Do women really have that many options?

[carhill]

Laughs at my jokes

Licks her lips

Licks my lips

Rubs my feet

Gazes longingly into my eyes

Holds my hand

 

Then there's the occasional 'I love you'. I won't go into the other, more explicit, 'words'.

 

That covers the married ones....

 

TBH, I don't pay attention to female signals of interest anymore. I've been mind-****ed too many times for too many years. I handle my options differently, learning from past experience.

[Mrlonelyone]

What I'm getting from this thread is that men have virtually no standards when it comes to who to approach and are whiny about women

 

That's not fair at all.

 

I have approached three women romantically in the last 12 months. Three.

 

If I have such low standards wouldn't that have been a much higher number? How about you look at the thread I started the other day where I talk about my uneasiness at approaching woman number 3 because she was an undergraduate and it's ethically questionable.

 

The other two women were... One woman I had an on and off relationship with for six years (see the second chance board) The other is a woman I knew purely as a platonic friend for months before I even looked at her romantically (an opera singer).

 

So your low standards theory is a pile of horse manure.

[Mrlonelyone]

Laughs at my jokes

Licks her lips

Licks my lips

Rubs my feet

Gazes longingly into my eyes

Holds my hand

 

Then there's the occasional 'I love you'. I won't go into the other, more explicit, 'words'.

 

That covers the married ones....

 

Carhill I know what you mean. The first time that happened to me we were both 16 and in highschool.

 

I think some of us guys get pegged as just being fling material. You know... the woman won't act interested until she's in a relationship.

 

Things like that make me glad I'm bi. If I didn't want children so bad I might just say "I love you look at you ladies but your too complicated." then stick to men. It's comforting to know I have that option.

[tigressA]

That's not fair at all.

 

I have approached three women romantically in the last 12 months. Three.

 

If I have such low standards wouldn't that have been a much higher number? How about you look at the thread I started the other day where I talk about my uneasiness at approaching woman number 3 because she was an undergraduate and it's ethically questionable.

 

The other two women were... One woman I had an on and off relationship with for six years (see the second chance board) The other is a woman I knew purely as a platonic friend for months before I even looked at her romantically (an opera singer).

 

So your low standards theory is a pile of horse manure.

 

That's YOU. I never made any specific mention of you. I said "men", just as you said "men" when writing of the numbers game in your prior posts in this thread. I love when people make generalizations and then whine about those same generalizations being used against them, saying they're an exception. Everyone's an exception in the end.

[Mrlonelyone]

Tigress your totally misunderstanding the concept of the numbers game. You seem to think it means ask out who'ever and just look at volume.

 

The numbers game means for a man he if ask out 10 women he's interested in...odds are 9 of them will be unavailable, or uninterested. That's it.

 

It says nothing of how a man selects the women or how often he ask them out.

[Mrlonelyone]

grapefruit?

[Mrlonelyone]

you eat too much grapefruit

I still don't get it. In US English por favor.

[tigressA]

I still don't get it. In US English por favor.

 

Report the troll, do not feed it.

[carhill]

Oh, another anecdote, this about one of the 'friends' from my journals, the one who 'approached' me one moonlit night at the lake while she was having 'issues' with her H. Well, that dynamic apparently turned into a divorce, and she regaled me with tales of how the nice widow down the street was 'making her lunch' for work while her husband (no divorce yet) was still living in their marital home of twenty-plus years. Her words, not mine. All this and in-patient de-tox for her (alcoholism). So, even in the midst of divorce and personal strife, even with a child (teenaged), another woman exercising her options efficiently.

 

I recall a couple LS ladies suggesting to me that I was used for a situational ego feed by this person, a suggestion I concurred with, though I did think she and my exW might have been in collusion about testing my fidelity, but, regardless, while married and after, she was and is efficiently exercising her sexual power and the options it imbues.

 

While it could be asserted that these anecdotes are 'exceptions', I could literally fill these pages with 30 years of real life anecdotes from personal experience.

 

Next up is the nurse who picked up two different men in one night at the fair and brought one of them home. Saw it with my own eyes and heard the after-play discussion between her and my exW. SOP for this mid 40's divorcee with three kids. Someday I'll write a book, but will return to lurking for now

[MarlyStar]

Carhill sounds like a good normal reasonable man who should not be alone. He asked out 20 women over two years and got two yes's (or the about 1/10 that I cited earlier)

 

He's not a player... but he had to play the numbers game to get those two dates. Do you see what I meant? A man has to ask out allot of women just to find women who are single, and available, and interested in a date with him.

 

But 12 of them were married, so the rejection was to be expected. He actually only asked out 8 eligible women and had 2 acceptances. That's a 25% success rate.

[Mrlonelyone]

But 12 of them were married, so the rejection was to be expected. He actually only asked out 8 eligible women and had 2 acceptances. That's a 25% success rate.

From the perspective of the asker the reason for the rejection is irrelevant.

 

Do you think it feels better to be rejected by a hair flipping, interested, flirting doing all the things Kamille thinks only interested women do woman because she's married is any better?

 

Or worse having to be put in the position of being the other man... wittingly or un wittingly by such a woman? Let's not forget that women in committed relationships do fool around and may well mention a husband or BF in search of a man who's game for that kind of a situation.

[Kamille]

Well the anecdotes actually bring some to mind of some of friends not having such an easy time of it as the ladies in Carhill's life.

 

One of them didn't date for years after her husband cheated on her... While she took care of the kids and tried her best to heal from the betrayal, he played the field and is today remarried and I hope faithful.

 

In fact, I had another friend who tried for years to make a marriage work with a serial cheater, who clearly had many options. When they finally broke up, she was single for a few years before she was asked out and started dating again. Meanwhile, he seemed to be having the time of his live dating around.

 

Another friend is one of those women who's constantly single, yet no one has any ideas why. She's gorgeous, she's successful, men should be knocking on her door. Instead, she'll date a few guys (is asked out a bit more frequently than me), but none of those relationships ever lead to anything serious. She's also been "cheated on".

 

Than when I think about LS, I see a lot of women who do not feel they have that many options. The guys they're interested in reject them, or go on a date with them and then ditch them.

 

I think we could all dig up experiences that cast the other gender as leading a life of leisure while the our own is struggling.

 

My opinions remains the same: women have as many options as men.

[Mrlonelyone]

Kamille

 

The first women was hurt and withdrew from the dating scene.

 

She was asked... and she said no.

 

Men who are similarly hurt do not get asked.

 

The second woman same thing. I'm sure she was asked out before she started dating again. She just said no.

 

The third woman will "date a few guys"... she gets asked out and dates a few guys but does not get a BF. That's a huge difference from not getting a date period which is what some men deal with for years inspite of asking any remotely interested and interesting woman.

[Kamille]

From the perspective of the asker the reason for the rejection is irrelevant.

 

Do you think it feels better to be rejected by a hair flipping, interested, flirting doing all the things Kamille thinks only interested women do woman because she's married is any better?

 

ahhhh. yes. I wouldn't take the advances of a married man seriously. I would assume he's just in that "I'm married so I can flirt for free" zone. Granted, much more married women enter that zone than married men. Married men, when flirting, might actually be serious. That's not much better I tell you.

[MarlyStar]

...she regaled me with tales of how the nice widow down the street was 'making her lunch' for work while her husband (no divorce yet) was still living in their marital home of twenty-plus years. Her words, not mine. All this and in-patient de-tox for her (alcoholism). So, even in the midst of divorce and personal strife, even with a child (teenaged), another woman exercising her options efficiently. ...

 

...Next up is the nurse who picked up two different men in one night at the fair and brought one of them home. Saw it with my own eyes and heard the after-play discussion between her and my exW. SOP for this mid 40's divorcee with three kids. Someday I'll write a book, but will return to lurking for now

 

I've sort of noticed that people with drinking/addiction problems have remarkable success rates for initializing relationships/contact with opposite sex. I'm not sure why; lack of inhibition? A tendency to extrovertism? Shrug. But I've been amazed by how easy and how often people with drinking problems can find others to hook up with and date (do they zero in on codependents, or bring out the best in codependents or something?). They can't maintain happy relationships but they know how to start them.

 

The nurse was exercising her option for sex. And I agree women have it easier finding sex partners than men do--if those women are lowering their standards and aren't grossed out by sex with strangers (like I would be). Very few men can go to a fair and pick on two men and bring one home; but if a woman can get over the ick factor, and many woman can't, she can have men lined up even if she isn't a ravishing beauty. All the lots of men want is availability. I wonder how the relationship/friendships with these two pickups worked out over the long run?

 

I think that some women play the numbers game too, offering sex to lots of men in order to hit on a relationship. Sleep with 60 guys, and one or two will stick around and come back, and she can nurture some sort of relationship out of it. Particularly if it's the only sex he gets. She starts asking for a dinner out beforehand or suggests a movie, he does, and after a while a default relationship develops out of habit. Whether it's a good one or not is open for debate.

[carhill]

But 12 of them were married, so the rejection was to be expected. He actually only asked out 8 eligible women and had 2 acceptances. That's a 25% success rate.

Correct, and I'm happy to report no married ladies whom I approached apparently lied about their relationship status. This is heartening

 

OTOH, I was approached by two married ladies (I knew they were married) during the same period. See above posting for signal examples of 'approach'. Nowadays, I consider such behavior to be 'friendly' and not indicative of sexual or romantic interest. Essentially, I consider every woman to be married unless and until it is proven otherwise and don't take flirtatious or sexual behaviors seriously. Too many bad memories. They can exercise their options elsewhere.

Mrlonelyone, something I've found to help is to directly ask 'are you married?' and/or 'how long have you been single?'. It can be a buzz-kill, but I'm done wasting my time and interest on married women.

[somedude81]

And what's with "the numbers game"? That just seems really derogatory to both women and men--implying that women have little to no value as individuals and are easily interchangeable, and that men are pathetically desperate, mindlessly willing to go with whoever just says "Yes" to them.

Dating for a man is a numbers game. It's like this.

 

See a girl I might like. Get to know her a little bit. Ask her out. If I'm rejected, move on to the next one.

 

I ask out about one girl every 3-4 months. What I should be doing is asking out a new girl every month, which would increase my chances of getting a yes.

 

Yes, girls are interchangeable. A woman that I have no interest in or have been rejected by, isn't special. She has no value to me. The same thing applies to men as well. No matter how much I like her, if a girl isn't interested, she's not going to care. I would have no value to her.

 

Men have to keep trying till we find one that says yes. That's the game.

How's this for an experiment: how long does it take you before you actually score a date?

 

When I was single, I would usually get asked out every 1-2 months. I'm willing to bet our numbers pretty much compare. Ergo, we have the same amount of success.

When you were single, how flirty were you? Did you try to make yourself look attractive? How receptive were you to male attention? Did you give men hints that you were attractive.

 

By doing one or more of those things, an average woman can get more dates than she knows what to with.

 

BTW, who do you think muli-dates more, men or women?

 

I do not consider a guy I am not interested in as an "option". Do you not get that?

It doesn't matter, they are still options. You have the choice to accept or reject.

What about less attractive women? Do you think they have more options than less attractive men?

 

Or, put another way: tell us- when you say women have more options- are you thinking about all women, or just the women you think are hot?

I've seen overweight women get lots of male attention. There will always be men desperate enough.

 

Less attractive men, have zero options period. Unless they have a lot of money.

If I want a relationship, I'm going to have fewer options than a man.

Not at all. Whomever goes on the most dates has the most chances for a relationship.

 

Exactly. I get the vibe that he's approached 20 other women before me, and that if I say "No thanks" he'll approach 20 more women after me.

Of course he would.

 

What should he do, give up?

[Kamille]

Kamille

 

The first women was hurt and withdrew from the dating scene.

 

She was asked... and she said no.

 

No she didn't. In fact, there were guys she found interesting, but none asked her out.

 

Please, please understand that we don't have it easier!

 

 

 

The second woman same thing. I'm sure she was asked out before she started dating again. She just said no.

 

Again, no. She would have been a lot more open to dating guys, but for some reason, none approached her.

 

The third woman will "date a few guys"... she gets asked out and dates a few guys but does not get a BF. That's a huge difference from not getting a date period which is what some men deal with for years inspite of asking any remotely interested and interesting woman.

 

Yes, but while she's dating these guys, these guys are multi-dating. They have more options than she does.

 

Also, some women do go years without getting asked out. It isn't the sole territory of men. that's my whole point. I'm disputing the assertion that all women have it easy. No we don't.

[Mrlonelyone]

You are on point man. It is really interesting how some women throw in arbitrary information when what you pointed out is as easy as reading the dewey decimal system.

 

Don't argue with it, try to understand it.

 

I ask a lot of women out...women I am attracted to. Why? Successful outcome is in numbers.

 

But, but, but why...why...why...you must sleep with anyone...but...nooOOoooo...it can't be that hard.

 

You can borrow my Y chromosome for a day to get a better perspective if it will help.

Oh but I can.

 

Do you ladies know how I know a lady has it easier? I know because I lived as a woman for four years. I looked good as a woman (and handsome as a man... aren't I lucky). I used to get approached for sex and dates all the time.... all the time.

 

I know most of those men were scumbags. I know not because of their "Aura" ...but because they would whip out their jimmy and show it to me. (I wonder if that ever works?)

 

:|

 

I know first hand that it's different for women. Even gay and bisexual men don't get asked out as often by other men of their persuasion outside of certain venues.

 

I have the experience of being able to directly compare both experiences of men and women. Can anyone here say the same?

[Mrlonelyone]

Yes. I have a Y chromosome.... a high testosterone level for a man... and yet the limb proportions of a super model...and upper body strength of a martial artist.

 

It takes that to be successfully bisexual and attract men and women at the same time.

 

@Carhill. I'll have to start doing just that. It seems any woman who's within five years of my age has a good chance of being married or in a relationship. Most of them who are in a relationship will not even let it drop that they are until I express interest...or they loose interest.

 

It makes me think that 50% of unmarried women in a relationship are only as committed as they are unable to find someone they feel is "better".

[tigressA]

Dating for a man is a numbers game. It's like this.

 

See a girl I might like. Get to know her a little bit. Ask her out. If I'm rejected, move on to the next one.

 

I ask out about one girl every 3-4 months. What I should be doing is asking out a new girl every month, which would increase my chances of getting a yes.

 

Yes, girls are interchangeable. A woman that I have no interest in or have been rejected by, isn't special. She has no value to me. The same thing applies to men as well. No matter how much I like her, if a girl isn't interested, she's not going to care. I would have no value to her.

 

Men have to keep trying till we find one that says yes. That's the game.

 

I agree in that you have to find someone who's interested. But the point Kamille and I have made in this thread is that some men are merely interested in scoring in the first place--NOT seeing if a woman is actually compatible with them. Those men don't really put value on us as individuals; they merely are focused on hearing "Yes" from us. Having a date for the sake of having a date, having a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend.

 

It's like being treated as a number instead of a person. Get it?

[Mrlonelyone]

Tigress how can a man know a woman is compatible without getting a date?

 

He has to ask out a number of women before he can get a date.....because most women will not be interested or available.

 

If I ask out 10 women that I find interesting enough to date....odds are 9 will not be available or interested. Only one will be interested... to my dismay that does not mean that they are always available.

[tigressA]

Tigress how can a man know a woman is compatible without getting a date?

 

He has to ask out a number of women before he can get a date.....because most women will not be interested or available.

 

If I ask out 10 women that I find interesting enough to date....odds are 9 will not be available or interested. Only one will be interested... to my dismay that does not mean that they are always available.

 

Okay, compatible was the wrong word. You actually nailed it when describing finding someone "interesting enough" to date. There are some men who will only say, "Oh, she's cute" and want to score a date with her. They'll have a conversation, but it will be like he's not even paying attention, and it will be like that on subsequent dates, if there are any. He's just so desperate for a date that really, all the woman has to be is attractive enough and agreeable. Any incompatibilities in the initial conversation and in subsequent encounters are ignored just for the sake of getting a date/into a relationship.

 

This is what I mean. I have met a good number of men who are otherwise normal who act this way. It's sad.

[Kamille]

Oh but I can.

 

Do you ladies know how I know a lady has it easier? I know because I lived as a woman for four years. I looked good as a woman (and handsome as a man... aren't I lucky). I used to get approached for sex and dates all the time.... all the time.

 

I know most of those men were scumbags. I know not because of their "Aura" ...but because they would whip out their jimmy and show it to me. (I wonder if that ever works?)

 

:|

 

I know first hand that it's different for women. Even gay and bisexual men don't get asked out as often by other men of their persuasion outside of certain venues.

 

I have the experience of being able to directly compare both experiences of men and women. Can anyone here say the same?

 

Were you more of a transvestite or did you go through sexual reassignment? If so, any chance the networks to which you belonged informed how often you got approached? If a transvestite, did these men know you were a transvestite, or did they believe you were a woman?

 

I lived in a neighborhood which was transvestite headquarters, and yes, I got hit on a lot when I lived in that neighborhood... It always amazed me because the tranvestites were drop dead gorgeous women, dressed in Dior. The funny thing was that the men who approached me (cold approached) would back off once they realized I was all women.

[somedude81]

I agree in that you have to find someone who's interested. But the point Kamille and I have made in this thread is that some men are merely interested in scoring in the first place--NOT seeing if a woman is actually compatible with them. Those men don't really put value on us as individuals; they merely are focused on hearing "Yes" from us. Having a date for the sake of having a date, having a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend.

 

It's like being treated as a number instead of a person. Get it?

What I am finding out, is that I see compatibility more often than women do.

 

The last ten girls I got to know and felt compatible with, didn't feel the same way about me at all. And I'm betting that each woman had several guys in addition to me, feel they were compatible with her as well. It's up to her to reject or accept, that is having options.

 

As for feeling like a number, that's more about the environment. A man in a bar or a club may go from girl to girl, no girl is more valuable than the last. He just wants a screw. Some men do that outside as well. Their level of success varies.