Ugh, it's happening again

[tman666]

Dude, that sucks!

 

You gotta realize though that these youngun's you're going after have their pick of the male population, and they know it. You might be able to relate to them more, but that doesn't necessarily make your chances better.

 

You also mentioned that you hadn't talked to this girl for more than 5 minutes at a time... Conversation in and of itself is not an indicator of interest, plus 5 minutes isn't a whole lot of time to establish whether or not there's chemistry between two people (unless it's very intense, which is rare).

 

Also, the "huggy" girls are a dime a dozen. They are naturally like this with everyone: "Oh HI!!! I'm so glad you're here!!! Why aren't we hanging out more often?? I missed you!!" *hugs* It's veeeeeerrrrrryyy easy to misinterpret these kinds of girls. I personally think this is what happened to you in this case.

 

As far as how to go about finding the right girl for you, I'm not real sure. :/

 

I'd definitely look into a different demographic though...

[tman666]

Or, how about you ask girls out. If you get rejected, oh well. If you go on a date and it sucks, oh well. Just keep learning. Hell, even go out with a girl that's lower than your, admittedly impossibly high standards, and figure out a girl's signals. You can't learn when you take out the hottest girl who has had more experience than you. In fact, since you like younger women, the fact that they can clearly see they are more experienced than you is a death sentence for your love life. If a girl goes for an older man it is because he is supposed to be experienced, mature, etc. Learn with a few flops on how to make the first move, how to properly ask for dates, make the kiss, etc.

 

The whole reason the OP has never had a relationship is he is too scared to ask girls out. Too scared of rejection. Too scared of women in general. You'll never learn you'll live with getting rejected until you have it done to you over and over again. The reason the OP equates massive rejection with these girls is that he spends weeks, if not months, in the shadows building up this massively impossible reality with his secret feelings. The fake-feelings build and build until when he finally meekly attempts to ask them out, they say no and the whole fake-world he just spent creating explodes. He doesn't realize that it will hurt far less if you just ask her out on day one before those fake-feelings exist. So if she does say no, it stings a bit but doesn't send you into a depressive tailspin.

 

Also, if you are going for younger girls than you, you can't complain about a lack of maturity. They simply see things differently than you. And for God's sake. DO NOT ASK THEM TO HANG OUT! My sister has a great example about this. There was a guy who did exactly what you do. Very meek, very awkward, very shy. So when he finally asked her to do something, she asked him if it was a date. When he said, "I don't know, maybe. Hang out perhaps?" She blatantly told him that when he figures out if it is a date or not, call her back. He hasn't called her back. Oh, she's interested in him and has been for a long time. But she's not going to play the hang-out game or deal with a guy who is too scared to make a move.

 

The withholding the age thing, that's stupid. What are you, one of them fake-ass housewives on those TV shows? Dude, take it from me, being older and back in school after working in the real world for a bit (albeit graduate school) has garnered me so much more ass than when I was an undergrad. Why? I'm the older guy that the 21-22 year old college girls who are tired of the drunk ass frat boys are looking for. It literally is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Use you age to your advantage! That should be your ace card!

 

This is a great effing post. Brutal, but this is as honest as it gets.

[runner]

This is a great effing post. Brutal, but this is as honest as it gets.

 

yep. excellent points.

 

OP, I think you would be better off asking someone who knows you IRL to give you suggestions on what you can change. It's tough to advise people online when you can't really see how they act, talk, etc. Plenty of guys seem okay on paper but when you get to know them IRL you realize there is something wrong with them. NOT saying you necessarily do, but IF you do, a RL friend should be better placed to give advice than us.

 

i like this too; only so much you can gather on the internet. but adding to that, i would say you need two specific types of people around you: one, a very attractive girl who's constantly getting hit on and dumps lots of guys. secondly, a guy who is really good at getting girls to go out with him; confident in himself and confident in his sexuality. and compare the feedback they're both giving you.

[somedude81]

Or, how about you ask girls out. If you get rejected, oh well. If you go on a date and it sucks, oh well. Just keep learning. Hell, even go out with a girl that's lower than your, admittedly impossibly high standards, and figure out a girl's signals. You can't learn when you take out the hottest girl who has had more experience than you.

 

Learn with a few flops on how to make the first move, how to properly ask for dates, make the kiss, etc.

Dude where do you get the idea that I have impossibly high standards? I'd love to see that post.

 

I do ask girls out and I try to learn as much as possible from each event. And learning from failures with women is very difficult because they don't tell you what you did wrong. All I can do is try to be a little different with each girl and see if I get lucky.

 

I've also been in very few situations where making a move was a possibility.

 

In fact, since you like younger women, the fact that they can clearly see they are more experienced than you is a death sentence for your love life. If a girl goes for an older man it is because he is supposed to be experienced, mature, etc.

I doubt most girls I interact with think that I'm much older than them.

 

I do agree that I should be more experienced. But I don't have any way to get it since nobody would let me date them.

The whole reason the OP has never had a relationship is he is too scared to ask girls out. Too scared of rejection. Too scared of women in general. You'll never learn you'll live with getting rejected until you have it done to you over and over again. The reason the OP equates massive rejection with these girls is that he spends weeks, if not months, in the shadows building up this massively impossible reality with his secret feelings. The fake-feelings build and build until when he finally meekly attempts to ask them out, they say no and the whole fake-world he just spent creating explodes. He doesn't realize that it will hurt far less if you just ask her out on day one before those fake-feelings exist. So if she does say no, it stings a bit but doesn't send you into a depressive tailspin.

What do you mean by fake feelings and fake world? I don't understand your concept.

 

How can you say that I'm scared of rejection and then say that I ask girls out in the same paragraph?

 

Yes getting rejected sucks but it's a fact of life. Each rejection I get reinforces the belief that there is something wrong with me.

 

I had a bad rejection in December, got rejected last month and got rejected a few days ago. Odds are I'm going to get rejected in a couple of weeks after get a chance to talk to this girl whose in the salsa class I occasionally crash. There's also a really cute girl I see on the bus a couple of times a week who will probably reject me once I have a conversation with her.

 

 

Also, if you are going for younger girls than you, you can't complain about a lack of maturity. They simply see things differently than you. And for God's sake. DO NOT ASK THEM TO HANG OUT! My sister has a great example about this. There was a guy who did exactly what you do. Very meek, very awkward, very shy. So when he finally asked her to do something, she asked him if it was a date. When he said, "I don't know, maybe. Hang out perhaps?" She blatantly told him that when he figures out if it is a date or not, call her back. He hasn't called her back. Oh, she's interested in him and has been for a long time. But she's not going to play the hang-out game or deal with a guy who is too scared to make a move.

I learned the don't hang out with girls lesson last year.

 

When I want to get to know a girl I approach her when class is over. "Hey, lets go get some lunch."

 

That's not meek or awkward. The problem that I'm having is that women can't tell the difference between a friends invitation and the fact that I'm a man asking her as a woman.

 

I've also never had a girl ask me, "Is this a date."

The withholding the age thing, that's stupid. What are you, one of them fake-ass housewives on those TV shows? Dude, take it from me, being older and back in school after working in the real world for a bit (albeit graduate school) has garnered me so much more ass than when I was an undergrad. Why? I'm the older guy that the 21-22 year old college girls who are tired of the drunk ass frat boys are looking for. It literally is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Use you age to your advantage! That should be your ace card!

I don't have the experience to use my age as an advantage. Until I figure out what the hell I'm doing, my age works against me. It's better to hide my age and try to blend in. I don't want girls instantly writing me off because I"m an awkward 29 year old.

Dude, that sucks!

 

You gotta realize though that these youngun's you're going after have their pick of the male population, and they know it. You might be able to relate to them more, but that doesn't necessarily make your chances better.

Yeah, I know that already.

 

My chances are pretty bad no matter how old the girl is. I really don't have any options.

 

You also mentioned that you hadn't talked to this girl for more than 5 minutes at a time... Conversation in and of itself is not an indicator of interest, plus 5 minutes isn't a whole lot of time to establish whether or not there's chemistry between two people (unless it's very intense, which is rare).

She just interacted with me very differently than every other girl in the class did. She was different so I assumed I might have a chance and I took the risk.

 

Also, the "huggy" girls are a dime a dozen. They are naturally like this with everyone: "Oh HI!!! I'm so glad you're here!!! Why aren't we hanging out more often?? I missed you!!" *hugs* It's veeeeeerrrrrryyy easy to misinterpret these kinds of girls. I personally think this is what happened to you in this case.

Calling them a dime a dozen is a bit of a stretch. I met one of them last year and one this year.

 

Though you are right it is easy to misinterpret them.

i like this too; only so much you can gather on the internet. but adding to that, i would say you need two specific types of people around you: one, a very attractive girl who's constantly getting hit on and dumps lots of guys. secondly, a guy who is really good at getting girls to go out with him; confident in himself and confident in his sexuality. and compare the feedback they're both giving you.

Sadly, I don't know anybody who can fill that role.

 

I could also really use a mentor as well.

[tman666]

 

She just interacted with me very differently than every other girl in the class did. She was different so I assumed I might have a chance and I took the risk.

 

 

But you did take the risk. And for that, you should feel like you at least accomplished something. While it wasn't the desired outcome, every time you go through a rejection you should take something away from it that's positive.

 

Of course, that's very hard to do, especially when you put so much stock into the whole thing. You seem like the kind of guy who cares way too much about the whole thing.

 

Did you even ask her what her other plans were when she said that she was busy? It would have been a good time to joke around with her and negate (in a joking way) her excuses. Let her know that SHE'S the one being lame (again, jokingly, not angrily). Don't be afraid to poke a little fun at her.

 

Girls don't like guys who are always walking on eggshells in fear of accidentally saying something that might offend her or cause her to be even the slightest bit flustered. They like to be challenged. There's a time to be chivalrous and polite and serious. The early stages of dating are definitely not those times.

 

Obviously, I've made a lot of assumptions in the above two paragraphs about you. If you're already doing things in a non-serious, joking, "I'm going to have a freaking great time whether or not you join me" kind of way, then disregard what I said. However, every guy I've seen who's been even remotely successful with the ladies, including myself, displays these traits on their approach.

[OliveOyl]

I'm of the opinion that being "skilled" in dating is not really the most important thing. A lot of people will probably disagree with me. I think it's really much more about finding a compatible match. And that when you do, there isn't nearly as much "effort" in the dating/relationship. That when the match is good, you don't need to be "skilled", have "pick-up artist" tactics, etc.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I think the OP should not so much focus on what he's doing wrong. I bet there's a good chance he's actually not doing ANYTHING wrong. He just hasn't met a compatible gal... YET.

 

How to go about meeting/finding a compatible person? Well that is THE question, isn't it? Maybe it's a numbers game. Maybe there's a higher power guiding the whole process. But rather than putting so much energy into each possible encounter, I'd say... be yourself. Just be who you are. If it doesn't work out, it's nothing about you. It just wasn't the right match. And that's all. Like turning over cards in the game of concentration. NEXT. Somewhere there is probably some gal who may feel similarly inexperienced and is a great match for you. Keep moving along and you will eventually meet her.

[somedude81]

But you did take the risk. And for that, you should feel like you at least accomplished something. While it wasn't the desired outcome, every time you go through a rejection you should take something away from it that's positive.

Once upon a time, I would have been satisfied knowing that I just took the risk.

 

Sadly, I can't get joy from that anymore.

 

Of course, that's very hard to do, especially when you put so much stock into the whole thing. You seem like the kind of guy who cares way too much about the whole thing.

tman666 you were one of the few active posters in my darker thread. In that thread I posted how important it is for me to succeed with women.

 

Right now, this is the most important thing in my life. It's causing me so much stress it's making me slack off in school which should my main priority.

 

Did you even ask her what her other plans were when she said that she was busy? It would have been a good time to joke around with her and negate (in a joking way) her excuses. Let her know that SHE'S the one being lame (again, jokingly, not angrily). Don't be afraid to poke a little fun at her.

No.

 

I decoded her message as a rejection and wanted to get away from her as soon as possible. I actually skipped my next class and went straight home.

 

One thing I want to say, is that I don't have any feelings for her. She was just a candidate. I knew very little about her. I'm not mad that I got rejected by Kristen, I'm mad that a girl rejected me.

 

Girls don't like guys who are always walking on eggshells in fear of accidentally saying something that might offend her or cause her to be even the slightest bit flustered. They like to be challenged. There's a time to be chivalrous and polite and serious. The early stages of dating are definitely not those times.

Believe me, I don't walk on egg shells. I have no problem joking with and teasing girls.

 

The only thing I'm not comfortable with is showing sexual interest. Mainly because I don't know how to and I'm afraid of taking it too far.

 

He just hasn't met a compatible gal... YET.

 

Somewhere there is probably some gal who may feel similarly inexperienced and is a great match for you. Keep moving along and you will eventually meet her.

Actually, I believe that I already met her.

 

We got along great and had a ton of common interests. I was in love with her for about five months last year till she had enough and couldn't keep pretending that I didn't like her. I haven't talked to her since December.

 

That is when I wish I had dating skills. To actually get a girl that I really wanted.

 

I have absolutely no idea why she didn't like me.

 

I'm worried that every girl I meet from now on won't really compare to her. It wasn't how she looked, but who she was.

[OliveOyl]

 

Actually, I believe that I already met her.

 

We got along great and had a ton of common interests. I was in love with her for about five months last year till she had enough and couldn't keep pretending that I didn't like her. I haven't talked to her since December.

 

That is when I wish I had dating skills. To actually get a girl that I really wanted.

 

I have absolutely no idea why she didn't like me.

 

I'm worried that every girl I meet from now on won't really compare to her. It wasn't how she looked, but who she was.

 

My point was, if she was a match... she WOULD like you. This woman you were in love with may have seemed very compatible, but she was still not a match. If she was - the interest would have been two-way. A real match doesn't require refined dating "skills" or pretending.

 

It's not that you find the perfect woman and then try to get them to like you. Part of them BEING the perfect woman is THAT they naturally like you -- without extra, effortful, "skilled" effort on your part!

[D-Lish]

SD, you just have to play the odds and keep asking women out until you get a yes.

 

This requires reconciling with the possibility of rejection. If you want to have a date, you have to get used to the idea that you'll get rejected sometimes.

 

I know it's easy to say "don't take it personally", but you really can't if you want to suceed in the world of dating.

 

When my self esteem was shot after a bad break up, I was terrified to start dating again, and at a loss at how to approach it because I'd been married for 10 years and I had no idea how to get back in the game. What I found helped was "practice flirting". I stuck up conversations with strangers- anyone and everyone. It was easier to do because I didn't care about them and I'd never see them again. It helped me overcome that temporary awkward phase. Practice flirt with people you aren't interested in, it takes the nervousness out of of the equation because you don't care what they think and you have no investment in them.

[somedude81]

My point was, if she was a match... she WOULD like you. This woman you were in love with may have seemed very compatible, but she was still not a match. If she was - the interest would have been two-way. A real match doesn't require refined dating "skills" or pretending.

 

It's not that you find the perfect woman and then try to get them to like you. Part of them BEING the perfect woman is THAT they naturally like you -- without extra, effortful, "skilled" effort on your part!

I'm sorry, but those words are hard to believe coming from a woman.

 

You never have to go through the process to make men like you. They automatically do.

 

It doesn't work that way for men. Men have to actively work to attract women. There is none of this, if she just likes you, then she's a match stuff. If I just waited for a girl to like me, I'd die a lonely old man.

 

D-Lish

 

I like the idea of practice flirting. That would let me start figuring out what works and what doesn't. Hopefully when I run into a girl that I could like, I'd know how to talk to her.

[AD1980]

Im in the same boat im done with women..Therye just not attracted to me and thinking they ever will be will just hurt me more as i get rejected..

 

Im done trying

[OliveOyl]

I'm sorry, but those words are hard to believe coming from a woman.

 

You never have to go through the process to make men like you. They automatically do.

 

It doesn't work that way for men. Men have to actively work to attract women. There is none of this, if she just likes you, then she's a match stuff. If I just waited for a girl to like me, I'd die a lonely old man.

I can understand if by "attract" you mean "meet" women. Yes men do often need to make an effort to put themselves in a position where they are meeting women.

 

After that point though... you really think men have to go through magic voodoo to make women like them? I don't get this. You think women naturally don't like men and it takes a lot of effort?

 

When a woman is ready to meet a man and date, she will naturally be drawn to some men. She will probably find one (or more) guy she's drawn to and try to figure out whether he likes her back. She will tell her woman friends there's "one special guy" she has a "thing" for. It's a natural progression. There is no gender difference that way.

[AD1980]

I can understand if by "attract" you mean "meet" women. Yes men do often need to make an effort to put themselves in a position where they are meeting women.

 

After that point though... you really think men have to go through magic voodoo to make women like them?

 

 

 

For the Men who cant attract women it feels that way..Women filter who they wanna pick from who approaches them and some Men try to get one damn women to accept there advances out of hundreds..

[somedude81]

I can understand if by "attract" you mean "meet" women. Yes men do often need to make an effort to put themselves in a position where they are meeting women.

I meet plenty of women each semester. There is no shortage of girls. It isn't an issue.

 

After that point though... you really think men have to go through magic voodoo to make women like them?

Yes.

 

You think women naturally don't like men and it takes a lot of effort?

Yes.

 

Actually, it's most likely girls would rather be single and not be bothered by guys. When a girl doesn't want to be single, right away she's snatched up.

When a woman is ready to meet a man and date, she will naturally be drawn to some men. She will probably find one (or more) guy she's drawn to and try to figure out whether he likes her back. She will tell her woman friends there's "one special guy" she has a "thing" for. It's a natural progression. There is no gender difference that way.

When a woman is "drawn to a guy," I'd say there is a 90% chance he will reciprocate her interest, simply because she is female. Of course the girl has to make an actual effort and let the guy know she's interested, or at least give some obvious signals.

 

When men are drawn to a woman, his odds of success are much, much lower than hers.

 

The experiences are vastly different.

 

AD1980 has a point.

 

Which do you think will have an easier time at finding a partner?

 

A man who randomly approaches 100 women or a woman who is randomly approached by 100 guys.

[OliveOyl]

I meet plenty of women each semester. There is no shortage of girls. It isn't an issue.

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

Actually, it's most likely girls would rather be single and not be bothered by guys. When a girl doesn't want to be single, right away she's snatched up.

When a woman is "drawn to a guy," I'd say there is a 90% chance he will reciprocate her interest, simply because she is female. Of course the girl has to make an actual effort and let the guy know she's interested, or at least give some obvious signals.

 

When men are drawn to a woman, his odds of success are much, much lower than hers.

 

The experiences are vastly different.

 

AD1980 has a point.

 

Which do you think will have an easier time at finding a partner?

 

A man who randomly approaches 100 women or a woman who is randomly approached by 100 guys.

 

I'm a lot older and in a different life situation than you. However... when I was in college and in my 20s... I NEVER had that experience of just being able to snap my fingers and get a guy. AND I was considered "pretty" as well as "smart." I went for long stretches of time without a boyfriend. Yes, I could have a ONS or NSA if I just wanted that. But in my 20s I had more than one person say to me, "Wow, you're so pretty and nice, why don't you have a boyfriend?" And I had no idea why. Was my self-esteem was low? I don't know. In general, though, I was pretty much in range of "normal" in terms of personality.

 

I had a very close female friend in my late 20s. She was Drop. Dead. Gorgeous. I mean she looked like Pamela Anderson from Baywatch, and I'm not kidding. I could never figure out why, but she had a ton of men problems. Even though more than anything she just wanted to find a nice guy and settle down, she suffered from notable amount of rejection -- even from guys who weren't even that good looking. To this day, she has never married.

 

Okay so that's just 2 data points, and who knows... maybe we were just very flawed women in some way back then (although, I don't think so... lol), but nonetheless my point is: It's not necessarily so easy for women. Really. It isn't. Maybe for some. But definitely not all, nor even most.

[somedude81]

When you had your long stretches of being single, where there any men you were interested in? If so, were they available?

 

I am a man who has never had a woman return my interest. That's why my opening post had such a feeling of doubt and skepticism.

 

Few things hurt more than getting my hopes up and having them dashed.

[Cee]

I meet plenty of women each semester. There is no shortage of girls. It isn't an issue.

 

Which do you think will have an easier time at finding a partner?

 

A man who randomly approaches 100 women or a woman who is randomly approached by 100 guys.

 

I think scattershot approaches to dating is a waste of time. That's like randomly sending resumes to a bunch of companies. I think it's best to target the search to where there is likely to be a good fit. I've done the date a lot of random people approach and it was a mistake.

 

Somedude, I think it would be a good time to become more choosy. Discover who you are and what you want. It sounds counterproductive to be picky, but it will help you filter out the prospects from the ones that aren't worth pursuing.

[counterman]

I feel for you, somedude. My enthusiasm for dating has diminished greatly over the past few months. I don't even ask girls out anymore. Why? Too much effort for little gain, I reckon. But, that's the price you have to pay if you want to date.

 

I like the idea of practice flirt. I use it myself, with people I meet that I am not interested to date. The idea, I believe, is to have a bit of fun and also give a bit of fun to the other person, that way they feel good around you. I say some stupid things sometimes or do something stupid, but I do learn from it. It also helps to get to know that person, with their speech and manner, in the short amount of time and you can feed of that.

 

I'll say that it is a rough journey, with many pitfalls. You will probably face more of it and I applaud you for trying. All you can do is keep trying, like the rest of us.

 

I believe that you can still have fun with a girl just being her friend. But I didn't use to always believe that. So I'll say, if you do meet a girl that you do get along with and she might seem interested, then just go with it. If she wants to be a friend, then sure, but of course you'll be checking out other girls. Personally, I don't meet enough people who I click with so so well to be rejecting the opportunity of friendship with a girl who doesn't want to date but wants to spend time with me doing the things we like.

[bac]

That's what I want. I'm trying to build relationships based on friendship and emotional connection first. But that keeps getting me friendzoned.

 

So I'm just frustrated and confused.

 

How can you build relationships based on friendship and emotional connection if you do not want the same things that young girls want?

BTW,in relationships, partners are in rapport and looking for the same things.

 

Girls want to have a guy in friendzone but you do not want to be there.

Girls do not want to get sexual right away. they want to get sexual if a guy proves that he is the one by enjoying the friendzone for a long period of time.

What do you have in common with girls? Do you like shopping, reading cosmopolitan, doing your nails, talking about different girls' stuff like their periods and tons of other girls things?

 

As for emotional connection, by reading your posts, it seems like you do not understand emotions/thoughts of girls at all. How can you have emotional connection with them?

 

 

How do you know that all women older than 25-26 do not want you? According to reality check, you were rejected too many times by every barely legal girl. By your logic, it proves that they like you and that you have a good chance with them. But, you have never been rejected (at least in such numbers) by women of your age or older. By your logic it qualifies you as being hopeless with them.

Edited March 18, 2011 by bac

[somedude81]

I think scattershot approaches to dating is a waste of time. That's like randomly sending resumes to a bunch of companies. I think it's best to target the search to where there is likely to be a good fit. I've done the date a lot of random people approach and it was a mistake.

 

Somedude, I think it would be a good time to become more choosy. Discover who you are and what you want. It sounds counterproductive to be picky, but it will help you filter out the prospects from the ones that aren't worth pursuing.

I typically ask out one girl every 2-3 months. That's pretty choosy.

 

I'm actually starting to believe that I may be too choosy and should ask out more girls more frequently. I should stop trying to find a girlfriend and just get a girl who is willing.

 

counterman, thanks for the sympathy. I do have fun being friends with girls. I actually prefer having female friends over guy friends. I just wish I could stop myself from falling for my female friends.

 

bac, from your post it seems that you are pretending that girls in college don't date. Girls don't put their boyfriends in the friendzone for a long time before they have sex or even kiss. And they don't expect the men they date to read cosmo and do their nails together.

 

How do you know that all women older than 25-26 do not want you?

 

But, you have never been rejected (at least in such numbers) by women of your age or older.

Up until I was 23ish I only went after girls my own age. I was not the Sr. guy who went after Freshmen girls, which I probably should have done

 

If I want to go after girls my own age, I'd need to go out of way to find them. I have no idea where to look to find girls 25+.

 

As for them not wanting to date me, I'm making an educated guess. I can't imagine a late 20's woman who most likely had serious long term relationships putting up with a guy who has no experience. I'm also unemployed going to school. I can't imagine any of those things being very attractive.

Edited March 18, 2011 by somedude81

[denise_xo]

As for them not wanting to date me, I'm making an educated guess. I can't imagine a late 20's woman who most likely had serious long term relationships putting up with a guy who has no experience. I'm also unemployed going to school. I can't imagine any of those things being very attractive.

 

I don't mean to negate the fact that having no experience might put some women off, but I'm not sure how strong a factor it is. Personally, I married a virgin with hardly any relationship experience who I met in my late twenties (he was older than me). More generally, I assume the women you're asking out won't necessarily know your relationship history early on in the process, and when you meet someone you click with I don't think it will matter that much. I also think pursuing further education is a positive thing to many people. Yes, lots of women look for good income etc but not all. I can honestly say it's never been a criteria for me.

 

I really hope it works out for you. Sounds like you're being very determined in this and I admire your attitude. I think Elswyth and Cee and others gave you some good advice. I don't have anything to add, but best of luck to you.

[Content]

Op i think you once said you have no male friends because you put all your energy into women which is a mistake

 

Expanding your social circle can help in many ways,you can use your buddy as a wingman,maybe his gf/wife have single friends,if hes good at getting women he can help you

 

Expand your social circle male and female

[Els]

I'm sorry, but those words are hard to believe coming from a woman.

 

You never have to go through the process to make men like you. They automatically do.

 

It doesn't work that way for men. Men have to actively work to attract women. There is none of this, if she just likes you, then she's a match stuff. If I just waited for a girl to like me, I'd die a lonely old man.

 

No, I know plenty of girls who put in lots of effort. Trust me, it takes a LOT more effort and time for a woman to even look 'average' than for a man to. Competition and standards are simply set higher for women where aesthetics are concerned. And for some it doesn't even pay off.

[somedude81]

Competition and standards are simply set higher for women where aesthetics are concerned.

Competition for who, and against who?

 

That still doesn't address the issue that it's still easier for women. Or since this is my thread, it's easier for most women, than it is for me.

 

As for the male friends thing, I'm working on it and I may be getting somewhere. I'll see how it goes.

[Els]

Competition for who, and against who?

 

That still doesn't address the issue that it's still easier for women. Or since this is my thread, it's easier for most women, than it is for me.

 

As for the male friends thing, I'm working on it and I may be getting somewhere. I'll see how it goes.

 

Competition against other women? Not that there is an explicit 'competition' per se, but simply because 'average' is a relative term. 'Average' in Yale terms would be different from 'average' in community college terms.

 

Frankly, if I were to play according to stereotypical rules, I would rather be a man. Just spend literally 10 minutes on my appearance a day, have a decent career/academic path and wit and intelligence, and be a good conversationalist around girls, voila. I have all of the above anyway... although sadly for most women, the first portion of the above would be a significant disadvantage for them according to 'dating rules', and the other portions receive a much lower weightage, as opposed to men.

 

Fortunately for me, rules are made to be broken.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Elswyth