anniversary problems

[uncool]

I posted this on another forum and am reposting it here:

married 17yrs 4 kids. I am the romantic type of husband who loves to spoil his wife. Every time I try to make our anniversary special she seems to fight it.

What is wrong with a nice candle lit dinner at a nice restaurant to commemorate your marriage?

This year I decided to make plans in advance. I gave her 3 choices. The first two choices were mine... then I said if that didn't sound fun she was more than welcome to choose something she wanted to do. I reminded her a few days in advance. I hinted I liked option #1... she said she didn't want to do option#1 so I dropped it thinking option#2 & #3 were what she was maybe aiming towards. My wife hates to talk or communicate in any fashion... it seems to be my job to guess what she wants. I'm just dying to get a reconnection going w/my wife. So friday night is our anniversary. I text her right before I leave the office asking her if she's ready to go out. She texts me back and says "lets talk about it when you get home". So things are already starting to fall apart. So I decide to step it up and bring home a nice bouquet of a dozen long stemmed red roses.

I made dinner reservations at 2 different restaraunts (in case she didn't like one we could go to the other) and got movie tickets to a romantic movie and also was prepared to foil all those plans in case she wanted to do something else for plan "C" .... but what did she choose?? Nothing!!!

I get home from work and she's totally avoiding me she just sits on the couch in front of the TV playing her damn cell phone game. hours go by and it's getting late. I finally just leave the house & go to dinner and a movie by myself. I'm going to at least go do something fun and take care of myself. I come home later that night.... she doesn't even question where I've been she's still sitting in front of the damn TV playing her damn cell phone game and falls a sleep on the couch while I go to bed alone.

 

So my question is "am I over reacting"? are marriage anniversaries usually no big deal to most married couples? Do most women think anniversaries are dumb?

 

I even bought her $5k worth of new furniture she's always wanted as a little gift right before our anniversary.

 

So 2 days later and out of blue she says "I'm starving lets go get something to eat"

Of course I jumped at the chance to spend time w/her. We get to her favorite restaurant and there's an hour and a half wait. She says "wow we maybe should have planned ahead and got a reservation or something"... I decided to just bite my lip and say nothing about my previous reservations the night before. So after dinner we return home... she plops in front of the TV and whips out the cell phone game and decides to spend the night on the couch again. No kiss no hand shake no hug no nothing. She sleeps on the couch a lot recently... but just this once I was hoping for her to recognize my efforts and be turned on and impressed or reward me or something. I haven't had sex in 4 months. Is a little affection or action once in a while so much to ask in a husbands efforts to make his wife happy? I'm not abusive, I have no bad habits or addictions, we don't argue or fight.... what am I missing or doing wrong?

 

I feel absolutely lonely. I try so hard. I can't win. I get slammed w/rejection every single time. I'm starting to look at other women even though I don't want to.

 

Should I just chill out and not let things like this bother me? Do most women like their man to try to make anniversaries special? or is it a turn off? or do wifes get disgusted with their husbands efforts and only think we're trying to get some?

I'm thinking of doing absolutely nothing for our next anniversary. But that might backfire also .... wtf am i supposed to do?

I'm 100% sure she's not having an affair.

[dreamingoftigers]

Does she have a seeming addiction to computer and phone gaming or something?

 

How is it going with the DB people? Follow-up is very important.

 

If she is hooked on phone and computer etc. She isn't going to notice what is going on around her. Was her lunch idea a way to reach out to you?

 

I am totally not playing Devil's Advocate but often spouses can't see each other's real efforts with each other.

 

As for the sex, is age having an issue with her drive or is it a conflict between the two of you? Dr. Daniel Amen has shown that in certain women the limbus system runs "hot" and the quelling of the sex drive is a brain function that can be corrected but often becomes a source of conflict between couples.

 

It can be corrected, but not if the problem is even not acknowledged. How active and "together" is your wife overall? Does she help with the housework, kids, friends etc.?

 

Seriously don't take any of this personally, she does not have the right to treat you like this, but she may not realize it herself.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

but reading this I think I'll drop that idea.....

 

Don't you get it, she just does not care.... Forget the anniversary, try 4 months of no sex.....

 

And you just bite your lip? How about you wake her up when she falls asleep, tell her to march up to bed and take the couch yourself? How about standing up for yourself and telling her enough is enough....

 

Ask her exactly what she wants from the marriage? Does she work (sorry to sound sexist, because like it or not earning a salary is a legitimate question)? What exactly does she do to make YOU happy.

 

Most women expect the male to take care of anniversary's, Xmas, Bdays, Mother's Day and Valentines Day. Even when they say otherwise, they subconsciously want to be acknowledged. Men want one thing on those days.... SEX!!!!! And usually don't get it, or the spouse is oblivious to it.

 

Do you really think she considers $5,000 in furniture a present? Get real. Women want to update things and often are indifferent and certainly don't think it as a present (or a sign of affection/love) as many don't think anything about buying new furniture every 5 years and us men think anything under 20 years is almost brand new:cool:.

 

Sorry time to stand up for yourself and tell her you are unhappy.....

[uncool]

Don't you get it, she just does not care....

And you just bite your lip? How about you wake her up when she falls asleep, tell her to march up to bed and take the couch yourself? How about standing up for yourself and telling her enough is enough....

 

Ask her exactly what she wants from the marriage? Does she work (sorry to sound sexist, because like it or not earning a salary is a legitimate question)? What exactly does she do to make YOU happy.

 

Sorry time to stand up for yourself and tell her you are unhappy.....

 

Yes she kinda works. She does medical billing for her dad from the house about 5hrs a month and brings in $2-3k.

Yes I have tried to tell her I'm unhappy but she usually leaves the room and accuses me of whining. She knows I'm unhappy. She absolutely refuses to have a conversation about our relationship.... it's taboo just like sex. She's in the total avoidance mode. We don't really fight and argue that much, everybody else loves her and constantly tells me what an awesome wife I have.

[xxoo]

It sounds like she is emotionally detached from you, and doesn't want to be close. That's why it is ok to go out to eat on a regular day, but she avoids it on an emotionally loaded day like an anniversary. She doesn't want the closeness that goes along with that kind of dinner (not only talking about sex here).

 

Yes she kinda works. She does medical billing for her dad from the house about 5hrs a month and brings in $2-3k.

Yes I have tried to tell her I'm unhappy but she usually leaves the room and accuses me of whining. She knows I'm unhappy. She absolutely refuses to have a conversation about our relationship.... it's taboo just like sex. She's in the total avoidance mode. We don't really fight and argue that much, everybody else loves her and constantly tells me what an awesome wife I have.

 

She makes 2-3k working 5 hours a month? Sounds like her dad is just giving her money. Is she used to getting what she wants without giving anything in return?

 

In answer to your general question--yes, women in love typically enjoy celebrating anniversaries.

[giotto]

This sounds like us a few months ago. I would suggest a temporary separation. You don't need to move out. Just sleep somewhere else in the house. You can still be a dad and support the family. Have fun with other women. Get rid of that unbearable weight on your shoulder. See how it goes. It might change her or it might not. If you don't try, you won't find out. Good luck!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Yes she kinda works. She does medical billing for her dad from the house about 5hrs a month and brings in $2-3k.

Yes I have tried to tell her I'm unhappy but she usually leaves the room and accuses me of whining. She knows I'm unhappy. She absolutely refuses to have a conversation about our relationship.... it's taboo just like sex. She's in the total avoidance mode. We don't really fight and argue that much, everybody else loves her and constantly tells me what an awesome wife I have.

 

My wife too is "perfect" and also never been wrong either . She is wonderful, but she also has these issues (mostly thanks to her dad) and she fights them. When she's unhappy and we fight at least I can say some things that are on my mind. But yes she also avoids things or simply just does not think it is that important.

 

I'll bet your wife will say she wants nothing, but acts otherwise. I am sure you buy her things that you consider presents and signs of affection and she thinks they just are or she didn't ask for them.

 

Right now my wife isn't happy with me (yes treats me as a child at times, because that is how she is) and I imagine yours is similar.

[whichwayisup]

She sounds depressed and lost her 'zest' for life and living. She works, comes home and heads straight to her cell to play games.

 

Does she do anything else? Other than work and be at home with you? Does she go out with friends? Have hobbies?

 

Time to give her a push and talk about this. She has to decide to change and get better, make effort into you and the marriage. Suggest counselling (for her) to figure out why she's not living life anymore.

 

I hope there isn't someone else..

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Seems sad to me (and something I certainly empathize with and know what he is feeling).

 

Women? Help please..... Or is it going to be the usual list:

 

 

1. She's depressed
   
2. You aren't assessing her feelings
   
3. You are ignoring the signs
   
4. You aren't helping enough around the house
   
5. Don't expect her to read your mind
   
6. You are not a real man (tntmm or mem11363)
   

I really am getting tired of these sad stories and seemingly dead end situations.

[TigerCub]

Hey Uncool,

 

I don't think your question is really "do most women not care about anniversaries anymore?"

 

Your R with your wife has been bad for quite some time (I remember your previous posts).

 

I'm guessing that nothing was resolved since then?

 

Did you ever discuss the letter with her?

 

I really see that you're trying so hard to connect with her and make her happy in some way - but she seems to be holding on to so much resentment for you. Also, her being so unwilling to even communicate with you certainly just adds to the hurdles.

 

If she's not willing to even talk - nothing will change.

This is no way for anyone to live.

 

I do see that you're trying but she's just so filled with anger and it seems dislike (sorry) for you.

 

I understand that you love her (its obvious by your attempts to please her and connect) and that you have children together.

But I'm sorry, I just don't see how anything will change if she wont ever as much as talk to you.

 

She's being passive aggressive and pretty cruel.

 

If she's so angry, she should at least hash out the issues from the past that are pissing her off - and maybe then you 2 can move forward, but she's not even doing that, she's making you jump through hoops and is so indifferent.

 

Maybe it is time to stop doing all that - and really look into separating.

[xxoo]

Seems sad to me (and something I certainly empathize with and know what he is feeling).

 

Women? Help please..... Or is it going to be the usual list:

 

 

1. She's depressed
   
2. You aren't assessing her feelings
   
3. You are ignoring the signs
   
4. You aren't helping enough around the house
   
5. Don't expect her to read your mind
   
6. You are not a real man (tntmm or mem11363)
   

I really am getting tired of these sad stories and seemingly dead end situations.

 

It is sad, but there aren't always good solutions. Uncool has another thread that goes deeper into the issues in the relationship. There is a whole lot more wrong than anniversary problems.

 

TDP, I've seen you advise women to leave their husbands in some cases when her needs are completely neglected. Sometimes the opposite is just as necessary.

[uncool]

Hey Uncool,

 

I don't think your question is really "do most women not care about anniversaries anymore?"

 

Your R with your wife has been bad for quite some time (I remember your previous posts).

 

I'm guessing that nothing was resolved since then?

 

Did you ever discuss the letter with her?

 

I really see that you're trying so hard to connect with her and make her happy in some way - but she seems to be holding on to so much resentment for you. Also, her being so unwilling to even communicate with you certainly just adds to the hurdles.

 

If she's not willing to even talk - nothing will change.

This is no way for anyone to live.

 

I do see that you're trying but she's just so filled with anger and it seems dislike (sorry) for you.

 

I understand that you love her (its obvious by your attempts to please her and connect) and that you have children together.

But I'm sorry, I just don't see how anything will change if she wont ever as much as talk to you.

 

She's being passive aggressive and pretty cruel.

 

If she's so angry, she should at least hash out the issues from the past that are pissing her off - and maybe then you 2 can move forward, but she's not even doing that, she's making you jump through hoops and is so indifferent.

 

Maybe it is time to stop doing all that - and really look into separating.

 

Thanks tigercub I know you and I disagreed on some things a while back but I appreciate your input here. Yes, you're right she holds some resentment that she doesn't know that I know about. I really want her to tell me about it rather than me tell her I snuck around and found out about it on my own. Things had been going a little better between us after I dumped a ton of money talking to a relationship counselor alone who advised me to go a whole 2weeks with zero physical contact.... it worked she started snuggling up and and touching me but am quickly reminded that I cant touch back and that our relationship is at arms length only. Just when things start to go good she has these "get the hell away from me" attacks even when I'm at a distance and not making any moves. She's trashed me on our anniversary even before the "resentment factor" took place. I'm not convinced her so called resentment factor has anything to do with it. I think she just hates sex period and that goes with anything that traditionally might lead to sex like an anniversary. The anniversary thing was painful for me and I had to put it up on LS to get through it.

[TigerCub]

Thanks tigercub I know you and I disagreed on some things a while back but I appreciate your input here. Yes, you're right she holds some resentment that she doesn't know that I know about. I really want her to tell me about it rather than me tell her I snuck around and found out about it on my own. Things had been going a little better between us after I dumped a ton of money talking to a relationship counselor alone who advised me to go a whole 2weeks with zero physical contact.... it worked she started snuggling up and and touching me but am quickly reminded that I cant touch back and that our relationship is at arms length only.

Its good that things worked out a little better - but I dunno, I don't think relationships should be based on 'games'.

I know that you're at the end of your rope and you're trying anything and everything, but there are obviously some very deep rooted issues behind all this.

 

Just when things start to go good she has these "get the hell away from me" attacks even when I'm at a distance and not making any moves.

That ^^ is what makes me think that she must have something in mind

and when she starts to relax a little and let go a little - it all comes back and creates that barrier.

 

She's trashed me on our anniversary even before the "resentment factor" took place. I'm not convinced her so called resentment factor has anything to do with it. I think she just hates sex period and that goes with anything that traditionally might lead to sex like an anniversary. The anniversary thing was painful for me and I had to put it up on LS to get through it.

 

So was she always like this?

If I recall correctly, you have 4 kids right? she couldn't have hated sex that much before unless she always conceived right away.

Did she always have issues with how she reacted to your romantic gestures or sexual advances?

 

There must have been a point where things changed, or else you wouldn't have married her at all if she was always like this.

 

I know that you don't want to bring up things with her and you want her to talk to you on her own, but what if she never does? are you really going to waste years of your life waiting for her to open up and waiting for something to change?

 

If you talked to her and told her that if things don't change you'd leave - do you think that would be a wake up call for her?

[uncool]

she must have something in mind

and when she starts to relax a little and let go a little - it all comes back and creates that barrier.

yes, I think you're right

 

So was she always like this? yes but not as bad as the past 2yrs

 

If I recall correctly, you have 4 kids right? she couldn't have hated sex that much before unless she always conceived right away. yes she conceives right away

 

Did she always have issues with how she reacted to your romantic gestures or sexual advances?

yes a little at first but they're out of control now

 

There must have been a point where things changed, or else you wouldn't have married her at all if she was always like this.

yes things changed right after we were married she started withdrawing little by little

 

I know that you don't want to bring up things with her and you want her to talk to you on her own, but what if she never does? are you really going to waste years of your life waiting for her to open up and waiting for something to change?

you have a point and I suppose that's why i'm on LS now weighing my options and looking for ways to solve this issue. I've finally had enough and things got so bad this year that I'm determined to do more about it now than ever before. I recently spent lots of $$ on individual counseling for her and me. She won't talk about hers and she doesnt know about mine (over the phone DB sessions)

 

If you talked to her and told her that if things don't change you'd leave - do you think that would be a wake up call for her?

I'm not sure...she gets pissed off pretty easily. I'm hoping it would wake her up if I moved out to an apartment only for the nights since those are the rejection time I have the hardest time with. I would come home every morning to work in my home office. So instead of 100% leaving my family, that way my point would get a across that I'm tired of her treatment without it being as detrimental to the kids.. sort of a "one foot out the door" approach. From what people say on LS is that I shouldn't do that unless I'm 100% ready for a big fat divorce

 

so i'm weighing my options here on this board trying to decide what to do.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Tipped off and read the backstory. Would be a nice thing to do...... How do people keep up with everything that is written on this site (especially in other sub-sections).

 

In any case the question is why are you bothering as it is obvious she can't get over the situation with your family (unless of course something changed by the end of the long thread)?

 

Sorry I'd tell her it is over unless she is willing to talk, get joint counseling and want to work on the marriage.

[giotto]

well, yes, that story with your family member must still be present in her mind. Until that's resolved, she won't get close to you. There is a big issue there, personal or relating to you/your family, and she needs to solve it before she can be close to you. I doubt she hates sex, she hates sex with you at the moment... if you can't talk to her and she won't talk to you, then just mention the letter. You need to get out of this stalemate...

[TaraMaiden]

You can only bend over backwards so far, but then you end up shoving youe whole head somewhere dark, smelly and definitely unsavoury.

Which is where I think you actually are at the moment.

You know what they say regarding the definition of insanity....

 

You've tried every trick in the book.

And it's like batting a tennis ball against a brick wall and expecting it to actually move and play ball back atcha.

Forget it.

You're running out of tennis balls, and they're in the opposite court, littering the floor, all unreturned, lying in a useless mess....

 

You get the picture.

 

You have the final card to play, and that's moving on.

 

And I really think there's no going back.

you can't fix this on your own, and you can't fix what isn't acknowledged.

[TigerCub]

so i'm weighing my options here on this board trying to decide what to do.

 

Thanks for answering all the questions.

 

I don't know her, but I really have a feeling that something from her past has surfaced and I would think its likely something related to sexual abuse (people don't always have these things surface early on).

 

I do agree, that you shouldn't tell her you're leaving as a threat (you should be able to follow through with it).

 

If you approached her and told her that you suspect something from her past is surfacing and you think its related to sexual abuse, and that you are concerned because you feel you can't comfort her or be there for her unless she talks to you. Do you think that would do anything?

 

I would stress that you tell her you're definitely not judging her, and that you are just concerned because that's the feeling you're getting and something is obviously bugging her.

 

I honestly don't know if that is the best move to make, but at this point it really seems like her actions towards you can't get worse, so try to talk to her and see how she reacts to that - if its anger, if its tears - you never know, people will surprise you when the really need to open up about stuff like that.

 

Someone close to me confessed about being molested as a child and it was a relief to them to be able to find someone to trust and talk to and just get off their chest. It doesn't matter what age they are - people who are victims of molestation, feel a crushing amount of guilt and shame, and sometimes, they get such a release to be able to finally let go of that secret to someone they trust.

 

Good luck

[uncool]

It sounds like she is emotionally detached from you, and doesn't want to be close. That's why it is ok to go out to eat on a regular day, but she avoids it on an emotionally loaded day like an anniversary. She doesn't want the closeness that goes along with that kind of dinner (not only talking about sex here).

sorry I must have skipped over this post earlier.... but

BINGO you nailed it

[GorillaTheater]

You can't pursue her; that'll just get you another large helping of rejection and even more distance. You can't stay in the status quo, because this is eating away at your soul. That leaves one option as far as I can see: adopt some distance yourself.

 

But there's a right way and wrong way to go about obtaining that distance. You want to be a happy (you know, fake it until you make it), confident guy with a life of his own who's cool with his wife joining him in that life, or not, as she chooses. You've been around a while, so you've probably seen the "180 list". Find it and follow it.

 

Most importantly, detach from outcome. The only thing you have any control over is yourself. This all may well end in divorce. Accept that as a possibility and keep reminding yourself that whatever happens, you can handle it.

[TaraMaiden]

I second every word of that.

[uncool]

adopt some distance yourself.

You've been around a while, so you've probably seen the "180 list". Find it and follow it.

 

yes, I've been distancing myself from her for a long time now and that doesn't seem to do much as she loves this. From avoiding being around her in the house to going out on the town by myself on weekends, or I'm the "single" guy going out w/my friends when they group date w/their wives, I try to get out of town for work seminars whenever one comes up, picked up a fishing hobby where I leave on fishing trips, I sleep on the couch a lot especially if I think maybe she feels "smothered" or when she sneaks up to bed while we're watching tv. I get clues pretty easily. I try to give her all the "space" I can and she loves it.

 

what's this 180-list you talk about? I did and a loveshack & google search and brings up nothing

[TaraMaiden]

If she relishes separation from you, then I think it might be time to cut your losses, and give her what she seems to want.

I would honestly put your money where your mouth is, and file for divorce, citing "Irreconcilable differences".

 

I hate to ask this question, primarily because I don't like to see someone's efforts going to waste, but - Why exactly are you still in this?

There's nothing in it for you, except a hope on a wing and a prayer.....

 

It's sad, but really, I don't see what other options are left to you.

 

Except to wipe the slate clean, and find someone who actually wants to be with you.....

[uncool]

Why exactly are you still in this?

 

First and foremost it's for my 4 kids, second of all .. I'm hoping things can get better. I never give up. I'm looking for a solution. (i found a good one the other day at married and happy daught cahm... so i'm going to try sucking up to her again through this other program I guess and see if I get any traction)

Edited March 20, 2011 by uncool

[TaraMaiden]

staying in a dysfunctional, damaged, one-sided and unhappy relationship "for the kids" is a very bad idea.

 

Kids aren't stupid.

Sure they'll hurt, but you'd be amazed how many children survive divorce.

Better two separate but contented and serene parents than one miserable, distant and truculent couple.

 

They won't either applaud you, or thank you for your sacrifice, later on, if you stick around and compromise your own future for their sake.

 

And, very much like many kids, they may well turn round and tell you "Don't know why you stuck it this long, dad, shoulda gotten out a lot sooner than this!"

 

I know this to be true. Certainly in my case, and I'll be bound, in the case of many others.

 

Besides, you leaving may actually put things into perspective for her.

If she has to juggle care for 4 children on her own for a while, she may see that she should value you in many more ways than she actually does.....