Do women really have that many options?

[MarlyStar]

Do you ladies know how I know a lady has it easier? I know because I lived as a woman for four years. I looked good as a woman (and handsome as a man... aren't I lucky). I used to get approached for sex and dates all the time.... all the time.

 

I know most of those men were scumbags. I know not because of their "Aura" ...but because they would whip out their jimmy and show it to me. (I wonder if that ever works?)

 

Most women want relationships. How many quality relationships did you get while living as a women?

 

Sex is easy to get for a woman, I won't deny it.

 

But women don't count the ability of having sex with a scumbag as being an option. They have lots of options for what they don't want; and not so many options for what they do want. How can it really be an option if you don't want it?

 

Men can have a relationship if they want one, but they don't count the ability of having a relationship with someone beneath their standards as an option. It's the same thing as women lowering their standards to have sex with a scumbag. Women don't want sex badly enough to have it with creepy desperate scumbags. Men don't want relationships badly enough to have it with homely overweight socially awkward desperate women.

 

If they lower their standards women have all the options in the world when it comes to sex, but fewer options when it comes to relationships.

 

If they lower their standards men have all the options in the world when it comes to relationships, but fewer options when it comes to sex.

 

Except for the lucky few young hot women and handsome rich men, (who even when they get what they want, don't seem to be happy with it), both men and women feel cheated. All through this thread I've felt like we are comparing apples and oranges. Sex and relationships. Men and women.

 

Neither of us have it better. And no matter what gender you are, if you have social stigmas, you have it worse than either sex.

[Kamille]

Tigress how can a man know a woman is compatible without getting a date?

 

 

Ok, I need clarifications.

 

When you ask a woman out, what's a typical scenario? Where do you meet her? How do you approach her? How long does it take before you ask her out? What's the vibe you two are establishing before any asking out happens? What prompts you to ask her out?

 

To me, I usually feel an element of compatibility before I will agree to a date. It can be as simple as a vibe ( he makes me laugh, he's easy to talk with) or something more elaborate, like we keep running into each other and I always enjoy talking to him. (Both scenarios taken from real life).

 

See, to me, the opposite doesn't make sense. Why would you randomly ask someone out, without having any idea if you'll have a good time spending a few hours together?

[tigressA]

As for feeling like a number, that's more about the environment. A man in a bar or a club may go from girl to girl, no girl is more valuable than the last. He just wants a screw. Some men do that outside as well. Their level of success varies.

 

True, feeling like a number does seem to be more about the environment. One of the last times I was at a club, just to go dancing with my friends, a guy approached me in the bar. We talked for a bit, then when I went back out on the floor he came from out of nowhere and started grinding on me. I just about slapped him. He skulked away and I spotted him trying his game on 5 other girls through the night. I bet they all had as hearty a laugh at him as I did.

 

I think I'm starting to understand something here, too. It seems like a lot of women want to know that there's a reasonable amount of compatibility before agreeing to go on a date with a man who asks them, whereas a lot of men only pay any real attention to compatibility with a woman after having scored a date with her.

[MarlyStar]

If I ask out 10 women that I find interesting enough to date....odds are 9 will not be available or interested. Only one will be interested... to my dismay that does not mean that they are always available.

 

Well, I sent emails to 29 men I thought were interesting enough to interact with, and of those I chose, only 3 responded. About the same odds as you. And none continued the contact. So it's like out of 29 I got 3 first dates and no second date.

 

I'm okay looking too, probably the top 10 percent of my peers. Even if I'm not your type, you're not going to be embarassed to be seen with me.

 

But....shrug.... it is what it is, and it's like that for both men and women.

[carhill]

It seems like a lot of women want to know that there's a reasonable amount of compatibility before agreeing to go on a date with a man who asks them, whereas a lot of men only pay any real attention to compatibility with a woman after having scored a date with her.

 

This, if generally reflective of reality, would explain the majority of my dateless 20's and 30's, as I went about dating completely 'wrong', getting to know women and determining compatibility *before* asking them out. I ended up with a lot of female 'friends' and wasted a lot of time on unproductive romantic situations. Essentially, I sunk my options due to incompetence. It was only when I began to care less about the woman's compatibility and just asked anyone out that I began to see success. The courtship style I was socialized into was completely wrong for my generation.

 

Topically, for balance, I will scour my anecdotes to support a viewpoint opposite to that proffered prior, that being women I've known markedly finding fewer options than men. This runs counter to my theory that women are single for ten seconds or less, so I think it will be an interesting journey

[fishtaco]

See, to me, the opposite doesn't make sense. Why would you randomly ask someone out, without having any idea if you'll have a good time spending a few hours together?

 

Because she has a nice ass.

 

I've done that before. Danced with a girl for two songs, so maybe 10 minutes. Sat back down with my buddies. One of them said... damn, she's got a nice ass. I said, oh yeah she does. Then we watched her shake her ass on the dance floor with some other dude. When she finished dancing and walked by to go back to her table, I grabbed her around the waist, and asked her for her name. And that was how that relationship started.

 

Anyway, back to the OT. This is how I see it. Opportunity-wise, men and women should be similar. But women have more options to capitalize on those opportunities. This is why I say this.

 

In order for an opportunity to materialize into a real date you have to make your intentions known. If the man doesn't ask the woman, and the woman never does anything either, then nothing will happen.

 

To make your intentions known, there are two ways for it to happen:

 

1) You ask the other person

2) The other person asks you

 

Women are accustomed to #2. But there's nothing to stop them from doing #1. Men do #1, and yes, #2 could happen. But it's very rare, and it's out of their control.

 

So for women that are not getting enough #2, go do #1. Immediately you'll increase your chances.

 

For men that are doing #1, but would like to increase their chances via #2? Sorry, not within your control.

 

I'd like to think I'm just an average guy, and not some ugly monstrosity. I get asked out by women oh... once every five years or so. #2 is simply not a viable option for me.

 

So if women start to ask men out as often as men ask women out, then I'll say yes, they have the same options.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Kamille]

 

I think I'm starting to understand something here, too. It seems like a lot of women want to know that there's a reasonable amount of compatibility before agreeing to go on a date with a man who asks them, whereas a lot of men only pay any real attention to compatibility with a woman after having scored a date with her.

 

Hmmm. Interesting point. I also think the point you and Marly made about the difference between looking for a date or looking to hook up plays into this. I pay more attention to compatibility, because I'm basically never just looking to get laid. Maybe this makes me pickier, but the way I see it, it's far from meaning I have more options. It actually means I have less (as you've experienced).

 

And yes, if I get a vibe that a guy is only looking to get laid, I will shoot him down. This happens mostly in bars, and I never really considered these guys options, because, as Jane said, they aren't a viable option to me: I'm not looking to get laid. I just find it hard to take drunken guys seriously. Plus, to them, I'm highly replaceable. They're not interested in me, they're interested in scoring. They're not an option.

 

Let it be known I have dated guys I've met in bars, but their approaches were completely different. They showed interest in getting to know me.

 

Let's put it this way: when it comes to detecting a guy's intentions, we ladies have honed our skills. Guys can't just wing it and hope for the best. But, IME, a lot of bar approaches are gauche. I once had a guy hit on me and then fall down drunk. Yeah... That's not an option.

 

 

Well, I sent emails to 29 men I thought were interesting enough to interact with, and of those I chose, only 3 responded. About the same odds as you. And none continued the contact. So it's like out of 29 I got 3 first dates and no second date.

 

I'm okay looking too, probably the top 10 percent of my peers. Even if I'm not your type, you're not going to be embarassed to be seen with me.

 

But....shrug.... it is what it is, and it's like that for both men and women.

 

I think another thing that happens is that while guys discuss rejection, we women hardly ever talk about it. It's kind of a taboo subject for women. But we do experience it. I've experienced it, in fact all of my friends have experienced it.

[Kamille]

So if women start to ask men out as often as men ask women out, then I'll say yes, they have the same options.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

I've asked guys out. I asked 5 guys out. 2 said no, 3 said yes. Of the three that said yes, one never asked me out on a second date. I took it to mean he wasn't interested (we are good friend now though). So, in effect, 3 weren't interested and 2 were interested enough at least to date me for awhile (both relationships ended up being disasters - but that's another topic).

 

The same thing happens to women as does to men. You ask a guy out, he's surprised and flattered and then realizes he never really thought of you in that way and has to decide then in there if he's into giving it a chance.

 

We don't have it easier.

[somedude81]

Men can have a relationship if they want one, but they don't count the ability of having a relationship with someone beneath their standards as an option.

That's bull sh*t.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the only reason a single woman is single, is because she wants to be. It really is all about her standards and what she is willing to accept.

 

And there are men who have been single for years simply because every woman they've been interested in has rejected him. I know this because I'm one of them.

[Kamille]

That's bull sh*t.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the only reason a single woman is single, is because she wants to be. It really is all about her standards and what she is willing to accept.

 

And there are men who have been single for years simply because every woman they've been interested in has rejected him. I know this because I'm one of them.

 

Is it possible your standards are too high? Is this about what you're willing to accept?

[Duckduckgoose]

Because she has a nice ass.

 

I've done that before. Danced with a girl for two songs, so maybe 10 minutes. Sat back down with my buddies. One of them said... damn, she's got a nice ass. I said, oh yeah she does. Then we watched her shake her ass on the dance floor with some other dude. When she finished dancing and walked by to go back to her table, I grabbed her around the waist, and asked her for her name. And that was how that relationship started.

 

Anyway, back to the OT. This is how I see it. Opportunity-wise, men and women should be similar. But women have more options to capitalize on those opportunities. This is why I say this.

 

In order for an opportunity to materialize into a real date you have to make your intentions known. If the man doesn't ask the woman, and the woman never does anything either, then nothing will happen.

 

To make your intentions known, there are two ways for it to happen:

 

1) You ask the other person

2) The other person asks you

 

Women are accustomed to #2. But there's nothing to stop them from doing #1. Men do #1, and yes, #2 could happen. But it's very rare, and it's out of their control.

 

So for women that are not getting enough #2, go do #1. Immediately you'll increase your chances.

 

For men that are doing #1, but would like to increase their chances via #2? Sorry, not within your control.

 

I'd like to think I'm just an average guy, and not some ugly monstrosity. I get asked out by women oh... once every five years or so. #2 is simply not a viable option for me.

 

So if women start to ask men out as often as men ask women out, then I'll say yes, they have the same options.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Fishtaco you are sexy and I would date you

 

Well if you were close to my age which is 27

[carhill]

OK, tomorrow I will ask out a lady whom I've never met, have no idea what she looks like and only will do it because she's the sister of one of my friend's wives and she suggested it. One more anecdote

[fishtaco]

The same thing happens to women as does to men. You ask a guy out, he's surprised and flattered and then realizes he never really thought of you in that way and has to decide then in there if he's into giving it a chance.

 

We don't have it easier.

 

My point this, I think I need to clarify. Me asking out women, I have the same experience as you. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. My theory is that "opportunity" is the same for men and women, it's how you go about making it happen.

 

So when you do the asking, men are about as successful as women. So for being the initiator, we cancel out. We're the same. So we score even for method #1.

 

Method #2, sitting around being pretty and expect to be asked out. Women would kick the crap out of men into next Tuesday in this category.

 

So overall, I say woman are the winner. But, most of the time, they're not, because women think it's not okay to ask men out. Well, then that's a self inflicted limitation.

 

Me, I'd like #2 to happen. I want it to happen all the time. I want women like Duckduckgoose, everywhere. At my gym, at the restaurant, at the supermarket. But unfortunately it only happens to me on LS.

 

Fishtaco you are sexy and I would date you

 

Well if you were close to my age which is 27

 

I'm in my late 30's, I have a lot of wealth and a weak heart. I'm looking for someone to marry me and wish I die sooner every night, and when I do kick the bucket, receive my vast inheritance of my awesome Toyota truck, and my bad ass electric guitar.

[GoodOnPaper]

whereas a lot of men only pay any real attention to compatibility with a woman after having scored a date with her.

 

Of course -- doesn't make sense any other way. By securing the date, the guy declares that there is some attraction on his part -- only "nice guys" (like myself) try to establish relationship compatibility in platonic situations that can only lead to the friendzone . . .

[Mrlonelyone]

Were you more of a transvestite or did you go through sexual reassignment? If so, any chance the networks to which you belonged informed how often you got approached? If a transvestite, did these men know you were a transvestite, or did they believe you were a woman?

 

I did not have the surgery. But I did pass as a female. For example back when I went to get my name changed on my DL back about 3.5 years ago... the clerk asked me if I had my marriage license showing the name change.

 

When I would go to the doctor....they would ask me if I had ever been pregnant.

 

In fact here's a picture.

 

My friend on the extreme left had just passed her MS thesis defense. She wrote me a letter just a week ago about how she thought of me as her "sister in science". The one in the middle is also a good friend. They both live in different cities in CA now.

 

I experienced what women deal with directly. It's different just trust me I know. If God/nature has people like me exist it's just so we can have conversations like this and get the sexes to understand eachother. I am a two-spirit, a mnetokwe...it's a native american thing.

 

In case anyone's wondering.

 

I still have it

It never stopped working even with years of hormones.

I still have sperm as seen under a microscope by my own eyes.

My testosterone levels are now at the high end of normal.

 

All in all men who have taken anabolic androgenic steroids have done more damage to their gonads. I have a more functional unit than many of the roided out body builder types.

 

Now I look like this.

 

Now unless you can produce a FTM transman who would contradict me (none would) I think my word should be taken worth a very heavy grain of salt.

 

Oh and JIC anyone's wondering ... All three of the women I have asked out knew this about me and they still entertained the possibility. Women really do have a more bicurious streak than men by far.

 

I have decided to live by the example of Davie Bowie. I think his way of life is closer to the real me.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Mrlonelyone

[carhill]

Bravo. That's some options. Thanks for the pix

[Mrlonelyone]

Bravo. That's some options. Thanks for the pix

 

Thanks. I have had the privilege of looking pretty decent either way.

 

I am the person that proves the assertion that women have more options.

 

The same brain. Essentially the same personality. The same sexual preferences.

 

Simply by filling the female role I was asked out at least twice a week. Men and women would chat me up allot more looking for romance.

 

Yet I had more options. I am just as approachable and all of that...even the same set of people around me for the most part.

 

Now if a non-op transsexual like I was could find a date what genetic woman could not?

[threebyfate]

Sorry Kamille but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread, just skimmed through a few responses.

 

From what I've read on LS from the male posters, it appears that women can exceed their "league" (as defined by the male posters), having an incredibly easier time dating.

 

Now, if that were the case, the results would reflect millions of couples of great looking men with average looking women, right? Oh wait, hold it, that's not what I've seen. Most often couples are fairly equal in looks or the woman is better or even much better looking.

 

How is it that the results don't hold true to the silly theories running rampant on the Internet?

[carhill]

I recall asking out a transsexual once. She was pretty hot. Took some nice pictures of her at the zoo. Still have them. No dice. She didn't find me attractive. One more anecdote

 

Of my/our circle of friends, I'd say the male/female better/worse dynamic runs nearly 50%. This means my friends and their spouses and my exW's friends and their spouses, along with relevant children and grandchildren couples, whether LTR or married. An anomalous anecdote?

Edited March 11, 2011 by carhill

[Mrlonelyone]

Carhill

 

One theory of transsexualism holds that a large part if not all of the reason some change sex and have SRS is because as a female they have more sexual and social options.

 

For me all things being equal I might as well keep my gonads and retain the possibility of having biological children. That was the tie breaker. I just cannot see my life without a child that's my own flesh and blood and in my life to raise.

[threebyfate]

Of my/our circle of friends, I'd say the male/female better/worse dynamic runs nearly 50%. This means my friends and their spouses and my exW's friends and their spouses, along with relevant children and grandchildren couples, whether LTR or married. An anomalous anecdote?

So, do you find the same kind of statistic when you go to a substantial sized mall or airport and people watch?

[carhill]

So, do you find the same kind of statistic when you go to a substantial sized mall or airport and people watch?

Since I'd have to allow for plenty of leeway regarding male attractiveness as I don't date men, IME, it's really close. TBH, to my eye, a lot of couples I see at first glance are similar in attractiveness. It's only couples whom I know well and have substantial close-up interaction with that I can offer any definitive opinion on. For example, my best friend's daughter, the one who approached me on a couple of occasions, has a strikingly beautiful husband, and their sons mirror their father. By comparison, I'm Quasimodo. She's attractive, but not 'wow' like her H, who's also in the medical profession. That's a typical example of what I mean.

[Imajerk17]

This is funny because we single guys say the same something likewise.

 

--We guys go on dates with you that seem to go well, but there is no second date due to you not feeling chemistry (whatever that means). So what exactly were you expecting to have happen? Life isn't a romantic comedy you know, sorry. A better question to ask yourself might be whether you had fun. And whether the guy seems to have his act together. (This one especially will save you a lot of time you might have wasted on the wrong guys.)

 

--We approach you, and 9 times out of 10, the answer is no. You can't help it if you're not feeling it, but on the other hand, I'm not sure if you ladies get how tough it can be to walk up to a complete stranger and flirt with her. Lots of great guys just aren't good at it. You might like us, if you were to overlook our momentary toungue-tiedness and meet us for coffee anyway.

 

--Relating to the above, we might approach you more if you at least look more friendly. You often look like you don't want to be bothered so eh, we don't.

 

--What? You weren't blessed with looks? It's amazing how good you can look if you work out and dress nicely.

 

--I know I know, you won't approach yourself. You feel that it's your birthright as a female that you just shouldn't have to risk rejection as we men do. We get it. You'd be amazed though, how far you can get just be asking us about the squash in the produce section or for lifting advice in the gym. Best case we'll have a great conversation and we'll ask for your number. Worst case you'll learn a new recipe or a new exercise routine.

 

--Online dating: Why do so many of you put pictures of you getting palsy-walsy with other dudes? If that guy you have your arm around is one of your guy 'friends', we're likely to stay away. Too much drama if he's around you know? If it's your ex, we don't want to hear about him on the first date, nevermind before we even interact with you. Next.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Imajerk17

[Mrlonelyone]

Ok, I need clarifications.

 

When you ask a woman out, what's a typical scenario? Where do you meet her? How do you approach her? How long does it take before you ask her out? What's the vibe you two are establishing before any asking out happens? What prompts you to ask her out?

 

The first woman I approached in a romantic way in the last 12 months was a woman I knew since 1999. When I first approached her back when, we had been in the same chemistry class for a few weeks. I tried to get our on and off relationship back on. Not this time. However considering that many years of history it's safe to say this too shall pass and we will still be friends in the long run.

 

The second woman I approached this year I actually met in a pole dancing class. Met her as a female. When I decided to change to male she was totally ok with me. (Which is why I was so surprised that this one suddenly said she had a boyfriend.... she never ever mentioned a SO in any discussion any of us had... and we as a class and just the two of us did a good amount of talking about our lives.) I think we are still at least friends and I'm ok with that. She's an interesting person who I would like to know. TBH this one has some quirks which are ... a bit uhm... pause giving. The kinds of things that make the logical left brain think I dodged a bullet... while the emotional right brain would still like her as a possible SO.

 

The third was an undergraduate who caught my eye at the student center yesterday. It was a cold approach and I knew nothing of her. We talked for about five minutes before I asked her for her number. I assume she knows my situations since I am a well known person there.

 

 

To me, I usually feel an element of compatibility before I will agree to a date. It can be as simple as a vibe ( he makes me laugh, he's easy to talk with) or something more elaborate, like we keep running into each other and I always enjoy talking to him. (Both scenarios taken from real life).

 

See, to me, the opposite doesn't make sense. Why would you randomly ask someone out, without having any idea if you'll have a good time spending a few hours together?

 

The reason that men ask out women they have known for all of five minutes is this. The women we are around on a regular basis are 90% of the time, uninterested, uninteresting, or unavailable for dating or a relationship.

 

So we have to widen our net out to women who seem decent, clean, and non insane who we come across in our daily travels. Hence being able to cold approach is a vital skill for a man who wants to date a woman.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Mrlonelyone

[somedude81]

Is it possible your standards are too high? Is this about what you're willing to accept?

I wish that were the case.

 

Me only requirements are;

 

Be cute and don't weigh more than I do. (About 80% of girls on my campus fit this description.)

 

Be fun, easy to interact with.

 

The second one is actually the least common. If a girl doesn't smile when I talk to her and if she doesn't seem to enjoy my company, I'm not going to ask her out.

 

Since my standards are pretty lax, it's definitely the women that have theirs so high.