? Looking forward to it!

[Amour7]

ROFL I swear we are kindred spirits, in a 'torture myself' kind of way.

I'm glad we can find humor in our "torture ourselves" ways

It will be really good for YOU if he has all that time alone.

That week...find a speed dating event. Don't have to go on second date from it, the goal is to see 'other fish in the sea.' It's not cheating, it's MEETING people.

 

Flabbergaster, you have a way of speaking from experience that really comes through. I would only object to the speed dating thing. IME speed or online dating can complicate things. Amour could use some time alone too, and though speed dating is fairly low risk, it can burn someone who is emotionally not ready. I used to go on two coffee dates a day with guys that were perfectly nice to chat with and maybe would have been suitable to date at another time, but after a month i was exhausted and even more certain that my feelings for xmm were unique.

I understand that "getting out there" and meeting people right away may work for some, but I am inclined to agree with my other kindred spirit, LWI (in a non-torture myself way ) I tried dating during one of my breaks with MM, found myself having sex to try to distract myself or numb the pain, and wound up feeling totally empty every time we'd sleep together. Oh, and lesson learned, don't ever tell anyone that's how you feel after sex Poor guy! I don't know what I was thinking...

[Jane Deaux]

Apparently you get PM privileges when you get to 50 posts! I just got mine and wasn't expecting it! Yay!

 

Quick, post 5 more times!

[Amour7]

Apparently you get PM privileges when you get to 50 posts! I just got mine and wasn't expecting it! Yay!

 

Quick, post 5 more times!

 

Lol Congrats on hitting your milestone, and I hope to join your ranks soon.

[lovingwhatis]

Oh Amour, I was so glad to read your post today! I've been thinking about it all morning, the being yourself part, how huge this is! It has brought up memories and I am re thinking some past experiences in terms of how I've wanted to "be me". Thanks for this food for thought, this is a big one that affects me a lot subconsciously.

 

You are so right, being you in this R will mean that lots of things would shift. Where once you didn't express your thoughts and emotions, now you are finding that you want to express them, and are becoming more comfortable with the possible fallbacks from that. IMO we do this in all our relationships, whether we realize it or not. There are certain unspoken bargains that we do with ourselves and others. The ones with ourselves are the more important ones though, because of our current beliefs we decide what is OK to express and what is not.

 

When I was in the EA, I was compelled to find out what it was I wanted, and also to express it to MM. Part of it was that he desperately wanted to put me in a category in his mind, he has a very analytical mind, and I think it was driving him mad that I was a contradiction. On my end, I really dislike being categorized (you do this, so you must be this type of person), so I really let him know all my thoughts, this way I figured he can make a better assessment. One interesting thing occurred though, at one point I knew where he was at (he was honest about it too, wasn't nice to hear but I appreciated it) and I did a bit of self-deception. I started questioning what I wanted out of an R in an overall sense. Maybe I could be ok with the way things are? It was a genuine question I had in my head, but of course it was prompted by his inability to give me more. I shared my thoughts with him, because he wanted to make sure that it is clear where he stood. In the end, I realized that no, I did indeed want more, and I was just afraid to admit it to myself. I couldn't have been angry at him at this point, it all had to do with me, not him.

 

So, take this as food for thought.. Your situation is a bit different in that he is promising you things that you want to believe are true. They may or may not, ultimately only time would tell. It is a bit more difficult to really decide that you will only do things that are congruent with you, since the info that you are going on can shift. But that's why I feel it is most important to listen to your heart. It will not be a thought, it will be a sense that you will get if you listen close enough.

 

As for PM privileges, I think it is a month and 50 posts, but maybe once you hit the 50 posts it will happen. That would be great!

 

So glad to have to you to talk with!

 

Thanks, Mizliz, I am trying to keep a balance, avoid getting sucked back in (as WWIU cautions), and work on "me" as you have all suggested.

 

 

 

I had a great session with my therapist today. It was two weeks ago that I was in her office feeling frenzied about needing to end it ASAP because I couldn't lose momentum, etc. Well, I had a lot of updates to share with her, and I thought her most interesting question for me was what kind of momentum I wanted to maintain now. It feels different now; it's about continuing to communicate my needs and to "try on" some different ways of being with him, and to not let myself feel like I'm being pulled back if he starts going back to status quo. After reading some recent posts and contemplating my future, I've wondered what if I did end up with MM? I'd be afraid of not being able to trust him, and I wouldn't want to continue some aspects of our dynamic, such as me being at his beckon call, willing to drop everything/everyone to make time for him, etc. So, it seems now is the time, if there ever were a time, to just "do me" as I'd want to do me in any bona fide relationship. If he doesn't like it, it's better to know sooner than later, right?

 

 

Emme, I appreciate you setting the bar high

 

 

Thanks, as usual, LWI When do I get PM privileges? After a month? Looking forward to it!

[whichwayisup]

I had a great session with my therapist today. It was two weeks ago that I was in her office feeling frenzied about needing to end it ASAP because I couldn't lose momentum, etc. Well, I had a lot of updates to share with her, and I thought her most interesting question for me was what kind of momentum I wanted to maintain now. It feels different now; it's about continuing to communicate my needs and to "try on" some different ways of being with him, and to not let myself feel like I'm being pulled back if he starts going back to status quo. After reading some recent posts and contemplating my future, I've wondered what if I did end up with MM? I'd be afraid of not being able to trust him, and I wouldn't want to continue some aspects of our dynamic, such as me being at his beckon call, willing to drop everything/everyone to make time for him, etc. So, it seems now is the time, if there ever were a time, to just "do me" as I'd want to do me in any bona fide relationship. If he doesn't like it, it's better to know sooner than later, right?

 

You have to realize right now that it's all about him. His divorce, his grieving his losses and dealing with changes. He has nothing to "give" you. Sure, in an affair he does, but outside of that? He isn't going to be there for you in the way you want him to be.

 

Once the D happens (if it actually does happen) you two need to have time and space apart. Let him be on his own. Let the A dynamic DIE completely and then start 'dating'. Rebuild trust on the merits of a new type of relationship. You can't predict anything right now, if it'll work or not work. And, that may be in the back of his head too, which is why I hope he's leaving his marriage for himself and not for you.

[mzdolphin]

My MM and I go back almost 20 years. He wasn't married when we met. I dumped him and we had no contact for 18 years. When we met again, he said he was divorced. Things were going great until I found out otherwise. Angry, I broke it off, even told his wife. Two months later he was back. Foolishly I got involved again when he said he was leaving. I broke things off again. NC for almost a year this time. Then he emails. We talk, then we were involved again a year ago. No physical contact for almost a year (we live a five hour drive apart).

 

I started seeing someone 9 months ago. Things are moving slow, but it's a healthy, mutually respectful relationship. Yes, I fantasize about MM and think we had better sexual chemistry. MM pops up again. He knows I'm seeing someone. Yesterday he called (haven't talked to him in months). Wants to rekindle physical affair. I honestly gave it some thought. I miss our sexual chemistry. But then I thought about what I was trying to build with boyfriend. I thought about how nice it was to have nightly chats with him and go over my day. I thought about how comfortable I felt staying at his place and that he could stay at my place and I could be in his arms all night without worrying about him leaving, or having to step out to make a call.

 

I thought about how hard I worked to shed that lying-scheming-cheating-on-his wife fool and that I owed it to myself, not just my boyfriend, to ignore all emails and phone calls and to NEVER get back involved with that fool. Will I think of him again? Of course. I will acknowledge the feeling. Not beat myself up for having it. But then remind myself why I ended things and say a prayer for his poor wife.

 

Hang in there. You deserve better and the moment you believe that, you will get better.

[Amour7]

Oh Amour, I was so glad to read your post today! I've been thinking about it all morning, the being yourself part, how huge this is! It has brought up memories and I am re thinking some past experiences in terms of how I've wanted to "be me". Thanks for this food for thought, this is a big one that affects me a lot subconsciously.

 

You are so right, being you in this R will mean that lots of things would shift. Where once you didn't express your thoughts and emotions, now you are finding that you want to express them, and are becoming more comfortable with the possible fallbacks from that. IMO we do this in all our relationships, whether we realize it or not. There are certain unspoken bargains that we do with ourselves and others. The ones with ourselves are the more important ones though, because of our current beliefs we decide what is OK to express and what is not.

 

When I was in the EA, I was compelled to find out what it was I wanted, and also to express it to MM. Part of it was that he desperately wanted to put me in a category in his mind, he has a very analytical mind, and I think it was driving him mad that I was a contradiction. On my end, I really dislike being categorized (you do this, so you must be this type of person), so I really let him know all my thoughts, this way I figured he can make a better assessment. One interesting thing occurred though, at one point I knew where he was at (he was honest about it too, wasn't nice to hear but I appreciated it) and I did a bit of self-deception. I started questioning what I wanted out of an R in an overall sense. Maybe I could be ok with the way things are? It was a genuine question I had in my head, but of course it was prompted by his inability to give me more. I shared my thoughts with him, because he wanted to make sure that it is clear where he stood. In the end, I realized that no, I did indeed want more, and I was just afraid to admit it to myself. I couldn't have been angry at him at this point, it all had to do with me, not him.

 

So, take this as food for thought.. Your situation is a bit different in that he is promising you things that you want to believe are true. They may or may not, ultimately only time would tell. It is a bit more difficult to really decide that you will only do things that are congruent with you, since the info that you are going on can shift. But that's why I feel it is most important to listen to your heart. It will not be a thought, it will be a sense that you will get if you listen close enough.

 

As for PM privileges, I think it is a month and 50 posts, but maybe once you hit the 50 posts it will happen. That would be great!

 

So glad to have to you to talk with!

 

Lovingwhatis, glad to have you to connect with, too, although I am at 50 posts and still no PM:(. March 2 was my join date, so it must be around the corner.

 

No updates worth noting for me right now. We'll see what the coming week brings. He wants to spend the next week together (family out of town) and I know I should keep my distance but I am aiming for a more realistic goal.

[Amour7]

To provide an update, here's what has been going on. MM's family has been out of town and he has spent the week with me. It has been wonderful to cook together, eat breakfast together, work out, do work, sleep together, wake up together, and enjoy extended time together like a real couple. Not one word, though, about his plan to move downstairs or look for an apartment. He made a few references about figuring out where he will be down the road but nothing immediate.

 

I have resisted pushing him on that because I didn't want to deny myself the companionship we can share this week. I need to bring it up but I am scared because it will feel like rejection if/when he tells me this isn't a good time. And I think he has really missed his family. I saw an email he was sending his W about how much he missed them. I am glad I have been skeptical about his plans and promises; maybe it will hurt a little less.

 

I know the right thing to do is end it he back peddles on moving out. I don't know what would be harder, though: if he doesn't put up a fight for me to stay or of he does try to persuade me to be patient and he makes more promises.

 

I intend to have the conversation today or tomorrow. I will let you know.

[greengoddess]

sigh. Believe what you saw and what you read. He misses his family. A man about to leave would not send an email like that.

Did his wife call frequently?

[2sunny]

To provide an update, here's what has been going on. MM's family has been out of town and he has spent the week with me. It has been wonderful to cook together, eat breakfast together, work out, do work, sleep together, wake up together, and enjoy extended time together like a real couple. Not one word, though, about his plan to move downstairs or look for an apartment. He made a few references about figuring out where he will be down the road but nothing immediate.

 

I have resisted pushing him on that because I didn't want to deny myself the companionship we can share this week. I need to bring it up but I am scared because it will feel like rejection if/when he tells me this isn't a good time. And I think he has really missed his family. I saw an email he was sending his W about how much he missed them. I am glad I have been skeptical about his plans and promises; maybe it will hurt a little less.

 

I know the right thing to do is end it he back peddles on moving out. I don't know what would be harder, though: if he doesn't put up a fight for me to stay or of he does try to persuade me to be patient and he makes more promises.

 

I intend to have the conversation today or tomorrow. I will let you know.

 

so this is the fantasy he will show you WHEN his family is absent... which MAY happen once or twice a year... is that enough?

 

he put you second... he will always put you second... is that enough?

 

he pretends (lies) - that you two can be happy together - IF he can just make his real life go away for a few days or a week - he can pretend that you two are single and available to have a happy pretend life together.

 

he can also pretend that he will move - but he's not DOING anything to make it happen. he's not doing anything because he doesn't INTEND to change a thing. he emails that he misses his family when he's supposedly having a GREAT time with you... so you know that he's incapable of being happy... IF he's with you = he misses them. if he's with them = he says he misses you. last time i checked a man can't be two people at the same time. so which man is he? he IS the man who will choose his family... because he worries what others will think IF he leaves... so we have evidence that he WON'T leave... he'll do just enough to be sure YOU don't leave...

 

so leave. get on with living = because he has essentially offered you NOTHING real. he's not leaving. he's shown you EVIDENCE of that!

 

he wants his family to stay intact - as he understands it... whether it's healthy or not - it IS what he knows to be familiar to HIM = that is his comfort zone. then he wants to pay attention to you ONLY as much as he needs to - in order to selfishly keep you hanging around so you don't leave him and his fantasy world.

 

he's simply a selfish and self serving man - and YOU deserve more in a man than that.

 

you deserve a man who can give you a REAL life. a life of giving himself completely. go. do. that. now.

[20Seconds]

so this is the fantasy he will show you WHEN his family is absent... which MAY happen once or twice a year... is that enough?

 

he put you second... he will always put you second... is that enough?

 

he pretends (lies) - that you two can be happy together - IF he can just make his real life go away for a few days or a week - he can pretend that you two are single and available to have a happy pretend life together.

 

he wants his family to stay intact - as he understands it... whether it's healthy or not - it IS what he knows to be familiar to HIM = that is his comfort zone. then he wants to pay attention to you ONLY as much as he needs to - in order to selfishly keep you hanging around so you don't leave him and his fantasy world.

 

 

I think this is spot on. Do you want to be this man's fantasy, or his reality? His reality is his family, who he misses when they are away. His fantasy - that's you.

 

I really wonder with this man, as I did with my own MM, that while his reality gives him comfort and security, he can;t cope with the limitations of it. It's too confining, he has to escape to a fantasy outside of it to cope with it.

 

And sadly, if that's the case, it means either you continue to be part of the fantasy world, or if YOU become the reality, he might be tempted to create another fantasy world outside of YOUR relationship.

 

As before, I would say take extreme caution with this man and his issues.

 

Be careful that you are not making this more about the challenge than about the man.

[Amour7]

so this is the fantasy he will show you WHEN his family is absent... which MAY happen once or twice a year... is that enough?

 

he put you second... he will always put you second... is that enough?

 

he pretends (lies) - that you two can be happy together - IF he can just make his real life go away for a few days or a week - he can pretend that you two are single and available to have a happy pretend life together.

 

he can also pretend that he will move - but he's not DOING anything to make it happen. he's not doing anything because he doesn't INTEND to change a thing. he emails that he misses his family when he's supposedly having a GREAT time with you... so you know that he's incapable of being happy... IF he's with you = he misses them. if he's with them = he says he misses you. last time i checked a man can't be two people at the same time. so which man is he? he IS the man who will choose his family... because he worries what others will think IF he leaves... so we have evidence that he WON'T leave... he'll do just enough to be sure YOU don't leave...

 

so leave. get on with living = because he has essentially offered you NOTHING real. he's not leaving. he's shown you EVIDENCE of that!

 

he wants his family to stay intact - as he understands it... whether it's healthy or not - it IS what he knows to be familiar to HIM = that is his comfort zone. then he wants to pay attention to you ONLY as much as he needs to - in order to selfishly keep you hanging around so you don't leave him and his fantasy world.

 

he's simply a selfish and self serving man - and YOU deserve more in a man than that.

 

you deserve a man who can give you a REAL life. a life of giving himself completely. go. do. that. now.

 

These are good points, 2sunny. He is not taking any actionable steps to move and just about anyone can see he isn't going to, so why do I hang on to his words and hope wistfully that there is some truth in them?

 

I brought up the moving to the basement thing, and he says, "well, I haven't had any time to really be with that decision and make sure it is right since I have been with you the whole week. I really need some time to figure out how and when I will have that conversation with my W." When I push him for a timeline he says he could be ready to relocate in a couple months. Then he elaborates about financial details which make me think he has given this some clear thought, and yet, he won't commit to having the conversation with her that he wants out. It is all so confusing, although to everyone else, it is probably so clear: he's not leaving. Enough of myself knows it the hard reality, too, that I am, for the 1000th time in this R, feeling like I am grieving a loss that is on the horizon.

 

So, I encouraged him to get his stuff together today and have a peaceful day/evening/next day to himself. So he is gone now and I just feel so utterly alone. I think I am willing to believe lies, and take crumbs, because it feels better than being with loneliness. I can't get a hold of my one friend who knows about this R, so having no one to share this with IRL makes it even harder. I called my mom to distract myself and she kept asking me if I had a cold and said I didn't sound well, but I couldn't bring myself to telling her what's going on. At this point, I wish she knew so she could try to understand that this is a painful time for me, but I don't feel like I can muster the emotional strength to get it out. And I certainly don't want to risk her being disappointed in me at this time.

 

I don't know what kind of support I am looking for from you on this forum. You have given me good advice before, and if I had taken it, I'd probably be in a better place. I guess that I just need to put it out there that I feel so lonely and am feeling hopeless that this will ever feel better.

[BB07]

Not one word, though, about his plan to move downstairs or look for an apartment. He made a few references about figuring out where he will be down the road but nothing immediate.

 

Ahhh Amour the above is what is called dangling the carrot.

Vaguely referring to the future so it will give you hope but not saying anything concrete because he knows deep inside he isn't able to back it up. How do I know this? Xmm used to do the same thing. He may not even be doing it maliciously he may just be not be living in the reality of what it will take to get to that point. If he thinks about the hard reality then it takes away from the moment so it's easier to just go with vague notions or he could be very aware of exactly what he is doing and planning and plotting it that way to keep you hanging on.

[mizliz]

Hang in there, sweat pea.

 

Big changes ahead for you.

[Flabbergaster]

Amour, keep it together. You're going to be better, just keep surviving the next few days of emo roller coaster.

Yes, if you listened to us earlier...whatever. Some lessons can't be taught, they must be learned. Now you understand why I argue against "one last time," because it will be so nice you'll be hurt even more. Well, your eyes are open to the futility of your position with him. So now you can get back to the program of moving on.

 

You heard the lessons, you lived enough to understand your need, the path is clear.

 

yes it's going to hurt

 

we'll be here for you. even if you did make one last attempt that we recommened against.

 

fwiw i'm happy that you had one last romantic week. Maybe even jealous...cause i want just one more. Hell the part of me that wants what is bad for me...would be thrilled for lunch at burger king, if she were there.

[Amour7]

Thanks for your support. Today I feel stronger. I woke up thinking about the thread about NC, setting boundaries, and letting go of the outcome. It made me think of the serenity prayer, which I repeated to myself a few times, to "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." I've had enough (at least for now) of trying to influence an outcome over which I have no control (him staying or leaving).

 

Then I got an email from him this morning to apologize for calling late last night, and then to let me know that he intends to take the time and space I was suggesting to "make a decision." He said he won't communicate with me until he has made a decision, so I think maybe this will be an easier go at NC. I also feel like I have said everything I need to say about my pain, my love, my needs, etc, so I hope I can draw on serenity, courage, and wisdom to keep me on course as I seek to live a life of more integrity and fulfillment.

 

Please keep believing in me and reminding me this will get better. Thanks.